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Old 2008-07-12, 14:21   Link #1161
Var
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Originally Posted by Asleep View Post
I don't think the OP is very reliable either. If it is, by the looks of it, Kallen is going to switch sides.
Where in the OP is this even shown? The Lancelot and Guren are shown facing off.

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But the way you understood things could be different from what they wanted to put across. Since we can only interpret things according to our perspectives, it may surprise us in the end. Not shock but a mild surprise is possible. Like if Lelou ends up with Suzaku or even Milly I'd be pretty shocked So that is not possible. The thing is, nothing is clear at all. It's is not obvious if it will be Kallen or C.C. It could be anybody or nobody. Shirley might come back from the dead for all we know.
So far, nothing that has happened in this show has surprised me, or caught me off guard. My point is that the show has never done anything outrageously out of the blue, everything has had adequate foreshadowing if you look for it. As such, it is unlikely that unforeshadowed things would occur.

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She did help him by throwing away the refrain he was going to take. But he was going to go after her because he hurt his friend by treating her so disrespectfully. He was snapped out of his lowly behaviour. He wanted to use her as an object; when she slapped him, he realised how he was behaving. But she did not give him reason enough to fight. Or Rolo wouldn't have been able to drag him back. He wasn't out of his depression until later, when he met his friends at the school. The whole glass dialogue is him realising he loves his friends and wants a better world for them. She did save him from taking the drug, but she did not give him enough reason to go on as Zero. He was back to his gloomy self, - although not as extreme as before, he was still wallowing in self-pity. It's important that she stopped him from taking the drug, but that in itself was not enough.
Did I ever say she snapped him out of his depression? I said that without Kallen nothing else would have occured, as such I believe you are belittling her role rather unfairly. She pulled him off his self-destructive path, that is all and that is what was important.

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The cave scene implied to me he liked C.C. Since the white snow stands for her, and he said he likes snow, doesn't hate it. Kallen was jealous alright, but I am talking about what Lelouch said here.
As am I, and Lelouch said it while Kallen was present, which is why I mentioned Kallen and the foreshadowing of her jealousy.

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When did she say that? I must have forgotten, can you tell me exactly when she spoke of such a thing? You don't leave a person alone when they hate them self. Although I don't think she hates herself, but she does think she is an evil witch. The fact that she dislikes herself, makes me want her to be happy. Because by the looks of it she has always been alone and sad...
Oh please, she has not always been alone and sad. She had a child she loved and loved her back for years, and she is the one who destroyed that child. She has made herself be alone, no one has forced it onto her. Mao loved her with every fiber of his being and she still left him. She is not seeking happiness, she is seeking a different desire.

As for when she said it; IIRC it was the end of the Season. I don't quite recall but I can always check.
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Old 2008-07-12, 14:30   Link #1162
hanseo
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it's so sad that the cc thread is full of cc hate
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Old 2008-07-12, 15:11   Link #1163
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it's so sad that the cc thread is full of cc hate
well maybe if she stopped advertising for pizza hutt and actually did something people wouldn't bitch
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Old 2008-07-12, 15:19   Link #1164
demon_god04
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That makes sense I guess

What ever little information, they have they can't know if she is longing to die...I think only the two of them know how she will end up.
Well it is just my interpretation of it, if you find my interpretation of the scene lacking in somewhere or just plain out of context then feel free to say something. I am an evil and biased Kallen fan after all.

Well, it is not necessarily means she dies or something nor am I implying as such. Just that rather then the scene being some indication of C.C x Lulu, it can be interpreted as something quite opposite.
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Old 2008-07-12, 16:53   Link #1165
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Where in the OP is this even shown? The Lancelot and Guren are shown facing off.
She appears with Gino, Anya and Nina.

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Originally Posted by Var View Post
So far, nothing that has happened in this show has surprised me, or caught me off guard. My point is that the show has never done anything outrageously out of the blue, everything has had adequate foreshadowing if you look for it. As such, it is unlikely that unforeshadowed things would occur.
But you think it foreshadows LxK and I think it is hinting at LxC In that way either one of us could be wrong.

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Did I ever say she snapped him out of his depression? I said that without Kallen nothing else would have occured, as such I believe you are belittling her role rather unfairly. She pulled him off his self-destructive path, that is all and that is what was important.
And you are giving her too much importance. She is as important as his other friends. Whatever she did would have been useless if the others weren't at the school. It's the same thing. Both the scenes were equally significant.


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As am I, and Lelouch said it while Kallen was present, which is why I mentioned Kallen and the foreshadowing of her jealousy.
Lelouch's words could be foreshadowing a LxC ending, while Kallen's jealousy could mean unrequited love.


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Oh please, she has not always been alone and sad. She had a child she loved and loved her back for years, and she is the one who destroyed that child. She has made herself be alone, no one has forced it onto her. Mao loved her with every fiber of his being and she still left him. She is not seeking happiness, she is seeking a different desire.
Mao did not love her. She was the only person unaffected by his geass. He had no one else. He needed her. He depended and clung on to her. That is not love. Some crazy obsessed person is not in love! And who likes someone who wants you to babysit them all the time?

We don't know what her wish is and how important it is. Maybe there was a reason she gave him geass. And he couldn't handle his geass. She wants the contract to be fulfilled at whatever cost. It is important to her for some reason. More important than anything else. She puts it above everything else. She didn't even want Lelouch to kill Mao (after he almost cut her into pieces), but in the end she had no choice but to do it herself. She is living for a sole purpose, that hasn't been revealed to us yet.


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As for when she said it; IIRC it was the end of the Season. I don't quite recall but I can always check.
Please do so. I am not saying it didn't happen, but I can't remember any such thing. So I'd like to confirm it.
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Old 2008-07-12, 17:29   Link #1166
mayaramayana
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Well, we don't have to take everything seriously. At least in my continent, Asia, it's Sunday already. Just a few hours more, Code Geass R2 ep. 14 will air. I expect something to be revealed here.

Also, notice in Code Geass season 1 2nd OP, at 01.43 to 01.48, you can see a pale hand waving (?) or asking for help (?) don't know....

And right at 1.48, you'll see a man silhouette with a geass sigil behind him.

If some of you asked: "I thought the OP and ED have nothing to do with it?"

my answer will be: "That only imply mostly to those from season 2."

Why don't you guys try to check it?
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Old 2008-07-12, 17:33   Link #1167
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it's so sad that the cc thread is full of cc hate
so true it reminds me of the ichigoXrukia Ichigoxorihime thread
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Old 2008-07-12, 18:58   Link #1168
Avira
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well maybe if she stopped advertising for pizza hutt and actually did something people wouldn't bitch
It's almost as bad as the Kallen fan-service abuse was.

In season 1 she was the main female character and now she's just sort of...disapearing.
But if they just leave her aside or simply decide to kill her off in the next 2-3 episodes they would be very very stupid.
Because of her the whole thing( Geass, contract, Black Knights, evil Lelouch) started. She is the geass giver.
It started with her, and it will probably end with her.
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Old 2008-07-12, 19:28   Link #1169
orangejuicetang
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it's so sad that the cc thread is full of cc hate
Similar to how the Suzuku thread was full of Suzuku hate? Though recently it has died done some, apart from the occasional random "Suzuku should die because I hate him" posts.
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Old 2008-07-12, 19:38   Link #1170
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Who doesn't disappear for stretches of time now? Lelouch, thats about it. C.C. Kallen, Suzaku, Rolo, and just about every other characters vanishes when they aren't around Lelouch this season. They get maybe a few minutes of screentime. So it's not surprising C.C. hasn't been around lately. This looks like its finally going to stop soon since the show will probably start centering on a single location rather than jumping around between Ashford, China, Japan, and Britannia.
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Old 2008-07-12, 19:44   Link #1171
demon_god04
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Well I would say in C.C's case it wasn't so much the location as much as the fact that they don't seem to include her in many scenes that do not involve geass. Though It will change soon when we finally get into the geass plot, which is about time.
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Old 2008-07-12, 19:51   Link #1172
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i would ask cc which pizzas is the best in pizza hut and i would but them in a regular basis. We need more scenes with cc and pizza.
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Old 2008-07-12, 20:20   Link #1173
Var
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She appears with Gino, Anya and Nina.
And we see the Mordred on Lelouch's side. So what is your point? You're grasping at straws to make a point that is countered by the rest of the OP.

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But you think it foreshadows LxK and I think it is hinting at LxC In that way either one of us could be wrong.
No I don't. I never said it foreshadowed KallenxLelouch, I said it foreshadows everything we've seen occur.

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And you are giving her too much importance. She is as important as his other friends. Whatever she did would have been useless if the others weren't at the school. It's the same thing. Both the scenes were equally significant.
Not quite, order of events is important in literature with the more important event facilitating later occurences. It is not uncommon for the most important occurence to open doors that finalize the impact of the original event. Kallen started it, they finished it. A finish cannot exist without a start, but a start can exist without a finish.

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Lelouch's words could be foreshadowing a LxC ending, while Kallen's jealousy could mean unrequited love.
If we're going to take those words into account as some sort of foreshadowing for a pairing, we might as well say that C.C. doomed to die because of what she promised to Mao. You cannot just dub something a foreshadowing without actual reason or support. It does not matter what a person's opinion is if it has no backing, otherwise I could say that the first episode foreshadowed a LelouchxSuzaku end.

The reason I said it was foreshadowing her jealousy is because, in the same episode or the one right after (I do not recall), we have a Kallen moment that reflects back on the cave scene. This chain continues into S2 and culminates at Episode 10 where it reaches it maximum and results in her getting captured. There is actual development in the plot to support the theory of jealousy, there is no such (as the scene is never mentioned by either C.C. or Lelouch again) for the Lelouch and C.C. foreshadowing.

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Mao did not love her. She was the only person unaffected by his geass. He had no one else. He needed her. He depended and clung on to her. That is not love. Some crazy obsessed person is not in love! And who likes someone who wants you to babysit them all the time?
I cannot believe that you are arguing that Mao did not love her. She was his mother, she was the only family and friend he ever knew. His obsession over her was based on love that was made perverse by her abandonment and his unstable psyche. Your diminishment of Mao is quite biased as he was C.C.'s child for the years that she was taking care of him. You can see it in the inflection in her voice, and in the flashbacks of the two. They loved one another. Or are you going to tell me that the scene of child Mao and C.C. hugging while sleeping in a broken building was not love?

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We don't know what her wish is and how important it is. Maybe there was a reason she gave him geass. And he couldn't handle his geass. She wants the contract to be fulfilled at whatever cost. It is important to her for some reason. More important than anything else. She puts it above everything else. She didn't even want Lelouch to kill Mao (after he almost cut her into pieces), but in the end she had no choice but to do it herself. She is living for a sole purpose, that hasn't been revealed to us yet.
Which is why I believe that she has far higher priorities than hunting love from a disillusioned teen. She is a hedgehog with one objective.

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Please do so. I am not saying it didn't happen, but I can't remember any such thing. So I'd like to confirm it.
Will do when I get home or some such.
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Old 2008-07-12, 20:26   Link #1174
Verist
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I agree there is to much hate here on the C.C. board, you guys just need a better defense! If you talk trash on the Kallen board you get your life threatened
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Old 2008-07-12, 20:47   Link #1175
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I agree there is to much hate here on the C.C. board, you guys just need a better defense! If you talk trash on the Kallen board you get your life threatened
LOL VAr is our ace in the hole with Kallen. i'm simply Like Ougi still important but never will be as big and important.
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Old 2008-07-12, 20:58   Link #1176
demon_god04
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I wouldn't say this is hate, whats going on is a debate, it is not like either side is just flaming eachother or stating their claims without backing them up. It is not hating on something when you disagree you know.
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Old 2008-07-13, 00:42   Link #1177
ccmemories
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i've been wondering but how did a discussion on who C.C. really is to a debate who's the main female character of the show to how each character thread should have a defense o.O
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Old 2008-07-13, 00:44   Link #1178
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I agree there is to much hate here on the C.C. board, you guys just need a better defense! If you talk trash on the Kallen board you get your life threatened
er...i've seen kallen trash talk on the kallen board and i'm pretty certain those people are still alive
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Old 2008-07-13, 01:50   Link #1179
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And we see the Mordred on Lelouch's side. So what is your point? You're grasping at straws to make a point that is countered by the rest of the OP.
So? Anya may switch sides too. She seems to have some connection with Lelouch. We'll see about that when it airs. You can't ignore that what I said is actually there in the OP. It might be temporarily, or they might all work together. Unless we have seen more episodes it's hard to say.


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No I don't. I never said it foreshadowed KallenxLelouch, I said it foreshadows everything we've seen occur.
ok I have already forgotten what we were talking about here


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Not quite, order of events is important in literature with the more important event facilitating later occurences. It is not uncommon for the most important occurence to open doors that finalize the impact of the original event. Kallen started it, they finished it. A finish cannot exist without a start, but a start can exist without a finish.
A start would be meaningless without the end. He would still have been depressed. He wouldn't want to wear the mask again without the fireworks scene. He would still have been left hanging. She only pushed him a little, the fireworks scene is what did it. That is why I said, both were equally important.

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If we're going to take those words into account as some sort of foreshadowing for a pairing, we might as well say that C.C. doomed to die because of what she promised to Mao. You cannot just dub something a foreshadowing without actual reason or support. It does not matter what a person's opinion is if it has no backing, otherwise I could say that the first episode foreshadowed a LelouchxSuzaku end.
I actually thought C.C. was going to die, after what she said to Mao. Or it can tell she wants to die. Not necessarily will die. It shows she is living for something, and once it's over, she thinks she has no other purpose but to die. And how is that no reason? So what the characters say have no meaning? They have deliberately put those words there. It can't be meaningless.

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The reason I said it was foreshadowing her jealousy is because, in the same episode or the one right after (I do not recall), we have a Kallen moment that reflects back on the cave scene. This chain continues into S2 and culminates at Episode 10 where it reaches it maximum and results in her getting captured. There is actual development in the plot to support the theory of jealousy, there is no such (as the scene is never mentioned by either C.C. or Lelouch again) for the Lelouch and C.C. foreshadowing.
Since we are still on the 13th episode (with the 14th coming out today) you can't say it doesn't foreshadow a LxC ending. It could easily be both. C.C. hasn't really played an active role the season. But things may change. It looks like something they would save for the last episodes.


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I cannot believe that you are arguing that Mao did not love her. She was his mother, she was the only family and friend he ever knew. His obsession over her was based on love that was made perverse by her abandonment and his unstable psyche. Your diminishment of Mao is quite biased as he was C.C.'s child for the years that she was taking care of him. You can see it in the inflection in her voice, and in the flashbacks of the two. They loved one another. Or are you going to tell me that the scene of child Mao and C.C. hugging while sleeping in a broken building was not love?
C.C. loved Mao. That is why even after he almost killed her, she didn't want Lelou to kill him. But after the geass Mao had only C.C. It had isolated him from the world. C.C. was the only person unaffected by his geass. It was natural for him to cling to her. Even more so, since he was so little. If there was only one person you were able to talk to since you were young, and they were kind to you, you would love them. We are talking about a child here, who had no one else. He had no family and C.C. was his only family. If he didn't need her, I doubt he would love her. And he had gone mad by the time he met C.C. again. Without her he literally couldn't exist normally. From him C.C. was his world, he had no other choice.

It's the same as someone breaking up with someone, and them turning into a stalker, on a different level. The stalker also loved them when they were going out. The one being stalked also thought there was something there, to have gone out with them in the first place. But in the end it wasn't love it was a mad fixation. Even if Mao loved her (because of his need) when he was little, when he grew up it had turned into an obsession. Then insane lovers who always (and by always I mean every second) want to be by their loved one's side are also in love with them? That is called obsession not love. I can't believe you are calling it love. He needed her to be by his side to function normally. How is it love?

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Which is why I believe that she has far higher priorities than hunting love from a disillusioned teen. She is a hedgehog with one objective.
She does have higher priorities. I suppose that is what the main story of Code Geass is about. Killing the Gods or whatever. Such people put petty things like love aside, in view of the bigger picture. Which is why it is sad. She thinks that is all she is alive for and then she can die (from what she told Mao, to wait for him).


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Will do when I get home or some such.
ok thanks.
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Old 2008-07-13, 05:32   Link #1180
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So? Anya may switch sides too. She seems to have some connection with Lelouch. We'll see about that when it airs. You can't ignore that what I said is actually there in the OP. It might be temporarily, or they might all work together. Unless we have seen more episodes it's hard to say.
Ep.14 disagrees with you as well. As I said, there is no shown foreshadowing for Kallen changing sides.

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ok I have already forgotten what we were talking about here
That nothing in this show occurs without adequate foreshadowing.

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A start would be meaningless without the end. He would still have been depressed. He wouldn't want to wear the mask again without the fireworks scene. He would still have been left hanging. She only pushed him a little, the fireworks scene is what did it. That is why I said, both were equally important.
A start allows for many ends, an end requires a start. You cannot say what would have happened when you don't know. Kallen's actions opened the door for a lot of possibilities, one of them being the fireworks. For all we know, if the fireworks hadn't happened, Lelouch could have found another reason and Shirley might not be dead now. Possibilities are infinite when you have a starting point.

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I actually thought C.C. was going to die, after what she said to Mao. Or it can tell she wants to die. Not necessarily will die. It shows she is living for something, and once it's over, she thinks she has no other purpose but to die. And how is that no reason? So what the characters say have no meaning? They have deliberately put those words there. It can't be meaningless.
As I said, the meaning of words has to have some logical backing to considered as the reason for the words being spoken. C.C.'s line to Mao, for instance, undermines possible romantic undertones to her conversations with Lelouch because the line shows that she has an agenda and that her heart has pretty much frozen over. This only applies to moments before it, so everything before Ep.15 likely had another purpose. And, as I said, the cave scenes seems more indicative of Kallen's perpetually developing jealousy than some sort of lovers bond between Lelouch and C.C..

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Since we are still on the 13th episode (with the 14th coming out today) you can't say it doesn't foreshadow a LxC ending. It could easily be both. C.C. hasn't really played an active role the season. But things may change. It looks like something they would save for the last episodes.
They can't save Lelouch and C.C. for the last episode because it would have utterly no development. Right now, no pairing has much development and if everything were to end and that pairing occur I'd laugh. Things need to occur between the characters to make it believable, as such, they cannot be saving everything for the end if they want a C.C. end.

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C.C. loved Mao. That is why even after he almost killed her, she didn't want Lelou to kill him. But after the geass Mao had only C.C. It had isolated him from the world. C.C. was the only person unaffected by his geass. It was natural for him to cling to her. Even more so, since he was so little. If there was only one person you were able to talk to since you were young, and they were kind to you, you would love them. We are talking about a child here, who had no one else. He had no family and C.C. was his only family. If he didn't need her, I doubt he would love her. And he had gone mad by the time he met C.C. again. Without her he literally couldn't exist normally. From him C.C. was his world, he had no other choice.
I'm not quite sure how you can use that to argue against Mao loving C.C.. If she hadn't given him the powers but had still picked him up off the streets, he'd have still come to love her. She was his mother, no ifs ands or buts. The power he was given simply turned his love into an obsession, as those two can often cross borders. Unless you mean that if the two had never met under the circumstances he'd have not come to love her... which is a duh. Everything is about coincidence of encounter in this show.

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It's the same as someone breaking up with someone, and them turning into a stalker, on a different level. The stalker also loved them when they were going out. The one being stalked also thought there was something there, to have gone out with them in the first place. But in the end it wasn't love it was a mad fixation. Even if Mao loved her (because of his need) when he was little, when he grew up it had turned into an obsession. Then insane lovers who always (and by always I mean every second) want to be by their loved one's side are also in love with them? That is called obsession not love. I can't believe you are calling it love. He needed her to be by his side to function normally. How is it love?
It was love. Just like how the stalker once loved the person they stalked. It was love, but was driven perverse by seperation. That is what happened to Mao. He loved her so much so that his love turned into an obsession.

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She does have higher priorities. I suppose that is what the main story of Code Geass is about. Killing the Gods or whatever. Such people put petty things like love aside, in view of the bigger picture. Which is why it is sad. She thinks that is all she is alive for and then she can die (from what she told Mao, to wait for him).
So then how can you argue that she is at all interested in Lelouch?
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