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Old 2011-10-21, 12:26   Link #4861
azul120
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Originally Posted by Yamiken View Post
Except for the fact that at the time of the first season finishing, the plans for the second season, such as they were, were vastly different; certainly, they didn't include a timeskip or Lelouch losing his memories. So even if the kiss at the end of season 1 was retconned into being what you say, it can't have been meant that way at the time; I personally prefer to regard it as having nothing to do with that.

As for Lelouch regaining his memories, I reckon C.C. could've accomplished that with any sort of contact. Why a kiss? For the same reason as the first, of course! That and fanservice. Wait, that is the same reason as the first. Nevermind.

Jokes aside, I do believe that C.C. has the ability to negate Geass. Possibly all Code-holders do, but C.C. almost certainly. Why? Well, recall Jeremiah. Now, his cybernetic components are all very nifty, but remember what the original purpose of his modifications was stated to be? To artificially produce a being like C.C.. That's where he gets his immunity to Geass from... yet somehow he's also gotten a Geass-canceller added to the mix. How can that be? Well, seems pretty natural if that was one of the abilities of C.C.'s that Bartley and his scientists were trying to replicate. Now, clearly it doesn't work in quite the same way; C.C. seems to need contact to do just about anything, whilst Jeremiah's Geass-canceller works at some considerable range. On the flip-side, Jeremiah doesn't seem to have gotten in on any of that immortality business, even if he is clearly incredibly tough to kill. (That said, even if he were immortal or even just had good regenerative capabilities, that would explain how he too was able to survive being plunged to the bottom of the ocean at the end of season 1.)

Code Geass has always been frustratingly coy with details of how the Code works. All we really know about it is the following: it makes its bearer immortal (of the regenerating sort), it makes him or her immune to Geass, it gives him or her the ability to grant Geasses, and it can be transferred to one such grantee who has used his or her Geass enough for the sigil to have activated in both eyes, though the mechanics of this transfer are maddeningly unclear (it seems that the Geass-user is the one who must initiate the transfer, but is that really the case? How does the transfer itself work? What does it look like? Does the former immortal begin to expire immediately afterwards, or are they just mortal again, to die like any other human? Both immortals seen to lose their Code (V.V. and the nun) have died soon afterwards, but this seems to be of natural wounds...). That's it. It's never stated that they have no other abilities (though we do know that they lose their Geass), and certainly V.V. seems to accomplish some very strange things during season 1 (Kaminejima, anyone?), even if that is with the help of the Thought Elevator. Who's to say that negating Geass isn't something they can do? Or that they don't have unique abilities, and that negating Geass happens to be something C.C. can do? It's all left very open, but that's my interpretation of things.
C. C. cannot negate geass. The kiss is almost like a memory backup, having to do with C's world I guess. As SonOfHeaven stated, it came from a magazine.
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Old 2011-10-21, 13:00   Link #4862
Yamiken
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All very well you stating that she can't. I still stand by my reasoning that she can.

And as a philosopher with a keen interest in epistemology, I'd be most ashamed of myself if I took at face value a sketchy citation to a magazine scan that the citors can't even find. Still, even if that is what it says, I'm a proponent of Death of the Author anyway, so I'm free to ignore that~ You can believe it if you want, though. Each to their own interpretation of a work of art.
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Old 2011-10-21, 15:50   Link #4863
azul120
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If she could negate geass, Lelouch would have used it to his advantage.
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Old 2011-10-21, 16:38   Link #4864
Yamiken
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You forget that C.C. doesn't tell Lelouch everything about her by any means. Besides, how could he have used it exactly? He's never particularly wanted to lift one of his own Geasses on someone, with one very important exception for which C.C. was incapacitated anyway (I'm sure I don't need to tell you when that was). The only other exceptions are instances when he's wanted to Geass someone again whom he's Geass'd in the past, but those have been pretty few and far between too, and usually in a pinch when he doesn't have C.C. on hand anyway. So that all for him. There are then only three other people whom he knows to have Geass: Mao, who dies early on and whose Geass isn't the sort you can negate anyway, Rolo, whom Lelouch converts to his side relatively soon (and whose Geass is short-term and therefore of limited use in negating anyway) and Charles, whose victims Lelouch isn't really aware of once the Geass on him is lifted (there's Nunnally, but as I say, he wasn't aware of that until the very end; when he did know about it, he had Jeremiah on his side anyway, so evidently he didn't feel the need to lift any Geasses either way). So whilst yes, if C.C. did tell him about it he may well have used it to his advantage at some point, I don't think those circumstances ever cropped up in either series. Unless you had some specific occasion in mind?
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Old 2011-10-26, 22:49   Link #4865
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One thing that bothers me, plot-wise: is it accurate to say that in order to get C.C. to come back to Charles to complete Ragnarok, Marianne had to suggest the best way other than using Charles to kill her would be to find Lelouch and give him enough power to do so?

If not, exactly how did Marianne and Charles expect to arrange for C.C. to seek them out again? That's always confused me...
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Old 2011-10-26, 22:58   Link #4866
Yamiken
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Well, that would be...

... uh, that's...

...

... come to think of it, I don't really know either. Charles and Marianne's actions are... probably one of the haziest parts of the series (particular in R2). They seemed to be using Lelouch as some sort of bait... except that beyond the Order members in the first episode, they never seemed to make any attempt to nab C.C.. Admittedly, they in theory didn't know that Lelouch had rendezvoused with C.C., but you'd have thought the fact that all the people they'd dispatched to capture C.C. suddenly vanishing, presumed dead, would've clued them in...

Then there's the fact that Marianne, as she was disappearing, still seemed to believe, somehow, that C.C. was really still buying into the entire plan. Charles seemed to demonstrate a similar attitude earlier on. You really do have to wonder what was going on in their heads. Maybe someone else has a convincing explanation for all this? Because I'm stumped here.
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Old 2011-10-29, 16:43   Link #4867
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Lelouch was bait for C.C. in R2 because he was someone whose Geass had developed well enough that he might have eventually become a potential Code candidate. Since C.C.'s goal was death, she would by necessity be drawn to people who could gain complete control of their Geass, such as Charles.

C.C. went into hiding (though keeping in contact with Marianne through some sort of telepathy/World of C link) after Marianne was assassinated. Charles/Marianne needed C.C.'s Code to activate the Ragnorok Connection, so their goal was just to discover C.C.'s whereabouts at all. Lelouch's brainwashing and surveillance was for that purpose, because they knew that Lelouch's geass was connected to C.C.. Regardless of whether Lelouch started up his rebellion again, so long as C.C. was hanging around him, Charles and Marianne knew that they would find her eventually.
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Old 2011-10-29, 16:59   Link #4868
geewhiz
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That does not explain why C.C. went into hiding, why she remained in hiding, and why she chose Lelouch. Was she only biding her time, waiting for Charles to become a stronger Geass-user?
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Old 2011-10-29, 17:38   Link #4869
Sol Falling
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I don't remember too much about why C.C. went into hiding, but it probably has something to do with the fact that her only real connection to the plan was through Marianne. C.C.'s real desire/goal was death, so Lelouch (and Mao I guess) were simply the results of C.C. searching for other candidates. C.C. wasn't just biding her time waiting for Charles, I think she was serious about making Lelouch strong enough to take the Code from her, however she simply (at least initially) accepted Charles offer when he made it because her goal was just to die anyways, so it didn't matter who did it.
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Seasonal enjoyment ratings:
Stardust Crusaders 80/5 :: Sailor Moon Crystal 20/5 :: Hanayamata 28/5 :: Locodol 50/5 :: Yama no Susume 100/5 :: Sabagebu 28/5 :: Momo Kyun Sword 11/5
Fall:
Sora no Method 20/5 :: Karen Senki 8/5 :: Cross Ange 1/5
God-tier yuri oneshot mangaka: Minase Ruruu
Yuri Precure otaku manga: Shinozaki-san ki wo ota shika ni
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Old 2011-10-29, 20:28   Link #4870
geewhiz
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Well Charles specifically mentioned the Brittannia vs. Black Knights war as bait for C.C. so I don't think it's as easy an explanation as you (or I) might have thought it to be...
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Old 2011-10-30, 00:56   Link #4871
GundamFan0083
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Originally Posted by geewhiz View Post
Well Charles specifically mentioned the Brittannia vs. Black Knights war as bait for C.C. so I don't think it's as easy an explanation as you (or I) might have thought it to be...


This is what CC's wish was.
It wasn't to die, it was to be truly loved as clearly explained in episode 15.
Lelouch was the one who promised to fulfill her true wish.
So while CC was bait at first, in the end she wound up finding the person who could fulfill her deepest desire...to truly be loved.
You can guess who it was that fulfilled that desire.
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Old 2011-10-30, 23:34   Link #4872
azul120
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Originally Posted by Yamiken View Post
You forget that C.C. doesn't tell Lelouch everything about her by any means. Besides, how could he have used it exactly? He's never particularly wanted to lift one of his own Geasses on someone, with one very important exception for which C.C. was incapacitated anyway (I'm sure I don't need to tell you when that was). The only other exceptions are instances when he's wanted to Geass someone again whom he's Geass'd in the past, but those have been pretty few and far between too, and usually in a pinch when he doesn't have C.C. on hand anyway. So that all for him. There are then only three other people whom he knows to have Geass: Mao, who dies early on and whose Geass isn't the sort you can negate anyway, Rolo, whom Lelouch converts to his side relatively soon (and whose Geass is short-term and therefore of limited use in negating anyway) and Charles, whose victims Lelouch isn't really aware of once the Geass on him is lifted (there's Nunnally, but as I say, he wasn't aware of that until the very end; when he did know about it, he had Jeremiah on his side anyway, so evidently he didn't feel the need to lift any Geasses either way). So whilst yes, if C.C. did tell him about it he may well have used it to his advantage at some point, I don't think those circumstances ever cropped up in either series. Unless you had some specific occasion in mind?
Al little late in responding here, but if C. C. could have negated geass herself, she could have done that with Euphie herself, if not soon enough to prevent the massacre, but still to make it so that Lelouch wouldn't have to kill his sister.
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Old 2011-10-31, 09:01   Link #4873
rinichan
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I dont think CC could just give Geass to anyone there must be people destined for it like this...
episode 1


that also leads CC to think that Suzaku is destined to have Geass (my theory only)
episode 22


But its not CC the one to give Suzaku the geass, if the he's alive theory is canon it may have been Lelouch to give Suzaku Geass....
r2 final episode
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Old 2011-10-31, 10:50   Link #4874
Yamiken
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Originally Posted by azul120 View Post
Al little late in responding here, but if C. C. could have negated geass herself, she could have done that with Euphie herself, if not soon enough to prevent the massacre, but still to make it so that Lelouch wouldn't have to kill his sister.
Would that really have been kinder, though? If the Geass on Euphie had been lifted after the massacre began, she would've had to live with the consequences of her actions - even though she wasn't responsible for them. The world would have despised her as a maniac, her dream would've been in ruins, it's entirely possible there would've been some sort of political or legal retribution against her... she wouldn't have lost everything, but she'd still have a lost a whole lot. Her life would practically be over. And she herself would be caught between horror at what she did and revulsion at being mind-raped the way she was (whether or not said mind-rape was intentional). Hell, I honestly wouldn't be surprised if she'd wound up having to be sectioned with in a year if she'd survived; how traumatising would it have been for someone like her to have to live with the knowledge that, in her right mind or otherwise, she set off one of the worst massacres in history and effectively denied the country she'd tried to help any chance of independence in the near future save through a bitter and bloody struggle of the sort she'd wanted to prevent? No, at the point that Lelouch decided to kill her, doing so was a mercy regardless of whether or not the Geass could've been lifted. Likely C.C. came to the same conclusion, and so it would've been very easy just to abide by the highly secretive instincts she'd had to cultivate over her very long lifetime.

Also, something else I just thought of: if the kiss at the end of season one was some sort of "memory backup", as you say, then how would Lelouch be able to remember anything that happened after that when his memories were restored, if it weren't Charles' Geass being lifted? For that matter, how would Lelouch's own Geass be restored, given that this seems to be a separate aspect of Charles' Geass power? If it were just, 'C.C. took an imprint of Lelouch's memories, then restored them to him later', he shouldn't have been able to remember his confrontation with Suzaku or his father; he should've had a mental blank where that was. So I don't see how the kiss can work that way.
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Old 2011-10-31, 18:46   Link #4875
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Originally Posted by rinichan View Post
But its not CC the one to give Suzaku the geass, if the he's alive theory is canon it may have been Lelouch to give Suzaku Geass....
r2 final episode
<image snip>
I always assumed that when he said "geass" in that line, he meant it in the term of the actual, real-world meaning of a "geas/geis," an inescapable doom. The kind that killed Cuchulain. Even within the context of the show this would make a sort of sense: Suzaku was accepting a command. This wasn't forced on him, but one with which he agreed and willingly took on.
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Old 2012-01-04, 03:19   Link #4876
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Well, I believe that C.C lacked emotion for Lelouch in season 1, her primary objective was his survival, she needed someone to kill her, yet during the first Black Rebellion, she started showing signs of feelings for Lelouch, after R2 when Lelouch became emperor, it became clear that she had a lot of feelings for him and began to retrieve her lost humanity again.
The fact that she's immortal means she's lost all forms of humanity, yet she slowly started to regain it during the series, also the fact that the only person who loved her turned out to be using her (the nun) she stopped trusting people, but with Lelouch she grew closer to humanity, that said...she's pretty hot xD
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Old 2012-02-15, 11:51   Link #4877
DarkyPwnz
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How about an immortal couple,Lelouch having gained the Code somehow,perhaps from Charles and now C.C has a reason to keep on living. Together they could open their own pizza shop or something while Suzaku (serves him right) tries his ass off fighting new criminals (because crime and bad intentions will never stop) or even nations.

Explains why Nunnally gets the little dramatic slideshow when she touches Lelouch at his last moments,but if he indeed is alive,he is a great con artist.
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Old 2012-02-16, 21:12   Link #4878
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That would make him a huge karma houdini for all the people he ended up killing for Zero Requiem.

But that's a different topic.
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Old 2012-02-17, 03:12   Link #4879
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Al little late in responding here, but if C. C. could have negated geass herself, she could have done that with Euphie herself, if not soon enough to prevent the massacre, but still to make it so that Lelouch wouldn't have to kill his sister.
LOL C.C. can't do that with Euphemia because Euphemia was never under the control of that eye thing or whatever that is, the fact was her plan was to eradicate all Brittanians and she pretended to be affected and she and Lelouch are not even related!

I think C.C. is an okay character.
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Old 2012-02-18, 03:23   Link #4880
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LOL C.C. can't do that with Euphemia because Euphemia was never under the control of that eye thing or whatever that is, the fact was her plan was to eradicate all Brittanians and she pretended to be affected and she and Lelouch are not even related!
Truly a scholar of our time.
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