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Old 2008-04-14, 16:28   Link #241
Masterkeyes2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Juvyniled View Post
I suppose it would've been more forgivable had he axed Lelouch. (sarcasm)

Now I'm not saying that he couldn't have compromised, but if he had, he would've been more hypocritical than ever (though ironically, he would be less despised).

To be honest, trading Lelouch in to the Emperor was the lesser of two evils. On one hand, he could have killed Lelouch and could still be in a position for an advancement in status (which would have certainly solidified his reputation as an asshole in my book), and on the other, he proceeds with the deal to not have to kill Lelouch and yada yada yada. And add in the fact that Lelouch is now invulnerable to Geass (at least from the Emperor himself).

By the way, what is the "ruling" on that matter? If an individual has already been "Geassed," by one user, are they still vulnerable to orders from another user?
First we dont know if the Emperor has a limit on the Geass. God knows how long he must of been studying about the Geass, he may have found a loop hole. Second I dont think Suzaku brought Lelouch to the Emperor with the thought in mind of letting him live. He probably doesn't give a rats ass wheter he lives or dies.

As for him being nice an act in Season 1...I doubt it. I think he was aiming to be a good person. He was solider yes, but his only fault really lied in him following orders blindly.
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Old 2008-04-14, 16:33   Link #242
Dann of Thursday
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Suzaku was simply trading Lelouch for the position. What happened to Lelouch didn't matter to him.

Taniguchi said himself that it was all an act and that he was simply being selfish.
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Old 2008-04-14, 16:34   Link #243
ashlay
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dann of Thursday View Post
Suzaku was simply trading Lelouch for the position. What happened to Lelouch didn't matter to him.

Taniguchi said himself that it was all an act and that he was simply being selfish.
actually, that's interesting question: When did the whole swearing to kill Zero thing come in? Was it in fact after the events of turn 2, despite showing up in turn 1?
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Old 2008-04-14, 16:34   Link #244
Juvyniled
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Originally Posted by Masterkeyes2 View Post
First we dont know if the Emperor has a limit on the Geass. God knows how long he must of been studying about the Geass, he may have found a loop hole. Second I dont think Suzaku brought Lelouch to the Emperor with the thought in mind of letting him live. He probably doesn't give a rats ass wheter he lives or dies.

As for him being nice an act in Season 1...I doubt it. I think he was aiming to be a good person. He was solider yes, but his only fault really lied in him following orders blindly.
Do not forget as well that Suzaku was also blindly bent on killing Euphemia's murderer, which in particular was Zero. I will not and can not say that you are wrong in the belief that Suzaku brought Lelouch to the Emperor for personal gain, but if we all agree that Suzaku acts irrationally and blindly, and if Suzaku did not "give a rat's ass about Lelouch," he could have very easily just shot him then and there.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dann of Thursday View Post
Suzaku was simply trading Lelouch for the position. What happened to Lelouch didn't matter to him.

Taniguchi said himself that it was all an act and that he was simply being selfish.
Source (not that I believe you are lying, but a link of some sort would be helpful)?
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Old 2008-04-14, 16:38   Link #245
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Yeah, the whole swearing to kill Zero did seem unexplained unless it is a flashfoward.
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Old 2008-04-14, 16:39   Link #246
Dann of Thursday
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Originally Posted by ashlay View Post
actually, that's interesting question: When did the whole swearing to kill Zero thing come in? Was it in fact after the events of turn 2, despite showing up in turn 1?
That has been something I have been curious about. I assume it happened after episode 2.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Juvyniled View Post
Source (not that I believe you are lying, but a link of some sort would be helpful)?
Well, I can't recall exactly where he said it. If you watch the last Picture Book and look at what Suzaku is saying, you can see how messed up Suzaku's mindset was back then. Mao said it himself in episode 16.
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Old 2008-04-14, 16:41   Link #247
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Originally Posted by Dann of Thursday View Post
Well, I can't recall exactly where he said it. If you watch the last Picture Book and look at what Suzaku is saying, you can see how messed up Suzaku's mindset was back then. Mao said it himself in episode 16.
Oh, I thought you meant that Taniguchi had said it himself directly in an interview.
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Old 2008-04-14, 16:43   Link #248
Dann of Thursday
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Originally Posted by Juvyniled View Post
Oh, I thought you meant that Taniguchi had said it himself directly in an interview.
I think he or someone may have once, but I can't recall for sure. Someone else would probably know. I know he talked about how he regarded Lelouch in an interview once.
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Old 2008-04-14, 17:02   Link #249
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Cool thing would be if suddenly Suzaku dies catching everybody off guard. Yeah it would. Well, we are already used to the plot twists of the show aren't we?
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Old 2008-04-14, 17:09   Link #250
Dann of Thursday
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The biggest plot twist I saw was Euphemia and I had sort of been getting death vibes from her for a while. The conflict with Suzaku has to be taken care of eventually, but it won't be till later.
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Old 2008-04-14, 18:35   Link #251
evil|plushie
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Originally Posted by Juvyniled View Post
I suppose it would've been more forgivable had he axed Lelouch. (sarcasm)

To be honest, trading Lelouch in to the Emperor was the lesser of two evils. On one hand, he could have killed Lelouch and could still be in a position for an advancement in status (which would have certainly solidified his reputation as an asshole in my book), and on the other, he proceeds with the deal to not have to kill Lelouch and yada yada yada. And add in the fact that Lelouch is now invulnerable to Geass (at least from the Emperor himself).

By the way, what is the "ruling" on that matter? If an individual has already been "Geassed," by one user, are they still vulnerable to orders from another user?
I think Lelouch would have preferred to be axed compared to being dragged before his enemy in chains, mindraped and then having his memories of his mother and sister erased.

As it is, we have no idea if Suzaku knew Lelouch would be spared or not. He could simply have been bringing Lelouch before the emperor as a precautionary measure. After all, if he killed Lelouch on the island, where's the proof that the guy was Zero? And there's no clue whether the emperor would react favourably or disfavourably to someone killing one of his children (even exiled ones). Better to just drag Lulu to the emperor and let him make the decision while trying to bargain for a better rank.

And I'd say yes, people seem to be vulnerable to other geasses since Shirley and Suzaku can be affected by both Mao and Lulus.
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Old 2008-04-14, 18:48   Link #252
scifijimmy
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I personally believe the Emperor is out to corrupt Suzaku. Slowly give him power, but put limits and costs on it until Suzaku's mind frame suits the emperor.
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Old 2008-04-14, 18:52   Link #253
Juvyniled
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Originally Posted by evil|plushie View Post
I think Lelouch would have preferred to be axed compared to being dragged before his enemy in chains, mindraped and then having his memories of his mother and sister erased.

As it is, we have no idea if Suzaku knew Lelouch would be spared or not. He could simply have been bringing Lelouch before the emperor as a precautionary measure. After all, if he killed Lelouch on the island, where's the proof that the guy was Zero? And there's no clue whether the emperor would react favourably or disfavourably to someone killing one of his children (even exiled ones). Better to just drag Lulu to the emperor and let him make the decision while trying to bargain for a better rank.
Just as well, that's almost as if to say that Suzaku knew Lelouch would even be of any value to the Emperor.
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Old 2008-04-14, 19:00   Link #254
Narona
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Originally Posted by evil|plushie View Post
b) Kill off the Emperor himself and become the new emperor.
I really think he could kill the emperor if he needs to...
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Old 2008-04-14, 19:22   Link #255
ashlay
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Originally Posted by Narona View Post
I really think he could kill the emperor if he needs to...
I really think he couldn't hope to kill the Emperor. Besides the point Suzaku could never come in direct eye contact with him, Suzaku's also never had to fight someone who could match his physical abilities.

Even in his 60s, the Emperor looks in damn good physical condition. more than enough to wring Suzaku's scrawny little neck. >_>
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Old 2008-04-14, 21:03   Link #256
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Originally Posted by scifijimmy View Post
As for marrying into the family the best possiblity was with Euphie.
This is speculation, but from the attitudes espoused on the show I really doubt that would have happened. Oh, they could certainly have a forbidden love type thing going, with a strangely chaste but passionate romance, but if the Britannians are as heavily based on the older group as they appear to be there's NO WAY a princess marries a non-royal, and sure as hell no way someone of a different race. For all we know, Euphie's death was the only escape from an ignominious death in a nameless ditch somewhere for Suzaku.

As to Suzaku killing the Emperor, I have to point out: Does killing the president make you president? Does stabbing Chairman Mao make you the next head of China? Lelouch's plans did involve killing his father, to be sure, but that was more because Britannia would probably never dissolve while Charles lived. Or, possibly, he wanted to see his father humbled before him, who knows?
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Old 2008-04-14, 22:16   Link #257
germanturkey
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^^ thats how empires back in the day worked. you kill the head, you become the head.
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Old 2008-04-14, 22:23   Link #258
Vallen Chaos Valiant
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Originally Posted by germanturkey View Post
^^ thats how empires back in the day worked. you kill the head, you become the head.
Only if you have the backing of either the army or a powerful noble who has control of the army. Suzaku has neither. Especially since he is not a Knight of a succesor, but of the Emperor himself. Killing the Emperor as a Knight of the Round will actually weaken Suzaku's position, as the new Emperor would want his own loyal knights to be his guards. The Knights of the dead emperor would become a liability as they can't be trusted.
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Old 2008-04-14, 22:23   Link #259
scifijimmy
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It was not impossible however for non-nobility to marry into royalty as marianne was a commoner. Just highly unlikely with many MAJOR factors going against a Euphie-Suzaku match.
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Old 2008-04-14, 22:38   Link #260
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Euphemia was going to give up her royalty, however; that should have made a match between her and Suzaku possible.

Anyway, after reading through some of the old interviews, I think that Suzaku's feelings for Nunnally are stronger than his feelings for Euphemia were. It was mentioned that Suzaku sees Lelouch as just an old friend but sees Nunnally as a special person; also, the ending of Episode 25 highlighted the rivalry of Lelouch and Suzaku over Nunnally, with her image being shown after the gunshot. Hero in love with girl vs. girl's evil (kind of) brother with a siscon is a common trope in anime.
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