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Old 2008-09-21, 14:19   Link #12821
Nogitsune
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Join Date: Sep 2008
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lolipopo View Post
Because she is fighting to what she thinks is good and refuse to let her feelings take the steps over what she must do ?
This is kind of a noble attitude, to sacrifice your personal will to heading toward actions you have to do. Lelouch didn't permit her to understand, to her he is the bad guy, she isn't omniscient, she knows even less than us.
As I said: "she's still a good fighter and doesn't run from the responsibility she thinks she has".
But that still doesn't excuse how easily she's fooled. In my eyes, that is.
I mean, last time Lelouch pretended to be the bad guy, it was to safe her. And now she tries to ignore her personal feelings so much that she's already doing the exact opposite again.
She doesn't believe in Lelouch at all.
And that annoys me - even more than Nunally, because not even I can stay mad at Nunally. xD
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Old 2008-09-21, 14:24   Link #12822
bladeofdarkness
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nogitsune View Post
As I said: "she's still a good fighter and doesn't run from the responsibility she thinks she has".
But that still doesn't excuse how easily she's fooled. In my eyes, that is.
I mean, last time Lelouch pretended to be the bad guy, it was to safe her. And now she tries to ignore her personal feelings so much that she's already doing the exact opposite again.
She doesn't believe in Lelouch at all.
And that annoys me - even more than Nunally, because not even I can stay mad at Nunally. xD
compere "bad guy"
with complete monster
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Old 2008-09-21, 14:27   Link #12823
vio5555
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zalem View Post
He is on a fortress that is about to explode. Of course he wants to stop the self destruct sequence. Not to mention I highly doubt he wants to blow Nunnally up. Standing against her is one thing, blowing her up is quite another.

Who knows, maybe they plan on completing Schneizel's plan and that is Zero Requiem. Maybe they are the end bosses. Or maybe they just are trying to get Nunnally off of it first and then plan on blowing it up. The fact is, we don't know what their plans are.
Did you watch 24?

Schneizel's plan was to perpetually live in the present by enforcing the present power structure. That is the theoretical thrust of putting a massive bomb launching impenetrable fortress over the Earth and enforcing loyalty.

Lelouch's plan, the Zero Requiem, is to look to the future in some capacity by tearing down the present power structure and replacing it with something, probably not too different from a representation of what people will it to be.

I.E. it makes absolutely no sense to even consider the assertion that Lelouch's plan is to complete Schneizel's. The two are fundamentally different and incompatible, one enforces the present and the other looks to the future.
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Old 2008-09-21, 14:28   Link #12824
Lolipopo
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Amaterasu Gate View Post
So she stopping something that very well change the world for the better all because she perceives it as evil
Does Kallen have the same reason to think this that you ? Kallen's point of view : lelouch is ready to take over the world, playing the total vilain, blowing her comrades, ready to kill the representants, casting his geass to create some slaves....

Hard to think he is a good guy no ? She doesn't want to let her feeling controls her way to act and is acting for what she is seeing as something good. lelouch refused to answered to her questions and choosed to push her away. This was totally predictable, hélas.

Quote:
But that still doesn't excuse how easily she's fooled. In my eyes, that is.
I mean, last time Lelouch pretended to be the bad guy, it was to safe her. And now she tries to ignore her personal feelings so much that she's already doing the exact opposite again.
She doesn't believe in Lelouch at all.
And that annoys me - even more than Nunally, because not even I can stay mad at Nunally. xD
Read what I wrote above, Kallen doesn't have the same materials than us to make her choice. See things like this; At the end of S1 she was totally fooled while discovering Lelouch's identity and run away after have learned he used her as a pawn. The Turn 25 of R2 is going to have a resolution between them, and Kallen's gum line foreshadows that she is finally understanding the true Lelouch. It's only plot convenience imo, I'm sad about that, but at this point Kallen can only fight for what she believes is true, and she is doing this perfectly (she was totally in her fight, not as some fangirl who is sad about her feelings...a woman, a true )

And Lelouch didn't help her to think he was playing a role, taking her friends as hostage, geassing everyone...
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Old 2008-09-21, 14:30   Link #12825
Anh_Minh
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What bothers me isn't that they don't believe in Lelouch. Even though they ought to have a bit more faith in him (like Rollo... Wait, he had too much faith. Then again, it redeemed him.), I can understand why they feel betrayed by Lelouch. If he'd just taken them into his confidence, they'd be killing for him. Gleefully. Even sweet Nunnally would turn Yandere for her brother's sake and have chainsaws installed on her wheelchair or something.

OK, so they feel betrayed. But how do they react? They trust in Schneizel instead? For him they kill, for him they make possible the slaughter of billions? WTH? I know they're pissed at Lelouch, but whatever happened to sleeping with deadbeat rock musicians (for Nunnally) or his best friend (for Kallen)?
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Old 2008-09-21, 14:31   Link #12826
zalem
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We don't know what Lulu plans for Damocles, but now I'm thinking on it...I don't think it's going to be following through with Schneizel's plan. Lelouch said that Charles represented 'yesterday', Schneizel is protecting 'today' but that he fights for 'tomorrow.' If he sees Schneizel's plan as something protecting 'today' then I highly doubt he is going to use the same exact plan for his 'tomorrow.' No, he's got something else cooked up imho....

Quote:
Originally Posted by Amaterasu Gate View Post
So she stopping something that very well change the world for the better all because she perceives it as evil
Well, I don't blame her for this because she is working off of limited info. From her point of view things look pretty bad. Though I was hoping she would see through his mask. I would think she'd know him well enough by now to see that everything isn't always what it seems to be with him. I am now of the opinion that she will never be able to do this.
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Old 2008-09-21, 14:32   Link #12827
Lolipopo
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Anh_Minh View Post
What bothers me isn't that they don't believe in Lelouch. Even though they ought to have a bit more faith in him (like Rollo... Wait, he had too much faith. Then again, it redeemed him.), I can understand why they feel betrayed by Lelouch. If he'd just taken them into his confidence, they'd be killing for him. Gleefully. Even sweet Nunnally would turn Yandere for her brother's sake and have chainsaws installed on her wheelchair or something.

But they trust in Schneizel? For him they kill, for him they make possible the slaughter of billions? WTH?
It's kinda hard to believe in a guy who is really acting as a vilain :/
If even his own sister has doubts about him...

Zalem : Turn parallels. S1, Kallen is fooled by Lelouch's mask. This time, her gum line is foreshadowing something different. She can understand him but for this freakin plot sake...only at the last moment.
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Old 2008-09-21, 14:32   Link #12828
Amaterasu Gate
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lolipopo View Post
Does Kallen have the same reason to think this that you ? Kallen's point of view : lelouch is ready to take over the world, playing the total vilain, blowing her comrades, ready to kill the representants, casting his geass to create some slaves....

Hard to think he is a good guy no ? She doesn't want to let her feeling controls her way to act and is acting for what she is seeing as something good. lelouch refused to answered to her questions and choosed to push her away. This was totally predictable, hélas.



Read what I wrote above, Kallen doesn't have the same materials than us to make her choice. See things like this; At the end of S1 she was totally fooled while discovering Lelouch's identity and run away after have learned he used her as a pawn. The Turn 25 of R2 is going to have a resolution between them, and Kallen's gum line foreshadows that she is finally understanding the true Lelouch. It's only plot convenience imo, I'm sad about that, but at this point Kallen can only fight for what she believes is true, and she is doing this perfectly (she was totally in her fight, not as some fangirl who is sad about her feelings...a woman, a true )

And Lelouch didn't help her to think he was playing a role, taking her friends as hostage, geassing everyone...
You can say that right now but her being in the dark can easily lead to her demise and one line isn't gonna change the course so easily, you may be happy but what would have been the point.
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Old 2008-09-21, 14:35   Link #12829
zalem
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Originally Posted by vio5555 View Post
Did you watch 24?

I.E. it makes absolutely no sense to even consider the assertion that Lelouch's plan is to complete Schneizel's. The two are fundamentally different and incompatible, one enforces the present and the other looks to the future.
Which is why I said in my latest post that it doesn't make sense for Requiem to be about Schneizel's plan. But some here are convinced he's going to do something akin to it.
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Old 2008-09-21, 14:36   Link #12830
Lolipopo
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Amaterasu Gate View Post
You can say that right now but her being in the dark can easily lead to her demise and one line isn't gonna change the course so easily, you may be happy but what would have been the point.
The point would have been that all her devellopment about learning about Lelouch, all their romantic devellopment, will not be waste. It will be late, and will lead to a sad ending for those two, but at least, her devellopment will be kinda save.
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Old 2008-09-21, 14:37   Link #12831
yvj
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hanseo View Post
this thread is full of damage control
That's when happens when a show not only decides to torpedo a pairing but also to dismantle one of the characters.
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Old 2008-09-21, 14:38   Link #12832
youngde
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Join Date: Jul 2008
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Narona View Post
Koshimizu said today again that the animedia conversation is made up.
True, but the basic premise of the first conversation: Schneizel saying he will be a god and Cornelia not liking it, did basically happen. I see no reason that a similar instance could happen again. I.e., Kallen, Gino and Anya questioning Suzaku and Lelouch about their promise, which at this point I pretty sure has something to do with making the 'flawless Zero act' into reality.
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Old 2008-09-21, 14:38   Link #12833
Nogitsune
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Anh_Minh View Post
What bothers me isn't that they don't believe in Lelouch. Even though they ought to have a bit more faith in him (like Rollo... Wait, he had too much faith. Then again, it redeemed him.), I can understand why they feel betrayed by Lelouch. If he'd just taken them into his confidence, they'd be killing for him. Gleefully. Even sweet Nunnally would turn Yandere for her brother's sake and have chainsaws installed on her wheelchair or something.

OK, so they feel betrayed. But how do they react? They trust in Schneizel instead? For him they kill, for him they make possible the slaughter of billions? WTH? I know they're pissed at Lelouch, but whatever happened to sleeping with deadbeat rock musicians (for Nunnally) or his best friend (for Kallen)?
*agrees*
Errr... except that I don't view Kallen as Lelouch's best friend. xD
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Old 2008-09-21, 14:38   Link #12834
zalem
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lolipopo View Post

Zalem : Turn parallels. S1, Kallen is fooled by Lelouch's mask. This time, her gum line is foreshadowing something different. She can understand him but for this freakin plot sake...only at the last moment.
I really, really hope that's going to be the case. Even if it is at the last moment. Otherwise, I'm going to be rather disappointed. 2 seasons of interaction with Lelouch and she still can't see beyond the mask? That's just frustrating.
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Old 2008-09-21, 14:41   Link #12835
SonOfHeaven
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I just saw the sub and what I feared is coming true. Kallen's development was only to lead her becoming an enemy and could be the final one at the end(Either way both Lelouch and Kallen should confront one another next episode). Looking back at her this season, I guess her development was never meant to see through Lelouch but just fall in love with him since imo she should have seen thorugh his mask beforehand. If they simply wanted Kallen to become an enemy, they should have never had Lelouch tell Kallen to live on. If they never made that happen she would have been against him anyhow.
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Old 2008-09-21, 14:43   Link #12836
Dream_Traveller
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Well, so much for her purported 'essentiality' is all I can say. However, one episode remains. It's their LAST chance to do Kallen justice. If not then...then Kallen's character's demolished.
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Old 2008-09-21, 14:45   Link #12837
Anh_Minh
I disagree with you all.
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nogitsune View Post
*agrees*
Errr... except that I don't view Kallen as Lelouch's best friend. xD
No, I meant Kallen should sleep with Lelouch's best friend to "punish" him.
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Old 2008-09-21, 14:46   Link #12838
zalem
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Yeah, all that development seems wasted if she can't see through him at the very end at least. I don't expect Kalulu at all at this point, but I would hope for some kind of understanding between the two. So yeah, I hope she does see through him. But I'm starting to get worried that it's not going to happen.
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Old 2008-09-21, 14:46   Link #12839
prototype_sky
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SonOfHeaven View Post
I just saw the sub and what I feared is coming true. Kallen's development was only to lead her becoming an enemy and could be the final one at the end(Either way both Lelouch and Kallen should confront one another next episode). Looking back at her this season, I guess her development was never meant to see through Lelouch but just fall in love with him since imo she should have seen thorugh his mask beforehand. If they simply wanted Kallen to become an enemy, they should have never had Lelouch tell Kallen to live on. If they never made that happen she would have been against him anyhow.
I doubt they'll face each other again on less she's on foot because it'll be a repeat of ep 24 but without anyone to save him

the final showdown for lulu can only be nunnally, no one affects him more than her.
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Old 2008-09-21, 14:48   Link #12840
Kusaja
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It really depends on how the last episode plays out, but it's not exactly a good thing to drag this out for drama in such a way.

I'm guessing the final result would be Kallen realizing the truth next episode, remaining as one of the few people not involved in Zero Requiem who understood Lelouch when all this is over, while almost everyone else will continue to think Lelouch was a "demon king".

Yes, it will come too late, but better late than never.

Whether that makes her "essential" or not is up for debate, but that would be better than letting her remain an ignorant and an enemy until the very end, which is possible but less likely. Or so I hope.
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