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Old 2008-07-20, 06:04   Link #3961
ZeroSama
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DN24 View Post
Because truth serum don't exist in CG's world,because the "truth serum named geass" is the only proper truth serum around,and refrain is the only things that can force a tough prisoners like Kallen to talk about what she doesn't want to...
Now you see this is wrong. Scorpalmine(sp?) is a very effect truth serum. It may have some very horrendous side effects, like turning you into a vegetable but it works and has been around since WW2 at least.
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Old 2008-07-20, 06:07   Link #3962
DarkLordOfkichiku
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Originally Posted by ZeroSama View Post
Now you see this is wrong. Scorpalmine(sp?) is a very effect truth serum. It may have some very horrendous side effects, like turning you into a vegetable but it works and has been around since WW2 at least.
This?:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scopolamine
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Old 2008-07-20, 06:09   Link #3963
incorrupts
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ZeroSama View Post
Now you see this is wrong. Scorpalmine(sp?) is a very effect truth serum. It may have some very horrendous side effects, like turning you into a vegetable but it works and has been around since WW2 at least.
LOL
So that would be better than refrain huh?
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Old 2008-07-20, 06:10   Link #3964
DN24
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Now you see this is wrong. Scorpalmine(sp?) is a very effect truth serum. It may have some very horrendous side effects, like turning you into a vegetable but it works and has been around since WW2 at least.
We have no proof of its existence in CG's world
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Old 2008-07-20, 07:01   Link #3965
Airi
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Originally Posted by Orga777 View Post
Suzaku fans win again! I congratulate everyone that stuck through and didn't join the Bashers Banwagon.
Yes! We won.....for now!
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Old 2008-07-20, 07:45   Link #3966
Discerptor
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ZeroSama View Post
Now you see this is wrong. Scorpalmine(sp?) is a very effect truth serum. It may have some very horrendous side effects, like turning you into a vegetable but it works and has been around since WW2 at least.
Scopolamine's performance is hit-or-miss at best, and the drastic effects it has on (on the surface) unrelated brain functions makes it really damn unlucky for you if you "miss," because you won't be able to get any information out of the person at all for a while. It's not something reliable or lacking in side effects enough to be used as anything but a last resort. Of course, all drugs that are purported to work as "truth serum" take the same basic approach and knock out a bunch of brain functions that lying is hopefully related to, so they all have rather bad side effects. There is no such thing as a reasonably reliable truth serum either in our world or Code Geass's. They're meant to be used as last resorts, and only if you don't particularly care about what happens to the person you're administering it to, which clearly isn't the case between Suzaku and Kallen.

As far as I can tell, Refrain's only harmful side effect seems to be its addictive nature, which Suzaku could certainly put a check on by just not giving it to Kallen again after the first time.
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Old 2008-07-20, 09:51   Link #3967
SoldierOfDarkness
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Whoa so looks like one of my possibilities turned out true.

Quote:
4. Suzaku decides not to do it
At least he had the idea of checking out the secret service.
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Old 2008-07-20, 10:51   Link #3968
Diedrupo
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Originally Posted by Var View Post
Now I simply question his logic in choosing a plan that had a likelihood of 0 to work, and that he didn't even have the gall to pull off. Wouldn't truth serum have been easier and far less scaring to Kallen?
Yes but using refrain is far more dramatic, and I'm sure that's the effect storywriters would prefer to have.

You've really thought WAY too much about this. The bottomline is that he stuck to his morals, so people hating on him for attempting this in the first place aren't vindicated.
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Old 2008-07-20, 10:58   Link #3969
demon_god04
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Originally Posted by Orga777 View Post
Suzaku fans win again! I congratulate everyone that stuck through and didn't join the Bashers Banwagon.
Win? How? We were not just pointlessly bashing Suzaku, we just think that the fact that he thinks refrain is a viable truth serum is stupid. And that the action had little meaning other then to take his anger on Lelouch on the closest target. So he did not use it but that does not make the idea any less moronic. Just means that he stuck to the ideals that made him choose the path is is walking on, which I do give him props for.
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Old 2008-07-20, 11:04   Link #3970
morbosfist
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Yes, one must give him props for sticking to his morals and actually thinking out a more intelligent method of revealing Lelouch's deception. Though the Refrain threat itself is a bit much, at least he decided better. Now I just have to return to my marginal annoyance at his naivete in regards to his beliefs. Sigh.
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Old 2008-07-20, 13:53   Link #3971
Majek
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The only morons here are people who think they know more about a fictional anime drug than an anime character.
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Old 2008-07-20, 13:56   Link #3972
Witacume
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Majek View Post
The only morons here are people who think they know more about a fictional anime drug than an anime character.
wow who is the anime Character? i'm not sure have you met this so called anime character. it be interesting to meet this 2d person as i have yet to meet someone of that kind. /sarcasm

I think they are basing these ideas not on just a whime but fact given in the anime.
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Old 2008-07-20, 14:06   Link #3973
Majek
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Originally Posted by Witacume View Post
wow who is the anime Character? i'm not sure have you met this so called anime character. it be interesting to meet this 2d person as i have yet to meet someone of that kind. /sarcasm

I think they are basing these ideas not on just a whime but fact given in the anime.
It doesn't hurt to think before you type you know. Helps a lot to make sense and not look like a 5year old trying to pull of sarcasm.

They're forcing to accept others only their interpretation of what was shown and at the same time deny that anything else is possible, because it wasn't shown. It can't work therefore it is moronic, stupid, whatever. No other explanation possible.

The writers choose him to use it, therefore it must have been a viable option for him to gain what he wanted.
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Old 2008-07-20, 14:12   Link #3974
Witacume
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Majek View Post
It doesn't hurt to think before you type you know. Helps a lot to make sense and not look like a 5year old trying to pull of sarcasm.

They're forcing to accept others only their interpretation of what was shown and at the same time deny that anything else is possible, because it wasn't shown. It can't work therefore it is moronic, stupid, whatever. No other explanation possible.

The writers choose him to use it, therefore it must have been a viable option for him to gain what he wanted.
For the first part, I didn't know 5 year olds could type. That must be one amazing 5 year old.

For the second part maybe you are right, but you can be wrong. Maybe they wanted him to look like a total jackass. i don't know, neither do you. Instead the earlier people are basing their ideas on information given about the drug. Maybe Suzaku rage is making him think irrationally that is also an possibility.
So do not dismiss their ideas as moronic.
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Old 2008-07-20, 14:27   Link #3975
Majek
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The way it was shown in anime, it can only be "fact" that it would've worked. Of course i don't know what could happen, but they wrote their "facts" with 100% certainty of failure,... that is moronic, no matter how you look at it.
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Old 2008-07-20, 14:28   Link #3976
demon_god04
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Majek View Post
It doesn't hurt to think before you type you know. Helps a lot to make sense and not look like a 5year old trying to pull of sarcasm.

They're forcing to accept others only their interpretation of what was shown and at the same time deny that anything else is possible, because it wasn't shown. It can't work therefore it is moronic, stupid, whatever. No other explanation possible.

The writers choose him to use it, therefore it must have been a viable option for him to gain what he wanted.
Might want to avoid the name calling, perhaps it might help you to actually understand the point we were making before posting.

Noone has denied that refrain could work, only that everything we have been shown about the drug says it had a very small chance to, too small to be used as a viable truth serum. Using it with the intention of getting specific information out of anyone is stupid. Just because a dumb idea has a small chance of working doesn't make the idea any less stupid. If it works it just means you lucked out, not that it was a great idea.
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Old 2008-07-20, 14:35   Link #3977
Majek
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We haven't been shown any first time users.
We haven't been shown what happens with different dosages.
We haven't been shown everything there is too know.
They left enough room for any kind of effect.

So who here has stupid/dumb/whatever ideas? sheesh.
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Old 2008-07-20, 14:35   Link #3978
FlareKnight
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At any rate I'm satisfied that he didn't go with it. Possible that it could have been used for such a purpose. But since I'm not a medical professional from that series there's no way I know for sure. He's not a genius, but doubt he'd just use it without having any information. Not like he grabbed Advil and thought it would be a truth pill . Anyways, it wasn't used and the viability of it for interrogation will likely never be brought up in the series again. Really doesn't matter one way or the other if it would have worked.

Of course Suzaku would have people on his back no matter what he'd do. If he actually had used it you wouldn't see "Nice job having the guts to give a prisoner a drug Suzaku!" Found another method to get his information and everything turned out alright.

Interesting with his connection to Lelouch. Doesn't want to use refrain that would take Kallen's will away, but Nunnally says he's like Lelouch probably in how he's keeping secrets. Both didn't tell her everything that is going on and are trying to protect her. Suzaku can't report what he knows about Lelouch since he feels it will put Nunnally in danger. Though Charles knows about it anyways.
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Old 2008-07-20, 14:40   Link #3979
Diedrupo
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Quote:
Originally Posted by demon_god04 View Post
Might want to avoid the name calling, perhaps it might help you to actually understand the point we were making before posting.

Noone has denied that refrain could work, only that everything we have been shown about the drug says it had a very small chance to, too small to be used as a viable truth serum. Using it with the intention of getting specific information out of anyone is stupid. Just because a dumb idea has a small chance of working doesn't make the idea any less stupid. If it works it just means you lucked out, not that it was a great idea.
Er but if you watched Episode 15, every bit of evidence is there that it WOULD have worked (based on what Suzaku says). Just because the storywriters didn't fully explain how refrain works in previous episodes does not mean you can draw such conclusions and present them as facts.
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Old 2008-07-20, 14:48   Link #3980
Captain Zechs
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The thing that really upsets me about Suzaku in 15.

While I am happy that he indeed didn't use the Refrain, because that would have been low, I thought it was just as bad that his reasoning for not using it was to not become like Lelouch. Why on Earth is he so high with his morals? It is rather ridiculous that he hides behind Euphemia all the time, and blames Lelouch for practically every little thing. Lelouch isn't that bad, he does what needs to be done, and he admits to his mistakes and the blood he has taken, Suzaku simply stands on his morals. He shouldn't have used refrain on her simply because it was wrong, not because he'd 'be like Lelouch'.
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