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Old 2008-07-08, 21:14   Link #3281
Silver Soul
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yezhanquan View Post
Being the somewhat sick guy that I am, I'm surprised they haven't jumped at each other and beat each other to a bloody pulp.
Uh, Lelouch can't fight remember, him trying to punch Suzaku will be like throwing a piece of paper tough in the first episode he was able to toss Suzaku off of him
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Old 2008-07-08, 21:14   Link #3282
Rising Dragon
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Originally Posted by yezhanquan View Post
Lulu? Likeable? Since when did those two terms get linked?
They were linked for Shirley and the rest of the female body of Ashford. >_>
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Old 2008-07-08, 21:16   Link #3283
Silver Soul
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Originally Posted by Orga777 View Post
Of course not. But remember, Lloyd pointed out that Suzaku cares for human life a lot more than a soldier should (at Narita.) How often does Suzaku kill indiscriminately compared to Lelouch? He does what he has to do to get what he wants done, but he doesn't kill in cold blood. That is the difference to Suzaku and Lelouch. At least in his opinion.



Well, I will drink to that.
I think fans expect Suzaku to keep up to his word by not killing if he doesn't wish to fight while fans expect Lelouch to kill to get what he was since those are the kind of characters they are
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Old 2008-07-08, 21:18   Link #3284
demon_god04
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Originally Posted by Orga777 View Post
Of course not. But remember, Lloyd pointed out that Suzaku cares for human life a lot more than a soldier should (at Narita.) How often does Suzaku kill indiscriminately compared to Lelouch? He does what he has to do to get what he wants done, but he doesn't kill in cold blood. That is the difference to Suzaku and Lelouch. At least in his opinion.

Well, I will drink to that.
Yet all he really had done was help the Britannians oppress the people he wanted to help. He may profess to care, but likely out of a mixture of his character and guilt over what he has done. Lelouch also does what he has to do to get what he wants done, Lelouch may have sacrificed people when necessary but he doesn't go around trying to maximize casualties.
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Old 2008-07-08, 21:19   Link #3285
yezhanquan
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Originally Posted by Silver Soul View Post
Uh, Lelouch can't fight remember, him trying to punch Suzaku will be like throwing a piece of paper tough in the first episode he was able to toss Suzaku off of him
Aye. I only see that fight when Suzaku loses his superhuman abilities.
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Old 2008-07-08, 21:47   Link #3286
SoldierOfDarkness
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Originally Posted by yezhanquan View Post
Aye. I only see that fight when Suzaku loses his superhuman abilities.
Hardly.

Lelouch just sucks at physical activity, period (As if that school eps wasn't obvious enough).

If Suzaku loses his "so called powers" he'd be just a regular guy who is still well built and strong (being in the military of course)
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Old 2008-07-08, 21:56   Link #3287
yezhanquan
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Originally Posted by SoldierOfDarkness View Post
Hardly.

Lelouch just sucks at physical activity, period (As if that school eps wasn't obvious enough).

If Suzaku loses his "so called powers" he'd be just a regular guy who is still well built and strong (being in the military of course)
At least a more even playing field. And yes, Lulu should stop skipping gym classes.
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Old 2008-07-08, 22:09   Link #3288
musouka
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Originally Posted by demon_god04 View Post
Most monarchies has been changed due to revolution rather then through more peaceful methods.
"Revolutions are pointless! They just rearrange the nobility!"

I really do love how quotable Arslan Senki is...

Read a history book some time; it might help. I'll give you a hint, my anime quote is a lot truer to life than anything in Code Geass. But, I guess propaganda does work, huh?
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Old 2008-07-08, 22:09   Link #3289
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Originally Posted by Eliarine View Post
Suzaku never said nothing would come from what they are doing. Quite the contrary, in a way. He just told her he knew that when you do things the wrong way, even if you get what you wanted in the end, you end up with feelings of loss and regret.
And he's apparantly right as far as Lelouch is concerned after ep 13. Lelouch manipulative and careless ways wound up costing Shirley her life. According to the preview Lelouch agrees with him.
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Old 2008-07-08, 22:14   Link #3290
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Suzaku definitely has a method in mind for accomplishing what he wants, though, as he's stated in R2. By becoming the Knight of One, he can gain control over Area 11 and create a fair and gentle society. And with Area 11 that way, it'd become an absolute magnet for Numbers. The only way governors of other areas would be able to maintain their workforces and keep them in their respective areas would be to adopt similar, favourable policies. It's a brilliant idea, and it'd avoid the bloodshed of Lelouch's methods.
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Old 2008-07-08, 22:15   Link #3291
yezhanquan
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Quote:
Originally Posted by musouka View Post
"Revolutions are pointless! They just rearrange the nobility!"

I really do love how quotable Arslan Senki is...

Read a history book some time; it might help. I'll give you a hint, my anime quote is a lot truer to life than anything in Code Geass. But, I guess propaganda does work, huh?
I will agree that in their immediate aftermath, they are pointless. But, as time went by, they've added colour to human history. Sometimes brutal, sometimes hopeful, but never a "meaningless" adeventure.
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Old 2008-07-08, 22:20   Link #3292
Orga777
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Originally Posted by demon_god04 View Post
Yet all he really had done was help the Britannians oppress the people he wanted to help.
Not in the way you are suggesting though. He still had limited power as well.

Quote:
Lelouch also does what he has to do to get what he wants done, Lelouch may have sacrificed people when necessary but he doesn't go around trying to maximize casualties.
This is false. Narita, the JLF fiasco, and the Black Rebellion goes against that. Here is another thing. Compare that to Suzaku. When does he cause casualties in the way Lelouch does?
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Old 2008-07-08, 22:23   Link #3293
demon_god04
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Originally Posted by musouka View Post
"Revolutions are pointless! They just rearrange the nobility!"

I really do love how quotable Arslan Senki is...

Read a history book some time; it might help. I'll give you a hint, my anime quote is a lot truer to life than anything in Code Geass. But, I guess propaganda does work, huh?
You might want to look up the Age of Revolution sometime, there are certainly instances were revolutions basically just put a new dictator in charge, but I guess the American revolution was the same too huh?
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Old 2008-07-08, 22:38   Link #3294
musouka
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Originally Posted by demon_god04 View Post
You might want to look up the Age of Revolution sometime, there are certainly instances were revolutions basically just put a new dictator in charge, but I guess the American revolution was the same too huh?
The American Revolution was unusual, but what you don't seem to grasp is that it's not talking about the "leader", it's talking about nobility. The Revolution did indeed mostly just shuffle the current powers--read: rich, white landowners--without doing much of anything to help the common people.

What helps the common people? "Change in public opinion." When it no longer becomes socially acceptable to keep slaves or treat people of different races badly or beat your wife or torture people, THAT is when things improve.

Hmm, now that I think about it, I do believe there is a character on this show that is aiming for that sort of change. I can't recall his name? I think it begins with the letters Su...? Suza...? Ah, well, maybe it'll come back to me.
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Old 2008-07-08, 22:40   Link #3295
Krishh
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Just to hop into the conversation, having just registered and all, I'll write my thoughts on Suzaku even though no one really cares ^^''.

I used to dislike him during season 1, mainly because I had associated myself with Lelouch and, having not read any spoilers ever or anything, was fearing he might screw up his plans.

Retrospect, and in season 2, I've started liking Suzaku and admitting that he's probably the character that's most like myself. His methods are also safer and more realistic, if he just manages to become the knight of one. If it wasn't for me associating myself with the maincharacter, I'd definitely have been rooting for Suzaku all along.

Pretty much the short version.. Ah well, Sorry for posting something that has nothing to do with the current discussion about him.

Last edited by Krishh; 2008-07-08 at 23:23.
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Old 2008-07-08, 22:40   Link #3296
demon_god04
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Originally Posted by Orga777 View Post
Not in the way you are suggesting though. He still had limited power as well.

This is false. Narita, the JLF fiasco, and the Black Rebellion goes against that. Here is another thing. Compare that to Suzaku. When does he cause casualties in the way Lelouch does?
It may not have been his intent, but that were his results. He accepted that when he joined the army he would be a slave to his orders until he was able to work his way up, like how Lelouch realized after Narita that his actions have a greater consequence then he first realized, yet feels that sacrifices will still be necessary.

Lelouch does likely have a bigger body count then Suzaku, but he still did not look for the way that would cause the most collateral damage nor were they sacrifices without reason. He caused the landslide at Narita to break apart Cornelia's army, as a result he very nearly won by capturing the Second Princess. The second time he used the JLF as bait to lure in Cornelia's forces, he once again very nearly captured Cornelia. The Black Rebellion, depends, did Cornelia evacuate the civilians from the zones where she deployed her army? I'd believe she did in only to allow her own forces to fight more freely without fear of causing collateral damage. Bottom line, Lelouch does what he does to accomplish his goals, and he certainly does not look for ways that would maximize civilian casualties.
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Old 2008-07-08, 22:47   Link #3297
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Lelouch put his own men in an against-the-odds battle at Narita partly so he could basically weed out the weak ones and have the survivors be a "real army," as he said to himself. To that end, he definitely promoted more deaths than were necessary unless you agree with social darwinist views akin to those of Charles. And if you look at what Lelouch has actually "accomplished" so far, he's succeeded in doing nothing for his sister, and all he's done for the Elevens is get them slaughtered under Geassed Euphie's orders. I just don't see any argument for Suzaku's way being less effective than Lelouch's more casualty-heavy way.
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Old 2008-07-08, 22:48   Link #3298
Orga777
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Originally Posted by demon_god04 View Post
It may not have been his intent, but that were his results. He accepted that when he joined the army he would be a slave to his orders until he was able to work his way up, like how Lelouch realized after Narita that his actions have a greater consequence then he first realized, yet feels that sacrifices will still be necessary.
Then they are both in the same situations. Which again, makes the point moot for both sides.

Quote:
Lelouch does likely have a bigger body count then Suzaku, but he still did not look for the way that would cause the most collateral damage nor were they sacrifices without reason. He caused the landslide at Narita to break apart Cornelia's army, as a result he very nearly won by capturing the Second Princess.
He did almost win. But... he also almost got killed/captured. The thing is, did Lelouch CARE about the collateral damage at Narita? Nope. Or the fact that he killed off pretty much most of the JLF fighting force as well.

Quote:
The second time he used the JLF as bait to lure in Cornelia's forces, he once again very nearly captured Cornelia.
And again... almost got himself killed. Also, using people as bait? Seriously? Interesting choice if he wants to limit casualties....

Quote:
The Black Rebellion, depends, did Cornelia evacuate the civilians from the zones where she deployed her army? I'd believe she did in only to allow her own forces to fight more freely without fear of causing collateral damage. Bottom line, Lelouch does what he does to accomplish his goals, and he certainly does not look for ways that would maximize civilian casualties.
I am not just talking about civilians. I am talking about overall. In Season One Lelouch uses all his troops as pawns and in the Black Rebellion led them to a slaughter house that they had NO shot at winning unless he captured Cornelia (which he failed to do.) Also, Lelouch knew that all those buildings were not yet evacuated. But really, he didn't care.

Now compare it to Suzaku and how he does things. If anything Suzaku has stayed consistent. The only time is when he was in beserker mode, and even THEN he didn't really kill a whole lot.
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Old 2008-07-08, 22:53   Link #3299
FlareKnight
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In the end bloody revolutions and more peaceful methods have both had their successes. North America in itself is a good example of these things. The US got a rapid break from Britain through their revolution. But while taking more time Canada also gained its independence. Both methods got the jobs done in their own situations. A revolution wasn't likely in Canada with the particular variables at play there.

Back to Suzaku....have just been wondering about the reconciliation side of things. Even if they come to an understanding of what has passed and move away from bitter enemies still things left over. Is Suzaku going to be fighting on the side of Britannia to the bitter end? Since the opposite would be going against his plans of changes from within the current structure. Is there something dramatic enough that could make him move from that position?
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Old 2008-07-08, 23:01   Link #3300
Silver Soul
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Originally Posted by FlareKnight View Post
In the end bloody revolutions and more peaceful methods have both had their successes. North America in itself is a good example of these things. The US got a rapid break from Britain through their revolution. But while taking more time Canada also gained its independence. Both methods got the jobs done in their own situations. A revolution wasn't likely in Canada with the particular variables at play there.

Back to Suzaku....have just been wondering about the reconciliation side of things. Even if they come to an understanding of what has passed and move away from bitter enemies still things left over. Is Suzaku going to be fighting on the side of Britannia to the bitter end? Since the opposite would be going against his plans of changes from within the current structure. Is there something dramatic enough that could make him move from that position?
If he decides to join up with Schienzel or Cornelia than that's a different story since what we've seen they don't want to destroy Britannia they just want Charles out of power and since Cornelia is working on behalf of Euphie's memory than it seems more likely that he'll join her in the uprising while Schienzel on the otherhand shares Suzaku view of changing the empire's methods and with his blessings Suzaku has a better chance of achieving his goal
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