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Old 2008-07-26, 09:54   Link #2961
Ruvixur
Lelouch Vi Britannia FTW
 
 
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Originally Posted by Vallen Chaos Valiant View Post
Frankly, Zero had never explained how he gets some things done. The fact that he really had magical powers was probably not that surprising for those who view him as a Magician.

Although my point remained; why rebel when the leader is helping you free Japan?

All this about Geass and Britannian Princess doesn't mean anything; what bugs me is that it appears the original BK members don't appear to care about freeing Japan anymore. Perhaps they never really cared. After all, the original terrorist group never planned to win anything, they did what they did because that's all they think they can do.

It is all talk; those who reject Lulu deserve what's coming to them. They are better off leaving, so the big boys who actually care about winning the war can get on with their jobs.


False Argument; Enemies of Britannia are enemies because they don't want to be enslaved or killed. That's self-defense and not bloodthirsty.
I agree about bolded part.
Enemies of Britannia are then self-defensing, not bloodthirsty? Why is that? They don't give Britannia resources, when it's obvious, that Britannia needs it to survive how it is. They even took Britannia homeland, those big meanies.
There must be war, or we are doomed. Most of progress comes from war.
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Old 2008-07-26, 09:57   Link #2962
Orga777
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Originally Posted by Vallen Chaos Valiant View Post
Nothing to wow about.
Sure there is something to wow about. Your Lelouch worshiping is mind boggling.

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Lulu is serious about winning the war. And so are China and India. The former terrorist group can get in on the act or get out, but they can't pretend to be on the moral high ground.
No. Lelouch is serious about getting back at his family because of his personal grudge. He may be serious about hating Britannia, but he they don't know if he is serious about helping Japan.

Also, I will find it hard that the CF and India will continue to follow Zero once they learn that themselves. They will just go back to their own thing because they may think Lelouch just wants to take the crown for himself.
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Old 2008-07-26, 10:04   Link #2963
Vallen Chaos Valiant
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Originally Posted by Orga777 View Post
Sure there is something to wow about. Your Lelouch worshiping is mind boggling.



No. Lelouch is serious about getting back at his family because of his personal grudge. He may be serious about hating Britannia, but he they don't know if he is serious about helping Japan.

Also, I will find it hard that the CF and India will continue to follow Zero once they learn that themselves. They will just go back to their own thing because they may think Lelouch just wants to take the crown for himself.
Helping Japan is the BK's job after Britannia goes down. That does not mean Lulu can't have his own agenda. China and India aren't really interested in helping Japan, so why are the BK accepting their help?

By your own argument, they should reject Laksharta's Knightmares because India isn't serious about helping Japan, and they can't trust that India mightn't have put bombs in the mecha or something.
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Old 2008-07-26, 10:06   Link #2964
Orga777
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Originally Posted by Vallen Chaos Valiant View Post
Helping Japan is the BK's job after Britannia goes down. That does not mean Lulu can't have his own agenda. China and India aren't really interested in helping Japan, so why are the BK accepting their help?
Except they can't trust a prince who may be out to just seize power. THAT is what can force them away.
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Old 2008-07-26, 10:12   Link #2965
demon_god04
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Originally Posted by Orga777 View Post
Except they can't trust a prince who may be out to just seize power. THAT is what can force them away.
Ougi himself has noted that Zero's hatred for Britannia is real, and Kirihara himself assured them that Zero was an enemy of Britannia and accepts why he keeps his identity a secret.
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Old 2008-07-26, 10:12   Link #2966
Vallen Chaos Valiant
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Originally Posted by Orga777 View Post
Except they can't trust a prince who may be out to just seize power. THAT is what can force them away.
India and China are even more likely to seize power. So why accept their help and reject Lulu's?
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Old 2008-07-26, 10:16   Link #2967
Orga777
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Originally Posted by demon_god04 View Post
Ougi himself has noted that Zero's hatred for Britannia is real, and Kirihara himself assured them that Zero was an enemy of Britannia and accepts why he keeps his identity a secret.
The hatred may be real, but do they know for sure that it is all of Britannia or just his father that caused his hatred? If they think he is only doing this to gain control of Britannia and they feel used by him, they will split.

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India and China are even more likely to seize power. So why accept their help and reject Lulu's?
Because they have no choice. Allies are important right now. If they don't think their leader is good for their cause though, they can control whether he is part of them any longer.
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Old 2008-07-26, 10:24   Link #2968
Vallen Chaos Valiant
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Originally Posted by Orga777 View Post
Because they have no choice. Allies are important right now. If they don't think their leader is good for their cause though, they can control whether he is part of them any longer.
That assumes there is a valid replacement, which there are none. Thus keeping Lulu is as vital as keeping India and China.

And you are mistaken; Lulu was the one who keep them around, not the other way around. They had no say in who to lead, because their leadership pool sucked.

"You are fired" said the rebels.

"No," replied Zero. "You are all fired. I will be off to China and fight Britannia from there. You have fun blowing up civilians."
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Old 2008-07-26, 10:29   Link #2969
Orga777
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Originally Posted by Vallen Chaos Valiant View Post
That assumes there is a valid replacement, which there are none. Thus keeping Lulu is as vital as keeping India and China.
Um... Toudou? You know, someone they know that is fighting for Japan only.

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And you are mistaken; Lulu was the one who keep them around, not the other way around. They had no say in who to lead, because their leadership pool sucked.
Not any more it doesn't. In S1 it did because Lelouch wanted it that way. In R2 they are doing things without him needing to be there. While Lelouch was running around with a hat on, they were busy coordinating attacks in China.

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"You are fired" said the rebels.

"No," replied Zero. "You are all fired. I will be off to China and fight Britannia from there. You have fun blowing up civilians."
Hah... no. It will be more than just a simple "You are fired" it will be like getting chased away by a guy with a shotgun.
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Old 2008-07-26, 10:57   Link #2970
Vallen Chaos Valiant
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Originally Posted by Orga777 View Post
Um... Toudou? You know, someone they know that is fighting for Japan only.
If he was interested, he should have put his hand up for leadership when Lulu was gone. Instead, CC ran the show.

If there was a valid Lulu replacement in Japan, Lulu wouldn't have needed to create the Black Knights. The replacement would have done it by then.

By the original prototype script before the timeslot changed, that someone was Suzaku. But in the final script, that option is no longer available.

No matter which way I slice it, the "betrayal" makes about as much sense as Suzaku trying to inject Kallen with Refrain; I know it could be explained under the circumstances, but it doesn't make it any less of a stupid choice.
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Old 2008-07-26, 11:00   Link #2971
Stretch5920
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Go talk about Lelouch in the Lelouch thread.
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Old 2008-07-26, 11:04   Link #2972
Orga777
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Originally Posted by Vallen Chaos Valiant View Post
If he was interested, he should have put his hand up for leadership when Lulu was gone. Instead, CC ran the show.
Wait, what? C.C. was running the show because that is what Lelouch wanted. Also, Toudou is capable to do it if he is in charge of the whole organization and controls what is done. Which he would be if that happened.

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If there was a valid Lulu replacement in Japan, Lulu wouldn't have needed to create the Black Knights. The replacement would have done it by then.
Except Lelouch wiped out the other replacement... The JLF.

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No matter which way I slice it, the "betrayal" makes about as much sense as Suzaku trying to inject Kallen with Refrain; I know it could be explained under the circumstances, but it doesn't make it any less of a stupid choice.
Stupid or not, it can be justified. The organization isn't as helpless without Lelouch like it was in S1. That is the difference.
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Old 2008-07-26, 11:08   Link #2973
Witacume
Kalulu YES WE CAN
 
 
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Originally Posted by Orga777 View Post
Wait, what? C.C. was running the show because that is what Lelouch wanted. Also, Toudou is capable to do it if he is in charge of the whole organization and controls what is done. Which he would be if that happened.

Except Lelouch wiped out the other replacement... The JLF.

Stupid or not, it can be justified. The organization isn't as helpless without Lelouch like it was in S1. That is the difference.
This is getting off topic. this suppose to be about kallen take that to lelouch thread or something
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Old 2008-07-26, 11:09   Link #2974
Orga777
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This is getting off topic. this suppose to be about kallen take that to lelouch thread or something
Heh... yeah, sorry about that...
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Old 2008-07-26, 11:37   Link #2975
bladeofdarkness
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in the past few episode previews they didnt show us the importent events of the episodes
and they didnt show anything to do with kallen and suzaku
this time they show us not only that kallen would be in this ep but also that she's talking to the knight of ten
why do i think that that is not the importent event (as far as kallen goes) in this ep
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Old 2008-07-26, 11:43   Link #2976
FoxxFireArt
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I noticed on that last page Kallen's name was hardly even mentioned.
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Old 2008-07-26, 11:50   Link #2977
DarkLordOfkichiku
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Originally Posted by bladeofdarkness View Post
this time they show us not only that kallen would be in this ep but also that she's talking to the knight of ten
why do i think that that is not the importent event (as far as kallen goes) in this ep
Well, ít might all just be an excuse to introduce the KoT. And/or perhaps create a hint of that they'll fight each other at some point (like, having him say that it'd be interesting to fight her or something like that)...
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Old 2008-07-26, 12:11   Link #2978
Discerptor
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Originally Posted by FoxxFireArt View Post
That isn't true at all. For a year prior to C.C. reviving his memories Suzaku has know right where Lelouch was. Surely Nunnally must have asked many times where her brother is and every time Suzaku would of lied by saying he's missing. He's known right where he was.
Since you Lelouch worshippers are willing to pretend Suzaku doesn't doubt himself because he's not the main character and we don't see it as often on screen with Lelouch, I'll say "since we haven't seen it on screen, we can't assume it's happened." Otherwise, I can say it's very likely that Nunnally asked Lelouch at least once where he was going before one of his Zero outings, but he clearly had to lie. And that said, there was clearly a half-joking tone to this (notice the silly face?). Both Lelouch and Suzaku are responsible for deceiving Nunnally.
Quote:
He even tricked Nunnally into thinking she might get to talk to her brother as a test to see if Lelouch got his memories back. He knew that Lelouch would never knowingly lie to Nunnally. Thankfully, Rolo showed up and saved Lelouch from doing so.
... But she DID get to talk to her brother.
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Even if the trick would of worked what would Suzaku of done? Turned him over the the emperor? Suzaku has known this whole time that if Lelouch was exposed that would put Nunnally in danger.
I think, just as now, his primary objective this whole time has been to actually have a face-to-face with Lelouch and get a non-BS answer about what happened with Euphy. He's even mentioned this in one of his in-head questions to Lelouch earlier in the season.
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If you are on a side where the leader would use a blind girl in a wheelchair, then I think that may be a hint you are backing the wrong side. Kind of like how he was shot and nearly killed because he would execute an innocent person, in the first episode.
Suzaku knows what kind of an Empire it is, but the whole point is he's trying to become able to change it from within. He's already caused positive change as far as how Numbers are viewed goes, as well as the status of Area 11 and the non-massacred state of their people. And seeing as Zero has done FAR worse than use a blind girl in a wheelchair (and DID use an eight-year-old with the maturity of a rabbit), I wouldn't go trying to vouch for either side's overall morality. Lelouch himself said he would become a monster to destroy the evil Britannia.
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He doesn't need super powers of a Geass to tell if someone is lying. It could just be when she's holding someone's hand he can feel the stress in a person that shows a lie.
It truly amuses me when people buy into pseudo-science animé throws their way without actually knowing anything on the matter. Try to train yourself to detect fluctuations in galvanic skin response with your fingers, and then get to the point where you can get relatively good lie detector testing with only asking a single question. Tell me when you get good at it. Of course, the superpowers thing was a joke, but this is clearly just another contrivance for the sake of helping the plot not trip on itself, like Lelouch's magical contact lens.
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If Kallen has to be in jail I just hope for more scenes of her talking with Nunnally.
As do I.

Now, to actually get a little more on topic as we seem to be doing in the past few posts...

Judging by the taken-aback look of the Knight of Ten in the preview as well as Kallen's smug face, I'd guess it's a run of the mill "So you're the Black Knights' Ace, eh? I hear your good... for an Eleven," followed by a response akin to "Your MOM was good for an Eleven," and subsequent spazzing-out by the Knight of Ten. I doubt it'll be a very important scene, though most likely amusing. Kallen will probably pwn him later.

Last edited by Discerptor; 2008-07-26 at 12:21.
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Old 2008-07-26, 12:26   Link #2979
bladeofdarkness
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Originally Posted by DarkLordOfkichiku View Post
Well, ít might all just be an excuse to introduce the KoT. And/or perhaps create a hint of that they'll fight each other at some point (like, having him say that it'd be interesting to fight her or something like that)...
what i meant was that she might have another talk with someone during the ep (nunnaly i hope)
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Old 2008-07-26, 12:32   Link #2980
amjzz
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Rigth now kallen is just waiting lelouch...i wonder if she have any plans on escaping or will just trust in lelouch...

I dont understand whats the point of nunnally keeping her there...without ask her why she joined the black knights or something...

Maybe they know that zero is going to rescue her...and are waiting too.
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