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Old 2008-07-08, 10:35   Link #3221
Ronin Aquila
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Originally Posted by yezhanquan View Post
"It is often mistaken for the Fenghuang due to similarities in appearance, but the two are different creatures. The Fenghuang is the king of birds, while the Vermilion Bird is a mythological spirit creature of the Chinese constellations."

From wiki. But still, Suzaku having this meaning in his name: Man, doesn't fit him at all.
Seconded: he has NONE of the dignity that comes with such a magnifcent and regal bird.
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Old 2008-07-08, 10:36   Link #3222
yezhanquan
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Originally Posted by Ronin Aquila View Post
Seconded: he has NONE of the dignity that comes with such a magnifcent and regal bird.
The new ED helped covinced me somewhat. Him donning black and becoming what Lulu was back in S1: a heartless, but ultimately sad, bastard.
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Old 2008-07-08, 10:40   Link #3223
ZeroSama
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Originally Posted by yezhanquan View Post
The new ED helped covinced me somewhat. Him donning black and becoming what Lulu was back in S1: a heartless, but ultimately sad, bastard.
Yes!! So much for the Lulu having black wings and being demonic and Suzaku having angel wings and being all virtuous. By that same logic Lulu is now angelic andSuzaku is evil.

I knew the truth would come out in the end.
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Old 2008-07-08, 10:40   Link #3224
Silver Soul
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Originally Posted by yezhanquan View Post
The new ED helped covinced me somewhat. Him donning black and becoming what Lulu was back in S1: a heartless, but ultimately sad, bastard.
You know I've learned not to take in OP/ED as seriously anymore do to the fact they just are a meaning to show more than anything else, we the viewer are to interpret what the actually meaning of all of it, but this is CLAMP they love to make their characters wear mismatched clothing have wings that doesn't necessarily mean anything whatsoever, besides I don't remember S1 ED being as provocative
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Old 2008-07-08, 10:41   Link #3225
yezhanquan
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Originally Posted by Silver Soul View Post
You know I've learned not to take in OP/ED as seriously anymore do to the fact they just are a meaning to show more than anything else, we the viewer are to interpret what the actually meaning of all of it, but this is CLAMP they love to make their characters wear mismatched clothing have wings that doesn't necessarily mean anything whatsoever, besides I don't remember S1 ED being as provocative
Of course, if he proves to have something soft for a head, I'll reconsider my stance.
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Old 2008-07-08, 13:00   Link #3226
Eliarine
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Originally Posted by yezhanquan View Post
"It is often mistaken for the Fenghuang due to similarities in appearance, but the two are different creatures. The Fenghuang is the king of birds, while the Vermilion Bird is a mythological spirit creature of the Chinese constellations."
Suzaku is really Geass itself.

Quote:
Originally Posted by yezhanquan View Post
The new ED helped covinced me somewhat. Him donning black and becoming what Lulu was back in S1: a heartless, but ultimately sad, bastard.
Waitaminute. I remember back when the first ED for R2 came out, people were all "oh noes! Black doesn't mean evil! In several mythologies it means good! Lelouch wearing black doesn't mean he is a bad guy at all!". Now that Suzaku is the one wearing black I see the old black = evil analysis has magically returned.
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Old 2008-07-08, 13:05   Link #3227
Orga777
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Originally Posted by Eliarine View Post
Waitaminute. I remember back when the first ED for R2 came out, people were all "oh noes! Black doesn't mean evil! In several mythologies it means good! Lelouch wearing black doesn't mean he is a bad guy at all!". Now that Suzaku is the one wearing black I see the old black = evil analysis has magically returned.
lol. That would be a contradiction wouldn't it?

Of course, does this really mean that much? I honestly don't think so. It is nice that people are trying to misinterpret hidden meanings, but this is just the ED guys. Also, you guys are thinking that ther eis only "black and white" in Code Geass? The hell is wrong with you? Everyone is in the gray area. True villains are very few and far between same with true hero. There are no Darth Vader's and no Luke Skywalker's here. Besides, Suzaku going 'evil' is NOT something I see at all. It is not in his personality.
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Old 2008-07-08, 13:08   Link #3228
ZeroSama
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eliarine View Post
Suzaku is really Geass itself.



Waitaminute. I remember back when the first ED for R2 came out, people were all "oh noes! Black doesn't mean evil! In several mythologies it means good! Lelouch wearing black doesn't mean he is a bad guy at all!". Now that Suzaku is the one wearing black I see the old black = evil analysis has magically returned.
But Lulu is good and Sazuku is evil didn't you know that? Everyones does espically Lulu fans.
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Old 2008-07-08, 13:25   Link #3229
Eliarine
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Originally Posted by Orga777 View Post
Of course, does this really mean that much? I honestly don't think so. It is nice that people are trying to misinterpret hidden meanings, but this is just the ED guys. Also, you guys are thinking that ther eis only "black and white" in Code Geass? The hell is wrong with you? Everyone is in the gray area. True villains are very few and far between same with true hero. There are no Darth Vader's and no Luke Skywalker's here. Besides, Suzaku going 'evil' is NOT something I see at all. It is not in his personality.
Agreed, agreed, and agreed. Plus, this is just typical Clamp; and last I checked they didn't know much more about the plot that us. Lelouch had his black outfit in the first ED, Suzaku had a white one, and now it's the other way around. Meaning? Mix the two, and you'll get grey in both cases. Don't look further than that.
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Old 2008-07-08, 13:37   Link #3230
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Spoiler for future ep, spoilers:
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Old 2008-07-08, 15:34   Link #3231
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Originally Posted by FlareKnight View Post
Agree that it is important that the two can at least reach some kind of resolution. Would make her death all the sadder if her actions in episode 13 didn't accomplish something. Even worse like some said it has the potential to make things between them even worse which would be completely opposite of Shirley's intentions.
They seem to be building up to the two reconcilling each other.

We know now that Suzaku has had a year to calm down and think clearly on what had happened during the black rebellion. For him he wants Lelouch to answer to him why he had to kill Euphie when he geassed him to "live". So surely he would give Lelouch a chance to clear the misunderstanding and put him to rest.

Then you add in Shirely.

At this point I'm not sure if they'll remain enemies with the way things are going. They are already going into a full blown out epic battle in Episode 18 which means we still got what? 8 more episodes left enough for another arc.
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Old 2008-07-08, 15:37   Link #3232
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Originally Posted by SoldierOfDarkness View Post
They seem to be building up to the two reconcilling each other.

We know now that Suzaku has had a year to calm down and think clearly on what had happened during the black rebellion. For him he wants Lelouch to answer to him why he had to kill Euphie when he geassed him to "live". So surely he would give Lelouch a chance to clear the misunderstanding and put him to rest.

Then you add in Shirely.

At this point I'm not sure if they'll remain enemies with the way things are going. They are already going into a full blown out epic battle in Episode 18 which means we still got what? 8 more episodes left enough for another arc.
Yeah, Suzaku is still recovering from Euphie's death but at one point he gotta give the chance to Lulu for an honest answer regarding the matter with Euphie.
And i do hope that Shirley's death will have a huge impact as well.
If there is no schedule for a season 3, then i'm counting that they will be back on good terms really soon.
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Old 2008-07-08, 15:44   Link #3233
DarkLordOfkichiku
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Well, things do seem to be looking a bit brighter for Suzaku and Lelouch - Suzaku did indeed have a year to calm down - and it's sort of hard for him to NOT think of Lelouch as a friend, it would seem. One wonders if Lelouch is taking the whole matter as calmly though - thoguh someone did point out that Sheryl may have coem to symbloize a sort of "forgiveness" theme as far as those two goes. And if the spoiler for episode 17 is true.. Well, that will/should probably be the point where they either mend their friendship or break it off for good, as I see it...
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Old 2008-07-08, 15:52   Link #3234
Daniani
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Originally Posted by skyless View Post
Yeah, Suzaku is still recovering from Euphie's death but at one point he gotta give the chance to Lulu for an honest answer regarding the matter with Euphie.
And i do hope that Shirley's death will have a huge impact as well.
If there is no schedule for a season 3, then i'm counting that they will be back on good terms really soon.
imho if the staff wants to establish a parallel between euphie's death and shirley's death to help Lelouch to patch things up with suzaku, it could give an indication that shirley was the LI of Lelouch (even if she is dead).
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Old 2008-07-08, 16:19   Link #3235
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SoldierOfDarkness View Post
They seem to be building up to the two reconcilling each other.

We know now that Suzaku has had a year to calm down and think clearly on what had happened during the black rebellion. For him he wants Lelouch to answer to him why he had to kill Euphie when he geassed him to "live". So surely he would give Lelouch a chance to clear the misunderstanding and put him to rest.

Then you add in Shirely.

At this point I'm not sure if they'll remain enemies with the way things are going. They are already going into a full blown out epic battle in Episode 18 which means we still got what? 8 more episodes left enough for another arc.
Having time to cool off is a pretty important thing. No way during the Black Rebellion was he going to be listening to any explanations. Was just too angry to think straight. Getting the whole story would be such an important step. Sure at the heart of it the mistake by Lelouch lead to Euphie's death, but its more of a tragic accident than an evil intent. The differences in how they want to exact change remain, but that isn't the major source of discord. Of course how you reconcile the selling Lelouch out to join the Knights of Round might be a bit tougher .

There will be a point coming soon that will show whether reconciliation is possible or not. Has to be a threat out there to the both of them or something they both care about. As the episodes pass things should be rather interesting.

The journey that these two have taken has been a long one. You have a point where they were as close as two friends could be. It has gone out to the furthest point which is trying to kill each other. Now the real test is whether it can make a complete circle or if that connection will just snap.
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Old 2008-07-08, 16:25   Link #3236
SoldierOfDarkness
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Originally Posted by FlareKnight View Post
Having time to cool off is a pretty important thing. No way during the Black Rebellion was he going to be listening to any explanations. Was just too angry to think straight. Getting the whole story would be such an important step. Sure at the heart of it the mistake by Lelouch lead to Euphie's death, but its more of a tragic accident than an evil intent. The differences in how they want to exact change remain, but that isn't the major source of discord. Of course how you reconcile the selling Lelouch out to join the Knights of Round might be a bit tougher .

There will be a point coming soon that will show whether reconciliation is possible or not. Has to be a threat out there to the both of them or something they both care about. As the episodes pass things should be rather interesting.

The journey that these two have taken has been a long one. You have a point where they were as close as two friends could be. It has gone out to the furthest point which is trying to kill each other. Now the real test is whether it can make a complete circle or if that connection will just snap.
Meh I'd say they are even.

Lelouch betrayed Suzaku when he geassed and killed Euphie.

Suzaku countered by capturing and bringing him in to the emperor.

With the opening and such, I don't see how they'll be main enemies towards each other (for all intents and purpose Suzaku breaks off and follows Schenzeil instead of the emperor)
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Old 2008-07-08, 16:49   Link #3237
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Originally Posted by SoldierOfDarkness View Post
Meh I'd say they are even.

Lelouch betrayed Suzaku when he geassed and killed Euphie.

Suzaku countered by capturing and bringing him in to the emperor.

With the opening and such, I don't see how they'll be main enemies towards each other (for all intents and purpose Suzaku breaks off and follows Schenzeil instead of the emperor)
Nope

Spoiler:
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Old 2008-07-08, 16:56   Link #3238
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Originally Posted by SoldierOfDarkness View Post
Meh I'd say they are even.

Now they are even. Suzaku lost Euphie, Lelouch lost Shirley.(did nobody else think those two scenes were shot identically) Suzaku learned he can't change the world with good feelings alone, and Lelouch learned that there was consequences to his actions and people suffered because of him. Both have finally been hurt equally.(up till now I considered Suzaku hurt worse because Lelouch didn't have anybody die on him) and with the truth about whats going on finally coming out theres really no reason to continue their feud anymore. If they continue to go against each other and kill one another then Euphie and Shirley died for nothing.
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Old 2008-07-08, 16:58   Link #3239
SoldierOfDarkness
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Originally Posted by Seazn View Post
Nope

Lelouch told Suzaku he'll destroy Britainnia when he was little but Suzaku joins the army regardless and HELPS Britainnia.
I don't see where your going with this.

Quote:
Lelouch saves Suzaku from execution, but he continues to go against the BoK.
Payback for saving him during the gas incident.

Quote:
Lelouch kills Euphy which is a loss for BOTH Suzaku and Lelouch. It was also unintentional so Lelouch isn't to blame as such.
So? A betrayal is a betrayal. Lelouch was already planning on betraying Euphie and Suzaku in the first place but changed at the last minute due to Euphie.

Quote:
Suzaku captures Lelouch, seperates him from Nunnally etc. etc.
As we already pointed out, the guy was a berseker, you don't think clearly at that point.

Quote:
Unlike Lelouch, Suzaku was willing enough to give Lelouch to the Emperor. Lelouch wanted to keep Suzaku alive by all means.
And Suzaku could've shot and killed Lelouch right there on the spot to avenge Euphie yet he didn't.

And Suzaku achieved what Lelouch always wanted him to do, to protect Nunnally where she now has a full fledge britannian army at her disposal.

Quote:


Suzaku FAILS to protect Shirley which Lelouch entrusted him to do.

etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc.
Not much you can do when said person sneaks and runs off on her own.

You mind elaborating the etc?

Cause really I don't give a crap about the micro details. I care about the macro, the ones that make a big difference and the events with Euphie and Shirley are the biggest ones that have hit the two the hardest.

Quote:
Basically, Suzaku is worse than Lelouch is many ways as a friend.
No he's not. These are two people who became good friends but tragic events have forced them apart into these circumstances.
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Old 2008-07-08, 16:59   Link #3240
Eliarine
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Lelouch fanboy spotted.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Seazn View Post
Lelouch told Suzaku he'll destroy Britainnia when he was little but Suzaku joins the army regardless and HELPS Britainnia.
Yeah, God forbid friends have different opinions.

Quote:
Lelouch saves Suzaku from execution, but he continues to go against the BoK.
Hint: Suzaku didn't know Zero's real identity, and he doesn't approve of Zero's methods.

Quote:
Lelouch kills Euphy which is a loss for BOTH Suzaku and Lelouch. It was also unintentional so Lelouch isn't to blame as such.
We know it wasn't intentional. Suzaku doesn't.

Quote:
Suzaku captures Lelouch, seperates him from Nunnally etc. etc.
Yeah well, if I suddenly found out my friend had a magical eye and used it to order my girlfriend to mass-murder people and dragged her name in the dirt to make himself look like a savior I probably wouldn't be offering them cookies either.

Quote:
Unlike Lelouch, Suzaku was willing enough to give Lelouch to the Emperor. Lelouch wanted to keep Suzaku alive by all means.
In Suzaku's eye at the end of Episode 25: Lelouch = bloodthirsty monster.

Quote:
Suzaku FAILS to protect Shirley which Lelouch entrusted him to do.
Lol. Not even touching that one.

Quote:
Basically, Suzaku is worse than Lelouch is many ways as a friend.
Basically, I smell bias.
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