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Old 2008-05-06, 17:50   Link #921
orangejuicetang
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But that won't prove to Suzuku if Lelouch really got his memory back or not. And plus that phone call is much more dramatic than a "Lelouch, the new governor is your... sister" "No, your lying" "Look at the plot, you know it to be true" "NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!" type of scene.
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Old 2008-05-06, 19:10   Link #922
Dean_the_Young
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Originally Posted by Aquaman OS View Post
That whole conversation seemed like a subtle way of Suzaku telling Lelouch to give up being Zero and leave things to him and Nunnally. If Suzaku really wanted Lelouch dead he would have done so by now. There's really no point in him using Nunnally confirm anything since he already knows Lelouch has his memories back. He knew Zero was back minutes after Lelouch's memory returned so the Emperor probably already knows and told him. He's just telling Lelouch the stakes here probably so Lelouch doesn't accidentally wind up killing his own sister by attacking the new govenor enroute.
I think this more or less hits the nail on the head. Unlike last season, where they put emphasis on how Lelouch was both "Lulu" and "Zero" at the same time, this season they seem to be putting more emphasis on distinctly separating the two. Lulu and Zero are and are treated as distinctly separate people by both Kallen and Suzaku, hence why Kallen and Suzaku can treat "Lulu" one way and "Zero" completely different.
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Old 2008-05-06, 19:50   Link #923
wingdarkness
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I mean once you let the hot oil lube outta the bottle, you're prolly gettin' some^^...Suzaku is clear in the fact he wants to take down Lulu and has committed himself to that end, yet every other post is why didn't he think about Lulu this and that (*shakes head*)...He's beyond that now...Nunally being in some imminent mortal danger or someone hanging from Suzaku's puppet-string is an obtuse speculation at best...Again the emperor is someone everyone has to deal with and a wheelchair'd Nunally on the run with her nii-chan dodging Knightmare frame blasts verses being in a somwhat protective// somewhat free situation concerning Suzaku is negligible in comparison...Suzaku is an annoying preach at times, but unless he's rubbing one out before he goes to bed thinking about how he's gonna use Nunally to rape Lulu, he ain't "evil" by any stretch...Hell on the contrary he's even giving Lulu somewhat of an out on the strength of Nunally alone, the only thing that's prolly stopped him from just fragging Lulu...

In that last scene I saw a somber, yet forthright and deliberate man ready to finally play the game at Lulu's level...It was like using a royal piece on the last line of the chessboard to attack...I never thought he had a play like that in him, so for that he earned my respect...He needs to find out if Lulu is still Zero, if he's not, no harm no foul...He's just talking to some girl on the phone...
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Old 2008-05-06, 21:17   Link #924
Lowell1025
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^------what about nunally??? She'll be very badly hurt should Lulu says he doesnt know her.

Duno enough about hims in Season 2 to have any opinion of him yet, but in season one I disliked almost every moment of Suzaku screen time - keep on babbling about his limited version of what is right and what is just and, worse still, enforce it (or so he thinks he is enforcing it, which was nonsese to me) through his skills as a knightmare pilot He once said, to Lulu in season 1, that he dislikes Zero because zero thinkg the world revolves around him----says someone who killed his father with the intention of ending Japan's resistence with complete disregard of many people's wishes. Take this into account, when he killed his father he was doing in a way, same thing what he observed Zero is doing: he was forcing his viewpoint upon other people - at that moment I was like, dude, you are an idiot. What you are criticizing about Zero you are also doing it yourself. And his tone of voice - as if dishing out judgment as a just judge who knew better, made it even worse. That moment defined Suzaku as an illogical, idiotic, egocentric hypocrite to me, and the rest of the series did little to shake off that image from my mind.

Last edited by Lowell1025; 2008-05-06 at 22:33.
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Old 2008-05-06, 21:55   Link #925
orangejuicetang
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Real Japan did surrender to the United States in WW2 rather than defend Japan to the grave and underwent a period of change in which the United States pretty much rewrote thier government/constituion. This was due to it being a pretty much hopeless war when the other country has much more resources, people, and technology, as well as a trump card, (nukes in real world, knightmares in code geass, because I think I remember them saying sometime in S1 that Britannia used their new weapons called knightmares in the war their war against Japan.) Granted, the United States was rather merciful during this reconstruction period after the war and left rather quickly after they were done, but the fact was that after surrendering, the Japenese people saw that it was to their advatage to work together with the United States, and the peaceful cooperation would get them out of their country faster than armed resistance, and at the end they would be much better off, as evidenced since they are one of the major leaders in industry and technology. However, they were still quite humilated after surrendering since they how to bow to the Americans which made them "lose face" in Asian culture. National pride is discouraged in Japan, especially among the older generation, as they feel that it was one of the reasons that led to Japan entering World War 2 in the first place, where, quite frankly they got nuked twice, which is probably not an experience that they want to repeat.

Last edited by orangejuicetang; 2008-05-06 at 21:57. Reason: grammer
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Old 2008-05-06, 22:08   Link #926
Lowell1025
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humm. but the situation is different. Imperial Japan was the aggressor back in WWII, which would make the moral completely different from the case with Britania. I doubt today, hypothetically speaking, should a foreign country invade Japan the people of Japan would surrender without a fight to the bitter end.
Then again it is just my opinion, I have to admit psycology of Japanese people and many other factors are different from the era of WWII (which most of what I know about Japan comes from that period, or people who lived through that period). I'll take that portion out, but my point about Suzaku still stands without it.
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Old 2008-05-06, 22:28   Link #927
DN24
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We don't really know how was Japan under Suzaku dad.Maybe Japan was invaded because its government demanded some ridiculous price to sell Sakuradite to Britania,who know!!
And can't you remember he was 10 when he killed his father? And he didn't plan it, the whole thing was just an accident!
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Old 2008-05-06, 22:30   Link #928
orangejuicetang
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Point taken. However, though the moral situation is different, many other aspects are extremely similar. You also still had a valid Suzuku point though. I just wanted to correct your real world examples. Like the fact that any foreign country that invades Japan will discover that if no other country interfered, it would be quite easy, since Japan quite literally has no military power. This is due to the rewritten constituion which pretty much prevents Japan from mantaining a military and forces it to be a pacifist country. Much like Germany's new counstituion. What would probably happen though, is that the foreign invader will have discovered that there are other countries who aren't very happy with their invasion of Japan and who will help out, namely the United States and probably China. The United States is one of Japan's major allies, and China is one of Japan's biggest trading partners, and vice versa. Keep in mind that in politics, money and economics trumps petty prejuidices, so that is why I feel that China will help Japan if it is invaded. However, it really depends on how big the prejuidice so that's why I added the probably. Also, many of the other nations that Japan has alot of trade with will also probably help out, but China is probably the most powerful of those. So the statement really should have said that any foreign country that can successfully beat two of the world's currently most powerful nations(United States and China), as well as other countries that have business interests in Japan, will find the invasion of Japan quite easy. It's just the first step thats hard lol .
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Old 2008-05-06, 22:38   Link #929
Aquaman OS
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Japan was far from innocent. Backstory confirms Genbu was using the Sakuradite to try to play Britannia EU and China against each other for Japan's own gain while rubbing it in their faces that none of them would dare attack since all three would then have to go to war over Japan itself for the Sakuradite. Britannia dared.

Genbu was asking for it.
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Old 2008-05-06, 22:41   Link #930
ashlay
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aquaman OS View Post
Japan was far from innocent. Backstory confirms Genbu was using the Sakuradite to try to play Britannia EU and China against each other for Japan's own gain while rubbing it in their faces that none of them would dare attack since all three would then have to go to war over Japan itself for the Sakuradite. Britannia dared.

Genbu was asking for it.
yeah, yeah, and he got stabbed by his own mentally unstable son. Britannia didn't have to take it out on all of Japan. >_>
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Old 2008-05-06, 22:44   Link #931
Aquaman OS
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As the head of the country his actions affect the nation. So yes they had every right to. He should have been more responsible.
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Old 2008-05-06, 23:00   Link #932
Lowell1025
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uhm...........
DN24,-
okay my memory on Suzaku killing his dad part was a bit fuzzy, but I am pretty sure he tried to force his viewpoint on his dad and when it didnt work he killed him....if I was wrong I do apologize. But even discarding that, Suzaku's position at the time he said that phrase would still qualify my point. He's decided to change the system from within and he's making all other abide to the way he chose through his actions - its a mentality that can still be described the same as the way he' describing Zero's.

Orangejuice-
Okay buddy, I appreciate your challenge on people's ability to describe what they want to say as comprehensive and objective as possible, thanks to you, I now have smoke coming out of my ears...... whether it is from irritation or brain overuse I do not know...but please, please change the reason for you to edit your last post from "grammer" to "grammar"....it's killing me.....
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Old 2008-05-06, 23:14   Link #933
SoldierOfDarkness
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DN24 View Post
We don't really know how was Japan under Suzaku dad.Maybe Japan was invaded because its government demanded some ridiculous price to sell Sakuradite to Britania,who know!!
And can't you remember he was 10 when he killed his father? And he didn't plan it, the whole thing was just an accident!
He did try to reason with his dad. From what we saw with the shadows it appeared that Suzaku was trying to reason with his dad that further fighting was futile. They had lost but Genbu was willing to fight to the death.

Genbu smacked his son away, turning away before Suzaku ran into him with a knife.

I'd say Suzaku killed his father in a passion/rage/uncontrolled but it defintely was not an accident (And he obviously was shocked from what he had done).
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Old 2008-05-07, 01:28   Link #934
ashlay
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Originally Posted by Ueap View Post
Where is that Backstory came from?
What I can remember right now is that Schneizel mentioned something like every country that was evaded got a Geass ruined like the one at Kaminejima.
the show itself, the first picture drama, and the sound dramas.
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Old 2008-05-07, 05:11   Link #935
Vallen Chaos Valiant
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Originally Posted by Aquaman OS View Post
As the head of the country his actions affect the nation. So yes they had every right to. He should have been more responsible.
So an irresponsible ruler deserves having his entire nation enslaved?

You are making it sound like Britannia is some sort of symbol of Justice. Britannia didn't give a damn if Japan was Babylon or Kingdom of Heaven. They invaded because there is something they want. That invasion is not justified.
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Old 2008-05-07, 10:51   Link #936
DN24
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Nobody said that the invasion was right. But Japan was not an innocent country and its leaders are partly responsible for plunging its into war with a superpower!
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Old 2008-05-07, 12:20   Link #937
Dean_the_Young
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Ancient proverb: If you taunt a tiger enough, don't be surprised when it mauls you.

Modern saying: Don't do anything stupid, like taunt a tiger.
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Old 2008-05-07, 17:33   Link #938
Vallen Chaos Valiant
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Originally Posted by DN24 View Post
Nobody said that the invasion was right. But Japan was not an innocent country and its leaders are partly responsible for plunging its into war with a superpower!
I still don't see how Japan could have possibly being spared even if, as I said before, it was a land of Good and Justice. It was only a matter of when and which superpower decided to attack.

I don't mind if you think the code geass Japanese government was playing with fire; but it is entirely another thing to say the fire had the right to burn the country down. Britannia went it for the Sakuradite, and more secretly the ruins.
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Old 2008-05-07, 20:59   Link #939
orangejuicetang
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While I'm not saying that the fire had a right to burn the country down, but it is also wrong to condemn the fire for burning the country down. When people talk about Britannia's invasion of Japan, most people rush to say that it was completely Britannia's fault. However, like you said, it was only a matter of time before one of the superpowers decided to attack. Both the E.U. and Chinese confederation were planning on taking Japan too, and they even made some covert attempts like when with the Chinese Federation trying to set up a puppet government insdie of Japan. The Japenese prime minister tried to play the three superpowers against each other because he thought that none of the three would dare attack because it would mean going through the other two and thus bring about a case of mutually assured destruction. However, when Britiannia called this bluff, and the other two superpowers didn't step in, Japan was essentially screwed. Thus, while it's stupid to say that Britannia had the right to attack Japan, it's also stupid to say that the attack was completely unexpected and was not provoked at all. Using the example earlier, the Japenese government was playing with fire, and it was eventually going to get burned.
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Old 2008-05-07, 21:52   Link #940
Vallen Chaos Valiant
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While I'm not saying that the fire had a right to burn the country down, but it is also wrong to condemn the fire for burning the country down.
Hold on, are you saying Britannia shouldn't be condemned for invading and enslaving a nation just because they were provoked?

Yes, fire IS to be condemned. That's why we have firefighters. Next time your home is on fire, lets see you stopping the firetrucks because you somehow believe the fire is not to blame and shouldn't be "punished" for it.

Let it live!!!! Don't kill it!!!
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