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Old 2008-10-03, 23:07   Link #3201
Vakir
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Narona View Post
One more case of over-analyzing

It could be a shadow on the side of the cart driver's face
I seriously don't pick a side in the "is Lelouch alive" debate. I think him being alive would completely undermine his sacrifice in the first place just for a copout fanservice ending without any consequence for the fan favorite. However, calling that a shadow is a huge, ridiculous stretch. Especially the way it's cast over the side of the driver's face/neck and the approximate length of it, and just the general drawn texture for it. It's hair.

Why they'd make a shadow that deliberately on a minor character on a frame that wouldn't even be observed by most people in the first place is beyond me, especially when they are so stupidly lazy when it comes to drawing anything outside the main characters. Seriously, freeze frame on a group of minor characters or people and look at how many faces are screwed up. Look at Kanon's uber-threatening grey rectangle blob gun in episode 20.

The animation in this show is, for the most part, pitiful when it comes to the small details. They wouldn't draw a SHADOW of the driver for that little 1/10th of a centimeter that you need to pause to see in the first place. It's deliberately to get people discussing. The "it's a shadow" argument would hold up if this were, you know, REAL, with real physics of how light and shadows work, but since people need to actually hand draw it, and this studio is freaking horrible when it comes to that, I can't draw the same conclusion that it would be a shadow.
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Old 2008-10-03, 23:11   Link #3202
Deliberation
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vakir View Post
I seriously don't pick a side in the "is Lelouch alive" debate. I think him being alive would completely undermine his sacrifice in the first place just for a copout fanservice ending without any consequence for the fan favorite. However, calling that a shadow is a huge, ridiculous stretch. Especially the way it's cast over the side of the driver's face/neck and the approximate length of it, and just the general drawn texture for it. It's hair.

Why they'd make a shadow that deliberately on a minor character on a frame that wouldn't even be observed by most people in the first place is beyond me, especially when they are so stupidly lazy when it comes to drawing anything outside the main characters. Seriously, freeze frame on a group of minor characters or people and look at how many faces are screwed up. Look at Kanon's uber-threatening grey rectangle blob gun in episode 20.

The animation in this show is, for the most part, pitiful when it comes to the small details. They wouldn't draw a SHADOW of the driver for that little 1/10th of a centimeter that you need to pause to see in the first place. It's deliberately to get people discussing. The "it's a shadow" argument would hold up if this were, you know, REAL, with real physics of how light and shadows work, but since people need to actually hand draw it, and this studio is freaking horrible when it comes to that, I can't draw the same conclusion that it would be a shadow.
They got lazy to draw the animation and it's just a pen line drawn for his face/cloth?
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Old 2008-10-03, 23:15   Link #3203
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Meh, I think differently Vakir, what matters is and always has been the result for Lelouch and he achieved it, he basically already lied to the world in the end in order to obtain this peace, I don't see a stretch or it feeling out of place if he did manage to survive, I actually feel it would give the whole thing more closure as a whole versus the permanence of the other scenario, in terms of complaints that I believe you made on how this peace could never last, among certain other rather odd scenarios leading up to it.

And honestly, if you have a problem with this I wish you had at least called Sol out on the whole whiskers crap back in the Turn 25 thread if you feel this way about the over-analyzation theme. Anyway, I won't get into that at any further, we're only going to talk if circles again and again so lets leave it at that >_>
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Old 2008-10-03, 23:15   Link #3204
Vakir
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Originally Posted by Deliberation View Post
They got lazy to draw the animation and it's just a pen line drawn for his face/cloth?
It isn't, though. The lines for his face and cloth are already there. That little patch of black wouldn't otherwise exist unless there was a purpose. If they have Kanon holding a threatening grey rectangle, ffs. They could've made the face blank, or even cut off the pan-up over about an inch to the right if they wanted. But they didn't.

That doesn't mean it's Lelouch, but it is there to get people discussing.

Quote:
And honestly, if you have a problem with this I wish you had at least called Sol out on the whole whiskers crap back in the Turn 25 thread if you feel this way about the over-analyzation theme. Anyway, I won't get into that at any further, we're only going to talk if circles again and again so lets leave it at that >_>
Whiskers crap? Can't call someone out on something I didn't see. And we'll only be able to talk in circles if you offer an adequate argument. Which you haven't.

Yes, they can deal with Xing Ke looking like a deformed child as he watches Suzaku vs. Bismarck (look at him after the fight's over...dear GOD), but they're going to bother to draw a tiny shadow for a quarter of a second on a random driver. Gotcha.
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Old 2008-10-03, 23:17   Link #3205
kir44n
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Come on now Lovecakecookies? More facts to his death than life?

1) Most major characters in Code Geass have "died" at least once. (including Nunally, Cornelia, Guilford, Orange, Sayoko, Marianne, Charles (okay, only for about a minute), C.C., Suzaku, Oughi, Villeta). On screen death has not yet been really the most definitive proof in this show. The only times we have been proven for the death is when we have actually seen : The character getting buried. This would cover A) Shirley & B) Rolo.

2) This is sunrise. I will point out
Spoiler for Gundam Wing:
and
Spoiler for Gundam Seed:
.

3) We have as-of-yet unresolved threads in regards to the Geass plot, and Lelouch's promise to C.C.

These are the major facts we have for Lelouch's living. For his death we have :

1) Zomg, he was stabbed lolcats! Through the void that should be his heart but he deserved to die so he's dead! -okay, this may be a bit extreme, but to this I come to point 1) above

2)He was bleeding so much! And Nunnally had super-awesome touchy feely moment! It'd take away from the emotional impact if he lived! - True enough. But C.C. bleed when shot through the face. And we've had emotional impact from death before too. Just because they pull the rug out later doesn't deny the emotional impact. In this show, half the time the emotional impact is just to leave you unbalanced so they can blindside you later -_-

3) But people would see if he stood up and lived! Too many people around! - To this, I'll bring up Orange did order a retreat, which probably included picking up Lelouch's body, but leaving nunally where she was to be rescued by Cornelia & blind-gunman.

So I still will give the death-folks 50% to 50% to be fair. But you can't expect any higher based on the "facts" supporting his death at this point
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Old 2008-10-03, 23:17   Link #3206
KrimzonStriker
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vakir View Post
It isn't, though. The lines for his face and cloth are already there. That little patch of black wouldn't otherwise exist unless there was a purpose. If they have Kanon holding a threatening grey rectangle, ffs. They could've made the face blank, or even cut off the pan-up over about an inch to the right if they wanted. But they didn't.

That doesn't mean it's Lelouch, but it is there to get people discussing.
See, its to get people discussing. So lets leave it at that and our own interpretations then shall we since we probably won't get any further on this point
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Old 2008-10-03, 23:18   Link #3207
Vakir
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Originally Posted by KrimzonStriker View Post
See, its to get people discussing. So lets leave it at that and our own interpretations then shall we since we probably won't get any further on this point
Ok, but telling me it's a shadow when they're lazy, crappy animators of the small details is just a moot point. Can you at least acknowledge that?
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Old 2008-10-03, 23:19   Link #3208
KrimzonStriker
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Originally Posted by Vakir View Post
Ok, but telling me it's a shadow when they're lazy, crappy animators of the small details is just a moot point. Can you at least acknowledge that?
And if Sol comes up with the whiskers argument one more time based on that same logic, we can agree its a small detail and a moot point again, am I right? If so then yes we can acknowledge it I feel
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Old 2008-10-03, 23:20   Link #3209
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vakir View Post
It isn't, though. The lines for his face and cloth are already there. That little patch of black wouldn't otherwise exist unless there was a purpose. If they have Kanon holding a threatening grey rectangle, ffs. They could've made the face blank, or even cut off the pan-up over about an inch to the right if they wanted. But they didn't.

That doesn't mean it's Lelouch, but it is there to get people discussing.
.
I'm sorry wha?? LOL HAHAHAHAHHAA LOL Sorry my friend works in animation company and they do get lazy and draw like thicker lines.

*cough*

You know he might not be the cart driver. C.C might be stuffing him in the hay with Cheese-kun on top.
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Old 2008-10-03, 23:21   Link #3210
Narona
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Originally Posted by Vakir View Post
I seriously don't pick a side in the "is Lelouch alive" debate. I think him being alive would completely undermine his sacrifice in the first place just for a copout fanservice ending without any consequence for the fan favorite. However, calling that a shadow is a huge, ridiculous stretch. Especially the way it's cast over the side of the driver's face/neck and the approximate length of it, and just the general drawn texture for it. It's hair.
I said that only because I know how the conversation could turn. Some people will show up trying to impose their opinion as fact (mainly that he is dead) like in the final episode thread.

So it was just an attempt to not get people started about it again. Sorry.
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Old 2008-10-03, 23:22   Link #3211
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Ok fine, so people who believe that Lulu is alive..

If there is no Spin-Off of any kind then will you believe he is dead? because If he certainty is alive, its easy to do a Spin Off...

I see understand the reasons to think he is alive, but honestly they made it ambiguous on purpose IMO to please fans...
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Old 2008-10-03, 23:22   Link #3212
Vakir
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Originally Posted by Deliberation View Post
I'm sorry wha?? LOL HAHAHAHAHHAA LOL Sorry my friend works in animation company and they do get lazy and draw like thicker lines.

*cough*

You know he might not be the cart driver. C.C might be stuffing him in the hay with Cheese-kun on top.
If you maximize the video, you can see texture in the hair that's supposedly a shadow. You can see a tuft of it overlaying the rest of it in a sort of semi-messy way that has always been with Lelouch. I'm not going to screencap it unless requested because, to be perfectly honest, I don' want to turn this into B.S. conspiracy theorist crap. "OMG, look, he told them to 'pull it!' Inside job, guise!" I'm 95% sure it's hair. They wouldn't bother with that shot if it wasn't.

I don't really care if he's the cart driver or not, but they showed that for a reason, and it's not a shadow.

Quote:
I said that only because I know how the conversation could turn. Some people will show up trying to impose their opinion as fact like in the final episode thread.

So it was just an attempt to not get people started about it again. Sorry.
You don't need to apologize or worry about it, Narona. I'm putting just the possible fact out there. I don't want a big debate over it, I just want people to acknowledge: it IS probably hair.
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Old 2008-10-03, 23:28   Link #3213
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The cart thing huh? wasn't that made by a fan?
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Old 2008-10-03, 23:28   Link #3214
Vakir
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The cart thing huh? wasn't that made by a fan?
...what? We're talking about the episode.
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Old 2008-10-03, 23:29   Link #3215
KrimzonStriker
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Okay, okay, a good possibility it is hair Vakir, I tend to think so too, honestly the contrast and positioning to the clear white skin after the collar cuts off makes me inclined to lean in that perspective as well.
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Old 2008-10-03, 23:30   Link #3216
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Originally Posted by Vakir View Post
...what? We're talking about the episode.
He means the fan-made gif that pans left to 'reveal' that the cart driver is Lelouch, put together in minutes by some channer.
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Old 2008-10-03, 23:32   Link #3217
Vakir
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Originally Posted by Dream_Traveller View Post
He means the fan-made gif that pans left to 'reveal' that the cart driver is Lelouch, put together in minutes by some channer.
Eww, no. I've seen that and if we were talking about that we wouldn't have even needed to discuss it if we thought that was real. >_>
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Old 2008-10-03, 23:37   Link #3218
Theron
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Originally Posted by lovecakecookies View Post
There is not a 50 percent chance he alive.. more like 25 percent?

50 percent of fans believe he is alive, sadly there is more Facts, not theories, to his death than he is alive.. (like being stabbed in the heart) ..

New info? Maybe the Magazines that come out this month might change opinions.. like mine.
I rephrase that.

Everything boils down to whether Sunrise wants’ to continue with CG worlds concept or not. Sunrise owns the rights. They can do whatever they want.

As for facts... There’s that thing called retcons witch basically makes the impossible possible. Was it used in previous Sunrise works? Hell yeah. There's a list of tens of characters that for whatever reason had come back to life.

So the most important question right now is... will Sunrise make CG into a franchise or not.
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Old 2008-10-03, 23:39   Link #3219
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So the most important question right now is... will Sunrise make CG into a franchise or not.
No, because it's dead by Word of God. All that's left are the Picture Dramas and Sound Episodes.
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Old 2008-10-03, 23:39   Link #3220
Vakir
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So the most important question right now is... will Sunrise make CG into a franchise or not.
When the DVD sales come through to offset the lukewarm ratings?
...yeah. Probably.

Quote:
No, because it's dead by Word of God. All that's left are the Picture Dramas and Sound Episodes.
You underestimate the ability to ruin things by executives.
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