AnimeSuki Forums

Register Forum Rules FAQ Members List Social Groups Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Go Back   AnimeSuki Forum > Anime Discussion > Older Series > Code Geass

Notices

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 2008-06-10, 16:22   Link #1481
Silver Soul
Banned
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Edo Japan
I was just saying their ideals, their both Byronic characters, flawed human beings, that will continue pursuit of their goals until one of them forfeits or dies still stretching out to succeed in the end.
Silver Soul is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2008-06-10, 16:23   Link #1482
Eliarine
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Why can't people just agree that neither Lelouch nor Suzaku is completely right or wrong? I'll probably get bricked for this, but I honestly think that if you worship one and hate the other (notice the exaggeration) you're doing it wrong.
Eliarine is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2008-06-10, 16:25   Link #1483
blitz1/2
Tenshi's Defense Squadron
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Fighting against those who oppress the system
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eliarine View Post
Why can't people just agree that neither Lelouch nor Suzaku is completely right or wrong? I'll probably get bricked for this, but I honestly think that if you worship one and hate the other (notice the exaggeration) you're doing it wrong.
I agree with you, neither is right. But many people are convinced that Lulu is the Angel of God to save people while Suzaku is the devil that damns people to hell.

EDIT: I noticed many people are coming to this thread, we better stop debating...
__________________

hai, hai. Onii-chan has his work cut out for him.
blitz1/2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2008-06-10, 16:27   Link #1484
Lowell1025
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eliarine View Post
Why can't people just agree that neither Lelouch nor Suzaku is completely right or wrong? I'll probably get bricked for this, but I honestly think that if you worship one and hate the other (notice the exaggeration) you're doing it wrong.
Hey, don't try to cut their arguments. I find reading posts here helps my headache a lot
Lowell1025 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2008-06-10, 16:27   Link #1485
Dynastya
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Quote:
Originally Posted by blitz1/2 View Post
But what you're saying is that he is justified no matter what crimes he is commiting against humanity.
Compared to the way the Britannians have oppressed people in their conquered Areas and taken away their national identities and replacing them with numbers, Lelouch's actions are that of a saint.

The United States of Japan accepts anyone regardless of race, religion, gender, nationality or other background. Britannia considers only their own citizens as first class citizens and 'honorary britannians' as secondary citizens while any of the 'numbers' are just 'numbers' and nothing more.

Also Lelouch tries to limit the number of civilian casualties due to his actions, Clovis just ordered the massacre of innocent civilians, so did Carares. And I doubt even Schniezel is above sacrificing his own people or civilians. Also look at Miss Romeyer, she openly said something in the lines of "if we're going to lose 1 million work force we might as well make an example of them..."
Dynastya is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2008-06-10, 16:31   Link #1486
Silver Soul
Banned
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Edo Japan
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eliarine View Post
Why can't people just agree that neither Lelouch nor Suzaku is completely right or wrong? I'll probably get bricked for this, but I honestly think that if you worship one and hate the other (notice the exaggeration) you're doing it wrong.
Its not that its the people who supports the former and bashes the latter that pisses me off, its definitely like a war between two idealistic nations/communities that won't stop until the end of the series and only one left than we can see who was right and who was wrong, I actually like Suzaku as a character but think his methods won't go nowhere in the long run and as much as I detest Lelouch's at times his seem to actually have the most impact even though sacrifices will obviously have to to made in the process.
Silver Soul is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2008-06-10, 16:33   Link #1487
Blue_Mercy
Veteran
 
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Blue Raider Nation
Age: 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eliarine View Post
Why can't people just agree that neither Lelouch nor Suzaku is completely right or wrong? I'll probably get bricked for this, but I honestly think that if you worship one and hate the other (notice the exaggeration) you're doing it wrong.
I agree, and there were actually examples of both of their sides in episode 9.

Good

Lelouch showed genuine kindness to Kallen in asking her to return to Ashford with him.

Suzaku whether through instinct to save his friend or a general interest to stop an assassination kept Nina from attacking Zero.

Not Good

Lelouch pointing a gun at Tianzi's head and taking her hostage, I don't care if it's a bluff or a power play. When he did this all I thought was Lelouch you $#!3.

Suzaku stating, "This is another tragedy Zero created." Are you kidding me? This coming from the White Grim Greaper, who has created countless tragedies for other countries as well as his own. I thought we were finished with Suzaku, the hypocrite.

The point is that both characters have serious flaws and redeeming qualities. Now there is no turning back for either of them.
__________________
Blue_Mercy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2008-06-10, 16:33   Link #1488
Silver Soul
Banned
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Edo Japan
Quote:
Originally Posted by blitz1/2 View Post
I agree with you, neither is right. But many people are convinced that Lulu is the Angel of God to save people while Suzaku is the devil that damns people to hell.

EDIT: I noticed many people are coming to this thread, we better stop debating...
Well he is currently the most discussed character on the forum........even if most pages are just mindless hate
Silver Soul is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2008-06-10, 16:35   Link #1489
Airi
White Empress
*Graphic Designer
 
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Behind you!
Send a message via MSN to Airi Send a message via Skype™ to Airi
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dynastya View Post
Compared to the way the Britannians have oppressed people in their conquered Areas and taken away their national identities and replacing them with numbers, Lelouch's actions are that of a saint.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lowell1025 View Post
Hey, don't try to cut their arguments. I find reading posts here helps my headache a lot

I hope your headache is better by now!!!!
Airi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2008-06-10, 16:38   Link #1490
Dynastya
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blue_Mercy View Post
Lelouch pointing a gun at Tianzi's head and taking her hostage, I don't care if it's a bluff or a power play. When he did this all I thought was Lelouch you $#!3.
I'd do the same if I were in his shoes, in any battle, the key to victory is knowing how to use your enemies' weaknesses against them, even if you have to hold a baby hostage and threaten to kill it. Showing compassion, mercy, kindness will not win a war for you, it will only get you DEAD DEAD DEAD.
Dynastya is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2008-06-10, 16:38   Link #1491
SoldierOfDarkness
The Dark Knight
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: From the deepest abyss in the world, where you think?
Age: 28
Quote:
Also Lelouch tries to limit the number of civilian casualties due to his actions, Clovis just ordered the massacre of innocent civilians, so did Carares. And I doubt even Schniezel is above sacrificing his own people or civilians. Also look at Miss Romeyer, she openly said something in the lines of "if we're going to lose 1 million work force we might as well make an example of them..."
And like lelouch they all have their reasons for their actions. It wasn't just on a whim.

Clovis did it to cover up the incident. Caraes.....aside from executions (Which is another story) I don't recall him massacring civilians.

You don't need to doubt Schenzeil either. He's shown to be quite the "gambling" person, hoping that Suzaku would be able to survive despite being gunned down to death (Which he did).
SoldierOfDarkness is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2008-06-10, 16:40   Link #1492
Dynastya
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Quote:
Originally Posted by SoldierOfDarkness View Post
And like lelouch they all have their reasons for their actions. It wasn't just on a whim.

Clovis did it to cover up the incident. Caraes.....aside from executions (Which is another story) I don't recall him massacring civilians.

You don't need to doubt Schenzeil either. He's shown to be quite the "gambling" person, hoping that Suzaku would be able to survive despite being gunned down to death (Which he did).
For Carares...remember all the civilians killed just to flush out and trap CC.

Plus: Lelouch's reasons for sacrificing innocents was to win a war against an enemy so that an even larger number of innocents could live in peace and freedom.

Clovis's reason for the massacre was just to cover his own ass.

REALLY BIG DIFFERENCES IN THEIR JUSTIFICATIONS FOR SACRIFICING INNOCENTS.
Dynastya is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2008-06-10, 16:42   Link #1493
SoldierOfDarkness
The Dark Knight
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: From the deepest abyss in the world, where you think?
Age: 28
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dynastya View Post
For Carares...remember all the civilians killed just to flush out and trap CC.
Completely forgetting the fact that Caraes was having Dim Sum with the Chinese and didn't even take command until episode 2.

That baron was commanding officer of the operation, Caraes wasn't.

Quote:
REALLY BIG DIFFERENCES IN THEIR JUSTIFICATIONS FOR SACRIFICING INNOCENTS.
I just stated that none of their actions were based on a whim.

Quote:
Plus: Lelouch's reasons for sacrificing innocents was to win a war against an enemy so that an even larger number of innocents could live in peace and freedom.
No offense but there is never any good reason to sacrifice innocent civilians just for your own gain. In the end the question becomes was it worth it? Do you think Nunnally would take kind to what Lelouch has done for her? (I highly doubt it)
SoldierOfDarkness is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2008-06-10, 16:44   Link #1494
Dynastya
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Quote:
Originally Posted by SoldierOfDarkness View Post
Completely forgetting the fact that Caraes was having Dim Sum with the Chinese and didn't even take command until episode 2.

That baron was commanding officer of the operation, Caraes wasn't.



I just stated that none of their actions were based on a whim.
In any military unit, the commanding officer is responsible for the actions of his men.


Lelouch and Clovis may have not based their actions on a whim but there is still a huge difference between the justifications for their actions.

In real life, if we brought Lelouch and Clovis both to the ICC at the Hague, Lelouch would only be given a slight slap on the wrist and Clovis would be given the death penalty for genocide.
Dynastya is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2008-06-10, 16:46   Link #1495
Silver Soul
Banned
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Edo Japan
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dynastya View Post
I'd do the same if I were in his shoes, in any battle, the key to victory is knowing how to use your enemies' weaknesses against them, even if you have to hold a baby hostage and threaten to kill it. Showing compassion, mercy, kindness will not win a war for you, it will only get you DEAD DEAD DEAD.

As heartless may it seem this is the very truth, Tian Zi is just one person over the billions of people in this world and Lelouch took the stand he usually does to get the upper hand and for Li to forsake his people for her is cruel within itself.


Spoiler for ???:
Silver Soul is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2008-06-10, 16:47   Link #1496
SoldierOfDarkness
The Dark Knight
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: From the deepest abyss in the world, where you think?
Age: 28
Quote:
In any military unit, the commanding officer is responsible for the actions of his men.
Righttt...completely ignoring the fact that the Baron does not answer to Caraes himself why should Caraes be responsible?
SoldierOfDarkness is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2008-06-10, 16:51   Link #1497
Silver Soul
Banned
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Edo Japan
Quote:
Originally Posted by SoldierOfDarkness View Post
No offense but there is never any good reason to sacrifice innocent civilians just for your own gain. In the end the question becomes was it worth it? Do you think Nunnally would take kind to what Lelouch has done for her? (I highly doubt it)

Well thats why he gets his resolve in episode 7, he realizes that he's not doing it for her anymore but for the people who supports him in his conquest, and I thought this was the Suzaku thread can we please not go off topic!
Silver Soul is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2008-06-10, 16:51   Link #1498
Dynastya
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
I was just re-watching a movie called Rules of Engagement yesterday and I remembered something from that movie which I feel is really nice.

Here is the gist of it: "A civilian is no longer a civilian if he points a weapon at you (a soldier) during hostile situations and you (the soldier) is allowed to consider that civilian a threat and use any means necessary to take him out."
Dynastya is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2008-06-10, 16:52   Link #1499
Aquaman OS
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
I never do get this. It's ok to do evil things as long as you know you are doing bad things, but its not to unknowingly do bad things even if you have legitimate good intentions?

It's like how in 00 the Meister's get hate for using force for good intentions while Ali is loved despite being an obviously evil murderous selfish bastard, just because he's knows and admits he's a horrible horrible person.

What the hell?
Aquaman OS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2008-06-10, 16:54   Link #1500
Silver Soul
Banned
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Edo Japan
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aquaman OS View Post
I never do get this. It's ok to do evil things as long as you know you are doing bad things, but its not to unknowingly do bad things even if you have legitimate good intentions?

It's like how in 00 the Meister's get hate for using force for good intentions while Ali is loved despite being an obviously evil murderous selfish bastard, just because he's knows and admits he's a horrible horrible person.

What the hell?
Sir, you've just made my day

I would have never thought of that !
Silver Soul is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 05:07.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
We use Silk.