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Old 2008-09-29, 15:01   Link #2981
Shadows_Esper
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KrimzonStriker View Post
Didn't he just basically lie to the whole world already so that they could live better lives?
That was his plan, to make everyone hate him and save the world at the same time. That is hard to pull off if you think about it.
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Old 2008-09-29, 15:01   Link #2982
Tael
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Originally Posted by KrimzonStriker View Post
Didn't he just basically lie to the whole world already so that they could live better lives?
The problem is he did not manage to keep up his lie for everyone. If he had managed to make everyone believe that he was piss-evil, then yes, it works and he can disappear into obscurity. The problem that arises, however, is that some people knew the truth. So will they, the people that matter most, live better lives?

If he is alive, he does not need to meet them again, but he can inform them that he is alive, and off somewhere. Otherwise, it just leaves the possibility to a chance encounter and shit hitting the fan. It's one thing to have Nunally live out her life knowing the truth and that her brother is alive somewhere, its another for Nunally to know the truth and run into her brother by chance and be broken by it.

Just like Marianne and Lelouch...
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Old 2008-09-29, 15:10   Link #2983
KrimzonStriker
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Originally Posted by Tael View Post
The problem is he did not manage to keep up his lie for everyone. If he had managed to make everyone believe that he was piss-evil, then yes, it works and he can disappear into obscurity. The problem that arises, however, is that some people knew the truth. So will they, the people that matter most, live better lives?

If he is alive, he does not need to meet them again, but he can inform them that he is alive, and off somewhere. Otherwise, it just leaves the possibility to a chance encounter and shit hitting the fan. It's one thing to have Nunally live out her life knowing the truth and that her brother is alive somewhere, its another for Nunally to know the truth and run into her brother by chance and be broken by it.

Just like Marianne and Lelouch...
But Marianne was the one who went out to look or meet him in the end, and telling lies on top of lies so that even those who think they know the truth sounds like him in my opinion. He also has to live separately now, if he is alive I mean, since the whole world would be likely hunting him. Perhaps taking a few lessons from Sayako about disguises, hell if Suzaku can do it with the Zero mask the Lelouch sure as hell can if he wanted
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"That is why we must embrace carnage. In order to not waste the blood that has already been shed, we have no choice but to shed even more."- Lelouch Vi Britannia
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Old 2008-09-29, 15:26   Link #2984
ChainLegacy
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Originally Posted by Tael View Post
The problem, that I see, in Lelouch being alive, immortal or not, and not informing those who cared for him, would be that he is more or less doing what Marianne did. Hid from the world, letting the people that loved her live lies. It didn't end well, such things never end well... especially when coincidence is the driving force of life.
Well, one can debate the morality of lying like that, but Lelouch's gripe with Marianne and Charles was that they abandoned their young children. It was shown to be a pretty important fact to Lelouch that Nunnally had become independent before he disappeared like that. Also, I can't say I blame Lelouch for moving on - allowing his attachments to grow any further on is only going to hurt him a lot more when they all grow old and die and he doesn't.
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Old 2008-09-29, 15:37   Link #2985
DarthNicolas
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Light and Lelouch ain't identical,yes they got some strange power,yes they made too many things with that power,but what's in the heart matters too.Light was a totally cold,heartless person,never cared for anyone but himself,and died as a criminal should.
Lelouch on the other side carried all the burden and all the sins so the world would have a better tomorrow,with or without him.Every time he lied to someone (ex. conversation with Suzaku at the shrine about Euphie and stuff) u could see in his eyes that he made it seem like the bad guy so he could take all blame on himself.Same with the identity of Shirley's killer,he said he did it even though he would prevent it if he could.
The outer persona might have looked the same,but Lelouch was totally human.(-->superior)
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Old 2008-09-29, 15:45   Link #2986
Tael
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Originally Posted by KrimzonStriker View Post
But Marianne was the one who went out to look or meet him in the end, and telling lies on top of lies so that even those who think they know the truth sounds like him in my opinion. He also has to live separately now, if he is alive I mean, since the whole world would be likely hunting him. Perhaps taking a few lessons from Sayako about disguises, hell if Suzaku can do it with the Zero mask the Lelouch sure as hell can if he wanted
The world believes he is dead, everyone believes he is dead, but a portion of the world, a very small portion of the world, knows that he was the good guy. And from that small portion another fraction loves him dearly. Nunally, Suzaku, and Kallen are the least likely to move on, especially the two girls, he will always be in their minds and hearts in some slue of happiness and sadness. He is robbing them of the truth for what reason? He does not have to meet them, but he can let them know he is there.

And about masks, I doubt the three mentioned would be fooled by any mask anymore. Fool me once... etc. He'd have to have a complete shift in personality and completely forget them to be able to pull a perfect con that would not raise suspicion. Its not like he is hidden with the body of a loli... and I'm pretty sure C.C. would be a pretty damn big give away.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChainLegacy View Post
Well, one can debate the morality of lying like that, but Lelouch's gripe with Marianne and Charles was that they abandoned their young children. It was shown to be a pretty important fact to Lelouch that Nunnally had become independent before he disappeared like that. Also, I can't say I blame Lelouch for moving on - allowing his attachments to grow any further on is only going to hurt him a lot more when they all grow old and die and he doesn't.
They are going to die eventually, so the morality seemingly becomes one of selfishness. In fear of being hurt himself, he lets people live their lives mourning him? Take Highlander for an example, they led complete lives with many people and experienced happiness over and over, they did not allow their immortality to make them miserable, and they did not take away that from those that loved them.
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Old 2008-09-29, 15:51   Link #2987
Narona
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Guys! No new theory or hints ^o^?

I will watch again some episodes later to see if we missed something XD
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Old 2008-09-29, 15:54   Link #2988
coba
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Originally Posted by Tael View Post
He does not have to meet them, but he can let them know he is there.
Lol, he probably follow the rule on "if you want to trick your enemy, you have to trick your allies first
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Old 2008-09-29, 16:20   Link #2989
JMvS
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Originally Posted by Narona View Post
Guys! No new theory or hints ^o^?

I will watch again some episodes later to see if we missed something XD
What if Nana-chan was given by V.V. a special power that allows her to see the truth upon hand contact? We know he kidnapped at the end of season 1. We know he spoke of her with Charles during R2 (showing some concern?). We know that he treasured sibling bonds and despised lies (altough he did lies a few times).

That MAY me a partial explanation for her character development during R2.

But I fear that it would undermine the "she had a mind transfer from dying Lulu, so he has a Code and live!"...
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Old 2008-09-29, 16:31   Link #2990
SoldierOfDarkness
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tael View Post
The problem, that I see, in Lelouch being alive, immortal or not, and not informing those who cared for him, would be that he is more or less doing what Marianne did. Hid from the world, letting the people that loved her live lies. It didn't end well, such things never end well... especially when coincidence is the driving force of life.
I'm not sure what the issue is because unlike Lelouch she was murdered and thus had to go into hiding to protect herself and her family.

She was planning on resurfacing for the plan to be enacted so unless Lelouch has something else going on I do not see how it is the same.
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Old 2008-09-29, 16:35   Link #2991
Kaze
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Originally Posted by Narona View Post
Guys! No new theory or hints ^o^?

I will watch again some episodes later to see if we missed something XD
Notice C.C praying at the same church she was in when she first received her immortality, she also says that because Lelouch geassed all those people,

he'd (This is my theory) accept retribution in the form of living forever.

2 months passed, he very well could have pulled it off.
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Old 2008-09-29, 16:39   Link #2992
JMvS
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Originally Posted by Nourredine View Post
Notice C.C praying at the same church she was in when she first received her immortality, she also says that because Lelouch geassed all those people,

he'd (This is my theory) accept retribution in the form of living forever.

2 months passed, he very well could have pulled it off.
Wasn't that in Ashfords chapel?
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Old 2008-09-29, 16:45   Link #2993
Kaze
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Originally Posted by JMvS View Post
Wasn't that in Ashfords chapel?
Really? my mistake in that case, but that still does not take away my theory, the only thing that changes in that case is the location she's praying in.
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Old 2008-09-29, 16:52   Link #2994
Tael
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Originally Posted by SoldierOfDarkness View Post
I'm not sure what the issue is because unlike Lelouch she was murdered and thus had to go into hiding to protect herself and her family.

She was planning on resurfacing for the plan to be enacted so unless Lelouch has something else going on I do not see how it is the same.
Marianne wasn't protecting her family, Charles did that. She just hid to survive.
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Old 2008-09-29, 16:57   Link #2995
Theron
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Everything below is my answer in last episodes’ thread. It really pissed me of so I wanted to post it here as well.
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Originally Posted by Charred Knight View Post
If he was alive, Lelouch sacrificed nothing, didn't die for anyone, and the whole thing was nothing more than an elaborate charade by someone who wanted to leave the dirty work to someone else. Suzaku must never take off the mask, he must never know love, and he must forever be cursed by the weight of Zero.

Nunally must forever know the guilt that her brother died for her sins, Kallen will never get over Lelouch, and as for Lelouch? His enjoying himself with C.C?

How is that a hero? Its not, so I prefer to think of him as a pleasent human being, rather than an asshole.
I’m really starting to be annoyed by people who think like that witch isn’t very characteristic of me.

So you think that getting stabbed in chest witch were obviously very painful; being effectively killed at least once in front of the whole world as the worst tyrant ever to walk the Earth; and even more importantly to be killed in front of the closest people to him like Nunnally, Suzake, Kallen all of that isn’t enough? No, he needs to be dead. Well, not exactly - you want him to be dead so that your impression of his high morals wouldn’t be shattered. That’s nice, very nice.

Here’s something else to think about: If he somehow survived he will be forced to live on somewhere far away from the ones he cares about. He won’t be able to see them other than on TV or let them know that he’s alive. If he does he risks jeopardizing the whole plan, for witch he willingly died once already by the way. Lelouch will be forced to exclude himself from the lives of other people for at least one generation or everything he tried to achieve will be for nothing. Knowing his serious nature I bet he will bare that responsibility and won’t even try to do anything risky. He will be able to show himself only few people without some disguise and there are like three people he let know that he’s alive. And no, those do not include Nunnally, Suzaku or Kallen.

Now imagine what is worse for him: to die once and live everything behind or to continue on living, but bearing the responsibility of not risking the results he achieved with Zero Requiem. His future will be exactly like Suzakus. With only one difference: he will suffer the same fate only for one generation. Afterwards he can lead an open life as much as he can being immortal. And if you still think that one average long life is not enough of a punishment than I don’t even want to talk with you anymore.

I’m sure that Lelouch deserves to be alive for all the good that he has done. And for all the bad he has done he has suffered and still will suffer enough. At least in 30-50 years he can live openly and maybe doing even more for the world.
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Old 2008-09-29, 17:01   Link #2996
Masha
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Cool

Lelouch maybe dead, but I suspect that both Suzaku and Nunnally don't know about it. Suzaku probably thought that he really did kill his best friend for the cause and his redemption, while Nunnally really does think that Lelouch took on all the hatred in the world on his shoulders and sacrificed himself.
If Lelouch really was immortal, he would consider Lelouch vi Britannia dead and gone, and himself reborn as a new person with no connection to this new world. Unless of course the world goes bad again and something happens to Nunnally and Suzaku then he will return.

As for Orange, I actually thought that he was either into the plan of Zero Requiem and understood that Lelouch was sacrificing himself or because of the most recent actions he became disillusioned with Lelouch and approved of "Zero" killing him. I doubt that he was aware about Lelouch surviving.

Very few people were aware about Geass and immortality, most of them were killed by Lelouch in China - Geass researches, others - Charles, Marianne in C World, and only Lelouch and CC are remaining. I don't think anyone else including Suzaku, Nunnally or Orange were aware of Geass connection with immortality.
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Old 2008-09-29, 17:02   Link #2997
Tael
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Originally Posted by Masha View Post
Very few people were aware about Geass and immortality, most of them were killed by Lelouch in China - Geass researches, others - Charles, Marianne in C World, and only Lelouch and CC are remaining. I don't think anyone else including Suzaku, Nunnally or Orange were aware of Geass connection with immortality.
Kallen is also quite aware.
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Old 2008-09-29, 17:08   Link #2998
SuperJiwon
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tael View Post
The problem is he did not manage to keep up his lie for everyone. If he had managed to make everyone believe that he was piss-evil, then yes, it works and he can disappear into obscurity. The problem that arises, however, is that some people knew the truth. So will they, the people that matter most, live better lives?

If he is alive, he does not need to meet them again, but he can inform them that he is alive, and off somewhere. Otherwise, it just leaves the possibility to a chance encounter and shit hitting the fan. It's one thing to have Nunally live out her life knowing the truth and that her brother is alive somewhere, its another for Nunally to know the truth and run into her brother by chance and be broken by it.

Just like Marianne and Lelouch...
In the end the Black Knights were never meant to lead happy, oblivious lives. The Black Knights, Kaguya, Tianzi, etc. were meant to honor his sacrifice to work towards a better world, with Suzaku as the new Zero. The only people he needed to stay convinced that he was the enemy of the world were the people that didn't know Lelouch was originally Zero, and would acknowledge and support Zero-zaku. Nunnally on the other hand I believe was there because at the very least Lelouch wanted to end his life near Nunnally, perhaps he couldn't bear the thought of being hated by her even in death. An act of selfishness but not unreasonable.

I don't think Lelouch is alive though, just my personal opinion. Unless C.C. ripped out his soul and shoved it in CHEESE-KUN!! dun-dun-duuunn....
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Old 2008-09-29, 17:16   Link #2999
SuperJiwon
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Originally Posted by Masha View Post
Lelouch maybe dead, but I suspect that both Suzaku and Nunnally don't know about it. Suzaku probably thought that he really did kill his best friend for the cause and his redemption, while Nunnally really does think that Lelouch took on all the hatred in the world on his shoulders and sacrificed himself.
If Lelouch really was immortal, he would consider Lelouch vi Britannia dead and gone, and himself reborn as a new person with no connection to this new world. Unless of course the world goes bad again and something happens to Nunnally and Suzaku then he will return.

As for Orange, I actually thought that he was either into the plan of Zero Requiem and understood that Lelouch was sacrificing himself or because of the most recent actions he became disillusioned with Lelouch and approved of "Zero" killing him. I doubt that he was aware about Lelouch surviving.

Very few people were aware about Geass and immortality, most of them were killed by Lelouch in China - Geass researches, others - Charles, Marianne in C World, and only Lelouch and CC are remaining. I don't think anyone else including Suzaku, Nunnally or Orange were aware of Geass connection with immortality.
Orange-kun DID seem a little too calm to witness his lord die right in front of him. Even if he knew the entire plan the whole time I would think he would at least show a little tear action or something instead of his little satisfied smirk right before he told the troops to retreat. I dunno how an immortal Lelouch would work out, it would kind of cheapen his sacrifice. Plus eventually someone would find out and that would be pretty awkward
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Old 2008-09-29, 17:57   Link #3000
Shadow Kira01
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Supposedly, the Geass ability at its highest stage is actually cursed immortality, then shouldn't Lelouch be immortal then? On the contrary, it was never mentioned that he had Geass symbols on his hands. Then again, it was never mentioned that it was an actual requirement to have Geass symbols on his/her hands to attain the power of cursed immortality.

The thing is.. It would be great that Geass users will live by the end of R2, so that there might be a third season. Otherwise, it might end here.
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