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Old 2008-06-13, 17:55   Link #1641
Airi
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eliarine View Post
And how does that mean his intentions were not noble when he tried to defend Lelouch? You're apparently arguing that he never had noble intentions to begin with, I'm merely saying they were always there, under the dying wish.

I can understand why you hate the guy so much if you can't see past that.
I agree completely with you, Eliarine-san
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Old 2008-06-13, 19:27   Link #1642
Silver Soul
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Although brief, R2 episode 8 displayed that Suzaku cares more about Euphie and Nunnally's wishes than that of the Britannia's due to the fact that every Britannian there was egging him on to give the order to kill all the Japanese disguised as Zero but he refused to solely to the fact that he didn't want the same thing that happened to Euphie happen to Nunnally. Another thing is that why the hell would the Emperor use Suzaku to make the decision if he has other Knights of Round to give direct order, do you really think in that scene if Charles was on the big screen and gave an absolute order to kill them all you think they would be waiting on Suzaku to give the order.
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Old 2008-06-13, 19:46   Link #1643
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you are wrong about suzaku, he still has not recovered from his past, in spite of what everyone believes. He abided by Nunally's/Euphie's wishes in episode 8, because he was conflicted. He is still lacking something that will make him whole, Euphy did not fill it and neither did Nunally. Something will trigger him later in the series and make him into who he really is, I am for or against him, I do not know which way he will turn. But what I am trying to say it is still too early to say who he is, b/c like Lelouch he is also at his crossroads.
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Old 2008-06-13, 19:54   Link #1644
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Originally Posted by mash11 View Post
you are wrong about suzaku, he still has not recovered from his past, in spite of what everyone believes. He abided by Nunally's/Euphie's wishes in episode 8, because he was conflicted. He is still lacking something that will make him whole, Euphy did not fill it and neither did Nunally. Something will trigger him later in the series and make him into who he really is, I am for or against him, I do not know which way he will turn. But what I am trying to say it is still too early to say who he is, b/c like Lelouch he is also at his crossroads.
Well since you put it that way episode 9 put back that same conflict he had when he decided to let Nina go so yeah he still cant make up his mind, I was merely giving an example in which he could of gone either way but because them he stopped....but its too early to give any assumptions anyway.
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Old 2008-06-13, 19:59   Link #1645
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Originally Posted by Vallen Chaos Valiant View Post
Because wishing to die means he would rather be dead than actually helping people. You can't defend anyone as a corpse. Everything else was just lip-service.
Anything that is under the dying wish, is less important than dying.

Remember how Suzaku claimed he would change Britannia from the inside? That was a flat-out lie because he wasn't expecting to live long enough to get anything done.
What bullshit is this? You've got some logical fallacy on your face, sir. Just because you want to die doesn't mean you expect to.

Last edited by Sol Falling; 2008-06-13 at 20:50.
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Old 2008-06-13, 20:22   Link #1646
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Originally Posted by Vallen Chaos Valiant View Post
Because wishing to die means he would rather be dead than actually helping people. You can't defend anyone as a corpse. Everything else was just lip-service.
Anything that is under the dying wish, is less important than dying.

Remember how Suzaku claimed he would change Britannia from the inside? That was a flat-out lie because he wasn't expecting to live long enough to get anything done.
Yeah this is pretty much all he's done every time a Suzaku discussion comes along, seriously why even bother posting if you don't give a valid reason for a answer, or support your views with actual facts instead of mixing words together to make yourself sound smart and knowledgeable.
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Old 2008-06-14, 02:14   Link #1647
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Originally Posted by Vallen Chaos Valiant View Post
That time he refused to shoot Lulu? That was his first day on duty. Getting himself killed as a soldier was always on the verge of happening, but Lulu keep getting in the way later on. Suzaku was put on death-row TWICE for crying out loud! And that's not counting the number of times Lulu stopped Kallen's assassination attempts on Suzaku's life.

It wasn't due to lack of trying, put it this way.
Well, we still have different views on the saving Lelouche scene in ep. 1...
I think he was honestly trying to solve the situation. And I think he has great hand-to-hand skills, as well as reflexes, but even he can't keep someone from shooting him in the back.
And Kallen's assassination attempts were foiled once by Lelouche (Suzaku didn't notice) and the second time by himself, without the Geass active... He wasn't thinking of dying then.
If he really wanted to die that badly he did an incredibly bad job...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vallen Chaos Valiant View Post
He can't. He wanted to believe he was to be killled while planning to do something noble (though he never intends to actually do it). He has got Martyr syndrome.

That's why Suzaku was willing to stand still waiting to be blown to pieces along with Zero. It is still suicide, but he could justify it as following orders.
No argument there...
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Old 2008-06-14, 03:40   Link #1648
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Originally Posted by canis View Post
I think he was honestly trying to solve the situation. And I think he has great hand-to-hand skills, as well as reflexes,
I think you missed a discussion we had a while back...

Suzaku's physical skills and talent as a pilot were not mere talents. These skills has an external origin, caused by something that was done to him as a child.

This is such a big part of the show that Sunrise actually outright told us about it, in order to explain to us how Suzaku could do the strange things he can do. They told us Suzaku is a human, but what gave him all that supernatural skill wouldn't be revealed until much later.

Suzaku has inhuman capabilities. Most people in the series don't know that though.
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Old 2008-06-14, 03:56   Link #1649
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vallen Chaos Valiant View Post
Because wishing to die means he would rather be dead than actually helping people. You can't defend anyone as a corpse. Everything else was just lip-service.
Anything that is under the dying wish, is less important than dying.

Remember how Suzaku claimed he would change Britannia from the inside? That was a flat-out lie because he wasn't expecting to live long enough to get anything done.
I don't think so. The only evidence you can give to this is when he was holding down Zero and was ready to die right there. But that has to be taken with a grain of salt. Zero in the views of Suzaku (especially at the time) is a self-rightious, murdering, terrorist. If he could kill him, he felt that Japan would be better off (whether this would be true or not is up to you I guess.) He would have become a hero for doing the right thing. At least in his view point. Did that fit in with his plans? I highly doubt it.

He has been changing the world. Slowly but surely. He is the first Non-Britannian let into the Knights of Round after all. He wants to become the 1st knight to help Japan, and he wants to protect Nunnaly and Euphimeia's dreams. So we got an idea of his intentions. But does he truely want to die? I don't know about that. He may think he does, but for some reason I think he actually does want to change the world more so than die. As the person above put it, if he wanted to die he did a bad job. The reason he THINKS he wants to die is because he feels he should for murdering his own father which he hasn't recovered from. Whether he truely wants to die can be debated, but I highly doubt it jsut because of the goals he set forth for himself.
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Old 2008-06-14, 04:29   Link #1650
canis
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Originally Posted by Vallen Chaos Valiant View Post
I think you missed a discussion we had a while back...

Suzaku's physical skills and talent as a pilot were not mere talents. These skills has an external origin, caused by something that was done to him as a child.

This is such a big part of the show that Sunrise actually outright told us about it, in order to explain to us how Suzaku could do the strange things he can do. They told us Suzaku is a human, but what gave him all that supernatural skill wouldn't be revealed until much later.

Suzaku has inhuman capabilities. Most people in the series don't know that though.
Ah, I've read about it... But he isn't perfect. Just as all the geass have weaknesses his abilities have its limits as well. That's why I don't think he could have dodged the bullet fired at his back, when he was concentrating on someone else at that moment. His physical skills are impressive enough as it is
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Old 2008-06-14, 04:33   Link #1651
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Originally Posted by canis View Post
Ah, I've read about it... But he isn't perfect. Just as all the geass have weaknesses his abilities have its limits as well. That's why I don't think he could have dodged the bullet fired at his back, when he was concentrating on someone else at that moment. His physical skills are impressive enough as it is
Especially since he didn't expect it. So I am with you.

Not like Suzaku is a mind reader.
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Old 2008-06-14, 05:15   Link #1652
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there are so many conflicts going on with suzaku.

Some people say beleive he would do anything Charles orders him to do, even kill innocent people. and yet he is carrying out Euphie's dream, which I find as a conflict.

he is trying to protect/take care of Nunnally, at the same time he is trying to F up Nunnally's only family/ closest person Lelouch. If Suzaku kills Lelouch, what would he tell Nunnaly? Lie to her about Lelouch's death?

so many possibilities and outcomes... all depend on director's mood lol
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Old 2008-06-14, 05:26   Link #1653
Orga777
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Originally Posted by Astrana View Post
there are so many conflicts going on with suzaku.

Some people say beleive he would do anything Charles orders him to do, even kill innocent people. and yet he is carrying out Euphie's dream, which I find as a conflict.
I don't think he would do anything Charles says. I don't think Suzaku has it in him to kill innocent people. Especially after what happened with Euphie. Though you do raise a point. This is definitly a potential conflict.

Quote:
he is trying to protect/take care of Nunnally, at the same time he is trying to F up Nunnally's only family/ closest person Lelouch. If Suzaku kills Lelouch, what would he tell Nunnaly? Lie to her about Lelouch's death?
Well, he isn't trying to F-up Lelouch. As far as Suzaku is concerned Lelouch is already F'ed up. Suzaku could have easily have told her that Lelouch was Zero, but he is protecting Nunnally from that because it would completly devistate her if she knew Lelouch was behind all these horrors that happened (especially since we now know she doesn't approve of Zero's meathods.)

So yeah, I could see Suzaku lieing about it, if just to protect Nunnally. Though I think in the end if that occured, Suzaku would be even more devistated.

Quote:
so many possibilities and outcomes... all depend on director's mood lol
Which is why I enjoy this anime so much. The so many different possible outcomes always keeps me guessing what will happen next.
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Old 2008-06-14, 05:33   Link #1654
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Originally Posted by Orga777 View Post
Well, he isn't trying to F-up Lelouch. As far as Suzaku is concerned Lelouch is already F'ed up. Suzaku could have easily have told her that Lelouch was Zero, but he is protecting Nunnally from that because it would completly devistate her if she knew Lelouch was behind all these horrors that happened (especially since we now know she doesn't approve of Zero's meathods.)
Anime these days does not have happy ending, so this could be a possible ending(Nunnally find out about Lelouch, she got devastated and Lelouch become captured bla bla bla...) which I would hate to see that to happen. Also the unknown god is still unknown... who knows what will go on in the future.
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Old 2008-06-14, 07:48   Link #1655
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I REALLY hope she finds out that Lelouch is Zero because her naive nature is getting on my nerves, I would like to see her reaction so we can all see that dark side of her everyone's been claiming she has.
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Old 2008-06-14, 09:19   Link #1656
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Originally Posted by Silver Soul View Post
I REALLY hope she finds out that Lelouch is Zero because her naive nature is getting on my nerves, I would like to see her reaction so we can all see that dark side of her everyone's been claiming she has.
people speculate that she knows. just that shes hiding it. like some people have said, how can she hear a cat who has a injured leg, and not know zero's voice = lelouch's voice? it is highly possible. it could be that all this innocent and naiviness is just an act to decive people.
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Old 2008-06-14, 20:49   Link #1657
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Originally Posted by Vallen Chaos Valiant View Post
Remember how Suzaku claimed he would change Britannia from the inside? That was a flat-out lie because he wasn't expecting to live long enough to get anything done.
You know, you can keep saying this until the sun burns out, but when they put an entire episode in place to say "hey! I do this for the Japanese!", it still means you're wrong.

The man has a bunch of conflicting desires and wishes. So does Lelouch. So does Kallen. They grow up across the length of the series and they come to terms with themselves. It's called development.

Deal.
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Old 2008-06-14, 21:06   Link #1658
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Originally Posted by Ice_Bullet View Post
people speculate that she knows. just that shes hiding it. like some people have said, how can she hear a cat who has a injured leg, and not know zero's voice = lelouch's voice? it is highly possible. it could be that all this innocent and naiviness is just an act to decive people.
We speculated that before ep 6. Ep 6 seem to make it quite clear that she didn't know who he was before the ep (since she was afraid of him and she was thinking this too herself so it couldn't be an act). While she might have figured it out by his scream at the end she didn't know then and doesn't support Zero or the Rebellion at all nor does she seem to hate Britannia like Lelouch does. She seems firmly on the Britannian's and Suzaku's side.

Ep.6 proved most Nunnally theories wrong.
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Old 2008-06-15, 01:17   Link #1659
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And in episode 08 where zero appeared, Nunally showed no sign that she connects Zero with Lulu in any way. Personally I was excited at the hint that Nunally recognized Zero's voice to be Lelouch's at the end of 06, but in the end it seems that's just something thrown in to entice us for such a development in the near future >.<
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Old 2008-06-15, 01:18   Link #1660
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I thought it might mean something as well, but nothing ended up coming of it.
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