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Old 2008-05-30, 22:09   Link #621
Omega Zero
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Narona View Post
In the flashback about her past during EP25, if I recall correctly, she was also guillotined.

Now I wonder, was the guillotine only used in France????
In Germany too!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guillot...outside_France

And about the topic, C.C. surely have her role on Code Geass history, many things about her are still hidden, like:

- What is her true name(though i think that we will never know that).

- What was the contract that she made with Lelouch, we just know that she need him alive for that which is the same as nothing.

- Her history, what is her relation with V.V., what Charles meant about
Spoiler for Charles line:
, what exactly C.C. is doing when she talks with Marianne and maybe a thing or two that i forgot right now.

Resuming . . . her real importance on the series is still hidden and will probably be one of the last things to be unrevealed, but so far, with what we have, just because she was the one who gave Lelouch the Geass, her role is quite big already.

Last edited by Omega Zero; 2008-05-30 at 22:21. Reason: Forgetting the topic! :P
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Old 2008-05-30, 22:13   Link #622
Dann of Thursday
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Who said I was certain? I hoping to whatever higher power there may be that everything I think and say is wrong.

Alright, the Geass plotline is important to the plot to some degree, but the rebellion will always be the main point of this series. And the whole thing with Geass isn't likely to get any answers or explanations until near the end of the show. And since C.C.'s character and development is restricted to that plotline, she isn't of any importance at all until we arrive at that plotline near the end. She could just stand around and do nothing until we get to around episode 19 or 20. The fact that her role is restricted to that small part of the series unlike all the other characters, barring V.V. and perhaps Charles and Marianne.

Look at anything that somewhat developed C.C. to some degree in season 1. Every moment there involved the Geass in some fashion with something about it being revealed. Except maybe all that Pizza Hut stuff, but that was non serious and unimportant. Now, if this were like season 1 then maybe they could just feature more involving her later in some upcoming episodes of they chose to, but they aren't from the looks of things. They have also been developing more of the other characters and having them take much more prominence in the plot like Kallen as well as some of the new characters like Rolo.

What has C.C. done of any importance in R2? The most amount of screentime and development she may have gotten came in episode 1 with episode 5 coming in second probably. Other than waking Lelouch up, the only thing she has done of importance was telling Lelouch about V.V..

Now, most of the other characters are not involved with the Geass plotline at all, but they at least are involved with multiple other sub plots as well as the main one. C.C. is restricted to the Geass plotline alone and she can not develop as a character or do anything really without something being revealed about either Marianne or the Geass.
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Old 2008-05-30, 22:23   Link #623
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You see, there is actually a method to Dann's pessimism with Lelouch and Kallen or C.C. If C.C. ends up with Lelouch then Dann gets the pairing he wants, but if its Kallen then he can say to everyone "I told you so".

Even though hearing endless pessimism can get old real quick.
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Old 2008-05-30, 22:28   Link #624
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Omega Zero View Post
- What is her true name(though i think that we will never know that).
It's soooo Elizabeth. For one, that's a sexy English name; for another, that fits the mouth movement and syllables spoken in that "speak my name again, you pretty boy" scene; and finally, while Western audiences might be a bit confused on the ease of recognizing this name and second-guess themselves, I don't think Elizabeth is a name that is particularly prominent in the Japanese imagination.

Oh, and just before anyone asks, of course I don't know the truth but I'm confident enough to bet my imaginary internet honour on it.

And why the hell is Firefox spellcheck insisting that "honour" is a wrong spelling? Bigots.
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Old 2008-05-30, 22:31   Link #625
Omega Zero
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I think that the main point of this series is about Lelouch's attempting revenge on his father for not doing a thing to save his mother or to help Nanaly! Since Lelouch started it all to make an world that Nanaly can live peacefully.

The rebellion was/is just a tool for that, sure he did noticed that this is not his fight alone anymore in the last episodes, but it still is his personal feelings/goals that drive him, it's not like he really care about Japan freedom, he just need an army to fight Britannia, it's nothing more than a "coincidence" that this will also result in the freedom and reraise of Japan.

Because of that, i think that C.C., even if she is having little screen time, is still a big piece on the history itself! She is the main heroine after all! :P
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Old 2008-05-30, 22:34   Link #626
Kang Seung Jae
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Irenicus View Post
for another, that fits the mouth movement and syllables spoken in that "speak my name again, you pretty boy" scene; [/SIZE]
I've watched the scene several times, and I still can't see how that works.
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Old 2008-05-30, 22:41   Link #627
Narona
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kang Seung Jae View Post
I've watched the scene several times, and I still can't see how that works.
Neither am I

Quote:
Originally Posted by Omega Zero View Post
In Germany too!

- What is her true name(though i think that we will never know that).

- What was the contract that she made with Lelouch, we just know that she need him alive for that which is the same as nothing.

- Her history, what is her relation with V.V., what Charles meant about
Spoiler for Charles line:
, what exactly C.C. is doing when she talks with Marianne and maybe a thing or two that i forgot right now.

Resuming . . . her real importance on the series is still hidden and will probably be one of the last things to be unrevealed, but so far, with what we have, just because she was the one who gave Lelouch the Geass, her role is quite big already.
Thanks about the guillotine, so she was in France or Germany =p

Yeah, still to be revealed. maybe i'm wrong but I think the second half of the show will be about her and the geass plot, and about how Lelouch will deal with her and all of that.
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Old 2008-05-30, 22:47   Link #628
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Originally Posted by Omega Zero View Post
In Germany too!
Germany is just ONE example. A more correct statement would be Northern Europe.
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Old 2008-05-30, 22:50   Link #629
Omega Zero
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I didn't paid that much attention to the scene where she said her name, and i work with animation so i'm a bit unsure if we can trust her lips movement, but who knows . . .

I, somehow, think that the history will not end in this season . . . :3

Apart from C.C. stuff, there are a lot of things that are still in the darkness, dunno if 18 episodes will be enough for all of that, season 2 even added some new mysteries of its own.

But very probably, this Geass/C.C. plot will be the last thing to be unrevealed.
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Old 2008-05-30, 23:01   Link #630
Dann of Thursday
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blue_Mercy View Post
You see, there is actually a method to Dann's pessimism with Lelouch and Kallen or C.C. If C.C. ends up with Lelouch then Dann gets the pairing he wants, but if its Kallen then he can say to everyone "I told you so".

Even though hearing endless pessimism can get old real quick.
I'm not enough of a jackass to do all that in the event it's Kallen. Besides, I probably won't be able to stand the endless gloating that at least a few Kallen fans would engage in. Most of you all hate me already. Either way, I lose to some degree. Even if LelouchXC.C. did somehow happen, I've gotten myself so depressed about the whole thing that I probably wouldn't be able to enjoy it all. And if it's Kallen I'll just feel depressed. Either way I'll probably just end up feeling empty inside like always.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Irenicus View Post
It's soooo Elizabeth. For one, that's a sexy English name; for another, that fits the mouth movement and syllables spoken in that "speak my name again, you pretty boy" scene; and finally, while Western audiences might be a bit confused on the ease of recognizing this name and second-guess themselves, I don't think Elizabeth is a name that is particularly prominent in the Japanese imagination.

Oh, and just before anyone asks, of course I don't know the truth but I'm confident enough to bet my imaginary internet honour on it.

And why the hell is Firefox spellcheck insisting that "honour" is a wrong spelling? Bigots.
Honestly, the name is too plain and common. I'm expecting something a bit more unique myself along with how I don't buy that whole Elizabeth III theory at all. And there are quite a few names that can fit in with those mouth movements. It could end up being that, but I'm not convinced.

Because it's spelled honor?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Omega Zero View Post

I, somehow, think that the history will not end in this season . . . :3

Apart from C.C. stuff, there are a lot of things that are still in the darkness, dunno if 18 episodes will be enough for all of that, season 2 even added some new mysteries of its own.

But very probably, this Geass/C.C. plot will be the last thing to be unrevealed.
If you think there will be a season 3 or something, it is highly doubtful.

We can just have all the answers be revealed in connection with one another in the last few episodes if need be.
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Old 2008-05-30, 23:13   Link #631
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But hasty endings tend to be crappy!!!

And I, together with everyone here i presume, don't want to see an crappy ending for CG!!! >.<

Of course, i may be having over-expectations for the series, but this is just the much that i like this show!


The Elizabeth thing is funny, even more if it ends being true!!!

But i also expect some name more . . . pompous and . . . fitting for C.C. character! Though i have no idea of what kind of name could fit her!
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Old 2008-05-30, 23:47   Link #632
Dann of Thursday
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Who said doing that would be hasty? They could do it in a way that it does not feel hasty at all.

And Elizabeth doesn't make sense for me for several reasons, though the only one I'll state right now is that I don't think Lelouch would pronounce that name oddly like C.C. said he did. It isn't a hard name to say, especially since he is a Britannian.

I expect we'll hear the name at sometime though I don't know when or how. I'd like to hear Lelouch say it again, but I'm not too hopeful on that happening.

I also never got the comments by the staff about the name either.
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Old 2008-05-30, 23:57   Link #633
Esper 28
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Originally Posted by Dann of Thursday View Post
Alright fine. The Green Knight and Morgan weren't exactly good in any real way, though no one on this show really is either I guess.

I haven't seen much to suggest she is affecting events to the level you appear to be suggesting honestly. She has had little to no involvement with any of this at all currently except for the first episode and how she has actually told Lelouch about V.V.. She hasn't done anything much at all really. If you'd like to point out some specific ways she has been affecting things, then please enlighten me.

And I don't do with this with everyone and everything. Neither do I disregard everything else as you suggest.
Personally, while I'm not expert on Arthurian tradition, I wouldn't go as far as to say Morgan le Faye was evil or anything. You're right to say that she's not necessarily good, but I don't think she fits into the evil category. And the Green Knight is symbolic of a lot, and I do mean a lot, of things, but he's certainly not evil.

Anyway, ask and you shall receive. I shall "enlighten" you, though I would never use a word like that to describe giving examples to support my opinion. First of all, there is the big and obvious connection of the Geass. The Geass impacts Lelouch, Rolo, V.V., and Charles (Mao is in there somewhere, too). That is a common thread between all of them and, as a result, shows that C.C.'s story, in some way, affects them. Let's not dismiss the fact she speaks to Lelouch's mother and while that is a bit of a mystery, Lelouch's mother is a HUGE piece of Lelouch's story and her being able to speak with her puts C.C. right in the middle of that plot. I am just going to list two of the major and more obvious things for you, I'll just have to hope that suffices as enough "enlightenment" for you.

I also think you're looking at everything at face value, which doesn't surprise me considering your clever ability of seeing, hearing, and reading what you want. C.C.'s influence on events doesn't come right out and smack you in the face, they're hidden from us, the viewers. Obviously, this is speculation and there are no hard facts to back up the idea that she's affecting things, but one could logically infer that. Just as, I suppose, someone could logically infer that C.C. doesn't matter to the story...of course, that would probably be the same as someone who was reading the play Macbeth and saying, "Oh, that Macduff...he doesn't really matter anymore!" But then at the end of the play, you're blown out of your seat because Macduff is the one who takes Macbeth out.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Blue_Mercy View Post
Even though hearing endless pessimism can get old real quick.
I whole-heartedly agree with you there, dude.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Irenicus View Post
It's soooo Elizabeth. For one, that's a sexy English name; for another, that fits the mouth movement and syllables spoken in that "speak my name again, you pretty boy" scene; and finally, while Western audiences might be a bit confused on the ease of recognizing this name and second-guess themselves, I don't think Elizabeth is a name that is particularly prominent in the Japanese imagination.

Oh, and just before anyone asks, of course I don't know the truth but I'm confident enough to bet my imaginary internet honour on it.[/SIZE]
Honestly, I don't think it's Elizabeth, because that would just seem kind of drab. It's not wrong nor right, it's just kind of like, I dunno. I've never really been able to produce a solid argument against it being Elizabeth other than trying to time what the animation mouths with an actual word is sort of ridiculous. I still think she's like, Morgan le Faye or something and the name Lelouch said was like, Morgan or Morrigan. However, like I said, there is totally no wrong or right answer at this point.

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Originally Posted by Kang Seung Jae View Post
I've watched the scene several times, and I still can't see how that works.
I'm with you, I don't think the animation is a trustworthy indicator. When people talk about the animation as a source, I can't help but think of when they were filming Star Wars: The Empire Strikes Back. When they were filming the ending, they told the guy playing Vader to say his lines normally, but told Mark Hamil what the real lines were. So, everyone on the production staff thought Vader was saying one thing and when the movie came out, they were all like, "Whooooaaa!!"

It's a funny story and I think it relates...okay, maybe not.

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Because it's spelled honor?
Sometimes, when you post, I have to remind myself that you're only like, 12 years old.
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Old 2008-05-31, 00:04   Link #634
Kang Seung Jae
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The most important thing about the Elizabeth: If that's a theory among us, then we should throw it down the drain.


The Japanese pronounciation of Elizabeth is different from English.
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Old 2008-05-31, 00:32   Link #635
Dann of Thursday
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Originally Posted by Esper 28 View Post
Personally, while I'm not expert on Arthurian tradition, I wouldn't go as far as to say Morgan le Faye was evil or anything. You're right to say that she's not necessarily good, but I don't think she fits into the evil category. And the Green Knight is symbolic of a lot, and I do mean a lot, of things, but he's certainly not evil.

Anyway, ask and you shall receive. I shall "enlighten" you, though I would never use a word like that to describe giving examples to support my opinion. First of all, there is the big and obvious connection of the Geass. The Geass impacts Lelouch, Rolo, V.V., and Charles (Mao is in there somewhere, too). That is a common thread between all of them and, as a result, shows that C.C.'s story, in some way, affects them. Let's not dismiss the fact she speaks to Lelouch's mother and while that is a bit of a mystery, Lelouch's mother is a HUGE piece of Lelouch's story and her being able to speak with her puts C.C. right in the middle of that plot. I am just going to list two of the major and more obvious things for you, I'll just have to hope that suffices as enough "enlightenment" for you.

I also think you're looking at everything at face value, which doesn't surprise me considering your clever ability of seeing, hearing, and reading what you want. C.C.'s influence on events doesn't come right out and smack you in the face, they're hidden from us, the viewers. Obviously, this is speculation and there are no hard facts to back up the idea that she's affecting things, but one could logically infer that. Just as, I suppose, someone could logically infer that C.C. doesn't matter to the story...of course, that would probably be the same as someone who was reading the play Macbeth and saying, "Oh, that Macduff...he doesn't really matter anymore!" But then at the end of the play, you're blown out of your seat because Macduff is the one who takes Macbeth out.

Sometimes, when you post, I have to remind myself that you're only like, 12 years old.
I wasn't entirely familiar with the Green Knight story until your whole theory and he didn't seem to have any aspect about him that could really be viewed as good. Morgan is somewhat ambiguous, but most of the time she seemed to be more of an antagonist than anything else with no good intentions to speak of.

That affects things involving the Geass, but not everything in the plot. It's not like she causes the events that lead to the actions of other characters besides Lelouch.

You really, really dislike me, don't you? I don't look at everything at face value. Half the time I don't bother posting my entire thoughts on a matter because I automatically assume I am wrong or that everyone will just disagree with everything I am saying. I wouldn't say C.C. is affecting much else than Lelouch in this show, which is indeed important I suppose.

Um, where did that come from? It's true that "honour" is a spelling I've seen before, but the one I'm more familiar with is "honor". I didn't mean that comment to be mean or insulting and I certainly don't see why it automatically causes me to be on the level of someone 6 years younger than me.
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Old 2008-05-31, 00:48   Link #636
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kang Seung Jae View Post
I've watched the scene several times, and I still can't see how that works.
It's how my eyes saw it.

And yes, that was without me knowing about an "Elizabeth III theory," whatever that was. In fact, I didn't know there was a fan controversy around it either. I just saw the episode and thought that was it. Didn't think much into it myself.

You brought up a good point though; I have to remind myself that the Japanese have their own way of butchering English pronunciation, and Madame le Fay could be saying her name the Engrish way for all I know.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Esper88
Honestly, I don't think it's Elizabeth, because that would just seem kind of drab.
Eh, I disagree. Elizabeth is a cool name, also conducive to all sorts of pretty nicknames (Liz, Lizzie, Eliza, Elise, etc.). It's regal enough too; I mean, there are queens of that name in the world...

^is obviously a fan of Pride and Prejudice, which stars the best Elizabeth ever.


Honestly though, you guys don't need to worry much about my opinion. It's not like I'm setting it in stone or anything, and she could be named Jeanne-Antoinette Marie, Duchesse d'Anjou or something like that for all I know.
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Old 2008-05-31, 02:14   Link #637
Esper 28
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Originally Posted by Dann of Thursday View Post
I wasn't entirely familiar with the Green Knight story until your whole theory and he didn't seem to have any aspect about him that could really be viewed as good. Morgan is somewhat ambiguous, but most of the time she seemed to be more of an antagonist than anything else with no good intentions to speak of.
You're right to say that Morgan le Faye is, more often than not, portrayed as an antagonist. However, I think it's important to look at who she's constantly acting as a foil to: King Arthur. I realize Charles does not, by any means, constitute what a King Arthur persona would be, but he is the man in power, the king. If you looked at Morgan le Faye as a person who wants to bring down the king, this persona is easily applicable to C.C. -- if and only if that is her true goal, however that portion of the story is so convoluted and unexplained that something like that is pure conjecture.

As for the Green Knight...he's much harder to interpret. He challenges Arthur initially, but doesn't lash out at him in anger or hate. The Green Knight stands as a challenge to Arthur and his knights, but not a true enemy.

With that in mind, the fact that the Green Knight is a creation of Morgan le Faye brings her motives into question. Does she want to destroy Arthur or does she simply want to dethrone Arthur? If it is merely the latter, she is very easily applicable to C.C. Not only that, but it makes one wonder, "Is Morgan le Faye evil?" Well, the supporters of Arthur would think so, but if you were on the short end of the stick, well, you see my point.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dann of Thursday
That affects things involving the Geass, but not everything in the plot. It's not like she causes the events that lead to the actions of other characters besides Lelouch.
I mean, besides the show's title, which seems to emphasize an importance on the Geass, you're right, not everything involves the Geass. However, you have to wonder what the significance is that Lelouch and Charles are both wielders of the Geass. Additionally, both Charles and Lelouch have V.V. and C.C., respectively. It could easily be construed that perhaps V.V. and C.C. are manipulating Lelouch and Charles to go against one another. If you looked at it from that perspective, it would seem that C.C. and V.V. would both be having a heavy hand in what's going on in the Code Geass universe, especially since they've been around for an unknown number of years. Who knows what kind of hand they've had in creating the modern world of Area 11?

That's just it. C.C. has been around for a long, long time and she has the ability to grant a normal person an unmeasurable amount of power. When she gives someone the Geass, at what point does her hands become free of guilt? At what point does that Geass user's actions become his and his alone? Look at it this way, a thug on the street shoots an innocent woman. Do you solely blame the man who shot the woman or do you blame the thug AND the person who sold him the gun illegally? Of course, they are both to blame, but wouldn't eliminating the seller have a bigger impact? Look at the Geass as a gun and ask yourself when it is that you disconnect the Geass power with C.C. and start putting the blame squarely on its user.

That's enough of that for now, I feel like I'm rambling.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dann of Thursday
You really, really dislike me, don't you? I don't look at everything at face value. Half the time I don't bother posting my entire thoughts on a matter because I automatically assume I am wrong or that everyone will just disagree with everything I am saying. I wouldn't say C.C. is affecting much else than Lelouch in this show, which is indeed important I suppose.
You're right, I don't care for you. Perhaps part of the reason for that is because you don't "bother posting [your] entire thoughts on a matter". Why do you bother posting if you're not going to form a complete and cohesive thought? That's just asinine, man. I have to ask, but in life, do you often speak without completing a full thought? And, if so, do you often get people ignoring you and/or looking at you as if to say, "What are you talking about?"

Bottom line: You need to think before you post and take other people's thoughts into consideration.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dann of Thursday
Um, where did that come from? It's true that "honour" is a spelling I've seen before, but the one I'm more familiar with is "honor". I didn't mean that comment to be mean or insulting and I certainly don't see why it automatically causes me to be on the level of someone 6 years younger than me.
Listen, if you're 18 years old then the public school system failed you.

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Originally Posted by Irenicus View Post
Eh, I disagree. Elizabeth is a cool name, also conducive to all sorts of pretty nicknames (Liz, Lizzie, Eliza, Elise, etc.). It's regal enough too; I mean, there are queens of that name in the world...

^is obviously a fan of Pride and Prejudice, which stars the best Elizabeth ever.
Duuude! Elizabeth is an awesome name. Don't even joke! I want to name my first kid Elizabeth. When I said "drab", I meant for the story. I know Queen Elizabeth III is a big part of Code Geass history, but I just don't think it would fit well in the story.

Yeah, man, Elizabeth is an amazing name. I'm told that I'm not allowed to call any child "Betsy" if her name is Elizabeth because that's a, "cow name". I immediately counter with "Betts", but I'm still told that is unacceptable. The world is against me on that one it seems...
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Old 2008-05-31, 10:25   Link #638
Dann of Thursday
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Originally Posted by Esper 28 View Post
You're right to say that Morgan le Faye is, more often than not, portrayed as an antagonist. However, I think it's important to look at who she's constantly acting as a foil to: King Arthur. I realize Charles does not, by any means, constitute what a King Arthur persona would be, but he is the man in power, the king. If you looked at Morgan le Faye as a person who wants to bring down the king, this persona is easily applicable to C.C. -- if and only if that is her true goal, however that portion of the story is so convoluted and unexplained that something like that is pure conjecture.

As for the Green Knight...he's much harder to interpret. He challenges Arthur initially, but doesn't lash out at him in anger or hate. The Green Knight stands as a challenge to Arthur and his knights, but not a true enemy.

With that in mind, the fact that the Green Knight is a creation of Morgan le Faye brings her motives into question. Does she want to destroy Arthur or does she simply want to dethrone Arthur? If it is merely the latter, she is very easily applicable to C.C. Not only that, but it makes one wonder, "Is Morgan le Faye evil?" Well, the supporters of Arthur would think so, but if you were on the short end of the stick, well, you see my point.

I mean, besides the show's title, which seems to emphasize an importance on the Geass, you're right, not everything involves the Geass. However, you have to wonder what the significance is that Lelouch and Charles are both wielders of the Geass. Additionally, both Charles and Lelouch have V.V. and C.C., respectively. It could easily be construed that perhaps V.V. and C.C. are manipulating Lelouch and Charles to go against one another. If you looked at it from that perspective, it would seem that C.C. and V.V. would both be having a heavy hand in what's going on in the Code Geass universe, especially since they've been around for an unknown number of years. Who knows what kind of hand they've had in creating the modern world of Area 11?

That's just it. C.C. has been around for a long, long time and she has the ability to grant a normal person an unmeasurable amount of power. When she gives someone the Geass, at what point does her hands become free of guilt? At what point does that Geass user's actions become his and his alone? Look at it this way, a thug on the street shoots an innocent woman. Do you solely blame the man who shot the woman or do you blame the thug AND the person who sold him the gun illegally? Of course, they are both to blame, but wouldn't eliminating the seller have a bigger impact? Look at the Geass as a gun and ask yourself when it is that you disconnect the Geass power with C.C. and start putting the blame squarely on its user.

That's enough of that for now, I feel like I'm rambling.


You're right, I don't care for you. Perhaps part of the reason for that is because you don't "bother posting [your] entire thoughts on a matter". Why do you bother posting if you're not going to form a complete and cohesive thought? That's just asinine, man. I have to ask, but in life, do you often speak without completing a full thought? And, if so, do you often get people ignoring you and/or looking at you as if to say, "What are you talking about?"

Bottom line: You need to think before you post and take other people's thoughts into consideration.

Listen, if you're 18 years old then the public school system failed you.
I certainly agree that Charles is not anything like Arthur. He's more of the opposite really. Yet, I haven't seen all that much to suggest that C.C. personally wants to take him down. I've seen a few hints that this is what Marianne may want for her son though, which sort of makes her look rather cruel and manipulative for putting all this on her son. C.C.'s involvement with the American rebellion seems to suggest she wasn't thinking of dethroning anyone, much less Britannia which did not exist at that point. I suppose the fact that she appears to have been involved in rebellions and wars does suggest something though.

From the outline of the story, I'd agree that it's hard to read him. Despite that him causing all the perils that befell Gawain as making him appear to be more sinister than anything else, one has to wonder why he did all that. The entire thing seemed like a test I guess. Of course, if a lot of what happened to Lelouch was simply C.C. testing him, then things would not likely end on a good note with them.

Why dethrone Charles though if that were the goal? What does she possibly gain out of it? If C.C. was someone like Morgan, it's also possible that the legends and history regarding whoever she was were not all that accurate.

I suppose one very well could consider that true, though I'm still not entirely convinced that the whole point of this is that those two are working against one another. Most of Charles' actions do appear to be centered around the Geass and the whole plan he and V.V. have, but I'd think that Charles must get something out of all this. I suppose you could say becoming the leader of a country and coming to take control of 1/3 of the world and more would be his reward though. Of course, being simply a manipulator doesn't make C.C. look very good from any perpective.

I'm also not convinced that C.C. and V.V. have been around for the same amount of time. This is just a feeling, but I think C.C. has actually been around for a lot longer. V.V. is certainly her enemy in R2, but I don't quite think that her wish has that much to do with V.V.'s plan. Also, back in season 1 C.C. didn't seem to regard V.V. as an enemy all that much. She seemed to regard him as an annoyance at best, but not like now. V.V. had never done anything to directly interfere with Lelouch and C.C. and thus make himself an enemy until the finale of season 1. Of course, since those ruins activating in 19 are the main cause for Lelouch's Geass going permanent, I suppose one could say V.V. was interefering there as well. I'm not sure if C.C. was aware entirely of what had happened, though her reaction in 22 does suggest she was expecting the Geass to go permanent yet not that soon.

I suppose the main problem with C.C. at the moment is that she is keeping a lot from Lelouch and that makes her very questionable in her motives since actually telling Lelouch more could in fact help him quite a lot in what he has to do. I suppose the fact that C.C. is starting to be a little more forthcoming is a good sign, but she still is keeping a lot from him. I was a little surprised when Lelouch wasn't at all angry that she had kept the info on V.V. from him when it was clear she had known for a while.

That is a rather hard question to answer and mainly depends on one's own viewpoint. One could argue that all C.C. does is give the power, but that she has no control over what that person does with that power. For instance, all the people Mao killed as well as him going insane could be blamed partly on her since she gave him the Geass and such. Yet C.C. did attempt to avoid Mao becoming the way he became. She simplt failed in that regard though. With Mao, I certainly don't think she is not to blame because she is. I just don't put the blame squarely on her. Mao is somewhat responsible for his own actions even in his state of mind as is Lelouch.

I don't do this with all my posts. And no I do not speak without completing a thought. That would be a rather idiotic thing to do. No, I don't often have people ignore me or look at me in the way you described either.

How did it fail me?
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Old 2008-05-31, 12:37   Link #639
Var
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Not to intrude, but I thought I'd bring up a few things.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Esper 28 View Post
I realize Charles does not, by any means, constitute what a King Arthur persona would be, but he is the man in power, the king.
If you look at what they stand for and what their empires stood for, they are polar opposites to the T. If you want to make an Arthurian comparison, you can do it more easily by comparing Lelouch to Arthur, Charles to the old Monarchy, C.C. to the Lady of the Lake, and Geass to the Sword Excalibur. Lady of the Lake, however, isn't much better than Morgan La Fey within the story as she is the one who raises the man who ultimately brings down Arthur. That being a story/myth/legend about destiny, it seems like she is the impartial weaver, so to say.

Quote:
As for the Green Knight...he's much harder to interpret. He challenges Arthur initially, but doesn't lash out at him in anger or hate. The Green Knight stands as a challenge to Arthur and his knights, but not a true enemy.
I'm curious what you'd say if I were to compare Suzaku to the Green Knight. Especially given the information floating around that his abilities are not natural. Therein, much like the created Green Knight, one could argue that Suzaku was also created to challenge Lelouch.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Dann of Thursday View Post
C.C.'s involvement with the American rebellion seems to suggest she wasn't thinking of dethroning anyone, much less Britannia which did not exist at that point. I suppose the fact that she appears to have been involved in rebellions and wars does suggest something though.
C.C.'s involvement in the American Revolution can swing any number of ways. For all we know, she could have been the one to change Benjamin Franklin's views into betraying the Americans. To little information to say for sure whether or not she acted against, for, or with no affiliation to the empire.
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Old 2008-05-31, 13:17   Link #640
Kaioshin Sama
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Irenicus View Post
It's soooo Elizabeth. For one, that's a sexy English name; for another, that fits the mouth movement and syllables spoken in that "speak my name again, you pretty boy" scene; and finally, while Western audiences might be a bit confused on the ease of recognizing this name and second-guess themselves, I don't think Elizabeth is a name that is particularly prominent in the Japanese imagination.

Oh, and just before anyone asks, of course I don't know the truth but I'm confident enough to bet my imaginary internet honour on it.

And why the hell is Firefox spellcheck insisting that "honour" is a wrong spelling? Bigots.
Don't forget that it's also the Queen's name.

By the way, have any people noticed certain similarities between C.C and Tear from Tales of The Abyss. Not only do they share the same V.A, look similar (with an obvious difference in hair colour) and have a similar fashion sense, but they also share similar behavioural patterns like being ice cold at one moment, but having strange fascinations with things they find cute and certain foods.


Last edited by Kaioshin Sama; 2008-05-31 at 13:37.
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