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Old 2008-07-04, 03:36   Link #3081
165789309
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He is a complicated character that you usually don't see. One with good intentions, unable to forgive acts of violence and is willing to fight back to stop it(total hypocrite), and twisted by the "evils" of war.

Also i can't help but feeling that when Suzaku discovers that Lelouch is Zero again, on some sort of broadcast throughout Japan that he will reveal that Zero is a brittanian prince and create complete discord throughout the Black Knights.
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Old 2008-07-04, 03:39   Link #3082
165789309
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Originally Posted by Vallen Chaos Valiant View Post
Being a man with the power to sign death warrants is much more than "just a soldier". Suzaku is supposedly part of the military elite; are you saying that he is still allowed to be excused for being "not powerful enough"?

Even if he becomes Knight of One, I still don't see Suzaku do anything. He hasn't been proactive with powers he currently has, thus I don't see how getting more power is going to change that much.

Most likely, Suzaku is just wait for the Emperor to die from old age and hoping that the replacement would be more reasonable.
Unfortunately he doesn't know about how the Emperor is planning to destroy the world and is well on his way to doing so before he dies. Also i think that the Emperor is around 54 years old, it is a wild guess but when you live long enough to have about 34 kids and multiple children from one mother. It takes a lot of time you know?
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Old 2008-07-04, 03:42   Link #3083
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Originally Posted by canis View Post
I don't really understand this...
Getting inspiration from other people in critical situations is a common plot device of getting characters out of a crisis. Lelouch had similar moments to that.
His faltering and Kallen giving him a piece of her mind on Nunnally's abduction and Tianzi's almost political wedding to a Japanese and Shirley's rant about love...
You might say it's an important way of evolving characters and strengthening their resolve in anime...



Well, we didn't have too much focus on him apart from his days as a soldier. He's going to meetings but we don't see anything about it...
He's an advisor to the emperor but we don't really know what they talk about apart from Zero...
And I'd count Knight of Seven as a milestone, and he's not stopped working for Knight of One.
At the moment he's still mostly a soldier and doesn't seem to be around often enough to involve himself deeply in politics...



He, I guess that's a good way to sum it up... They contrast each other so well, I like both of them... <.<
Although it seems Suzaku isn't doing much, it is because currently he is the soldier. While Lelouch is the tactics dude. It isn't as exciting to be the actual fighter when you can predict and watch the battle go on. Also there is a lil bit of manga of Code Geass that could give you a bit better insight on Suzaku. Its called Code Geass: Suzaku of the Counterattack
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Old 2008-07-04, 04:25   Link #3084
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My problem with Suzaku is that he's been ordered by the Emp to kill zero, yet has passed up the opportunity on at least 3 seperate occassion's. He's not very good at following orders anymore that boy.
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Old 2008-07-04, 07:39   Link #3085
Vallen Chaos Valiant
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Originally Posted by 165789309 View Post
Although it seems Suzaku isn't doing much, it is because currently he is the soldier. While Lelouch is the tactics dude. It isn't as exciting to be the actual fighter when you can predict and watch the battle go on. Also there is a lil bit of manga of Code Geass that could give you a bit better insight on Suzaku. Its called Code Geass: Suzaku of the Counterattack
Suzaku is a soldier because that's all he can do, with his talent set. If Suzaku is to ever do anything constructive, it would not be done when he leaves the military.

Saying that Suzaku can't act on his beliefs because he is a soldier is entirely contradictory to views held by Suzaku supporters; namely, that he joined the army to get into positions of power.

He might not be a Knight of One, but Suzaku is at least in the ballpark. That's more than enough power for almost anyone in Brittannia to start flexing their political muscle. But if Suzaku can't even do what he can with the level of prestige he currently has, then it is obvious he is never going to go anywhere.

There is no room for anymore excuses; Suzaku either start the ball rolling and prepare for his "great plan" right now, or it is never going to happen.
(Unless you think Zero is a muscle-bound superhero and that Nunnally is a Knighthmare pilot, I am not using the alternative universe Manga example to discuss TV characters.)
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Old 2008-07-04, 08:15   Link #3086
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vallen Chaos Valiant View Post
Suzaku is a soldier because that's all he can do, with his talent set. If Suzaku is to ever do anything constructive, it would not be done when he leaves the military.

Saying that Suzaku can't act on his beliefs because he is a soldier is entirely contradictory to views held by Suzaku supporters; namely, that he joined the army to get into positions of power.

He might not be a Knight of One, but Suzaku is at least in the ballpark. That's more than enough power for almost anyone in Brittannia to start flexing their political muscle. But if Suzaku can't even do what he can with the level of prestige he currently has, then it is obvious he is never going to go anywhere.

There is no room for anymore excuses; Suzaku either start the ball rolling and prepare for his "great plan" right now, or it is never going to happen.
(Unless you think Zero is a muscle-bound superhero and that Nunnally is a Knighthmare pilot, I am not using the alternative universe Manga example to discuss TV characters.)
He has got the ball rolling by supporting Nunnally in the formation of the SAZ . Plus he chucked out all of those dissedents from area 11. He's at least exercised his authority a little. Probably not making him too popular back in Britannia but since the Emporer said only fools wage war and the peace plan is working he's getting results.
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Old 2008-07-04, 08:19   Link #3087
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Originally Posted by ZeroSama View Post
He has got the ball rolling by supporting Nunnally in the formation of the SAZ . Plus he chucked out all of those dissedents from area 11. He's at least exercised his authority a little. Probably not making him too popular back in Britannia but since the Emporer said only fools wage war and the peace plan is working he's getting results.
Suzaku had no intention of supporting the SAZ originally. Nunnally had to pull out the Euphie card to get him in line.
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Old 2008-07-04, 08:36   Link #3088
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Originally Posted by Vallen Chaos Valiant View Post
Suzaku had no intention of supporting the SAZ originally. Nunnally had to pull out the Euphie card to get him in line.
Why wouldn't he have backed it? It improves the living standards and rights of the 11's, eaxctly what he would have done when he became Governor. All Nunnally's declaration did was advance the schedule and accelerate his plan.

Also i thought he agreed to it before she mentioned Euphie's name. When she announced it on TV he seemed shocked but when she revealed it goals he smiled as if it was a confirmation that Nunnally believed Euphie was not wrong.
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Old 2008-07-04, 09:25   Link #3089
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Originally Posted by Nanaya View Post
Oh my god, I can't believe people can be this blind. What part of becoming Knight of One is not a definite goal? What part of aiming for a protectorate/indirect rule is not a definite goal?

Corruption? So Suzaku having the power to appoint Japanese to rule themselves under his command is worse than having the Black Knights rule Japan? When they also have people like Tamaki in their ranks?

Just because you hate Suzaku doesn't mean he doesn't have a goal. He aims to become the strongest Knight because that is the only path left to him, other than govern Area 11 as Nunnally's knight-advisor. And even if you don't respect him, a lot of people in Code Geass respects him.

Even the Emperor respects the guy. Schneizel and Cornelia too. Even Suzaku's underlings in Area 11 respect him because he is power incarnate.

So don't give me that "he doesn't know what he wants" even if he blatantly announces it in front of us ever since episode 5.

EDIT:

And oh yeah, Suzaku's not trying to abolish the Imperial system, he's trying to make it tolerant of Elevens so that everyone will be equal under the Empire, instead of Britannians just trampling on Elevens' rights.
First of all, I don't think anyone has mentioned anything about corruption so far, least of all Suzaku being corrupt.

Being the Knight of One still doesn't allow the Japanese self rule, where did you get that? It is not an indirect rule because Britannia is still calling the shots, there are boundaries that the Governor General can't cross. Remember, Euphie had do give up her rights to the throne just to set up a tiny area where the Elevens can have equal rights. Which the ruling body of Britannia or the Emperor can dissolve if it suits them. And sure Suzaku would be a more lenient governor then the others but still doesn't change anything, what happens when he is gone?

Suzaku is trying to "change the system from within", he may not be trying to abolish the Imperial system but what he is doing is essentially harder then breaking it apart. He needs more then the authority of the Knight of One to accomplish this, like support from the ruling body and maybe even the power of the Emperor. And yet, Vallen Chaos Valiant summed it up nicely, he has done nothing so far other then say that the Japanese doesn't need Zero because he will become the Knight of One.

Noone is saying Suzaku isn't a respected figure in Code Geass, although I would say that the general public, the people that don't know him personally only really respect the title of Knight of Seven.

He has only said it so far though, I can say I want to work my way up to being a game designer so I can work on my own game, but if I don't have a publisher interested in funding me or much of a concept and planning I wouldn't get very far with it. Yes, he has told us very blatantly that he wishes to be the Knight of One, so how is that going to help the Japanese? What is he going to do to change the system to make it more tolerant of Numbers? What has he accomplished so far?
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Old 2008-07-04, 09:27   Link #3090
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In terms of administration, Suzaku is hardly an expert. From what it seems, Nunnally is not doing a bad job, despite being sworn in for a few eps.

He belongs in the field, not behind a desk.
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Old 2008-07-04, 09:33   Link #3091
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Originally Posted by musouka View Post
Yes, well, it is a little bit difficult when all the instances of him being proactive in his use of power magically "don't count".
Quoted for truth, and this is as far as I'm willing to go for now.
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Old 2008-07-04, 17:59   Link #3092
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Originally Posted by Vallen Chaos Valiant View Post
Suzaku had no intention of supporting the SAZ originally. Nunnally had to pull out the Euphie card to get him in line.
Are you sure? I though he was just caught off guard by Nunnally's announcement of a new SAZ, given what happened the first time. He seemed touched that Nunnally was willing to carry out Euphemia's last wish. Nunnally shares the same dream of changing Japan peacefully. I don't know much Nunnally or Suzaku have done for the Japanese, but I assume their doing something. At the very least, we know there is peace in the Area.
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Old 2008-07-04, 18:07   Link #3093
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Originally Posted by Dyllani View Post
Are you sure? I though he was just caught off guard by Nunnally's announcement of a new SAZ, given what happened the first time. He seemed touched that Nunnally was willing to carry out Euphemia's last wish. Nunnally shares the same dream of changing Japan peacefully. I don't know much Nunnally or Suzaku have done for the Japanese, but I assume their doing something. At the very least, we know there is peace in the Area.
I could be wrong about this, but I'd assume theres peace because, y'know, Zero took all of the war-mongering citizens with him.
When you only have those who were already willing to bow down and grovel, it's not much of an accomplishment that you keep them in line.
I might be wrong about who Zero took with him though, but they said the number was like one million, right? I'd assume thats mostly Japanese.
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Old 2008-07-04, 18:31   Link #3094
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Originally Posted by Verist View Post
I'm not sure why your not allowed to pick sides, like you're supposed to go perfectly down the middle.
There are different ways of going about things, you might prefer one approach over another. Britania's an expansionist power, generally not thought of as "the right side" especially to the conquered. I happen to think if I were thrust in the similar situation I would be a militant resistance. So I favor the Black Knights approach. I allow for the possibility of change from within, but don't think it is the best course of action.
like someone else said..it's perfectly fine to pick a side over the other...it's just when people bash suzaku for the same type of action that they praise LL for that pisses suzaku fans off...so far only a few people have given me good reasons why they don't like him and also they try to be objective about it

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Originally Posted by demon_god04 View Post
First of all, I don't think anyone has mentioned anything about corruption so far, least of all Suzaku being corrupt.

Being the Knight of One still doesn't allow the Japanese self rule, where did you get that? It is not an indirect rule because Britannia is still calling the shots, there are boundaries that the Governor General can't cross. Remember, Euphie had do give up her rights to the throne just to set up a tiny area where the Elevens can have equal rights. Which the ruling body of Britannia or the Emperor can dissolve if it suits them. And sure Suzaku would be a more lenient governor then the others but still doesn't change anything, what happens when he is gone?

Suzaku is trying to "change the system from within", he may not be trying to abolish the Imperial system but what he is doing is essentially harder then breaking it apart. He needs more then the authority of the Knight of One to accomplish this, like support from the ruling body and maybe even the power of the Emperor. And yet, Vallen Chaos Valiant summed it up nicely, he has done nothing so far other then say that the Japanese doesn't need Zero because he will become the Knight of One.

Noone is saying Suzaku isn't a respected figure in Code Geass, although I would say that the general public, the people that don't know him personally only really respect the title of Knight of Seven.

He has only said it so far though, I can say I want to work my way up to being a game designer so I can work on my own game, but if I don't have a publisher interested in funding me or much of a concept and planning I wouldn't get very far with it. Yes, he has told us very blatantly that he wishes to be the Knight of One, so how is that going to help the Japanese? What is he going to do to change the system to make it more tolerant of Numbers? What has he accomplished so far?
you're assuming the KoO has the same power as a governor. if they are, then suzaku is a dumbass. i could be wrong but i thought that the KoO has enough power only to be 2nd to the emperor (like i said before, i don't think the emperor will care what suzaku does with his area as long as he can explain himself or amuse him like nunally) and maybe royalty.

brittannia has a ruling body??? i've always thought it was a dictatorship

btw...can you tell me what makes you think suzaku is corrupt or explain what you mean by corrupt? i'll agree that he has changed...

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I could be wrong about this, but I'd assume theres peace because, y'know, Zero took all of the war-mongering citizens with him.
When you only have those who were already willing to bow down and grovel, it's not much of an accomplishment that you keep them in line.
I might be wrong about who Zero took with him though, but they said the number was like one million, right? I'd assume thats mostly Japanese.
not necessarily...i think the majority of the 1 million people who left are just people who wanted to get out of the country most likely no different than people who are staying in Japan. if they were war-mongering they would have already joined the OotBK and other rebellion groups. and i'd agree that all 1 million people are japanese except for diethard or whatever his name is. and yes there is peace in japan only b/c there is no one for the brittanians to fight. what is or will be an accomplishment though is the new SAZ (not sure if this is already set)...also the fact that suzaku did not let his revenge take over him when he exiled the 1 million though i will admit he was thinking about it and was pretty close to giving the order to kill everyone.

Last edited by m1thril; 2008-07-04 at 18:50.
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Old 2008-07-04, 18:39   Link #3095
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Originally Posted by m1thril View Post
that's assuming the KoO has the same power as a governor. if they do, then suzaku is a dumbass. i could be wrong but i thought that the KoO has enough power only to be 2nd to the emperor (like i said before, i don't think the emperor will care what suzaku does with his area as long as he can explain himself or amuse charles like with nunally) and maybe royalty.
The Knight of One can choose to be the Governor of any Area he chooses, that is Suzaku's reason to Lelouch, that he will manage Area 11 so the Japanese doesn't need Zero. Frankly, I doubt the Knight of One's power is second only to the Emperor's, there are still the Royals and other nobles. Euphie had to give up her claim to the throne not to her father but to appease the others. And if the Knight of One's authority is second only to the Emperor, then I would have expected Guinevere and the other royals would have spoken with more respect towards him during the meeting and he wouldn't have to remain standing.

As I said Charles may not care, but there are others in the government that do.
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Old 2008-07-04, 18:58   Link #3096
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unfortunately i won't be able to rewatch these episodes for these details until tomorrow night >.>, but can you answer my other questions??? i made some edits right before you replied
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Old 2008-07-04, 19:03   Link #3097
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I can try.

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Originally Posted by m1thril View Post
brittannia has a ruling body??? i've always thought it was a dictatorship

btw...can you tell me what makes you think suzaku is corrupt or explain what you mean by corrupt? i'll agree that he has changed...
They have a senate we know that much, and Schneizel is the Prime Minister, although the Emperor still holds the final say in everything I believe, and the nobles basically run everything.

I never said Suzaku is corrupt, far from it. You have to abuse your power in some way to be corrupt, Suzaku has not excerised his at all except during the Million Zero incident, he was even reluctant to sign a death warrant on someone that tried to kill him and had a 15 year old uninvolved girl do it for him. So, no, I don't think he is corrupt at all.
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Old 2008-07-04, 21:47   Link #3098
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Originally Posted by demon_god04 View Post
The Knight of One can choose to be the Governor of any Area he chooses, that is Suzaku's reason to Lelouch, that he will manage Area 11 so the Japanese doesn't need Zero. Frankly, I doubt the Knight of One's power is second only to the Emperor's, there are still the Royals and other nobles. Euphie had to give up her claim to the throne not to her father but to appease the others. And if the Knight of One's authority is second only to the Emperor, then I would have expected Guinevere and the other royals would have spoken with more respect towards him during the meeting and he wouldn't have to remain standing.

As I said Charles may not care, but there are others in the government that do.
Did Euphemia actually have to relinquish her rights to the throne to set up the first SAZ? From what I remember, she went to her brother to get approval first. Schneizel told her it was a great idea, and sent her on her way (I assume he meant the SAZ). If Euphemia had Schneizel's say so, short of the Emperor himself putting a stop to it, I doubt anyone would make to much fuss (even if they wanted to). Schneizel seems to have quite a bit of authority, and Cornelia certainly wouldn't have allowed anyone to force Euphie to give up her title.

Knight of One, who knows how much power he has. I'm sure in certain situations, he'd probably have more command power than most Royals. As being Governor is a reward for being Knight of One, the Emperor would allow him to manage the Area without too much interference from his children, I think. Charles respects those who are strong. As the strongest Knight of the Empire, Suzaku (if he ever bcame KoO) more than likely would be given full authority within the area, unless the Emperor tells him otherwise. Who's really going to question Empire's Strongest Knight?

Last edited by Dyllani; 2008-07-04 at 22:10.
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Old 2008-07-04, 22:11   Link #3099
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Originally Posted by Dyllani View Post
Did Euphemia actually have to relinquish her rights to the throne to set up the first SAZ? From what I remember, she went to her brother to get approval first. Schneizel told her it was a great idea, and sent her on her way (I assume he meant the SAZ). If Euphemia had Schneizel's say so, short of the Emperor himself putting a stop to it, I doubt anyone would make to much fuss (even if they wanted to). Schneizel seems to have quite a bit of authority, and Cornelia certainly wouldn't have allowed anyone to force Euphie to give up her title.

Knight of One, who know how much power he has. I'm sure in certain situations, he'd probably have more command power than most Royals. As being Governor is a reward for being Knight of One, the Emperor would allow him to manage the Area without too much interference from his children (I think). Charles respects those who are strong. As the strongest Knight of the Empire, Suzaku (if he ever bcame Ko1) more than likely be given full authority within the area, unless the Emperor tells him otherwise. Who's really going to question Empire's strongest Knight?
Euphie told Lelouch that she had to give up her rights to the throne to gain approval of the SAZ.

If the Knight of One really has more authority then Royals then why didn't Guinevere speak with more reverence to him rather then like she was speaking to a subordinate, and why did he have to remain standing while the other Royals were lounging and talking casually. Britannia is very focused on status and the adherence to it, if the Knight of One really did have a higher status then the Royals then they would have been more respectful towards him.

Euphie mentioned that she wanted to create the kinder and gentler world that Suzaku and Lelouch want, and Cornelia cautioned her by telling her that her wish would lead to the throne because she would need the power of the Emperor not the Knight of One. Governors still have boundaries and rules they have to adhere to, they are still part of Britannia and have to follow what they say. Being able to be the Governor is the reward for being Knight of One, not being able to manage that Area free from Britannia rule. Whatever the case is the Knight of One still only has the authority of a Governor within that Area.
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Old 2008-07-04, 22:26   Link #3100
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Euphie told Lelouch that she had to give up her rights to the throne to gain approval of the SAZ.
What? I remember Euphie never said she had to give up her tittle just to get SAZ approved.More like she did it because she wanted to show LL that she really wanted to help and SAZ was not a trap to catch Zero...
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