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Old 2008-07-12, 00:36   Link #1101
Dann of Thursday
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Originally Posted by Orga777 View Post
And because he was the running joke character.



You see, THIS is where you will be wrong. She WILL have more to contribute to the story. Saying this is just ludicrous with no solid proof and THAT is what will get you lynched.
No, it was really because they liked him. I wouldn't call him a joke in 13, would you? They did like his Zero yell in 11 of season 1 though.

Depends on what sort of contribution. I can't think of anything really substantial for her to do and keeping her for the sake of revealing one tidbit of info is pathetic.

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Originally Posted by mayaramayana View Post
Well, the summary only says that the myseries of Geass are revealed in 15. It doesn't say: ALL mysteries
Most of them. We have scans of her as a child and of the things with Marianne and those will come up very soon. The only time it seems things will be happening anytime will be 15. That's all the mysteries.
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Old 2008-07-12, 00:40   Link #1102
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You tell me. Why keep someone with nothing to contribute? Why keep someone he will hate?



No I won't. I said they might as well just kill her. If they want to keep her around to advertise, let them.
You honestly think he's going to keep hating her until the end of the series, even though, truly, his rage should be going primarily to Rolo (which, it is, but, he's also blaming the fact Geass was what made it possible).

And she has things to contribute. Trying to point them out to you would be a waste of time.


No, you said why bother keeping her after most of the mysteries of Geass are shown, therefore, Orga punched you up on that with you being wrong if she still is (which is most likely).
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Old 2008-07-12, 00:43   Link #1103
Dann of Thursday
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You honestly think he's going to keep hating her until the end of the series, even though, truly, his rage should be going primarily to Rolo (which, it is, but, he's also blaming the fact Geass was what made it possible).

And she has things to contribute. Trying to point them out to you would be a waste of time.


No, you said why bother keeping her after most of the mysteries of Geass are shown, therefore, Orga punched you up on that with you being wrong if she still is (which is most likely).
He'll hate her in 14 because of his rage towards anything about Geass. Could her past bring sympathy? Possibly. Will he still feel bad for her once he learns she has lied to him and kept huge secrets about his mother from him? Doubtful.

I want you to. Please do so if you think there are some that are really that meaningful.

Yes I said that. I don't see the point of keeping her around. If they do, I doubt she'll contribute much at all.
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Old 2008-07-12, 00:48   Link #1104
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He'll hate her in 14 because of his rage towards anything about Geass. Could her past bring sympathy? Possibly. Will he still feel bad for her once he learns she has lied to him and kept huge secrets about his mother from him? Doubtful.

I want you to. Please do so if you think there are some that are really that meaningful.

Yes I said that. I don't see the point of keeping her around. If they do, I doubt she'll contribute much at all.

Just in 14 though
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Old 2008-07-12, 00:49   Link #1105
Dann of Thursday
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Just in 14 though
Just 14 what? That could carry over later and would likely increase. You think he won't be angry with her after learning about her and Marianne?
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Old 2008-07-12, 01:07   Link #1106
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Just 14 what? That could carry over later and would likely increase. You think he won't be angry with her after learning about her and Marianne?

But we won't know that until world of c
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Old 2008-07-12, 01:08   Link #1107
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Wow. *Checks watch* I seriously cannot believe how many posts have been made in the like, 24 hours I last browsed this thread. There is no way I can possibly comment on everything I read, but I would absolutely love to.

First, everyone needs to stop taking Dann so seriously. He's got his twisted thoughts set in stone and there's no way anyone is going to untangle them. He oozes negativity about everything. Just read over his posts and do what I do most of the time, just take a sip of whatever beverage you're drinking and then chuckle a little to yourself before moving on.

The one thing I really want to touch upon is the idea that's being tossed around that C.C. is a "useless" character at this point and, from the sound of some people (yeah, Dann is definitely one of them), doesn't deserve any screen time in R2. Well, to those people, I believe you are absolutely wrong.

C.C. is important to the story of Code Geass for numerous reasons. Many of which are significant and other reasons that are way less significant. Just for the moment, appease me by listening to some of my reasons for saying this.

The most important reason that C.C. is, well, important is because of her influence over Lelouch. Taking the whole Geass concept away and tossing it to the side for a moment, it's undeniable by anyone that C.C. doesn't have an influence on Lelouch. It seems that she sleep in the same quarters as he does and she's probably the only character who is truly comfortable around both Zero and Lelouch. Yes, Rollo and Villeta are somewhat comfortable about Lelouch out of his Zero persona, but I don't know how they would be with him in his Zero outfit. To be honest, I think Rollo's mind doesn't work in that capacity. I really think he would have trouble discerning Lelouch and Zero apart, if by the mask alone. But I digress. If Lelouch is on the fence over something and is really struggling with a choice, I think C.C. would have a very powerful voice on that decision. I also have a running theory that ties in with the Chess theory that was being bounced around a page back or so that deals with C.C. being a manipulator of A LOT. The fact she's almost like a puppeteer goes to the fact that she's the player, not the Queen. Going back to my comparisons between C.C. and Morgan le Faye. She manipulates and directs the currents of the story, even if her hand is invisible, it is surely felt.

In truth, and I put this out there expecting someone to contradict me, but I think C.C. has more of an influence on Lelouch than Kallen does.

My next reason for saying that C.C. is important to the story is because of the Geass. I know what Dann would have everyone believe that her portion of the Geass story is as dried up as a raisen that was left out in the sun for a month, but I disagree. She was the character that introduced us to the Geass power. She is the Geass giver that has spurred our protagonist forward throughout the entire series. Could the Geass plot continue without her? Possibly, but it would make things a hell of a lot harder for Lelouch. Keeping with the Chess analogy, this would be where C.C. acts in the Queen capacity. Her knowledge of all things Geass will be what helps Lelouch prevail once the meat of that story gets brought to the foreground. Sure, there will be things he will have to learn on his own, but there are certain things he must know going in and she is the only person that can provide them for him.

And frankly, I just have to flat out disagree with Dann (I keep saying Dann's name because whenever I go to refute a negative idea, his name is always associated with it in my mind). The Geass storyline will not be summed up in one episode and, I firmly believe, it will be the greater story than Lelouch's war against Britannia. In my discussions with Var, it dawned on me that yeah, Lelouch against the Empire is a big part of the Geass story, but that's not what this show's going to boil down to. No, it's going to be Lelouch against the "gods". And like I said earlier in this thread, I'm really starting to think the gods are heavily involved with the Geass storyline, which in turn involves C.C. and V.V.

Also, lastly, because like I said I can't talk about everything, I want to touch upon C.C.'s role in the Chess analogy more. Var was trying to explain it, but I think it may've been misunderstood or overlooked by some. Basically, and I agree with him wholeheartedly on the topic, C.C. is the Queen. For Ougi, for Toudou, for Kallen, for Larksharta (sp?), and for Xing-ke and for Knightmare Pilot #28, C.C. is Lelouch's Queen. She sits by him on the bridge of their ship, she co-pilots the Gawain with him, she sleeps in his quarters with him. Going along with the first reason why I think C.C. is still important. She influences him in the same manner a Queen would influence the King. To the people in the show, she is his Queen.

But from our point of view, from the analytical viewer's point of view, she is the player. She is the "invisible hand of fate" (Venture Bros. fans around here? Anywhere? No?) that spurs the Order forward, that spurs Lelouch forward. She manipulates her pieces through her King, which would be Lelouch. I can't stress the idea enough that she is manipulating events behind the scenes. She is purposely telling Lelouch some things while omitting others. C.C. has a goal and we may not know what the goal is, but she's definitely working slowly towards it.

Finally, I want to toss out a theory for everyone. What if C.C. and V.V. are working together? What if they both want to take down these "gods"? C.C. is clearly in communication with V.V. and Marianne (who could possibly be part of this plot, as well). I realize now I completely forgot to mention Marianne as a reason for C.C. being important, but I'm including it here now! Go me?!. Anyway, what if the two of them are manipulating their pieces (Go for more Chess analogy!) so that eventually, both the White pieces and the Black pieces will eventually turn against these gods? I really don't think it's that far fetched at all.

There's a lot we don't know about C.C. and I don't think it's fair to count her out of the story just yet. To do so, would be an error in rational thinking, I'd say.

P.S. Kudos to the person who mentioned that Kallen has become a Queen by graduating from Pawn! I said the same thing in the "Var/Esper Discussions". Heheheh. *Doesn't proofreads and just posts 'cause it's too long.*
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Old 2008-07-12, 01:10   Link #1108
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P.S. Kudos to the person who mentioned that Kallen has become a Queen by graduating from Pawn! I said the same thing in the "Var/Esper Discussions". Heheheh. *Doesn't proofreads and just posts 'cause it's too long.*
Unless she frees herself from being Lelouch's bitch and stands her own ground she would be a queen but for now she's just another one of his pawns
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Old 2008-07-12, 01:12   Link #1109
Dann of Thursday
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I wish they had made it so C.C. wasn't always viewed in such a negative light. I suppose they had to make her the heartless manipulator though.
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Old 2008-07-12, 01:15   Link #1110
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I wish they had made it so C.C. wasn't always viewed in such a negative light. I suppose they had to make her the heartless manipulator though.
But that's what makes her so popular uh
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Old 2008-07-12, 01:16   Link #1111
Dann of Thursday
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But that's what makes her so popular uh
Oh, right. I forgot that. That does explain a lot. Maybe some people are tired of good people like Kallen and want the truly despicable people to be more popular.

Really though, it isn't possible to say anything good about C.C.. All she oozes is negative vibes and evil. She is nothing more than some manipulative little witch who has ruined lives.
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Old 2008-07-12, 01:19   Link #1112
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Oh, right. I forgot that. That does explain a lot. Maybe some people are tired of good people like Kallen and want the truly despicable people to be more popular.

Really though, it isn't possible to say anything good about C.C.. All she oozes is negative vibes and evil.
she has a great ass
but besides that imagineliving for so long you get sick and tired of repeating the same process of life over and over again and hopefully episode 15 will shed some life on her past to get a better understanding but really her existence up to this point has been for pure fanservice
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Old 2008-07-12, 01:22   Link #1113
Dann of Thursday
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she has a great ass
but besides that imagineliving for so long you get sick and tired of repeating the same process of life over and over again and hopefully episode 15 will shed some life on her past to get a better understanding but really her existence up to this point has been for pure fanservice
That matters?

You become a monster which is what she is. Having a tragic past doesn't get you off scott free. She isn't probably much better than the people who have hurt her.

Ultimate justice for her would probably be for Lelouch to abandon her. Maybe shoot her a few times like Mao did. Then Charles and V.V. could find her. Maybe V.V. tortures her a bit and then they sacrifice her or something.

She had a sad past. Boo hoo. That gives her the right to manipulate, abandon, and toy with people like objects? My scenario is probably far too kind than what she deserves. Lelouch is a fool if he doesn't hate her. He finally woke up to the facts it seems.
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Old 2008-07-12, 01:54   Link #1114
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Your word is not law. You perceived the moment to be a plus point for C.C.. The chimp sitting at my side, however, thought of it as nothing more than a good target to fling its poo at. Me, on a more civilized side, saw the ED and said, "Interesting." And then moved on. I didn't see it a plus for C.C., just like I didn't see the Suzaku and Lelouch ED scene as a plus for SuzakuxLelouch.
Simply because others do not share your opinion does not make them wrong. One should welcome people to disagree as it spawns conversation and discussion. Blanketing something as 'clearly' only invites people to verbally disagree because they 'clearly' did not see what you did and simply start pouting matches.
I was just trying to show that it if it were Kallen and Lelou, people would have reacted differently. I did not say you were wrong. I am not going to add "In my opinion" before everything I post. If something is posted by me, it will be my opinion, unless stated otherwise. C.C. and Lelouch in the ED means nothing, but the crane Nunnaly throws in the in the OP is supposed to symbolize Kallen going free. You guys will see anything you want to. But when something is obviously there it is just "interesting", because obviously C.C. and Lelouch together in that picture don't mean anything. You just proved the point I was trying to make in my previous post.



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Yes, why? Because I didn't consider the Suzaku and Lelouch picture at the end as symbolising some sort of lovers affection between them. I'd be inclined to believe it more if, say, C.C. or Kallen were kissing Lelouch... and not molting.
And seriously, why bring Dann into this? His opinion has become about as respected as a led ball in a floating contest on Jupiter. It's there, you see, it makes loud splashes, but, ultimately, it sinks and is forgotten.
Oh, and a correction I must make, the prominence of the almost kiss scene was not the kiss scene, nor the scene. But the composure, words, and atmosphere (contributed by the ever so timely music) present. You are looking at everything only skin deep. Error 500! But, if you want, you can dismiss me as a hopeless fanboy with a dictionary and a thesaurus.
I didn't see it that way. To me it only showed that Kallen had feelings for him. So in that sense you are right. It had a romantic atmosphere, but it was one-sided.


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The truth is this is really the wrong thread. I can predict what will happen, so can anyone else. That doesn't mean they will be right, but a simple death or occurence does not stop everyone's ability of predicting. The spoiler thread is proof of that.
And to be perfectly frank, I do not think it can go either way anymore. I only see two possibilities at this point, and I do not expect anything to change my mind anytime soon. Feel free to disagree.
Yes I will disagree. Code Geass is famous for its twists so even if you don't expect anything different to happen, it probably will.




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What did I rip apart in my last post? I only saw me giving very sidelined comments about what people are saying.

But, since you insist, here I'll rip apart Asleep: (No I won't, just thought I'd reply.)



To be perfectly fair, all romance from any season from any perceived angle of reality has been from the females side. As for the declaration, it's hard to apply it to uninvolved characters and say the result would have been the same. I doubt it would have been. Kallen is(was) in serious danger from her predicament, what danger could possibly come to those you mentioned? I'm not calling it a declaration of love, as it would be stupid to do so, but it is the first instance in this season (and only one) where we saw Zero and Lelouch begin to mold into one person. If you haven't noticed, that's a pretty big theme in this season and has been getting developed mostly through Kallen's interaction with him.

And since I really love the word, it is a foreshadowing element. But take that as you will as I have no intention of going on a tirade about what will happen.
Lelouch screamed after Shirley died, but I didn't think it was because he was in love with her. Just as you said, Lelouch has become more er...human this season. He cares for his friends. It has been happening since episode 7. No not the Kallen scene. I mean the fireworks scene. Even after whatever Kallen told him, he had given up. He was happy to find the school "empty", as it would let him mope around. But then he saw his friends waiting for him, and realised there was still more in this world he could fight for. That, not Kallen, made him go back.


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Your logic failed/my brain exploded when you mentioned line counts. C.C. hasn't spoken since Kallen was captured (mostly) either. Heck, she hasn't spoken for most of this season. Does that make her not the main heroine either?

There is no main heroine in this Season as Kaguya made painfully obvious, as all women in Lelouch's life are important and have their own role. The main heroine is all of them.
I know C.C. has barely spoken. But I was referring to Dann's post (his posts still mean something to me, so I am not going to ignore them). He said Kallen is the main heroine. So I replied for a heroine, she has been awfully quiet lately. I did not say C.C. was the main heroine. I only said Kallen wasn't. I also thought there was no main heroine. That is what I was trying to show Dann, but you had to come misinterpret my post

As for foreshadowing...Lelouch saying he thinks snow is pretty to C.C. in Kallen's presence, or that he will turn into a warlock if C.C. is a witch, could also be viewed as such. And it's not even that subtle.




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No. I tend to beg people to not die when they are close friends of mine, doesn't mean that I want to jump in the sack with them or profess some sort of undying love. The grief of a moment like that can be perversely skewed and called love, but it can hardly be fairly or justifiably shown as such. What I call the moment with Lelouch is grief, extreme grief. But he has never shown actual signs of loving Shirley.
(Yes, I've lost a few friends to their mortal coils, as such, I find it fair to joke about it. So bite me.)
You are reading my posts all wrong I know. That was exactly my point. That is why Lelouch shouting to come and save Kallen, was also a friend promising to save a friend, nothing more. I gave the Shirely example to show that he cares a lot about his friends now.


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*Queue Evangelion TV Ending* You just made a good point. Congratulations. The only thing there is that Lelouch does know who he loves. Her name starts with an 'N' and ends with an 'unally'.
Nunnaly is his sister. I wasn't talking about brotherly love. I said it was unclear who he was in love with, or whether such a person even existed.



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A blade of grass was also in that scene, it must be pivotal to the plot too. If you want to say such nonsensical things, then you might as well make note of the fact that Lelouch met Kallen before C.C.. I'm seriously going to start arguing for Suzaku and Lelouch ending if you keep this up.

The blade of grass wasn't a person. Unless you plan to say Kallen transformed into the blade of grass Lelouch, Suzaku and Nunally were friends since they were small. And C.C. was also apparently present there. That is important to me. That makes me believe the writers won't kill them (as much as I am opposed to it *cough* Suzaku). Ultimately it is their story and they will be there till the end. Not that other characters have to die, so don't come and say I said that Kallen will be killed off That is how I see it anyway.



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Originally Posted by demon_god04 View Post
Just out of curiousity, how do you interpret the ed scene? I personally thought that the scene was a scene of separation due to the colours and imagery used but am interested in another opinion. For the record if it was Kallen instead of C.C there I would have the same interpretation
A very similar background was used for the Schneizel scene. So I didn't think it was a parting scene. She was crying. So I thought they were comforting each other...as partners. As in, they were there for each other. And I think, both are chained.


Var, your taking the time to respond to every point, made me want to ignore it rather than write back... I almost didn't reply, because it was so long...But I appreciate the way you "tear apart" each line

This discussion is meant for another thread, but oh well...

Last edited by Asleep; 2008-07-12 at 02:16.
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Old 2008-07-12, 01:56   Link #1115
Dann of Thursday
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She was changing into a bird and C.C. looks like she is longing to join the birds who are free. She said herself she is chained to this world. Now she is free and going away.
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Old 2008-07-12, 01:57   Link #1116
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She was changing into a bird and C.C. looks like she is longing to join the birds who are free. She said herself she is chained to this world. Now she is free and going away.
ROFL then everyone in the ED is a bird because everyone has wings! Hell, she didn't even have black wings like the black birds And look properly almost everyone is chained, including Lelouch. Just like ED1 They all have wings, and are chained. Maybe it means none of them are free and long to fly.
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Old 2008-07-12, 01:59   Link #1117
Dann of Thursday
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ROFL then everyone in the ED is a bird because everyone has wings! Hell, she didn't even have black wings like the black birds
No, they had structures that looked like wings behind them. She actually had them as a part of her body.
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Old 2008-07-12, 02:02   Link #1118
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No, they had structures that looked like wings behind them. She actually had them as a part of her body.
Wings are always a part of the body. Unless they are artificial. Others also have them but it isn't clear because of what they are wearing.
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Old 2008-07-12, 02:04   Link #1119
Dann of Thursday
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Wings are always a part of the body. Unless they are artificial. Others also have them but it isn't clear because of what they are wearing.
No, I mean that the wings you see with Schneizal and such are aspects of the background that are there to give the illusion they have wings. C.C. is the only one who clearly has the wings as a part of her body and it gives the impression that she is turning into a bird and being free, which is really sort of odd since she doesn't deserve it. Most people seem to believe this view on things.
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Old 2008-07-12, 02:12   Link #1120
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No, I mean that the wings you see with Schneizal and such are aspects of the background that are there to give the illusion they have wings. C.C. is the only one who clearly has the wings as a part of her body and it gives the impression that she is turning into a bird and being free, which is really sort of odd since she doesn't deserve it. Most people seem to believe this view on things.
I don't think so. She is still chained. Why does it matter to you what most people believe? Why can't you form an opinion of your own and stick to it?
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