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Old 2009-05-13, 07:09   Link #19081
Kid Ying
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lolipopo View Post
And since we are saying in France that the best defense is attack, Kalulu fans simply stand their ground.
Well, i think everyone says that, in every country possible, hehe.

And i have to agree with yvj(you won this time, yvj, but don't think it's the last you've heard of me! i'll be back in the same bat-hour, in the same bat-channel) about the image thread, Nobody. Okay, Kallen got some love these days, but most of the time, C.C is the star there (Not that i'm complaining, C.C got more fans, so it's natural to have more fanarts and official arts). Besides, we even got to see the heroine's tribute these days, so i think every fan is well served for the time.
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Old 2009-05-13, 07:35   Link #19082
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nobodyman9 View Post
Let me just say that, when a person goes to the Image thread and finds almost nothing but Kallen pics have been posted and that character isn't exacly his/her "cup of tea" I think you can understand how people might become insecure and defensive about their situation. It doesn't excuse the lengths that they go to though.

Lol, this is a joke now, right? 80% of the pics in the image section, are C.C and C.CxL, and guess what? That is cool, there is nice artwork, because, the pairing is popular thus, more artists, thus more talent. It is ART people, like, ART. If someone does not like seeing certain charas in that section, then well, baw moar. I know, that i would prefer to see a bit more Kalulu or Shirlulu or w/e, but i do not mind seeing C.C/xL, because the art is epic.
There is not guideline, that states which pics should posted and which should not. Again, ART. I do not get how the "cup of tea"-chara card, can actually find a place here.
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Old 2009-05-13, 10:58   Link #19083
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Yeah, I gotta admit, most of the pics in the image thread are CC and CC/Lulu.

What we really need is some more non-hentai CC/Kallen. 8D
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Old 2009-05-13, 11:30   Link #19084
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Nobodyman: good post, I agree with a lot of what you said.

Well then, about the current situation on this particular subforum - sure, Kalulu is way more active than any other "group" and it's been like that for a long time now. The thing is, Kalulu was way more active in the past, back when the show was actually airing, but we were not more active than others. I think the fact that Kalulu supporters have more reasons to stay active is why we're in the majority today. Back when the CluClu lobby dwarfed us is size we were regularly spat upon. We were often declared "delusional" for the way we interpreted the scenes (funny how that turned out btw) and it was just as popular back then to call Kallen a slut (which truly is a desperate and ridiculous delusion).

If we were to create a new favorite character poll today C.C. would still win by a landslide. If we were to create a new favorite pairing poll today CluClu would still put all other pairings to shame. Then why is it we pretty much never see any constructive CluClu-posts (note that I'm only talking about the romantic aspect)? Well, they can't argue for their pairing since (and I think it's sad that the staff did what they did) it's completely impossible to do so. It's the only pairing where personal interpretations and personal opinions won't matter since the staff officially shot the pairing down, thus confirming the way I and many others interpreted the CluClu scenes when we first saw them. That is not the case with Shirlulu and Kalulu however. They were never shot down, and Kalulu even got staff statements and post screening material that supported the interpretations the Kalulu supporters did and found obvious in the first place. It's not like any staff statements or any post screening material changed the way we interpreted the scenes, though I can of course only speak for myself. All it did was to support or confirm these interpretations. Still, arguing against these interpretations suddenly turned a lot harder once they were backed up by words from the staff. I'd say this is why most of the romantic activity on the forum happens to be Kalulu activity.

I agree with what some of you said about Kalulus sometimes being overly aggressive. That's definitely true. When we got all this support, both from the series itself as well as the staff, we shouldn't have to be aggressive. We should be able to be pretty humble about it. The fact remains though, that Kallen is the most bashed female character in the show, and Kalulu is the most bashed pairing. The others don't even come close. This is however easily explained by one of the basic rules of shipping - as a butthurt supporter of a neglected pairing your primary strategy will be to bash that character or pairing that got so much screen time and development that you didn't care for. To call her a slut and a bitch, even though she was clearly portrayed to be the exact opposite of that, is one way. To "find" chemistry between her and any random male character she encounters is another. To use the fact the protagonist died before a canon pairing was formed and say "you can't know that for sure since neither the protagonist nor the main writer said that he loved her, and I don't see it" is a third.

Most active Kalulus have something in common. They have, probably since the first season, been supporting a pairing and a character that has been the most hated and the most bashed throughout this entire experience. When the main opposition was finally officially shot down by the staff and the way we interpreted the scenes in the first place was finally officially supported by those who created the show and its characters... well, I think a lot of Kalulus remembered all the crap we had to take on the forums during the one year break and the airing of R2.

That Kallen is the most bashed/hated character is only natural. It's simply the way fandom works. As a supporter of another pairing you will always recognize someone as being the biggest threat and Kallen always was the biggest threat to any other pairing that also included Lelouch. This is where a huge majority of the hate comes from if you ask me. I don't think much of it nowadays as I only see it as proof of the fact other groups of the fan base recognize her development with Lelouch even though they wouldn't admit it themselves, they resort to bashing instead.

So, what I'm trying to say is that I believe the reason why some Kalulus sometimes become a bit aggressive is what happened in the past within the CG fan base. I must say though that a lot of the aggressive posts are either ironically written or simply humorous in nature and that people are overreacting. If they had been active here back in the days when the show was airing they would have seen a lot more aggression, and a lot of it was directed at Kallen and her pairing for, among others, previously stated reasons.

I rarely post at all. I often type up posts but I end up deleting them. If I were to always say exactly what I thought about something, like certain opinions and ways of reasoning, I would definitely piss some people off. That's why I delete more than 9 out of 10 posts before even posting them, especially now since we don't even have a romance thread. I did however type up a long and serious post (my first in months) about the scene in Turn 7 and I tried to post it, but I was a couple of minutes too late. That scene had been bashed all night long by some people who called it "meaningless" and "completely irrelevant" and I thought I should finally join the discussion in order to point out just how biased one would have to be to claim something like that (either that or one didn't pay attention), but the romance thread had been locked while I was typing. Perhaps that was a sign or something. "Don't you go posting anything Meatrose". ^^;

Anyhow, I hope the romance thread will be back someday. Romance always was the most popular topic, even back when the show was airing. A locked romance thread will lead to two things:

1) The activity dies down.

2) The shipping will start seeping into other threads. This is already happening as we speak by the way, and those avoiding the romance thread will probably not enjoy that fact.

I don't know if the romance thread will ever be brought back, but I'm saving that Turn 7 post in a .txt just in case.

On another note, I'd like to applaud most active Shirlulu supporters on this forum for being such good sports about these discussions. AS is the only forum where constructive, civilized and intelligent discussions about romance in Code Geass are held in my opinion. All other boards I've seen are full of bashing, flaming, delusion and most of all - denial. Let's try to keep it civil in the future, with or without the romance thread. =)
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Old 2009-05-13, 11:38   Link #19085
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Very nice and deep post meatrose
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Old 2009-05-13, 11:39   Link #19086
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I suppose i can agree with what you said Meatrose {i said pretty much what you said, to a person from LJ in FS too} but just a correction: Suzaku. <--he is the most hated/bash chara, in the Geass universe. 8D
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Old 2009-05-13, 11:44   Link #19087
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Nicely done Meatrose
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Old 2009-05-13, 11:51   Link #19088
CC
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Not normally someone who... attends character threads, just felt like stopping by~

Quote:
Originally Posted by yvj View Post
I've followed the image thread for a long time and there hasn't been an influx of red until recently with Kakashi bombing it with some Kallen fan service.
The Code Geass Image Thread is the topic I'm most active in and I'd have to agree with yvj. While there were a few days where that a larger-than-usual amount of Kallen pictures were posted, it wasn't that bad. There were still other posters around - such as myself, yurihime, Sonae and others - posting images of different characters just as frequently. However, I will say there tends to be more discussion around the Kallen images sometimes, as users like Lolipopo, incorrupts and Kakashi are - obviously - Kallen fans and also like to make discussion.** That's fine as long as the thread stays more image than discussion, but I do realize that it makes the Kallen images stand out more to those that aren't fond of her.

** I'm not saying the other images aren't discussed, so don't get me wrong, just that with Kakashi dumping Kallen images, more discussion about her came along, and there were some pro-Kallen/Lelouch images that might've left the wrong impression for some people.

I, personally, post more images of C.C. & Lelouch than Lelouch with any other character. As usual, I stress that this isn't because I ship the two of them, just that I'm (obviously) a C.C. fan and I dig up pictures of her more often than any character, and yeah obviously there's a lot of C.C./Lelouch. Of course it's likely the same for Kallen fans, they look for her pictures more than any others so obviously they're bound to have more of those to post.

Now, about the character. I liked Kallen throughout the first season, I only found myself disliking her near the end R2. I didn't full-blown hate her or anything like that. Then, in the last few months, I continuously ran into Kalulu fans who'd give me hell for the silliest of reasons (eg. Using the name C.C.), and honestly it was hard not to be frustrated toward the character in general after that. I 100% agree with anyone who says the Kalulu fanbase has been hard to tolerate lately. I only recently met a Kalulu fan (here on AnimeSuki) that responded to me in a sane-non-explosive manner - and honestly, it shouldn't have taken that long.

My point in close is that Kallen fans, particularly Kalulu fans, have actually managed to make me hate Kallen at times. Take what you will from that, I'm expecting responses that tell me that this is ridiculous or nonsense, but it's simply how I feel and there's nothing wrong or ridiculous about it. If Kalulu fans were a little more rational, and well... friendly, I wouldn't have such a problem with it.

No offence to any of the Kalulu fans around here, chances are I've never met you. My direct experience with Kalulu fans were in places other than AnimeSuki.
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Old 2009-05-13, 11:59   Link #19089
Lolipopo
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Meatrose View Post
Nobodyman: good post, I agree with a lot of what you said.

Well then, about the current situation on this particular subforum - sure, Kalulu is way more active than any other "group" and it's been like that for a long time now. The thing is, Kalulu was way more active in the past, back when the show was actually airing, but we were not more active than others. I think the fact that Kalulu supporters have more reasons to stay active is why we're in the majority today. Back when the CluClu lobby dwarfed us is size we were regularly spat upon. We were often declared "delusional" for the way we interpreted the scenes (funny how that turned out btw) and it was just as popular back then to call Kallen a slut (which truly is a desperate and ridiculous delusion).

If we were to create a new favorite character poll today C.C. would still win by a landslide. If we were to create a new favorite pairing poll today CluClu would still put all other pairings to shame. Then why is it we pretty much never see any constructive CluClu-posts (note that I'm only talking about the romantic aspect)? Well, they can't argue for their pairing since (and I think it's sad that the staff did what they did) it's completely impossible to do so. It's the only pairing where personal interpretations and personal opinions won't matter since the staff officially shot the pairing down, thus confirming the way I and many others interpreted the CluClu scenes when we first saw them. That is not the case with Shirlulu and Kalulu however. They were never shot down, and Kalulu even got staff statements and post screening material that supported the interpretations the Kalulu supporters did and found obvious in the first place. It's not like any staff statements or any post screening material changed the way we interpreted the scenes, though I can of course only speak for myself. All it did was to support or confirm these interpretations. Still, arguing against these interpretations suddenly turned a lot harder once they were backed up by words from the staff. I'd say this is why most of the romantic activity on the forum happens to be Kalulu activity.

I agree with what some of you said about Kalulus sometimes being overly aggressive. That's definitely true. When we got all this support, both from the series itself as well as the staff, we shouldn't have to be aggressive. We should be able to be pretty humble about it. The fact remains though, that Kallen is the most bashed female character in the show, and Kalulu is the most bashed pairing. The others don't even come close. This is however easily explained by one of the basic rules of shipping - as a butthurt supporter of a neglected pairing your primary strategy will be to bash that character or pairing that got so much screen time and development that you didn't care for. To call her a slut and a bitch, even though she was clearly portrayed to be the exact opposite of that, is one way. To "find" chemistry between her and any random male character she encounters is another. To use the fact the protagonist died before a canon pairing was formed and say "you can't know that for sure since neither the protagonist nor the main writer said that he loved her, and I don't see it" is a third.

Most active Kalulus have something in common. They have, probably since the first season, been supporting a pairing and a character that has been the most hated and the most bashed throughout this entire experience. When the main opposition was finally officially shot down by the staff and the way we interpreted the scenes in the first place was finally officially supported by those who created the show and its characters... well, I think a lot of Kalulus remembered all the crap we had to take on the forums during the one year break and the airing of R2.

That Kallen is the most bashed/hated character is only natural. It's simply the way fandom works. As a supporter of another pairing you will always recognize someone as being the biggest threat and Kallen always was the biggest threat to any other pairing that also included Lelouch. This is where a huge majority of the hate comes from if you ask me. I don't think much of it nowadays as I only see it as proof of the fact other groups of the fan base recognize her development with Lelouch even though they wouldn't admit it themselves, they resort to bashing instead.

So, what I'm trying to say is that I believe the reason why some Kalulus sometimes become a bit aggressive is what happened in the past within the CG fan base. I must say though that a lot of the aggressive posts are either ironically written or simply humorous in nature and that people are overreacting. If they had been active here back in the days when the show was airing they would have seen a lot more aggression, and a lot of it was directed at Kallen and her pairing for, among others, previously stated reasons.

I rarely post at all. I often type up posts but I end up deleting them. If I were to always say exactly what I thought about something, like certain opinions and ways of reasoning, I would definitely piss some people off. That's why I delete more than 9 out of 10 posts before even posting them, especially now since we don't even have a romance thread. I did however type up a long and serious post (my first in months) about the scene in Turn 7 and I tried to post it, but I was a couple of minutes too late. That scene had been bashed all night long by some people who called it "meaningless" and "completely irrelevant" and I thought I should finally join the discussion in order to point out just how biased one would have to be to claim something like that (either that or one didn't pay attention), but the romance thread had been locked while I was typing. Perhaps that was a sign or something. "Don't you go posting anything Meatrose". ^^;

Anyhow, I hope the romance thread will be back someday. Romance always was the most popular topic, even back when the show was airing. A locked romance thread will lead to two things:

1) The activity dies down.

2) The shipping will start seeping into other threads. This is already happening as we speak by the way, and those avoiding the romance thread will probably not enjoy that fact.

I don't know if the romance thread will ever be brought back, but I'm saving that Turn 7 post in a .txt just in case.

On another note, I'd like to applaud most active Shirlulu supporters on this forum for being such good sports about these discussions. AS is the only forum where constructive, civilized and intelligent discussions about romance in Code Geass are held in my opinion. All other boards I've seen are full of bashing, flaming, delusion and most of all - denial. Let's try to keep it civil in the future, with or without the romance thread. =)

....There is nothing to add.
I need to save and print this post to make of it my new paperwall.
You said everything in an awesome way.
I'm going to cry

*off*

And Ot, but FUCK YES for CG licensed in France <333333333333

Edit : Suzaku's hate died when he joined Lulu though, Sky.

C.C. : Oh that's fine. I came to hate the KaGino pairing cause it was shipped by trolls back in the good old days. And even today, many KaGino shippers just give me headache.
Now they aren't all like that but well, the pairing is killed for me anyway.

Last edited by Lolipopo; 2009-05-13 at 12:12.
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Old 2009-05-13, 12:00   Link #19090
incorrupts
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CC View Post

The Code Geass Image Thread is the topic I'm most active in and I'd have to agree with yvj. While there were a few days where that a larger-than-usual amount of Kallen pictures were posted, it wasn't that bad. There were still other posters around - such as myself, yurihime, Sonae and others - posting images of different characters just as frequently. However, I will say there tends to be more discussion around the Kallen images sometimes, as users like Lolipopo, incorrupts and Kakashi are - obviously - Kallen fans and also like to make discussion.** That's fine as long as the thread stays more image than discussion, but I do realize that it makes the Kallen images stand out more to those that aren't fond of her.

** I'm not saying the other images aren't discussed, so don't get me wrong, just that with Kakashi dumping Kallen images, more discussion about her came along, and there were some pro-Kallen/Lelouch images that might've left the wrong impression for some people.

Well, if we want to be fair, that has happened with a lot of C.CxL images in the past as well. It is just, not as lengthy as flippy's, mine and Loli's are. As long as we are not getting off-topic, that is totally acceptable. So, we can all get along. 8)

Quote:
Originally Posted by CC View Post
Now, about the character. I liked Kallen throughout the first season, I only found myself disliking her near the end R2. I didn't full-blown hate her or anything like that. Then, in the last few months, I continuously ran into Kalulu fans who'd give me hell for the silliest of reasons (eg. Using the name C.C.), and honestly it was hard not to be frustrated toward the character in general after that. I 100% agree with anyone who says the Kalulu fanbase has been hard to tolerate lately. I only recently met a Kalulu fan (here on AnimeSuki) that responded to me in a sane-non-explosive manner - and honestly, it shouldn't have taken that long.

My point in close is that Kallen fans, particularly Kalulu fans, have actually managed to make me hate Kallen at times. Take what you will from that, I'm expecting responses that tell me that this is ridiculous or nonsense, but it's simply how I feel and there's nothing wrong or ridiculous about it. If Kalulu fans were a little more rational, and well... friendly, I wouldn't have such a problem with it.

No offence to any of the Kalulu fans around here, chances are I've never met you. My direct experience with Kalulu fans were in places other than AnimeSuki.
There is nothing wrong, with disliking a fictional chara, that is your right. I suppose, i am mostly "ehhh?", when someone says "i adored this chara/series/ship but fandom ruined it for me!11" <--honest? I mean, whoever says this, was never really into it, from the first place. Fans is a mere formality-excuse.
But since you said, that you were mostly neutral towards her, i think i can understand where you are coming from.
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Old 2009-05-13, 12:26   Link #19091
yvj
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CC View Post
If Kalulu fans were a little more rational, and well... friendly, I wouldn't have such a problem with it..
Good way to to make friends.

Here's the deal this can easily be said to other members of fandoms.

ZOMG I should hate the crap out of C.C the way CluCLu fans have acted. Do I hate the character no, she has a nice ass.

For example I was on LJ explaining this apparently controversial poster I made. This random poster literally told me to F off. Which forced me to snidely mock her intelligence and belittle her reading comprehension. Because I'm so cool like that.

No I didn't want it to start off that way. I wasn't looking for a fight. But I don't have to put up with nonsense just for some phony friendliness, that doesn't exist because people say one thing here and run to LJ or the social club and say something else.

Then they are people acting like "oh they are so aggressive wah wah" and they drop into the romance thread with some condescending claim with nothing to back it up and then wonder why someone calls them out on it.

Spoiler for 80% of the time:



ag·gres·sive Listen to the pronunciation of aggressive
Pronunciation:
\ə-ˈgre-siv\
Function:
adjective
Date:
1824

5 a: When a person argues on the internet for hours and manages to outlast his opponent or backs the opponent into a corner he is thus deemed aggressive by the opponent.
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Old 2009-05-13, 14:59   Link #19092
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@yvj and sky: Okay, bad example. My point was that sometimes people get a little discouraged when they see an inordinate amount of Kallen discussion going around. And it doesn't have to just be the Image thread. I hadn't even thought of all the C.C. pics on the thread, thus revealing my biased view on it.

BTW, Awesome, very in depth post Meatrose.
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Old 2009-05-13, 15:20   Link #19093
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nobodyman9 View Post
@yvj and sky: Okay, bad example. My point was that sometimes people get a little discouraged when they see an inordinate amount of Kallen discussion going around. And it doesn't have to just be the Image thread. I hadn't even thought of all the C.C. pics on the thread, thus revealing my biased view on it.

BTW, Awesome, very in depth post Meatrose.

Alright, and i will raise my flag "so, what? -forum-democracy-everyone entitled to their own opinion".
I will admit the obvious thing, that lately, certain sections, have been "dominated" by fans, that do favor Kallen/Kalulu, but does this mean anything? It is just, this time of the year. A few months ago, C.CxL, were around. In the future, there might be something else.
There is still variety though, it is just, that the Kalulu ones, are the most vocal. Again, everyone has got a mouth to use, but at times, it seems to me, that this "mouth" is only used bitching about the Kalulu overdose, when Kalulu fans, use their mouths to spazz over their ship, or w/e else. You see posters, that BARELY post, and their only contribution, is "yeah, this is Kalulu fans for you, do not expect anything else in this sub-forum.!!11"
I am sorry, but using the famous Pulp Fiction quote "did we break your concentration?"
I do not think so, use your head-mouths guys, it is democracy, do not make it seem, like there is Kalulu monarchy.
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Old 2009-05-13, 16:15   Link #19094
yvj
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BTW I missed it the first time but applause to Meatrose for this.


Spoiler for Max epicness:


Much Lulz and so I approve.

Quote:
Originally Posted by incorrupts View Post
I do not think so, use your head-mouths guys, it is democracy, do not make it seem, like there is Kalulu monarchy.
And here I was thinking it was more a thousand year Dynasty
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Old 2009-05-13, 16:31   Link #19095
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that IS pretty funny
but its also the reason people call us agressive
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Old 2009-05-13, 16:36   Link #19096
SonOfHeaven
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@Meatrose: Great post.

For the life me, I don't understand how someone could hate an character just because of an very small amount of the character's fans act(Its not like its the entire fanbase). If that was the case, I should hate C.C after those PMs I received in the past for example. I just don't buy that. Along with Kallen/Kalulu fans bashing C.C or Shirley unless its an obvious joke(Which people shouldn't take pictures seriously). Using the staff words isn't bashing to me. I remember when Kallen's poem was released, someone stated Kallen is stupid on lj and no one responded back to that(funny). That's bashing to me.

Maybe its because I don't take all these instances seriously or what not(except crack of course). I remember during S1, I wasn't into the romance for CG. I thought Lelouch being with C.C or Shirley would be predictable(no offence). When I saw Kallen getting developed, I thought it'll be interesting.

I don't recall the members here posting bashing on C.C or Shirley in an debate at all.
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Old 2009-05-13, 17:25   Link #19097
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SonOfHeaven View Post

Maybe its because I don't take all these instances seriously or what not(except crack of course). I remember during S1, I wasn't into the romance for CG. I thought Lelouch being with C.C or Shirley would be predictable(no offence). When I saw Kallen getting developed, I thought it'll be interesting.

I don't recall the members here posting bashing on C.C or Shirley in an debate at all.
Lol, i have always thought, that with Kallen was way more predictable. Since she did spend a lot of time with him {granted Zero persona but still} Actually, "predictable" is a matter of definition.
I suppose, the most predictable, would be C.C, and near the end of S1, i thought they were gonna get romance-developed in the second season, but alas. {and i do not mind lol}

eta Son about bashing: no, actually i did bash C.C once. It was when i got my first ban, i pretty much called her...well, "fed up with sex"-something. lol //it was mostly joke to reply to some troll, but oh well. And actually, there was bashing, those days, generally. //though strictly speaking, i had back up from episode 15, and certain faces but anyway, not the appropriate topic.
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Old 2009-05-13, 17:31   Link #19098
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I guess for myself. I thought since C.C spent more time with Lelouch(gave him his power to fight) along with Shirley being crush turned love. I thought those two in my eyes were predictable. With the ending of S1, Kallen's development toward Lelouch could have gone different ways. Lelouch pretty much summed up that long as Japan gets liberated. She shouldn't have an problem being used or lied to.

So you did bash C.C one time. At least you didn't bash her day in and day out like people do to Kallen's character. Which I saw on an few websites awhile back.
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Old 2009-05-13, 17:31   Link #19099
Kid Ying
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Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Rio
I do get C.C's point about starting to hate something because of the fans. It's not that common for me, but i certainly started to hate a couple of series and characters because of rabid fans, and i mean, TRULY rabid, not like everything i've saw here in AS(but once again, i did not see how was this board when CG was airing, maybe it was something like that with some faction or another). When you simple don't care that much, it's easy to transfer the anger you have for a fan to the character or series he love.

Ah, the shipping in code geass that Meatrose posted was just EPIC LULZ
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Old 2009-05-13, 17:34   Link #19100
incorrupts
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Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Greece
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kid Ying View Post
(but once again, i did not see how was this board when CG was airing, maybe it was something like that with some faction or another). When you simple don't care that much, it's easy to transfer the anger you have for a fan to the character or series he love.

But this is the point, neutrality can turned into negativity, at times. Not when you do favor someone though, it is, idk, the way i see it, you never really liked the chara much in the first place.

And the other point, is, that there is a mantra that was going {still} around that "Kallen is a..well, not a nice girl because her fans are aggressive" <--makes no sense, whatsoever. Oh well, each one rolls differently.
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