AnimeSuki Forums

Register Forum Rules FAQ Members List Social Groups Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Go Back   AnimeSuki Forum > Anime Discussion > Older Series > Code Geass

Notices

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 2009-05-30, 14:19   Link #19641
bladeofdarkness
Um-Shmum
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: at GNR, bringing you the truth, no matter how bad it hurts
Age: 30
you mean in the END ?
after he died ?
i dont think she'd let up until she learned the truth (given that he was killed by ZERO)
but i dont think jaded and cynical as much as confused and unsure of herself
__________________
bladeofdarkness is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2009-05-30, 14:27   Link #19642
azul120
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Quote:
Originally Posted by bladeofdarkness View Post
you mean in the END ?
after he died ?
i dont think she'd let up until she learned the truth (given that he was killed by ZERO)
but i dont think jaded and cynical as much as confused and unsure of herself
Alright then.

What if it was someone aside from "Zero"?

One thing about it is that Lelouch didn't seem to have it in mind for Kallen to piece it together.

Heck, judging from Nunnally figuring out the truth in the most unexpected of ways, and her subsequent reaction, I don't think Lelouch really gave a single thought to what the people closest to him were to make of it all.
azul120 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2009-05-30, 14:31   Link #19643
Nobodyman9
Banned
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: U.S.A.
Age: 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by azul120 View Post
Alright then.

What if it was someone aside from "Zero"?

One thing about it is that Lelouch didn't seem to have it in mind for Kallen to piece it together.

Heck, judging from Nunnally figuring out the truth in the most unexpected of ways, and her subsequent reaction, I don't think Lelouch really gave a single thought to what the people closest to him were to make of it all.
I've thought the same thing about Lelouch's lack of consideration, but in the end it was neither her nor there since he was fully committed to ZR. But really, as long as they were alive I guess that's what mattered to Lelouch.

Anyway, as far as your question, if it was someone else besides Zero. Like, maybe if it was someone more obvious who killed him like Schneizel, or a rogue Black Knight, or an assassin, well I'd say she probably would've gotten the jaded cynical ending as well. Point is, she had to see Zero kill Lelouch to get the full story and see the truth.
Nobodyman9 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2009-05-30, 14:37   Link #19644
azul120
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Yeah. If it was Schneizel, I think it would be a complete OMGWTFBBQ moment for everyone, unless someone found out he was Geassed into doing it, and I'm not sure who outside of Suzaku (who I'm sure would have still killed himself to the world) would be able to tell.
azul120 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2009-05-30, 14:40   Link #19645
bladeofdarkness
Um-Shmum
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: at GNR, bringing you the truth, no matter how bad it hurts
Age: 30
assuming that she never found out the truth and didnt understand that everything lelouch was after in the final arc was for the better of the world
i'd think she'd either be a jaded cynic
or spend her life wondering what the hell happened

and either way, she'd probably have very little self confidence after that
after all, she would have had to come to face to face with the fact that she had somehow managed to fall in-love with the single worst human being in the history of the world
that she had known perfectly well about his geass, his position as a britannian prince and all the horrible things he had been resposible for
and that she had chose to not only keep following him in the wake of learning all those things
but she had also HIDDEN those facts from her friends and allies
and all this becouse she wanted to believe in him rather then see him for what he really was (again, this is assuming she doesnt learn the truth)

many people fall for someone who is wrong for them
but to be able to be THAT bad as a judge of character
had she not found out that he really WAS what she had believed him to be
i'd say that she'd have real problems believeing in herself
__________________
bladeofdarkness is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2009-05-30, 14:49   Link #19646
Nobodyman9
Banned
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: U.S.A.
Age: 26
^Hmm, well when you put it that way blade. Kallen had already more or less given up on life after Naoto died and was waiting for her number to be up while fighting to liberate Japan. If this happened to her, after having discovered a second chance and a new hope and then have it dashed away from her, I'd say she'd be a prime candidate for suicide.
Nobodyman9 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2009-05-30, 14:51   Link #19647
Frostfire
No Eyes
 
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Dirac Sea
I would say that if she hadn't pieced everything together, and say someone other than Zero had killed Lelouch, her life would have gone in a downward spiral because she has no answer to any of her questions. The "live on" line is still hanging in the air with no explanation to her if she doesn't piece together ZR and understand what Lelouch wanted.

I'm of the opinion that either she would have eventually pieced it together anyway, Lelouch gave her enough hints or at least far more than for any one else because she has many questions left hanging over him that don't fit into "evil douche". She can't be stupid and not realize just how much of an asset she would have been to him if he had used her. So to err on the side of optimism, I'd say she would have deduced it anyway if he ended up dying and the same events unfolding. (Otherwise, ZR doesn't make a whole lot of sense.) (Then again, this still brings to question how overly-perfect all of ZR was to the point of nausea.) But if she didn't figure it out, then with those questions parading inside her head, I'd say she'd have broken down and had serious mental issues, the least of which would be doubt in herself and humans, severe cynicism.

But when you think about it like that, I'd say Lelouch must have been banking on her understanding him at the end. Because otherwise, his wish for her to live on just turns out to be some sadistic ass-move to have her suffer for the rest of her life while he's laughing in Hell.
__________________
One day I got bored and decided, I write stories for fun, why not let other people read what I write? Maybe they'll have fun with it too.
Frostfire is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2009-05-30, 14:52   Link #19648
bladeofdarkness
Um-Shmum
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: at GNR, bringing you the truth, no matter how bad it hurts
Age: 30
its not simply that she was wrong about lelouch and that she died becouse of it
its that she was wrong about lelouch, and the entire WORLD would pay the price for it
all her friends would die
and all the world would live under the boot of an evil overlord
all becouse she wanted him to be what he wasnt
i'd expect he to be an emotional mess
__________________
bladeofdarkness is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2009-05-30, 14:53   Link #19649
incorrupts
Banned
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Greece
Age: 26
Send a message via MSN to incorrupts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nobodyman9 View Post
^Hmm, well when you put it that way blade. Kallen had already more or less given up on life after Naoto died and was waiting for her number to be up while fighting to liberate Japan. If this happened to her, after having discovered a second chance and a new hope and then have it dashed away from her, I'd say she'd be a prime candidate for suicide.
I do not think so, she would still have her mother to take care of, after her promise in Stage 9. She would just be crushed and forever disappointed when it came to Lelouch/Zero but i do not believe, she would ever go as far as killing herself.
Not a chance, Kallen is a fighter, not a survivor.
And anyway, these speculations and personal interpretations cannot be taken with much validity, since well, it did not end up that way. 8D
incorrupts is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2009-05-30, 14:56   Link #19650
bladeofdarkness
Um-Shmum
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: at GNR, bringing you the truth, no matter how bad it hurts
Age: 30
thankfully.
of course lelouch could have made it easier for her to understand the plan
maybe in some scene that was deleted
maybe one that contained a certain line
that has something to do with gum
__________________
bladeofdarkness is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2009-05-30, 14:58   Link #19651
incorrupts
Banned
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Greece
Age: 26
Send a message via MSN to incorrupts
Quote:
Originally Posted by bladeofdarkness View Post
thankfully.
of course lelouch could have made it easier for her to understand the plan
maybe in some scene that was deleted
maybe one that contained a certain line
that has something to do with gum


Oh, the heart of the matter. 8D
I see what you did there, i do see clearly, young padawan. |DD
Btw, someone in LJ told me, that the last edition of ZR will get narrated from Shirley, Rolo and Nunally, certain events that concerned them. Should we hope, for any extra Kallen scene too, or am i being the most optimistic person here? 8D
incorrupts is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2009-05-30, 14:58   Link #19652
Nobodyman9
Banned
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: U.S.A.
Age: 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by incorrupts View Post
Not a chance, Kallen is a fighter, not a survivor.
Yeah, I never understood that. What's the bloody difference?

Quote:
And anyway, these speculations and personal interpretations cannot be taken with much validity, since well, it did not end up that way. 8D
Have you been to the Shirley thread recently? We've been discussing what it would've been like if Shirley got cyborg enhancements like Jeremiah XD

EDIT: Ooh, I'm very interested in that Nunnally, Rolo, and Shirley narration (ah, who am I kidding, I just care about Shirley :P) Well, I guess that explains why the three of them were on the cover.
Nobodyman9 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2009-05-30, 15:02   Link #19653
bladeofdarkness
Um-Shmum
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: at GNR, bringing you the truth, no matter how bad it hurts
Age: 30
survivers go with the flow just to live on their own lives
fighters stand up against the conditions even if it means death becouse they cant accept the way things are

its the whole "better to die on your feet then live on your knees" bit
kallen's a fighter
and her hate for her mother came from believing mistakenly that she was mearly a surviver
__________________
bladeofdarkness is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2009-05-30, 15:10   Link #19654
Nobodyman9
Banned
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: U.S.A.
Age: 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by bladeofdarkness View Post
survivers go with the flow just to live on their own lives
fighters stand up against the conditions even if it means death becouse they cant accept the way things are

its the whole "better to die on your feet then live on your knees" bit
kallen's a fighter
and her hate for her mother came from believing mistakenly that she was mearly a surviver
Hmm, I see. Well, in that case I really don't think it's a matter of being a fighter or a survivor. If Kallen never found out what Lelouch's true intentions were I suppose she could spend the rest of her life trying to figure out his intentions or cope with it (fighter) or she could have just accepted it, lived with the dissappointment and tried to move on (survivor) If she was to commit suicide I don't think it would be very characteristic of a fighter or a survivor. But that's just my way of thinking of it. You probably have a better understanding of it than I do.
Nobodyman9 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2009-05-30, 15:11   Link #19655
incorrupts
Banned
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Greece
Age: 26
Send a message via MSN to incorrupts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nobodyman9 View Post
Yeah, I never understood that. What's the bloody difference?
It is how i categorize fiction-characters, according to their reactions, similar to what Kallen went through.
It is like, when life kicks them around, and beats them up there comes a day, when they do realize they are not survivors, but they are fighters. They are warriors.
That day, was the day Zero got into Kallen's life. And she brought in her, the tough side, that she can resist, anything being thrown her way and most importantly, to kick it back. Rejoice, victory spirit chavos! 8D
incorrupts is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2009-05-30, 15:13   Link #19656
bladeofdarkness
Um-Shmum
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: at GNR, bringing you the truth, no matter how bad it hurts
Age: 30
i dont know about killing herself
but i do think she'd be more or less a complete emotional and mental mess after that
since, as i have already said before, not understanding that she WASNT wrong about lelouch
means that as far as she knows, the entire world almost paid the price for her stupidity in believing in lelouch
__________________
bladeofdarkness is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2009-05-30, 16:15   Link #19657
Kid Ying
Pon pon pon
 
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Rio
Quote:
Originally Posted by incorrupts View Post
[/B][/U]

Oh, the heart of the matter. 8D
I see what you did there, i do see clearly, young padawan. |DD
Btw, someone in LJ told me, that the last edition of ZR will get narrated from Shirley, Rolo and Nunally, certain events that concerned them. Should we hope, for any extra Kallen scene too, or am i being the most optimistic person here? 8D
Well, i hope, maybe we'll get an insight to Kallen and Nunnally's conversation(maybe we even get to hear about Naoto!

I don't know about Rolo... Since he was CRAZY, i can't imagine a decent narration from him. It must be like "Ah, that bitch with red hair is trying to steal my brother! Argh, it's the other bitch with green hair! Nunnally? ARGHHHH"
Kid Ying is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2009-05-30, 16:35   Link #19658
incorrupts
Banned
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Greece
Age: 26
Send a message via MSN to incorrupts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kid Ying View Post
Well, i hope, maybe we'll get an insight to Kallen and Nunnally's conversation(maybe we even get to hear about Naoto!
Yeah sure, we did not got the official gumline, we would get this? I suddenly feel like playing a lost game or something. 8D

Honest though, i would like for someone to ask Okouchi/Taniguchi about that. And it is not about Kallen {no wait it is, lol, no srsly} it is about releasing something, and then totally getting it back. Like, having in the preview of an epi, certain scenes that you never get to see. Pushing back-forward, fans are getting somewhat hazy. 8D
incorrupts is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2009-05-30, 17:44   Link #19659
Betteroffer
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
I am also of the opinion that Kallen would not opt for suicide. Despite the death of Naoto and the belief that her mother didn't love her, she didn't opt for suicide then, at least not in the classical sense but more the "Suicide by Cop" trope. She wanted death, we know that, but she wanted it to be a death that meant something. With her mother alive, and knowing she had someone who did love her, I believe Kallen would definately try to stay alive to be with her.

Beyond that, I could see her either as the jaded cynic and emotional mess if she never got ZR.

People have been saying that Lelouch never intended for Kallen and Nunally (or ANYONE) to understand ZR (very likely, but is there a Word of God on this?), but this discussion, as Frost said, makes Lelouch seem sadistic if he knew Kallen as well as he did, and never intended for her to understand ZR. Perhaps he believed she would be able to put it behind her, and believe in the 'spirit' of Zero, rather than the man underneath? She did say early on that she refused to see him and Zero as one person, and he knew she'd been able to push through some pretty harsh experiences in her life before.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bladeofdarkness View Post
you mean in the END ?
after he died ?
i dont think she'd let up until she learned the truth (given that he was killed by ZERO)
but i dont think jaded and cynical as much as confused and unsure of herself
I actually started wondering why the core BK who knew Lelouch was Zero didn't do this.

The whole message they should have got from Zero was that they had been screwed over by a masked psycho and they let it happen simply because he got them results. It took them nearly two years to see it (and from outside sources rather than personal deduction), but this new Zero has done all that in his first appearance.

ZeroZaku Killed the old Zero and, rather than turn to the BK and said "Zero is the symbol of the UFN, take the outfit and elect the 'true' successor since for all I know, you all knew Zero and would have a line of succession set up," he turned around and said "Nunally I killed your brother, let me be your bodyguard/nanny forever, even though as Zero I should be a symbol of opposing evil systems, rather than suddenly subordinating myself to the very empire I have been fighting since my creation."

Beyond this, there's the implications that the UFN has effectively lost its rallying point and symbol to Britannia, and this Zero has very quickly made his way into power by effectively being the new Empress' Knight of One.

And the core BK just rolled over and said "Eh, we got Japan back, it's not our problem?" They didn't think "Hey wait, this seems like a familiar situation that hurt us very very badly in the past?" It seems to me that they had personal and pragmatic reasons to demand knowledge of this new Zero's identity, or at least to demand he relenquish the 'Zero' name and be some other masked nanny (Maid Guy Suzaku perhaps?). I know that it would have screwed up ZR, but realistically why didn't this come up?
Betteroffer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2009-05-30, 17:53   Link #19660
SonOfHeaven
Metal Gear!?
 
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Tampa
Quote:
Originally Posted by incorrupts View Post
[/B][/U]

Oh, the heart of the matter. 8D
I see what you did there, i do see clearly, young padawan. |DD
Btw, someone in LJ told me, that the last edition of ZR will get narrated from Shirley, Rolo and Nunally, certain events that concerned them. Should we hope, for any extra Kallen scene too, or am i being the most optimistic person here? 8D
If that's true, that will be interesting. About Kallen, I doubt it. Though, I wouldn't mind knowing what Kallen wanted to ask Lelouch back at turn 7 before she saw him about to use refrain.
__________________
SonOfHeaven is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 04:29.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
We use Silk.