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Old 2008-06-26, 14:06   Link #2461
Mr.Mo
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If EU attempted to attack Britannia at home.. wouldn't they fail because they have to supply their troops across the ocean and keep it supplied and now that there are new gen float KMF units..I think it would be a disaster.

Remember last time, Suzaku went in and completely owned.
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Old 2008-06-26, 14:07   Link #2462
Dynastya
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Originally Posted by orangejuicetang View Post
My point is regardless, there would be alot more forces stationed in Britannia than in Japan.
Yeah but the forces outside would not be in the magnitude of being able to handle a war against another superpower. Even the total troops stationed in Area 11 couldn't handle the Black Knight's smaller numbers and superior tactics.

And if you think 3% of the total active army is enough to face off against a major superpower or two, you need to have a very large army that would eat up your treasury so fast. Military forces are supported by taxpayer's money, they don't go earn their own money, they have to request it from the government. And I doubt if the Britannia military would be low enough to be drug dealers to make enough money to support such a large army.

In other words, lets say that the CF can afford to send 3million (just to keep the numbers even) troops to fight Britannia, that means in order to ensure victory against the CF, Britannia would have to send in a military force at least the same number 3 million which by your count would be 3% of the active army. So that means another 97 million soldiers are left in Britannia (and other occupied areas).

Can you calculate how much of the national treasury it would cost to keep that 97million well trained, well equipped and fed.

And don't say that maybe the CF can only raise a few thousand troops, because with the large area that the CF territory occupies, its more than likely they can support more than 1million active soldiers.

and it's not just soldiers, the Britannians would have to keep an additional number of personnel over twice the number of soldiers they have as support staff, engineers, drivers, medics, etc.

Even in the real world, for each fighter pilot and 1 fighter jet, there is an additional 4-5 or more support personnel for logistics.
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Old 2008-06-26, 14:07   Link #2463
SoldierOfDarkness
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We are talking about the era when Japan was conquered. The era where Britannian Knightmares literally dominated the land battlefield.

Quote:
In other words, lets say that the CF can afford to send 3million (just to keep the numbers even) troops to fight Britannia, that means in order to ensure victory against the CF, Britannia would have to send in a military force at least the same number 3 million which by your count would be 3% of the active army. So that means another 97 million soldiers are left in Britannia (and other occupied areas).
The hell do you send 3 million soldiers across the pacific ocean without getting sunk by the britannian navy?
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Old 2008-06-26, 14:12   Link #2464
Dynastya
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Originally Posted by SoldierOfDarkness View Post
Really? All I remember was seeing a bunch of Frames attacking the britannian forces and then getting wiped out. You mind linking to where you got a whole lot more information?



Ok so you agree that Britannia was dominating in these battles...so why are you so confident that the EU and Chinese could even stage a successful invasion on a continent that's an ocean distance away?

If the Britannians are holding the line against their homefront how would they even be remotely be able to send an invasion force that wouldn't get pummeled by britannian navy and air froces without weakning their own postions?

Then you have the chinese who are surrounded by the britannians how in the world would they send an invasion force of sufficient size past Britannian forces to the mainland?
The Britannians can keep the EU deadlocked in that position is because they don't have to worry about sending troops to other fronts. At the moment they can fully concentrate on the EU front, but even Schneizel didn't fight on that front for long, he ended the conflict after a certain amount of victories.
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Old 2008-06-26, 14:13   Link #2465
Dynastya
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Originally Posted by SoldierOfDarkness View Post
We are talking about the era when Japan was conquered. The era where Britannian Knightmares literally dominated the land battlefield.



The hell do you send 3 million soldiers across the pacific ocean without getting sunk by the britannian navy?
In R1, the CF was able to send in a large naval force into Kyushu and occupy it without being detected until it was too late for the Britannians to stop them.

And the Pacific ocean is a large surface area to cover, you would literally need thousands of ships to keep every inch of it monitored completely.

And as I said Japan is a lot closer to CF than to Britannian, the distance between Japan and CF is a stone toss compared to the distance between Britannia and Japan.
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Old 2008-06-26, 14:13   Link #2466
SoldierOfDarkness
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Your not answering my question.

If the britannians can keep the EU deadlock at it's own homefront, how the heck do you expect the EU to send an invasion force the other way? They would have to run through an area under Britannian navy control. Same with the Chinese.

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In R1, the CF was able to send in a large naval force into Kyushu and occupy it without being detected until it was too late for the Britannians to stop them.
I have two problems with that answer.

1. I'm confident that the Chinese did NOT send 3 million troops

2. Japan's right next door to China. I'm pretty sure it's a lot harder to send 3 million soldiers across the pacific ocean without being detected.
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Old 2008-06-26, 14:14   Link #2467
orangejuicetang
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Japan was not a superpower at that time. And yes, the troops in Britannia would be able to fend off enemy attacks. Simply because they have the home front advantage. If the Japanese could launch such a decent rebellion with home front advantage that even Britannia's superior numbers and firepower had problems, what makes you think that the EU or CF could launch a successful attack against Britannia, where Britannia would have the home front advantage.
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Old 2008-06-26, 14:21   Link #2468
Dynastya
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Originally Posted by SoldierOfDarkness View Post
Your not answering my question.

If the britannians can keep the EU deadlock at it's own homefront, how the heck do you expect the EU to send an invasion force the other way? They would have to run through an area under Britannian navy control. Same with the Chinese.



I have two problems with that answer.

1. I'm confident that the Chinese did NOT send 3 million troops

2. Japan's right next door to China. I'm pretty sure it's a lot harder to send 3 million soldiers across the pacific ocean without being detected.

Oh for the lack of intelligence, YES the chinese did not send 3 million troops at that time, but they were still able to send in a significant force to take control of Kyushu from Britannia and Cornelia even said it would take days for enough reinforcements to arrive for the Britannia military to take back control of Kyushu so they had to send Suzaku in for a suicide attack hoping that he would be able to wipe out a lot of their air defenses quickly and have Avalon make a quick strike to take out the leaders of the CF troops there.

But do you even realize the number of troops a real world warship can carry, a Nimitz class aircraft carrier has an average personnel of 4000+ and at emergency times can carry over three times that number.

Dedicated troop transport ships can carry hundreds at a time. And since CF and Japan are closer, parachute drops of troops can also be done. And sending 3 million troops does not mean all at once in a single day, it means over a period of time, probably a week or a month, and I doubt Britannia has 3million troops stationed in all of Japan.
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Old 2008-06-26, 14:24   Link #2469
Dynastya
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Originally Posted by orangejuicetang View Post
Japan was not a superpower at that time. And yes, the troops in Britannia would be able to fend off enemy attacks. Simply because they have the home front advantage. If the Japanese could launch such a decent rebellion with home front advantage that even Britannia's superior numbers and firepower had problems, what makes you think that the EU or CF could launch a successful attack against Britannia, where Britannia would have the home front advantage.
If both the CF and EU decided to attack Britannia together while Britannia was busy with Japan, Britannia would have a hard time. The supply line to their troops in Japan could be cut off, ensuring either a Japanese victory or a CF+EU allied victory in Japan. Britannia would have to defend both their East and West coastal areas, etc. It would be a hard time for them even if they can manage to hold their ground.


And once Japan or CF+EU has defeated Britannia in Japan, how much longer will the much needed supply of Sakuradite reserves in Britannia would last? CF and EU wouldn't need to invade Britannia, they could lay siege and wear down the resources of the Britannians.
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Old 2008-06-26, 14:25   Link #2470
SoldierOfDarkness
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Originally Posted by Dynastya View Post
Oh for the lack of intelligence, YES the chinese did not send 3 million troops at that time, but they were still able to send in a significant force to take control of Kyushu from Britannia and Cornelia even said it would take days for enough reinforcements to arrive for the Britannia military to take back control of Kyushu so they had to send Suzaku in for a suicide attack hoping that he would be able to wipe out a lot of their air defenses quickly and have Avalon make a quick strike to take out the leaders of the CF troops there.
No actually the reason why the britannians were held off was because of the weather. Cornelia had to wait for the weather to clear up before she could even mount a successful attack.

Quote:
Oh for the lack of intelligence, YES the chinese did not send 3 million troops at that time
You are fully aware that the 3 million was in reference to the homeland and not japan invasion? You brought up the chinese invasion yourself.

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But do you even realize the number of troops a real world warship can carry, a Nimitz class aircraft carrier has an average personnel of 4000+ and at emergency times can carry over three times that number.

Dedicated troop transport ships can carry hundreds at a time. And since CF and Japan are closer, parachute drops of troops can also be done. And sending 3 million troops does not mean all at once in a single day, it means over a period of time, probably a week or a month, and I doubt Britannia has 3million troops stationed in all of Japan.
I was under the impression we were discussing about invading britannian homeland.

And you still haven't answered my question.

Since this was the time when Britannia literally dominated the battlefield with their frames, how do you expect the EU and Chinese to even successfully stage an invasion? Again the EU would have to break the deadlock in order to send troops across the atlantic ocean and chinese would have to contend with britannian controlled waters.
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Old 2008-06-26, 14:26   Link #2471
orangejuicetang
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If CF and EU decided to attack Brittania together, they would have won regardless of whether Britannia was busy with Japan or not. Before the Japanese invasion, each of the three countries had roughly the same amount of power, so if any two countries teamed up to against the third country, the third country would have lost.
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Old 2008-06-26, 14:31   Link #2472
Dynastya
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Originally Posted by SoldierOfDarkness View Post
No actually the reason why the britannians were held off was because of the weather. Cornelia had to wait for the weather to clear up before she could even mount a successful attack.



I was under the impression we were discussing about invading britannian homeland.

And you still haven't answered my question.

Since this was the time when Britannia literally dominated the battlefield with their frames, how do you expect the EU and Chinese to even successfully stage an invasion? Again the EU would have to break the deadlock in order to send troops across the atlantic ocean and chinese would have to contend with britannian controlled waters.
You're right, I forgot about that weather fact, but still she thought it was very troublesome and would be very difficult to take back Kyushu in a short time.

You said Britannia would need to only send out 3% troops to fight wars outside of their mainland while keeping 97% at home, so in order to keep the numbers even, I had 1% equal 1million soldiers. If the CF plan to fight Britannia they aren't going to send in only a tiny fraction of their troops, they are going to send a majority which if we take a look at their population/territory they occupy could number a few million.
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Old 2008-06-26, 14:32   Link #2473
SoldierOfDarkness
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You said Britannia would need to only send out 3% troops to fight wars outside of their mainland while keeping 97% at home, so in order to keep the numbers even, I had 1% equal 1million soldiers. If the CF plan to fight Britannia they aren't going to send in only a tiny fraction of their troops, they are going to send a majority which if we take a look at their population/territory they occupy could number a few million.
That wasn't me that was the other guy.

And you STILL haven' t answered my question on how the EU and Chinese would send invasion forces across two oceans which the Britannians dominate.
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Old 2008-06-26, 14:36   Link #2474
Dynastya
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Originally Posted by SoldierOfDarkness View Post
That wasn't me that was the other guy.

And you STILL haven' t answered my question on how the EU and Chinese would send invasion forces across two oceans which the Britannians dominate.
Just like how the americans sent a few hundred thousand of troops to fight the Pacific front during World War II.

And since Code Geass takes place in a world with more advanced technology than we had during WW II, I'm sure they would have means of transporting large numbers of troops.

We don't completely know anything about the military statistics of the superpowers in Code Geass do we, except for the fact that orangejuicetang mentioned that around the time of the Japan invasion, all three superpowers had about the same number of forces.

And I never said the 3 million would be sent all at once, it could be sent in large groups perhaps 100,000 or more at at time. Perhaps even 500,000 or more at a time. I'll let the military logistics dept take care of how to send the troops, but with the size of the CF, they can probably deploy at least 2-3 million for sure and would probably have a standing army of a few million at least.
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Old 2008-06-26, 14:44   Link #2475
Dynastya
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Originally Posted by SoldierOfDarkness View Post
Since this was the time when Britannia literally dominated the battlefield with their frames, how do you expect the EU and Chinese to even successfully stage an invasion? Again the EU would have to break the deadlock in order to send troops across the atlantic ocean and chinese would have to contend with britannian controlled waters.
At the time CF and Britannia weren't at war, if the CF had decided to interfere with the invasion of Japan, the Britannians would have had to send in more troops to deal both the Japanese troops and CF troops.

The Japanese invasion was the first time the Britannians used knightmare frames, glascow units, according to R1 episode 1. And I doubt the Japanese had much of a national army if the producers tried to reflect the real world military strength of Japan.

Meaning they may have to pull off some troops from the EU front. And the Britannians were at a standoff in Northern Africa, not other parts of Europe, we don't even know what the situation was like in those other parts of the EU during the time of the Japanese invasion.


read the article about code geass on wikipedia.
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Old 2008-06-26, 14:49   Link #2476
SoldierOfDarkness
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Originally Posted by Dynastya View Post
Just like how the americans sent a few hundred thousand of troops to fight the Pacific front during World War II.
Let's get some facts straight here.

If Britannian is deadlock with the EU at the El Alamian front, then that means they have a significant presense in the Atlantic Ocean. Enough to allow them to continue sending troops across the ocean and to keep them supplied. Enough so that they can divert resources to other fronts without being interfered.

So explain to me how the heck the EU would be able to send troops the other way and keep them supplied when they are already deadlocked with the enemy?

During the invasion of Japan we see that britannia has enough control in the surrounding chinese seas to invade Japan without interference. How do you expect the Chinese to send and supply troops across the pacific ocean adquately?

They'd have to go through midway and hawaii as well.

And even if they do land, how do you expect them to be successful? Britannia had superior ground forces in the knightmare field.

In real life, the US already controlled half of the pacific ocean. In this case, the britannians control 99% of the pacific ocean.

Quote:
And I doubt the Japanese had much of a national army if the producers tried to reflect the real world military strength of Japan.
Uhhh since this is an alternate universe I don't think that's the case.

Quote:
The Japanese invasion was the first time the Britannians used knightmare frames, glascow units, according to R1 episode 1.
Which the narrator stated allowed the britannians dominance in land battles.
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Old 2008-06-26, 14:57   Link #2477
Dynastya
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Code Geass never gave details of the military strengths of the three superpowers only stating that during the time of the Japanese invasion, they were about equally strong.

And as for how troops can be transported, since we don't know what kind of naval vessals the CF or EU has who can tell, all we can estimate is that if EU and CF allied to take on Britannia, the Brits would have a very difficult time even if they weren't invaded and taken over like Japan was.

We are also forgetting that thought the brits may be a powerhouse in the Pacific and Atlantic, there is still the Artic oceans North of Asia and Indian ocean south of Asia, two bodies of water they don't control where the CF and EU may be able to amass a large navy. At the time of the Japanese invasion, the most advanced frames the Brits had were glascows and quite possibly the Gloucester units were in development. But neither of these two frames seem to be designed for sea battles and floating units haven't seem to be invented at the time either.
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Old 2008-06-26, 14:59   Link #2478
orangejuicetang
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I forget how this has anything to do with Suzuku. It's amazing how off topic these character threads can get.
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Old 2008-06-26, 15:02   Link #2479
Rising Dragon
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Originally Posted by orangejuicetang View Post
I forget how this has anything to do with Suzuku. It's amazing how off topic these character threads can get.
I'd have warned you guys earlier, but no one listens to me when I do say it.
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Old 2008-06-26, 15:04   Link #2480
Dynastya
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Originally Posted by Rising Dragon View Post
I'd have warned you guys earlier, but no one listens to me when I do say it.
it started from talk about why Suzaku murdering his father was wrong (or not) and whether Genbu's fight on policy was good or not and just got to where it is.

some form of 6 degrees of seperation between Suzaku and CF EU BE war.
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