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Old 2008-06-24, 16:04   Link #2041
DN24
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Not every regime that come to power are worse than the previous one, just that they can be corrupted very easily.After you risk you life fighting,normally you would want something back...
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Old 2008-06-24, 16:05   Link #2042
canis
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Change from within can't only occur with the help of Britannian nobles, but also the help of the Japanese...
Not all of them are powerless, there are merchants or other people that have accumulated or kept their wealth.
Apart from Nunnally he doesn't have any support and it will take time for her to be taken seriously.

And not all change has to be due to violence there are plenty of examples on change that started due to peaceful demonstrations and the like.

Suzaku's way of gaining the necessary power to take Area 11 over isn't peaceful, but should be effective...
Until he has gained his title, he'll need to dirty his hands further. His present status is a tricky thing he's always on the verge of losing everything... There are various people jealous of him... Maybe they see him as the first of many Numbers gaining influence, who knows...
In that regard he isn't that different to Lelouche...
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Old 2008-06-24, 16:05   Link #2043
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Originally Posted by Eagles View Post
Theres a difference between demanding change and throwing a revolution. What would have happened had the African-American Civil Rights Movement have gone down the path of a revolution?
Who knows. I'm just saying, revolutions are more fruitful than peaceful demands. People get angry, things change.

Love the Turn-A avatar, Eagles. ^_^

At the least in Britannian society from what we know the only person with the power to change things entirely is the Emperor. Charles likes Britannia kicking ass and taking names.
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Old 2008-06-24, 16:06   Link #2044
Orga777
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Originally Posted by Traece View Post
Who knows. I'm just saying, revolutions are more fruitful than peaceful demands. People get angry, things change.
And the next thing you know you have another Hitler or Stalin running around.
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Old 2008-06-24, 16:07   Link #2045
Eliarine
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In that regard he isn't that different to Lelouche...
Lelouch and Suzaku are really not that different. I wish more people would see that.
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Old 2008-06-24, 16:08   Link #2046
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Originally Posted by Traece View Post
Who knows. I'm just saying, revolutions are more fruitful than peaceful demands. People get angry, things change.
.
And then they suffer tenfold. The fruits of revolution take almost as long to appear as when you try to change it form within.
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Old 2008-06-24, 16:10   Link #2047
wtfftw
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You do know what happens after every big revolution don't you. A civil war and a worse regime.
not always. Revolution happen because there is a worse regime and because they want a better government. If then that governemnt is worse which in history can be either way another revolution might or might not occur

ooh and btw Suzaku is a prick
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Old 2008-06-24, 16:10   Link #2048
Orga777
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Originally Posted by Eliarine View Post
Lelouch and Suzaku are really not that different. I wish more people would see that.
That would require people to put aside their biases and look at everything though. <.<

Quote:
Originally Posted by wtfftw
not always. Revolution happen because there is a worse regime and because they want a better government. If then that governemnt is worse which in history can be either way another revolution might or might not occur
Right because the Czar's were worse than Stalin... Sorry, history usually shows that most revolutions end really badly.

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ooh and btw Suzaku is a prick
Thanks for that useless comment.
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Old 2008-06-24, 16:11   Link #2049
DarkLordOfkichiku
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And then they suffer tenfold. The fruits of revolution take almost as long to appear as when you try to change it form within.
That depend son the system you're trying to change, I'd say. It isn't so easy to change thigns withina tyrannical government/regime (where wanting to change thigns might well mean death as well) as it is to change things in a democracy...
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Old 2008-06-24, 16:14   Link #2050
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Originally Posted by Orga777 View Post
That would require people to put aside their biases and look at everything though. <.<
Yeah I guess it's way easier to worship Lelouch and blame Suzaku for everything. But then the show must be pretty boring to watch.
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Old 2008-06-24, 16:14   Link #2051
Orga777
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Originally Posted by DarkLordOfkichiku View Post
That depend son the system you're trying to change, I'd say. It isn't so easy to change thigns withina tyrannical government/regime (where wanting to change thigns might well mean death as well) as it is to change things in a democracy...
A revolution always starts off with good intentions though. Usually though, it ends up becoming worse than before. Heck, what will happen if Lelouch does get what he wants? Not everyone sees things the way he does, and once Lelouch loses power, or dies, the next person could be nothing more than a nasty tyrant that wants to oppress people they don't like.
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Old 2008-06-24, 16:21   Link #2052
wtfftw
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Right because the Czar's were worse than Stalin... Sorry, history usually shows that most revolutions end really badly.
in the times of the Czar there was basically slavery. Not in name but in the conditions the farmers had to live in etc. And no i dont see a difference between that and stalin. And stalin was not the one who was the leader after the revolution it was lenin in the 1st world war period they somewhat lived better then under the Czar's

The dutch revolted against the spanish regime and after that it was way better. The american revolution was against the british regime and yeah after that they had the constitution in which freedom was essential. the french revolt ensured more freedom. I can go on.

I also said that it can go either way. You cant disprove history with 1 example and say its a formula that if revolt happens it will never go good thats bullshit. It can go either way.

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Thanks for that useless comment.
that was actually a informative quote about the subject of this thread^^.

What do you want me to say yeah he is great for killing his dad. selling out lulu not knowing wtf happened. or that he doesnt even do any fuck fo rthe japanese people let alone abuse nunnally for his desire to punish lulu.
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Old 2008-06-24, 16:22   Link #2053
DarkLordOfkichiku
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Originally Posted by Orga777 View Post
A revolution always starts off with good intentions though. Usually though, it ends up becoming worse than before. Heck, what will happen if Lelouch does get what he wants? Not everyone sees things the way he does, and once Lelouch loses power, or dies, the next person could be nothing more than a nasty tyrant that wants to oppress people they don't like.
Well, there's always the risk that the winners become worse than the oens they defeated. This has happaned in history before - but it has also NOT happened. You can't tell which it'llb e before it's over. And when changing things from the inside, what good are your good intentions if you get killed when trying to change things by someone like Rolo?
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Old 2008-06-24, 16:22   Link #2054
demon_god04
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Originally Posted by Orga777 View Post
A revolution always starts off with good intentions though. Usually though, it ends up becoming worse than before. Heck, what will happen if Lelouch does get what he wants? Not everyone sees things the way he does, and once Lelouch loses power, or dies, the next person could be nothing more than a nasty tyrant that wants to oppress people they don't like.
Same thing can be said with Suzaku becoming the governer of Area 11 and what happens after when he is gone.
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Old 2008-06-24, 16:24   Link #2055
canis
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It depends though. I guess a revolution can bring change, if you are willing to do so within certain boundaries. If you do everything it takes and don't differentiate then you'll just trade one evil for the other.
And as for peaceful and quiet (at least concerning the actions of the party demanding the change) revolutions I think Martin Luther King and Ghandi are nice examples...
I'm not trying to contrast them to the show, I think that's pretty much impossible but I think sometimes the change will be more effective, at least in the long run...
And both personalities left a lasting impression and inspiration for coming generations...

Lelouche was shown to be not as demonic as he tried to appear in the first season and Suzaku didn't initiate a second massacre... So they both wouldn't be candidates for despots on the rise I think.
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Old 2008-06-24, 16:26   Link #2056
Orga777
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Originally Posted by demon_god04 View Post
Same thing can be said with Suzaku becoming the governer of Area 11 and what happens after when he is gone.
But by then he could get people in the Britannian government, and citizens of both Numbers and Britannians to go along with him and help him change things for the better. He will have the power to do that and with that power, people will listen. That is the whole meaning of changing things from inside.
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Old 2008-06-24, 16:32   Link #2057
wtfftw
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But by then he could get people in the Britannian government, and citizens of both Numbers and Britannians to go along with him and help him change things for the better. He will have the power to do that and with that power, people will listen. That is the whole meaning of changing things from inside.
SO WHY ISNT he doing that.

i didnt know people in the army were leaders as in senators and stuff. But that might all be alternative reality stuff.

If you want to make your statement true show that HE Suzaku wants to make them get along, Its the damn brits with racism not the japanese people so Show where he says emperor i think you shoudl respect the japanese people and make sure racism gets punished. Instead Nunnally came with that idea and NOT suzaku.

SO fact still remains Suzaku is a prick

thing is Suzaku is lame fag. The guy as a character has a flaw will never make him succeed. You cant change people with power. you can change wars etc and put pressure on people but you cant change people with power alone you need to talk and hold speeches show your intend and do actual work with people for people to change.

Which is what Lulu can do when he is the leader of both his army and people who follow him. Also because he is on that rank level or whatever, he can make brittania acknowledge him if they agree on it. Thus also what he represents.

in History i can not remember a situation where change came from within. I never saw white people say lets treat black people differently. I never saw the brits do what gandhi did to make a change without the protests of the oppressed. Only because of the outside influence will one be moved to change. I might be wrog but i can't recall a situation
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Old 2008-06-24, 16:35   Link #2058
Orga777
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Originally Posted by wtfftw View Post
SO WHY ISNT he doing that.
There are two major reasons for that right now.
1) He isn't the Knight of One yet.
2) Lelouch made it so the Britannian government can't trust Numbers in fear of rebellion AND is making it hard by being currently active.
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Old 2008-06-24, 16:36   Link #2059
canis
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Originally Posted by wtfftw View Post
SO WHY ISNT he doing that.

i didnt know people in the army were leaders as in senators and stuff. But that might all be alternative reality stuff.

If you want to make your statement true show that HE Suzaku wants to make them get along, Its the damn brits with racism not the japanese people so Show where he says emperor i think you shoudl respect the japanese people and make sure racism gets punished. Instead Nunnally came with that idea and NOT suzaku.

SO fact still remains Suzaku is a prick
He isn't doing that because he isn't Knight of One yet and Japan isn't under his command. Nunnally is governor and apparently has limited power to act.
At the moment he's still quite involved in fighting and is often away...
And it's not only the Britannians that are racist. Tamaki wanted to shoot a bunch of school kids and he was convinced Zero would have done the same...
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Old 2008-06-24, 16:45   Link #2060
wtfftw
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He isn't doing that because he isn't Knight of One yet and Japan isn't under his command. Nunnally is governor and apparently has limited power to act.
At the moment he's still quite involved in fighting and is often away...
And it's not only the Britannians that are racist. Tamaki wanted to shoot a bunch of school kids and he was convinced Zero would have done the same...
i doubt such a situation would happen if japan was never oppressed

About the round of One i'd give 2 shit if he is round of 1 or round of 100000000.

Its pretty obvious it wont make a difference if he is 1 or 10 he will only be busy taking zero down. Why can others make a difference with just being who you are and he needs a damn number for fuck sake he can at least do something to make a difference at this point.

People same the excuse of being number 1 man. I mean you mean to tell me he cant just aid people who are mistreated. What he cant set up a party or lobby of people who will support those from both side in making a difference.

the guy is obviously a war maniac.
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