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Old 2008-04-18, 21:29   Link #381
KrimzonStriker
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dom33 View Post
tch er I was saying lelouch was stronger than suzaku! can't you let the past go?
You're the one accusing me of forgetting stuff
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Old 2008-04-18, 21:43   Link #382
Sol Falling
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look, would you really say something like "your existance is a mistake!" to somebody you're taking revenge on because they killed your girlfriend? That doesn't make any sense. More likely you would be saying stuff like 'you piece of sh*t' and 'give her back' and 'I'm gonna cut off your fingers, ears, and nose one by one, then rip your skin off in little pieces, then pour gasoline into your eyes and set fire to your hair so you can wait for the flame to reach your eyes and then eventually your brain while you scream in agony'. Suzaku isn't taking revenge for Euphie. At all. Didn't you notice? All thoughts and words of him killing Zero in revenge disappeared the moment Suzaku found out he was Lelouch. At that point in time he is thinking about what Lelouch has done and why he has done it, and that is what leads to him rejecting Lelouch (yeah, rejecting. That's what Suzaku is doing, nothing else. Suzaku is rejecting Lelouch's very existance, saying that he is something that shouldn't exist in this world, and he's not saying that for his past, he's saying that for what he believes to be everybody's future.) so utterly and completely. Suzaku doesn't want to kill Lelouch. He understands him (or believes he does, and you can't fault him at all for what he sees Lelouch as being--again, see the sound episode I linked above). Suzaku may even think that he created him, this Lelouch, the Lelouch he sees before his eyes. That's why he does what he does.
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Old 2008-04-18, 21:45   Link #383
KrimzonStriker
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Bull, that's all I have to say, because he always spouts nonsense like that even though that's not why he's really doing it. If you're telling me Euphie wasn't the reason I've got a nice house in Siberia I want to sell you
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Old 2008-04-18, 22:14   Link #384
Sol Falling
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lol really now. hm...I'll buy it for a dollar!

Yes, that's what I'm telling you, because doing it for Euphie's sake is the thing that wouldn't make sense. Seriously, if you tried looking a little harder Suzaku's actions wouldn't appear nearly so nonsensical.
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Old 2008-04-18, 22:19   Link #385
KrimzonStriker
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Once again I say bull, like I do every time Suzaku starts speaking
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Old 2008-04-18, 22:19   Link #386
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I've looked at Suzaku's actions plenty, from a lot of the different perspectives that have been suggested.

And he still comes across as quite nonsensical to me.
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Old 2008-04-18, 23:03   Link #387
Blue_Mercy
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[QUOTE=Sol Falling;1544609]look, would you really say something like "your existance is a mistake!" to somebody you're taking revenge on because they killed your girlfriend? That doesn't make any sense. More likely you would be saying stuff like 'you piece of sh*t' and 'give her back' and 'I'm gonna cut off your fingers, ears, and nose one by one, then rip your skin off in little pieces, then pour gasoline into your eyes and set fire to your hair so you can wait for the flame to reach your eyes and then eventually your brain while you scream in agony'.
[quote]

Having a situation like that it's hard to imagine how anyone would react. So guessing on it is hard to do.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sol Falling View Post
Suzaku isn't taking revenge for Euphie. At all.
Didn't you notice? All thoughts and words of him killing Zero in revenge disappeared the moment Suzaku found out he was Lelouch. At that point in time he is thinking about what Lelouch has done and why he has done it, and that is what leads to him rejecting Lelouch (yeah, rejecting. That's what Suzaku is doing, nothing else. Suzaku is rejecting Lelouch's very existance, saying that he is something that shouldn't exist in this world, and he's not saying that for his past, he's saying that for what he believes to be everybody's future.) so utterly and completely. Suzaku doesn't want to kill Lelouch. He understands him (or believes he does, and you can't fault him at all for what he sees Lelouch as being--again, see the sound episode I linked above). Suzaku may even think that he created him, this Lelouch, the Lelouch he sees before his eyes. That's why he does what he does.
Wow, that's definitely wrong. Ever since Euphie's death, Suzaku states that "time stopped in his heart". It is Lelouch that filled him with hatred, Suzaku had already guessed that Lelouch was Zero even before he shot off the helmet. He didn't kill Lelouch because he wants Lelouch to suffer, it's just by taking him as Zero to the Emperor he's able to get a reward for himself also. 2 birds with one stone. He didn't know what the Emperor would do to Lelouch could be public execution, imprisonment, torture.

That being said I actually do feel pity for Suzaku's character as I have no doubt he is going to get alot of suffering this season and probably death assuming it is only a 50 episode series.
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Old 2008-04-18, 23:14   Link #388
Revolutionist
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I think death by public execution would be perfect for Suzaku. The only way I'd like the guy is if he took a gun and blew his brains out.
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Old 2008-04-18, 23:40   Link #389
Sol Falling
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hahaha. :P You know who I feel sorry for? All the Suzaku hater's, 'cause they're never gonna get what they want from the actual show. Suzaku may be an antagonist, but never has he been shown to be a bad person. You'd be deluding yourself to think that the writers are going to give him any kind of ending which degrades his character or his resolutions.
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Old 2008-04-18, 23:42   Link #390
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The director himself says Suzaku is a shod, how much more evidence do you need that Suzaku is meant to be hated?
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Old 2008-04-18, 23:54   Link #391
evil|plushie
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Why would someone need to be a bad person for someone to dislike them? I mean, people can just easily dislike Suzaku because he's preachy, self-righteous, annoying, godhax, really really idiotic etc.
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Old 2008-04-19, 00:03   Link #392
Aquaman OS
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Originally Posted by KrimzonStriker View Post
The director himself says Suzaku is a shod, how much more evidence do you need that Suzaku is meant to be hated?
I don't recall Taniguchi encouraging people to hate him and constantly call for his death. He merely said that Suzaku isn't what he seemed to be. In other words Suzaku was a flawed character, like just about everyone else in the show.
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Old 2008-04-19, 00:24   Link #393
Var
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The call for death probably comes more from his character archetype and silly bias hatred by fans. Characters of this type tend to eventually die, whether or not they are redeemed is usually what it comes down to. Though, if CG follows the current route, I don't see Suzaku being redeemed, though I don't necessarily see him dieing either. (But then I didn't see Euphie dieing even with all the foreshadowing.)

Every character is flawed, yes, but most of them are able to admit to that, Suzaku... is resistant to changing his methods. He's overall inert.
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Old 2008-04-19, 00:29   Link #394
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Yeah you steer him in that one direction and he'll just bulldoze his way through.

But again it goes back to what Toudo taught him, if you decide on that path then you must see it to the end regardless.

Isn't Lelouch doing the same? He's plowing his way for his objective to the end and hasn't changed anything at all.

Neither has changed his methods (Though the former one is a tad ridiculous mind you).
It could be the part that Suzaku has drawn himself into a corner and has only one path to follow. I mean after Season 1 I had trouble imaging what the heck Suzaku was going to be doing for Season 2 and still am.
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Old 2008-04-19, 00:34   Link #395
Var
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Yeah you steer him in that one direction and he'll just bulldoze his way through.

But again it goes back to what Toudo taught him, if you decide on that path then you must see it to the end regardless.

Isn't Lelouch doing the same? He's plowing his way for his objective to the end and hasn't changed anything at all.

Neither has changed his methods (Though the former one is a tad ridiculous mind you).

But then again it could be the part that Suzaku has drawn himself into a corner and has only one path to follow. I mean after Season 1 I had trouble imaging what the heck Suzaku was going to be doing for Season 2 and still am.
Suzaku and Lelouch diverge in that, Suzaku won't stop, but Lelouch will and did. Lelouch put down everything for Nunally. Suzaku opted to sell out his friend, Lelouch opted to save his friend (referring to Suzaku). They are quite polar.

You could say that Lelouch hasn't changed anything, but he has given people actual hope. Suzaku really hasn't accomplished that for longer than a fraction of an episode.

I'll agree that they haven't changed their methods, but, as you said, one is far more ridiculous than the other.

I'm with the idea that Suzaku will do what he's made his life into, and eventually either die with his lies or something quite bad will happen to him. Either way, he's lost his homeland forever. There's no plot point that could, that I can see, reconcile Japan and Suzaku.
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Old 2008-04-19, 00:39   Link #396
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Which doesn't really matter. Suzaku would want to stay with Britannia til the end anyway. And while the Emperor will probably lose I don't think there will be a Britannian genocide or destruction or anything like that.

If Suzaku does die on the other hand, it will not be a happy occasion. I don't think anyone in show will cheer or anything like that. Lelouch will no doubt be crying not laughing at his corpse.
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Old 2008-04-19, 00:43   Link #397
Var
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Which doesn't really matter. Suzaku would want to stay with Britannia til the end anyway. And while the Emperor will probably lose I don't think there will be a Britannian genocide or destruction or anything like that.

If Suzaku does die on the other hand, it will not be a happy occasion. I don't think anyone in show will cheer or anything like that. Lelouch will no doubt be crying not laughing at his corpse.
Suzaku's ideals only last as long as the current leadership lasts, there's no guarantee that the new world will have any use for his twisted logic and ideals. He'd lose his purpose if the Emperor lost.

No one said it'd be a happy occasion, but it is a possible one.
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Old 2008-04-19, 01:22   Link #398
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Suzaku is doing it for revenge. What he is trying to do, and this becomes clear in the last picture book, is , make it seem that he isn't doing it for revenge. He claims he is doing it for the sake of Euphemia and Nunnally when really he is doing it for himself.
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Old 2008-04-19, 01:46   Link #399
ashlay
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Originally Posted by Dann of Thursday View Post
Suzaku is doing it for revenge. What he is trying to do, and this becomes clear in the last picture book, is , make it seem that he isn't doing it for revenge. He claims he is doing it for the sake of Euphemia and Nunnally when really he is doing it for himself.
I wouldn't call what Suzaku's doing revenge though.

Suzaku has simply decided to judge the world as he sees fit, and he's decided that the system should remain. Now is that simply because he can't forgive Lelouch for Euphie? maybe. Is it a knowingly selfish act? yes. But it's nothing as simple as mere revenge on Lelouch.
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Old 2008-04-19, 01:48   Link #400
Dann of Thursday
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Oh, I agree that it is much more than just simple revenge. I'd say that Euphemia may have been the final straw with him at this point though.
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