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Old 2008-09-15, 17:21   Link #7101
morbosfist
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Originally Posted by wingdarkness View Post
Again, his shift has been so weird to me I just don't know how to feel...It's like he's changed dramatically yet he proceeds in the exact same manner...
That's because, regardless of who he's working for or how he's going about it, Suzaku seems to prioritize the rules/plan over all else. However, with only two episodes to go, maybe he'll get sidelined by the end of this and just have to watch the world do without him.
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Old 2008-09-15, 17:30   Link #7102
Orga777
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You may have faltered in the face of true glory, but Schneizel won me over in this latest episode. It's a shame that I'll have to kill you now.

Oh, and to stay on topic, the new Suzaku is apparently less spineless than Lelouch... and just as much of a jerk. Wonderful.
Yeah... yeah... I still think Schneizel replaced Suzaku as my favorite character, Crazy Insane antics or not. He is just too freaking AWESOME for me to dislike in anyway. I don't agree with what he does, but I can't help but laugh and clap.

I know he probably won't win, but I still have faith he and Lelouch will come to what will amount to a understanding or forgiveness. It is my only hope for him to NOT stay insane.

And yes, Suzaku is definitely more resolved now. Although I don't know if that is a good thing still.
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Old 2008-09-15, 17:36   Link #7103
Revolutionist
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Suzaku's come to understand Lelouch, and who better to side with after he rejected Charles' plan than his best friend? He's come to the realization that if you want something bad, you need to work hard for it and sometimes you might have to get your hands dirty. W/e the Zero Requiem is it's probably better than whatever Schneizel has planned. You have to remember that there was a month in between their pact and them taking power. This was most likely due to them waiting to gather info about Schneizel and what he'd do.

The mass geassing of armies is a necessary evil, and keep in mind that all it really does is ensure absolute loyalty to Lelouch. It doesn't make them mindless slaves as they still keep their humanity. You saw that guy charge Todou in his disabled Gareth with the geass activated, but Britannia's soldiers are like that (look at ep 24 of S1 where some guy sacrifices himself to protect Cornelia)...
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Old 2008-09-15, 18:00   Link #7104
El_Negro
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Well to me it feels as though they did a complete change with Suzku, now he's all gunho doesn't give a fuck and he's all 4 the plan. That and the fact that he'll eliminate all of Lelouch's weaknesses got me scared that in the Final Confrontation with Kallen, he just might end up killing her for getting in the way of plan "Zero Requiem"
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Old 2008-09-15, 18:04   Link #7105
bladeofdarkness
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Well to me it feels as though they did a complete change with Suzku, now he's all gunho doesn't give a fuck and he's all 4 the plan. That and the fact that he'll eliminate all of Lelouch's weaknesses got me scared that in the Final Confrontation with Kallen, he just might end up killing her for getting in the way of plan "Zero Requiem"
which is why i think at the time of their fight kallen would already be aware of their plan (or at least part of it)
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Old 2008-09-15, 18:06   Link #7106
morbosfist
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He'll probably try, but if he really wants her dead just so Lelouch will stick to the plan, that's a recipe for him to lose. That will mark the point where he's more harmful than helpful.
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Old 2008-09-15, 18:10   Link #7107
bladeofdarkness
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Originally Posted by morbosfist View Post
He'll probably try, but if he really wants her dead just so Lelouch will stick to the plan, that's a recipe for him to lose. That will mark the point where he's more harmful than helpful.
we know he wont face her before the part in the hanger (only after
and we know lulu has to walk out of there alive somehow
so if she doesnt stop herself from killing him i dont see anything else (since even if C.C intefeares, the guren is right between lulu and the shinkiro)
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Old 2008-09-15, 18:38   Link #7108
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Well to me it feels as though they did a complete change with Suzku, now he's all gunho doesn't give a fuck and he's all 4 the plan. That and the fact that he'll eliminate all of Lelouch's weaknesses got me scared that in the Final Confrontation with Kallen, he just might end up killing her for getting in the way of plan "Zero Requiem"
She's annoying as hell at this point, almost Ougi-level annoying. The best thing that could happen is for her to die at Suzaku's hands. If anyone can help her attone for her sins it's Suzaku.
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Old 2008-09-15, 18:42   Link #7109
KrimzonStriker
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She's annoying as hell at this point, almost Ougi-level annoying. The best thing that could happen is for her to die at Suzaku's hands. If anyone can help her attone for her sins it's Suzaku.
Personally, I don't really care what happens to Kallen anymore nor most of the Order for that matter, so long as she doesn't screw over Zero Requiem, and as such I give Suzaku my blessing to use whatever means necessary to prevent her from doing so >_>
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Old 2008-09-15, 19:35   Link #7110
SoldierOfDarkness
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Originally Posted by Revolutionist View Post
The mass geassing of armies is a necessary evil, and keep in mind that all it really does is ensure absolute loyalty to Lelouch. It doesn't make them mindless slaves as they still keep their humanity. You saw that guy charge Todou in his disabled Gareth with the geass activated, but Britannia's soldiers are like that (look at ep 24 of S1 where some guy sacrifices himself to protect Cornelia)...
THey still retain their minds though, those two soldiers were talking normally about how the capital was wiped out before Jeremiah came in and put a stop to that.

So no they aren't mindless.

Quote:
He'll probably try, but if he really wants her dead just so Lelouch will stick to the plan, that's a recipe for him to lose. That will mark the point where he's more harmful than helpful.
She doesn't even know the ******* plan so how the heck can she persuade him off of it in the first place when this plan needs to come in anyways? Nunnally is Lelouch's weakness, not Kallen.

Cecile and Lloyd know the full details of the plan and joined it out of their own conscious. What's to say Kallen wouldn't join up if she found out what it really is?
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Old 2008-09-15, 19:38   Link #7111
morbosfist
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She doesn't even know the ******* plan so how the heck can she persuade him off of it in the first place when this plan needs to come in anyways?

Cecile and Lloyd know the full details of the plan and joined it out of their own conscious.
What choice did Cecile and Lloyd have? Lloyd only cares about his research and Ceclie just goes where he goes. As for Kallen, you really need to get off her not knowing. She can find out. She'll have a chance to talk to Lelouch next episode, and that's where she can learn. Honestly, look ahead a little. Just because she doesn't know now doesn't mean she's ignorant for all eternity.
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Old 2008-09-15, 19:46   Link #7112
SoldierOfDarkness
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Originally Posted by morbosfist View Post
What choice did Cecile and Lloyd have? Lloyd only cares about his research and Ceclie just goes where he goes. As for Kallen, you really need to get off her not knowing. She can find out. She'll have a chance to talk to Lelouch next episode, and that's where she can learn. Honestly, look ahead a little. Just because she doesn't know now doesn't mean she's ignorant for all eternity.
Given the fact that Lelouch didn't had to geass them the plan obviously is not set on amargeddon that would destroy the world. They are in this 100%. If they had doubts I would like you to point them out.

ANd exactly what's to stop Kallen from joining Lelouch and becoming his second shield if she finds out what the plan is? She wants to stop him and help Schenziel. There is no way he is going to let that happen.

Quote:
As for Kallen, you really need to get off her not knowing. She can find out. She'll have a chance to talk to Lelouch next episode, and that's where she can learn. Honestly, look ahead a little. Just because she doesn't know now doesn't mean she's ignorant for all eternity.
Honestly this is a show, there is no way in hell she is going to get an explanation of the plan in 5 seconds before she fries Lelouch. That's not how the shows work.

And I'd be a little upset if Lelouch buckles under the threat and explains everything in detail when there are things exploding all over him and he needs to sortie to stop Schenziel.
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Old 2008-09-15, 20:02   Link #7113
morbosfist
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Originally Posted by SoldierOfDarkness View Post
Given the fact that Lelouch didn't had to geass them the plan obviously is not set on amargeddon that would destroy the world. They are in this 100%. If they had doubts I would like you to point them out.
When they are walking down that long hallway. They have their doubts, but as Lloyd points out, they're parts of the machine now.

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Originally Posted by SoldierOfDarkness View Post
ANd exactly what's to stop Kallen from joining Lelouch and becoming his second shield if she finds out what the plan is? She wants to stop him and help Schenziel. There is no way he is going to let that happen.
No, she just wants to stop him, and that's all she wants. You're making this nonsense about helping Schneizel up. As for her becoming a second shield, maybe she will, maybe she won't. I'm sure they'll have a good reason.

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Honestly this is a show, there is no way in hell she is going to get an explanation of the plan in 5 seconds before she fries Lelouch. That's not how the shows work.
Considering that she's taking the time to aim, it doesn't mean she's going to fry him without a second thought. Thus, he'll have plenty of time to let her in. You're jumping to the worst case scenario for the sake of your argument, when obviously it isn't going to go down like that since she's crying in that scene.

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And I'd be a little upset if Lelouch buckles under the threat and explains everything in detail when there are things exploding all over him and he needs to sortie to stop Schenziel.
It's not like he's going anywhere with Kallen standing in the way. No one is going to shoot her while she's in the hanger, nor will they do anything that would risk harming Lelouch. He's at her mercy, so he can spare the time to talk.
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Old 2008-09-15, 21:53   Link #7114
SoldierOfDarkness
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Originally Posted by morbosfist View Post
No, she just wants to stop him, and that's all she wants. You're making this nonsense about helping Schneizel up. As for her becoming a second shield, maybe she will, maybe she won't. I'm sure they'll have a good reason.
Last I checked Kallen is fighting for Schenzeil so her stopping Lelouch means that Schenzeil wins. I mean what part of her saying "Stop lelouch will end this" did you not understand?

Quote:
Considering that she's taking the time to aim, it doesn't mean she's going to fry him without a second thought. Thus, he'll have plenty of time to let her in. You're jumping to the worst case scenario for the sake of your argument, when obviously it isn't going to go down like that since she's crying in that scene.
No I'm expecting someone to intervene to give Lelouch the opening he needs to get out of there and onto Damocoles with his troops (hence the scene we see of Shiniko leading a squad of Wards to attack Damaocles and him fighting the Tristan).

Quote:
It's not like he's going anywhere with Kallen standing in the way. No one is going to shoot her while she's in the hanger, nor will they do anything that would risk harming Lelouch. He's at her mercy, so he can spare the time to talk.
Seriously, when was the last time Lelouch spoke truthfully under the gun? He shoved Kallen off twice and I don't see him buckling just to spill the beans.
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Old 2008-09-15, 21:56   Link #7115
morbosfist
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Last I checked Kallen is fighting for Schenzeil so her stopping Lelouch means that Schenzeil wins. I mean what part of her saying "Stop lelouch will end this" did you not understand?
Only for the moment, and none of the Black Knights agree with his methods. They just see Lelouch as the bigger problem.

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Seriously, when was the last time Lelouch spoke truthfully under the gun? He shoved Kallen off twice and I don't see him buckling just to spill the beans.
He could have lied to her the last time they spoke, he didn't. He didn't have to say anything when he pushed her away on the Ikaruga, yet he did. Why would he buckle? Because he isn't willing to lie to her anymore, and the fact that she's got him cornered is all the more reason to start being honest.
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Old 2008-09-15, 21:58   Link #7116
SoldierOfDarkness
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Originally Posted by morbosfist View Post
Only for the moment, and none of the Black Knights agree with his methods. They just see Lelouch as the bigger problem.
Right so defeating Lelouch does not give Schenziel his victory despite the fact that she is fighting on his side If Lelouch loses that fight he loses his chance to bring in his ideal world.

Quote:
He could have lied to her the last time they spoke, he didn't. He didn't have to say anything when he pushed her away on the Ikaruga, yet he did. Why would he buckle? Because he isn't willing to lie to her anymore, and the fact that she's got him cornered is all the more reason to start being honest.
I still don't see Kallen forcing him to talk about the truth and even if he did, what are the chances of them getting interrupted?

He has to defeat Schenziel, end of story, therefore he cannot stop.
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Old 2008-09-15, 22:01   Link #7117
morbosfist
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Right so defeating Lelouch does not give Schenziel his victory despite the fact that she is fighting on his side If Lelouch loses that fight he loses his chance to bring in his ideal world.
My point is she's not going to go through with it. Right now she wants to, and certainly not for Schneizel's sake. Otherwise she'd follow orders instead of running ahead of the pack.

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I still don't see Kallen forcing him to talk about the truth and even if he did, what are the chances of them getting interrupted?

He has to defeat Schenziel, end of story, therefore he cannot stop.
Just because he has to defeat Schneizel doesn't mean he has to keep going after that.

By the way, we're completely off-topic now.
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Old 2008-09-15, 22:06   Link #7118
SoldierOfDarkness
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Originally Posted by morbosfist View Post
Just because he has to defeat Schneizel doesn't mean he has to keep going after that.
I highly doubt that the show will end with Lelouch and Suzaku not achieving their goals. They'll both see it to the end and the show will not end it half-completed.

Quote:
By the way, we're completely off-topic now.
Suzaku simply made sure that Lelouch will not forget what they both promised each other and that simply because Nunnally reappeared does not mean they throw in the towel.

Nunnally is Lelouch's weakness, which has been evident throughout the entire season, not Kallen. I mean Suzaku captured Kallen and Lelouch didn't break, he continued fighting and picked her up almost 8 episodes later.
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Old 2008-09-15, 22:15   Link #7119
morbosfist
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Originally Posted by SoldierOfDarkness View Post
I highly doubt that the show will end with Lelouch and Suzaku not achieving their goals. They'll both see it to the end and the show will not end it half-completed.

Suzaku simply made sure that Lelouch will not forget what they both promised each other and that simply because Nunnally reappeared does not mean they throw in the towel.
Suzaku would certainly want to see it to the end, but Lelouch has shown that he can be shaken. Even C.C. tried to give him off the path.

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Nunnally is Lelouch's weakness, which has been evident throughout the entire season, not Kallen. I mean Suzaku captured Kallen and Lelouch didn't break, he continued fighting and picked her up almost 8 episodes later.
Nunnally is a weakness he has slowly gotten over, as he's worked up the ability to lie to her face. Kallen, on the other hand, got captured and Lelouch spent the next eight episodes arranging a way to break her out.
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Old 2008-09-15, 22:26   Link #7120
SoldierOfDarkness
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Originally Posted by morbosfist View Post
Suzaku would certainly want to see it to the end, but Lelouch has shown that he can be shaken.
Hmm Suzaku used to be shaken, especially by Euphie (Whom a certain person kept using). So in fairness, both had their weaknesses and have rid of them.

Quote:
Even C.C. tried to give him off the path.
In which CC questioned that it was all for Nunnally which Lelouch replied he could no longer treat her special and that it's for everybody. To quit now would be giving Schenziel the world and his Damacoles. He's not going to do that.

Quote:
Kallen, on the other hand, got captured and Lelouch spent the next eight episodes arranging a way to break her out.
Kallen at best is an enemy and not a weakness, she is nothing compared to what Nunnally was to Lelouch.

In fact, in regards to Suzaku's comment to CC, I would say that he's willing to take the brunt for Lelouch (take that burden). Lelouch will live and he will go down as the demon.
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