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Old 2008-09-06, 10:22   Link #8021
Kusaja
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Orga777 View Post
While that may be true, there was an interview going around that Taniguchi had to drop a lot of stuff (mostly from Suzaku and Kallen) for R2. Which went away from what he originally planned. Two Ashford-crack episodes didn't even mess things up that much. Hell, there were just as many in S1. It is MORE than that.
While this is beating a dead horse...nobody has even looked at what the original plan was supposed to look like, so making a comparison would be unrealistic at this point. In the interview Taniguchi doesn't even mention Kallen and Suzaku only comes up when he says that his motivations have been hidden, and that looking at things from his perspective provides a different impression.

What you are referring to was an added interpretation by the person (Celiss Galvea) who wrote an article / summary about the interview, but it's not in the direct translation (by Mandoric) of the director's words, which was later also posted.

Then again, from other previous sources, I think that Kallen was going to get some romance-based development anyways, more than anything else. The only other thing that could have been a little interesting in terms of background was her absent father, but I think that would have been used in R2 if the staff really wanted to do so or considered it necessary. You can't blame the time slot for such things, at least not directly or entirely...it's the staff's job to work with those restrictions and choose what is a priority.
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Old 2008-09-06, 10:24   Link #8022
demon_god04
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kusaja View Post
Then again, from other previous sources, I think that Kallen was going to get some romance-based development anyways, more than anything else. The only other thing that could have been a little interesting in terms of background would have been his father, but I think that would have been used in R2 if the staff really wanted to do so or considered it necessary. You can't blame the time slot for such things, at least not directly...it's the staff's job to work with those restrictions and choose what is a priority.
On that note then and more on topic, Var, I think we can safely say Bismark is not Kallen's father at this point.
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Old 2008-09-06, 10:25   Link #8023
Orga777
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Originally Posted by demon_god04 View Post
Which as I stated it is the constant switch in perspective setting as well as the over abundance of characters that only really fit into one of those settings that killed development. Ashford focus is one of the problems, it highlights the major fault I saw in season one but was not as prevalent then as it is now. For example, you can't really develop Schneizel when you are focusing on Ashford scenes because he just has no place there. Like wise with Milly and Geass, Toudou and Ashford, and so on. So we are left with the main character who fits into all those settings because they are written for him, while the characters get shafted when the focus is shifted to other areas that they do not have a part in. It was not as prevailent in season one because largely I believe they had a more focused approach to the presentation while in R2 I am getting the sense of being jerked around sometimes between the plots.
Alright, I see what you mean now. Jumping all over like they have been has been a real issue. But that may also because they had to change it to a "restart" at the beginning of this season which slowed everything down WAY too much and the plot still hasn't been able to rebound from that bad start. It is a shame...
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Old 2008-09-06, 10:27   Link #8024
Var
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Originally Posted by Fruit Punch Samurai View Post
Glad somebody notices, but your right it shouldn't distract anyone's enjoyment of this series (unless you really really hate Lelouch) its kind of hard to ignore though if you compare and contrast characters an situation from R1 to R2.
There's a logic problem in this. Many character did get shafted for further focus on Lelouch and Lelouch and more Lelouch. For example, C.C.'s character was an unamazing slab of boring for most of R2. Nothing changed in her character. The KoR, aside from Anya, and just about every Order member was unchanging. The majority of the cast simply was left to the wayside. Now, on the other hand, there were a few characters that were focused on in their development, some were focused towards Lelouch, while others were unique in that they were developed for themselves. Xing-ke and Tianzi being about the only ones to fall into that category.

Anya, Shirley, Kallen, Charles, V.V., Schneizel, and Suzaku were all developed towards Lelouch in some form. Kallen has easily taken the most screen time in that development, similarly Suzaku is also pretty high. Everyone else was brisk or generally short in their development. So its not just some random character XYZ getting shafted, its a main character that's taken a major amount of screen time in their development. So either a.) the writers had no idea what they were doing and wasted a collosal amount of time, or b.) everyone's jumping to pointlessly unneccessary conclusions.
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Old 2008-09-06, 10:30   Link #8025
demon_god04
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Originally Posted by Orga777 View Post
Alright, I see what you mean now. Jumping all over like they have been has been a real issue. But that may also because they had to change it to a "restart" at the beginning of this season which slowed everything down WAY too much and the plot still hasn't been able to rebound from that bad start. It is a shame...
The constant shift also discourages development in that when one character starts getting scense the focus can shift to somewhere he has no part in. And this also ties into the pacing problem as well. While the start may have been an issue, it still doesn't really explain to me why they chose such an awkward way of presenting the story to us. It would not be as big of a problem has the cast not been so huge, or they are more focused in bringing out the settings to the story. But you are right, it is a shame.
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Old 2008-09-06, 10:31   Link #8026
eaglei3
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Originally Posted by Orga777 View Post
While that may be true, there was an interview going around that Taniguchi had to drop a lot of stuff (mostly from Suzaku and Kallen) for R2. Which went away from what he originally planned. Two Ashford-crack episodes didn't even mess things up that much. Hell, there were just as many in S1. It is MORE than that.
Wait, did he specifically mention those two characters? I thought he was mostly just pissed about the time change and how he might have lowered the intensity of the suggestive themes.
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Old 2008-09-06, 10:32   Link #8027
Kusaja
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eaglei3: That's not in the direct translation of the interview, at least...the rest is just interpretation.

Quote:
Originally Posted by demon_god04 View Post
On that note then and more on topic, Var, I think we can safely say Bismark is not Kallen's father at this point.
Definitely...although that would have been an interesting twist, don't you think?
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Old 2008-09-06, 10:33   Link #8028
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Originally Posted by Var View Post
So either a.) the writers had no idea what they were doing and wasted a collosal amount of time, or b.) everyone's jumping to pointlessly unneccessary conclusions.
After watching episodes 20 and 21 I'm leaning towards a.) on this one
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Old 2008-09-06, 10:33   Link #8029
bladeofdarkness
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kusaja View Post
Definitely...although that would have been an interesting twist, don't you think?
no
too many coinceidences as it is
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Old 2008-09-06, 10:34   Link #8030
demon_god04
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Originally Posted by Kusaja View Post
Definitely...although that would have been an interesting twist, don't you think?
At any rate I do wonder what Kallen's father does for a living and just how powerful the Stadtfeld are.
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Old 2008-09-06, 10:35   Link #8031
Fruit Punch Samurai
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Originally Posted by Kusaja View Post
Definitely...although that would have been an interesting twist, don't you think?
I definitely think everyone went overboard on Gino's comment of her skill being that of a KOR and not just Var
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Old 2008-09-06, 10:39   Link #8032
TheDisruptiveOne
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Originally Posted by Var View Post
So either a.) the writers had no idea what they were doing and wasted a collosal amount of time, or b.) everyone's jumping to pointlessly unneccessary conclusions.
I would agree with Fruit Punch Samurai as well. I am leaning towards A. Those scenes are especially wastes of time now that we see how badly they are rushing to complete the series. This season was completely botched and mishandled.

The first season was too though. All interviews indicate that they ran out of time. They were able to end the first season in an acceptable manner because they decided to throw in a second season. Unfortunately, it doesn't look like the second season can be salvaged since they don't have that trick in their arsenal again.
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Old 2008-09-06, 10:48   Link #8033
Kusaja
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I was just teasing, you know...not taking that too seriously.

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Originally Posted by demon_god04 View Post
At any rate I do wonder what Kallen's father does for a living and just how powerful the Stadtfeld are.
We'll have to wonder about that, potentially indefinitely, since right now we can only define him by his absence and lack of intervention.

If the staff is willing, he could be briefly mentioned next episode or by the end of the series, at the very least, if nothing else.

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Originally Posted by TheDisruptiveOne View Post
I would agree with Fruit Punch Samurai as well. I am leaning towards A. Those scenes are especially wastes of time now that we see how badly they are rushing to complete the series. This season was completely botched and mishandled.

The first season was too though. All interviews indicate that they ran out of time. They were able to end the first season in an acceptable manner because they decided to throw in a second season. Unfortunately, it doesn't look like the second season can be salvaged since they don't have that trick in their arsenal again.
I think it's both A and B, since it's clear that a lot of time has been misused, and even if the series had to be "re-started" for a new audience keeping things simple (less characters, less plot twists) would have been the best way to avoid the pacing problems we've seen, but that doesn't prevent any of us from also jumping to conclusions on our own.

The first season ran into production problems that led to recap episodes, which did waste time, but according to the Taniguchi interview they had already planned to end it on that same Lelouch-Suzaku (plus Kallen) cliffhanger regardless, unless you wanted to assume that's just an excuse.

In this case, it doesn't look like there are any production problems worth skipping entire episodes (by using recaps) in R2, unless you count the episode 9 delay, and we are still going to get to Turn 25 on-schedule, which I'm hoping will be a good ending in its own right.
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Old 2008-09-06, 10:54   Link #8034
kir44n
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Until I've seen the entirety of the series, I withhold judgement on it being either A or B. Ichirō Ōkouchi has already made his rant against people that say his writing happens right before the episode, so I'll give him the benefit of the doubt for now. 4 episodes gives us close to 2.5 hours of stuff still to happen (last one should be an hour long ender).
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Old 2008-09-06, 10:55   Link #8035
Var
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Wait, did he specifically mention those two characters? I thought he was mostly just pissed about the time change and how he might have lowered the intensity of the suggestive themes.
They weren't mentioned in the context Orga is using. They were mentioned for having further possible developments, like her backstory about her family, and Suzaku's geass connection. But they were ultimately dropped for time. Their characters, and how they've developed this season, have likely not been changed from what was originally planned, it is just slightly shallower.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kir44n View Post
Until I've seen the entirety of the series, I withhold judgement on it being either A or B. Ichirō Ōkouchi has already made his rant against people that say his writing happens right before the episode, so I'll give him the benefit of the doubt for now. 4 episodes gives us close to 2.5 hours of stuff still to happen (last one should be an hour long ender).
That excuse doesn't fly since Code Geass' story has been completed for well over two months now.
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Old 2008-09-06, 10:59   Link #8036
demon_god04
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Originally Posted by Var View Post
They weren't mentioned in the context Orga is using. They were mentioned for having further possible developments, like her backstory about her family, and Suzaku's geass connection. But they were ultimately dropped for time. Their characters, and how they've developed this season, have likely not been changed from what was originally planned, it is just slightly shallower.
Yeah well I'd have hoped that atleast in the original they had plans to develop Schneizel, Marianne and Charles. As it stood they are about as shallow as a kiddy pool in terms of development. I am curious as to where they intended to go with Suzaku's geass connection, and whether Kallen's backstory would have gotten her development in the direction of accepting both sides of her blood rather then denying one part of her.
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Old 2008-09-06, 11:01   Link #8037
bladeofdarkness
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Var View Post
They weren't mentioned in the context Orga is using. They were mentioned for having further possible developments, like her backstory about her family, and Suzaku's geass connection. But they were ultimately dropped for time. Their characters, and how they've developed this season, have likely not been changed from what was originally planned, it is just slightly shallower
all the more reason to believe that kallens potential romantic conection with lulu is their end game
if they had to drop something and make her development more shallow and they still choose to forcefeed us her falling in love with him then that might have been their plans for her all along
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Old 2008-09-06, 11:03   Link #8038
Dream_Traveller
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And now everyone's complaining in one way or another...
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Old 2008-09-06, 11:04   Link #8039
bladeofdarkness
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And now everyone's complaining in one way or another...
the tension is killing us (well, me at least)
so its a way to vent
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Old 2008-09-06, 11:05   Link #8040
Orga777
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Originally Posted by demon_god04 View Post
Yeah well I'd have hoped that atleast in the original they had plans to develop Schneizel, Marianne and Charles. As it stood they are about as shallow as a kiddy pool in terms of development. I am curious as to where they intended to go with Suzaku's geass connection, and whether Kallen's backstory would have gotten her development in the direction of accepting both sides of her blood rather then denying one part of her.
Well, nothing we can do about Charles and Marianne's development now since that is definitely over, but I am still holding some hope that we will get enough Schneizel in the next couple episodes for us to get a good amount of development for him. Hopefully to make up for how bad they botched Charles.
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