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Old 2008-07-17, 15:59   Link #3861
DarkLordOfkichiku
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bladeofdarkness View Post
would euphie want that
did she fall in love with a man driven by rage ?
a man who would do what he's trying to do to lulu ?
what hes trying to do to kallen ?
he needs to rememeber who euphie was and what she would have wanted
Well, point taken. The one Euphie fell in love with and liked was the gentle Suzaku who cared for his friends, thought that it was wrong to archieve his goals though the wrong means and wanted to save his people from suffering. Suzaku might need to remember this indeed...
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Old 2008-07-17, 16:03   Link #3862
Orga777
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Var View Post
Check out the tense I used, vs. the tense you used.
But... kallen did it in the past, so I said "made sense"... that is how it is supposed to be...<.<

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That is true, but even if she is truly gone, what is inquestion here is his relationship with Lelouch. I think the best way for that to be reaffirmed is if he remembers his time with Lelouch. If he remembers Euphemia, he might get even more emo-rage.
Or it can knock him out of it because he could remember what she truly wanted.

EDIT: Beaten to it.
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Old 2008-07-17, 16:14   Link #3863
Silver Soul
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Originally Posted by bladeofdarkness View Post
i am so hoping that he tries but he gets injected instead
just picture it (i may be fanfic-ish here)
suzaku pins kallen down and is about to inject her when she kicks the chair at him
he drops the drug and she nails him with it
and then when he's distracted by it she kicks him off of her and he lands sitting against the cell wall
she gets up and picks up whats left of the chair
she walks over to where he's sitting(in a state of delusion)
and just as she's about to smash him with the chair he calls out euphies name
kallen freezes finding herself incapable of finishing him off in this state
suzaku keeps wispering euphies name with tears in his eyes
kallen starts to tear up as well and drops the chair
she then collpses against the wall on the other side of the cell
and the scene ends with both of them sitting opposite one another in tears

suzaku has a change of hearts after his memories of euphie show him that what she really wanted was for him and lulu to be at peace
and he realises just how far off his path he has gone

the next time we see them suzaku wakes up from his trip and wonders what happend
kallen (in her best tsundere voice) tells him she was about to kill him but then he started crying about euphie and she just couldnt do it
he trys to talk to her about what happend but she just tells him to leave
end of scene

please dont kill me

Hmm...eh! I'll buy it but considering how Nunnally and Shirley has been beating the whole forgiveness vibe into his senses it's kind of funny that he had to use a drug to finally understand the meaning of it all, but this seems to be a very possible scenario (except for what it reads like Kallen completely owning Suzaku) we get to see Euphie again and Kallen may be able to understand Suzaku a little more and see the reason why he's like that......but given the context of the series he may just be interupted when he's about to do so...but we'll wait and see
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Old 2008-07-17, 16:17   Link #3864
bladeofdarkness
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Originally Posted by Silver Soul View Post

Hmm...eh! I'll buy it but considering how Nunnally and Shirley has been beating the whole forgiveness vibe into his senses it's kind of funny that he had to use a drug to finally understand the meaning of it all, but this seems to be a very possible scenario (except for what it reads like Kallen completely owning Suzaku) we get to see Euphie again and Kallen may be able to understand Suzaku a little more and see the reason why he's like that......but given the context of the series he may just be interupted when he's about to do so...but we'll wait and see

if they just get interupted then she would still hate his guts (and it would also be sunrise cheating us)

and for the record she doesnt own him
she nails him with a lucky blow with the chair (after he already has her pinned down and is about to inject her)
and after the injection he's in no state to fight
the whole point of it all is to create a scenario where she could forgive him for his actions
and by having him at her mercy and not killing him becouse she understands how much hes hurting is one way of doing it
the only other way is him almost injecting her with it and then coming to realise what he's really about to do
what the tv trope site calls a near rape expiriance ("oh my god . what am i doing" kind of thing)
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Old 2008-07-17, 16:32   Link #3865
Var
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Originally Posted by Orga777 View Post
But... kallen did it in the past, so I said "made sense"... that is how it is supposed to be...<.<
No, no. She is going to be saving him, just as Euphemia will be saving Suzaku from himself on his road of vengeance.

There's a striking number of parallels appearing here, Suzaku and Lelouch both fall down the pit, Kallen and Lelouch both face their greatest fear/hatred, Nunally is the only person that can influence all of them for the better.

Kallen will be saving Lelouch.
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Old 2008-07-17, 16:37   Link #3866
Orga777
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Originally Posted by Var View Post
No, no. She is going to be saving him, just as Euphemia will be saving Suzaku from himself on his road of vengeance.
Well yeah, but I was talking about when she snapped him out of it when he was about to use Refrain...<.<'

Quote:
There's a striking number of parallels appearing here, Suzaku and Lelouch both fall down the pit, Kallen and Lelouch both face their greatest fear/hatred, Nunally is the only person that can influence all of them for the better.
Maybe... But still I think Euphie would show up to help with the short term. Nunnally is probably a long term help.
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Old 2008-07-17, 16:38   Link #3867
Var
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Well yeah, but I was talking about when she snapped him out of it when he was about to use Refrain...<.<'
I'm just musing about the future which I can see but won't tell anyone about.

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Originally Posted by Orga777 View Post
Maybe... But still I think Euphie would show up to help with the short term. Nunnally is probably a long term help.
Well, what I mean is that, both Lelouch and Suzaku will be saved by Nunally. Whether or not it starts through Kallen and Euphemia, respectfully, is still up in the air. I think the former is almost certainly guaranteed, whereas the latter is plausible.
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Old 2008-07-17, 17:17   Link #3868
Orga777
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Originally Posted by Var View Post
I'm just musing about the future which I can see but won't tell anyone about.
Because you are evil like that.

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Well, what I mean is that, both Lelouch and Suzaku will be saved by Nunally. Whether or not it starts through Kallen and Euphemia, respectfully, is still up in the air. I think the former is almost certainly guaranteed, whereas the latter is plausible.
I agree that both Suzaku and Lelouch will be saved by Nunnally as well.

God all this discussing with this really makes me more anxious for Episode 15...<.<
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Old 2008-07-17, 17:18   Link #3869
bladeofdarkness
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Originally Posted by Orga777 View Post
Because you are evil like that.



I agree that both Suzaku and Lelouch will be saved by Nunnally as well.

God all this discussing with this really makes me more anxious for Episode 15...<.<
how sucky is it that they didnt show us shit in the preview
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Old 2008-07-17, 17:20   Link #3870
Orga777
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Originally Posted by bladeofdarkness View Post
how sucky is it that they didnt show us shit in the preview
I know. It is bad enough usually when it is just quick images flying by, but when all they show is a stilled image... I was like "WTF?!"
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Old 2008-07-17, 17:21   Link #3871
demon_god04
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Originally Posted by Orga777 View Post
I know. It is bad enough usually when it is just quick images flying by, but when all they show is a stilled image... I was like "WTF?!"
do they have an extended preview atleast?
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Old 2008-07-17, 17:24   Link #3872
Var
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Originally Posted by Orga777 View Post
Because you are evil like that.
Yes, and because your future is grim, and I didn't want to spoil it for you.

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Originally Posted by Orga777 View Post
I agree that both Suzaku and Lelouch will be saved by Nunnally as well.

God all this discussing with this really makes me more anxious for Episode 15...<.<
Yes, I too agree that Nunally will save them, I think she will directly save Suzaku from himself, and from there Suzaku and Kallen will save Lelouch.

Psh, Ep.15. I want to see Ep.25.
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Old 2008-07-17, 23:36   Link #3873
Sports72Xtrm
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Originally Posted by bladeofdarkness View Post
if they just get interupted then she would still hate his guts (and it would also be sunrise cheating us)

and for the record she doesnt own him
she nails him with a lucky blow with the chair (after he already has her pinned down and is about to inject her)
and after the injection he's in no state to fight
the whole point of it all is to create a scenario where she could forgive him for his actions
and by having him at her mercy and not killing him becouse she understands how much hes hurting is one way of doing it
the only other way is him almost injecting her with it and then coming to realise what he's really about to do
what the tv trope site calls a near rape expiriance ("oh my god . what am i doing" kind of thing)
No way can Kallen own Suzaku even with a lucky shot. Suzaku knows how to fight and how to pin people down. Lelouch couldn't even move an inch when he was brought to the emperor. And even before that when Lelouch threatened to blow everything up with a bomb attached to himself. The only way Suzaku gets refrained is if Nunally comes rolling in between the scuffle and Kallen takes advantage and indirectly almost hurts (or refrain) her. Suzaku would then attempt to take the hit for her but i don't even know if his reflexes are fast enough to do that.
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Old 2008-07-17, 23:42   Link #3874
DarkLordOfkichiku
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Originally Posted by Sports72Xtrm View Post
Suzaku knows how to fight and how to pin people down. Lelouch couldn't even move an inch when he was brought to the emperor.
Lelouch isn't a fighter though AND he was in a straitjacket at that time . Kallen has as it is now quite more freedom and she's a by far better fighter than Lelouch. That might or might not be enough, but we'll see.

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Originally Posted by Sports72Xtrm View Post
The only way Suzaku gets refrained is if Nunally comes rolling in between the scuffle and Kallen takes advantage and indirectly almost hurts (or refrain) her. Suzaku would then attempt to take the hit for her but i don't even know if his reflexes are fast enough to do that.
A lucky shoot is called a lucky shoot because it happens against all chances, so it's not impossible . but I can see it happening because he becomes distracted by Nunnally or something else indeed. Or it'd happen purely by accident soemhow...
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Old 2008-07-17, 23:43   Link #3875
morbosfist
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Your examples prove nothing. One, the bomb was set to detonate if his heart stopped. It had no effect on a fist fight. Two, Lelouch was in a straightjacket when he was brought before the Emperor. Three, Lelouch is not athletic in any sense of the worse, so Suzaku kicking his ass is meaningless.

Kallen lost to Suzaku all of once because she was naked, holding her jacket in one hand, and her knife in the other. Granted, being a dress here won't help, but she has a chance.
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Old 2008-07-17, 23:57   Link #3876
Sports72Xtrm
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Originally Posted by morbosfist View Post
Your examples prove nothing. One, the bomb was set to detonate if his heart stopped. It had no effect on a fist fight. Two, Lelouch was in a straightjacket when he was brought before the Emperor. Three, Lelouch is not athletic in any sense of the worse, so Suzaku kicking his ass is meaningless.

Kallen lost to Suzaku all of once because she was naked, holding her jacket in one hand, and her knife in the other.
1. I'll give the lelouch part.

2. Real soldiers would fight naked! It preys on their fear lol j/k....eh...Venture Bros if you don't get it....

3. I still don't see how being one handed had anything to do with a knife fight against an unarmed combatant. It's not like she struggled for a long time when he took the knife away from her, he took her down in one fool swoop.
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Old 2008-07-18, 00:02   Link #3877
morbosfist
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She charged straight at him with one hand handicapped by her attempt to cover herself. She was fighting with a disability the moment the fight started. It does not make Suzaku infinitely more badass than her, it only means he's capable of avoiding a stab like he did with that soldier is episode 8. She obviously wasn't prepared to fight back naked, and as she demonstrates with the soldiers later on in the episode, she can fight just as well as he can.
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Old 2008-07-18, 00:04   Link #3878
Aquaman OS
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Everybody except Lelouch that Suzaku's defeated in hand to hand combat has always rushed him head on in a wide open space. That's very easy to defend against. Suzaku has superhuman abilities but durability isn't one of them. If Kallen gets a hit on him it's gonna hurt. She just has to fight intelligently instead of RAHHHH CHARGE!!(like against those goons in the casino). She doesn't have the space to do that in the cell anyway.
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Old 2008-07-18, 00:08   Link #3879
Sports72Xtrm
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^ A stab isn't that much different from a jab or a punch. And those soldiers weren't Suzaku. I'm not denying she can't fight, just not as well as Suzaku. She's ok with the Gurren and its gadgets but in hand to hand Suzaku has the upper hand.
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Old 2008-07-18, 00:11   Link #3880
Sports72Xtrm
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Originally Posted by Aquaman OS View Post
Everybody except Lelouch that Suzaku's defeated in hand to hand combat has always rushed him head on in a wide open space. That's very easy to defend against. Suzaku has superhuman abilities but durability isn't one of them. If Kallen gets a hit on him it's gonna hurt. She just has to fight intelligently instead of RAHHHH CHARGE!!(like against those goons in the casino). She doesn't have the space to do that in the cell anyway.
Intelligence isn't exactly Kallen's strong suit. Also she's under combat stress and pressure so she's not gonna map out a plan on how to beat Suzaku.
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