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Old 2008-04-27, 20:41   Link #341
Dann of Thursday
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No, there are no good people in this show. Euphemia was as close as we got and she's dead.
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Old 2008-04-27, 20:54   Link #342
DeotoxSlayer
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Originally Posted by Dann of Thursday View Post
No, there are no good people in this show. Euphemia was as close as we got and she's dead.
Oh, so Rivalz, and Millay don't exist
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Old 2008-04-27, 20:56   Link #343
SoldierOfDarkness
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Nope.

They don't count since they aren't important to the plot

Eitherway I smell a sneaky rat, especially Rivalz.
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Old 2008-04-27, 20:58   Link #344
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It's unfortunate but just like a year is enough to get Rolo to switch sides, who knows what has happened to Nunnally in the past year, for all we know the Emperor is evil enough for him to have someone to force open her eyes and he rewrite her memories. As for me I'm hoping Nunnally will remain good, while keeping the idea that she may turn evil or have always been.

Also, Lelouch reminds us that anyone that separates him and Nunnally will get used, killed, or otherwise hurt.
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Old 2008-04-27, 21:00   Link #345
Dann of Thursday
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Okay, those two may not be evil or anything as well, but they were never in a situation that would have allowed them to prove it or not.
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Old 2008-04-27, 21:29   Link #346
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dann of Thursday View Post
No, there are no good people in this show. Euphemia was as close as we got and she's dead.
I find Lelouch good in a sense. He, as Zero, wishes to carry out justice and does not appreciate the acts of the strong bullying the weak. He opposes the survival of the fittest rule, which is good in my eyes.

It's true he does end up using people for his own ends but half of the time regrets or feels guilt over it and sometimes he doesn't. I also find Nunnally good, despite Dann's and Krimzon's protests that she is, just a little over attached to her brother, but then again who could blame her? Her mother was killed in front of her and she was six. Freaking Six! I would love for someone to say they could handle that better. Beside that though that incident of losing her family (and the same goes for Lelouch) and having your own father do nothing about it can make you lose your trust in people.


SO I guess the point is that no one in the series is truly good, then again few people in life are all the way.
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Old 2008-04-27, 21:31   Link #347
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It's unfortunate but just like a year is enough to get Rolo to switch sides, who knows what has happened to Nunnally in the past year, for all we know the Emperor is evil enough for him to have someone to force open her eyes and he rewrite her memories. As for me I'm hoping Nunnally will remain good, while keeping the idea that she may turn evil or have always been.

Also, Lelouch reminds us that anyone that separates him and Nunnally will get used, killed, or otherwise hurt.
I'm afraid the Emperor doesn't need to do anything like Geass Nunnally, she's had signs of a darker aspect long before the kidnapping, all you need is a little tweaking and then let her loose which is exactly how things seem to be shaping up

In any event, Lelouch is going to probably have to re-prioritize those values of his, and soon I would venture <_<
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Old 2008-04-27, 21:38   Link #348
Dann of Thursday
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All you would need to do to get Nunnally to do what you want would convince her it would let her and her brother be together forever.
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Old 2008-04-27, 21:50   Link #349
SoldierOfDarkness
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Originally Posted by KrimzonStriker View Post
I'm afraid the Emperor doesn't need to do anything like Geass Nunnally, she's had signs of a darker aspect long before the kidnapping, all you need is a little tweaking and then let her loose which is exactly how things seem to be shaping up

In any event, Lelouch is going to probably have to re-prioritize those values of his, and soon I would venture <_<
The Emperor is 10x the man Lelouch is. A powerful man like him should't have to rely on his Geass all the time unless absolutely needed(Such as rewiring Lelouch's brain).
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Old 2008-04-27, 22:22   Link #350
tbl
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As much as I hate to admit this, Lelouch is no Ben Linus (though he comes close).
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Old 2008-04-27, 22:55   Link #351
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[QUOTE=SoldierOfDarkness;1563856]The Emperor is 10x the man Lelouch is. A powerful man like him should't have to rely on his Geass all the time unless absolutely needed(Such as rewiring Lelouch's brain).[/QUOTE

O.o Leave this Board.

Your comparing a man who's leader of a country - To a guy who's vsing a country? and your telling me Lelouch should never use his Geass?

Plus we don't know anything about the Emperor - for all you know he poisoned his brother's drinks to get to the throne. The fittest survive right? By any means.
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Old 2008-04-27, 23:05   Link #352
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Whether she is sadistic, dark, evil incarnate or whatever I can’t imagine any valid reason for her to become her Onisama’s enemy. Even completely evil people would have a person they would not touch for her that would be him.
The problem isn't that Nunnally might turn against Lelouch, it's that she might be willing to go to any extreme to make a world where they could live together. In R1, Nunnally tried to get Lelouch to make a kinder world for them... unfortunately he failed miserably, so now it's her turn.
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Old 2008-04-27, 23:14   Link #353
ashlay
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The problem isn't that Nunnally might turn against Lelouch, it's that she might be willing to go to any extreme to make a world where they could live together. In R1, Nunnally tried to get Lelouch to make a kinder world for them... unfortunately he failed miserably, so now it's her turn.
Well, it's not like Nunnally was making him do it. She probably doesn't care what he does, she'll still approve of him anyway.
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Old 2008-04-28, 00:55   Link #354
KrimzonStriker
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Intention aside, it often doesn't equal the consequences of ones actions in carrying on those intentions. Lelouch should know that better then anyone, which is why I'm afraid that whatever Nunnally does, even if she does still love her Oni-san, they way she'll go about expressing that love will bring a whole mess of trouble for everyone, including Lelouch >_>
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Old 2008-04-28, 01:00   Link #355
ashlay
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Originally Posted by KrimzonStriker View Post
Intention aside, it often doesn't equal the consequences of ones actions in carrying on those intentions. Lelouch should know that better then anyone, which is why I'm afraid that whatever Nunnally does, even if she does still love her Oni-san, they way she'll go about expressing that love will bring a whole mess of trouble for everyone, including Lelouch >_>
Nunnally actually...doesn't strike me as that stupid. >_>

I think she knows exactly what she's doing right now and is simply manipulating the situation to Lelouch's advantage in her own way, and in an actually substantial way. The only issue would be if Lelouch understands it.

Of course, the real problem is that V.V. can still take her away again, anytime, anywhere. So whatever she does accomplish will be merely a temporary stopgap. >_<
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Old 2008-04-28, 01:07   Link #356
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Nunnally actually...doesn't strike me as that stupid. >_>

I think she knows exactly what she's doing right now and is simply manipulating the situation to Lelouch's advantage in her own way, and in an actually substantial way. The only issue would be if Lelouch understands it.

Of course, the real problem is that V.V. can still take her away again, anytime, anywhere. So whatever she does accomplish will be merely a temporary stopgap. >_<
It's not that I think she's stupid, it's just that I think she's... a bit disturbed. You know, somewhat like Mao except less obvious about the state of her mentality...>_>

Which is also why I think it would be rather... easy for that obsession of hers to turn into something quite disastrous for everyone, including Lelouch despite whatever her intentions are, or perhaps because of them <_<
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Old 2008-04-28, 02:52   Link #357
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Originally Posted by KrimzonStriker View Post
Uhh, what was he doing at the gambling den of all places in the first place if it was just on a whim then? It's far more likely he went there for that very purpose, and that only the involvement with Rivalz game was on a whim. In any event, perhaps it is a stretch to say each and every, but it's an even bigger stretch to not say this is his core being, his primary mindset that utterly dominates who he is for the most part and one where he will completely ignore if faced with the well-being of others which occurs quite frequently thanks to the life and choices he's made, and I think you're avoiding the problem completely by speaking of what might happen then what could happen.

Yes I can agree that circumstances could change things in any direction, not just the ones in which everything would conveniently fall into place in order for your scenario to work. It's not a sound assessment if you depend on only future developments in order to solve your problems, especially with a show that can go in so many different direction or has so many different plot twists as well. We have to measure it's likelihood based on the context we are given with, so I'd rather you try and fit the possibility into how it can happen now rather then leave it up in the wind. I've argued the same argument you have before, that this wasn't a healthy lifestyle for Lelouch to be leading and that he some how needed to learn to think about his own happiness at times as well before he ran himself into the ground and that would have made nobody happy in the end. But I took his character head-on in that regard, using comments and circumstances in relation to other characters that I hoped would help him realize he did matter, Rolo and his potential romantic developments being among them. And that is why I believe you're own assessment lacks substantial backing in order to make it convincing, you can't avoid a problem and just wait for it to be resolved, if you want to convince people you have to deal with it yourself, like Lelouch said in episode 19 to the rest of the Order about creating their own country.

Oh and I think I basically answered all your points, the gambling up above this post and how it is actually far more likely he was getting ready to destroy Britannia versus traveling all the way to a gambling den and hanging around there even though he was a student just to happen on this particular game with Rivalz. Then there was the festivals where he gave in for the sake of Nunnally whose happiness was paramount over his own discomfort, and as for nobles he also often goes to save those being bullied by them at the same time wouldn't you say?
Sorry, but you're missing the point. When exactly have I mentioned any 'scenario'? Lelouch has demonstrated selfish behaviour in the past. If he's ever in a similar situation, Lelouch will demonstrate the same behaviour in the future. That's all there is to it.

There's no guarantee that there will be any nobles in a 'gambling den'. From the nature of the 'gambling', it was just a place where people played chess for money, and large sums tend to be the exception, if Rivalz's words are to be believed. Lelouch is good at chess, and plays it as a hobby. Where exactly do you get 'Lelouch was plotting to take down Britannia by beating its nobles at chess!' from?
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Old 2008-04-28, 03:41   Link #358
bbduece
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This is the 1st time Lelouch has lost some points with me.

Spoiler for R2 episode 4:


I dont want Lelouch to turn out like Light
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Old 2008-04-28, 04:26   Link #359
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Considering Nunnaly whereabouts are completely unknown it isn't surprising for Lelouch to ruthlessly consider Rolo as a disposable pawn.
That was kinda the "same" when he was forming the black knights, but quickly consider them as comrades instead of pawns (if my memories serve me right, of course ).

I wouldn't really be surprised if he begin to "warm" up, especially if Rolo can be a "true" brother for Nunnaly, replacing the "guardian" position that Suzaku was supposed to be for her, according Lelouch's wish.


That said, I must admit I was grinning and kinda laughing when Lelouch scored points with a confused Rolo, with his "KEIKAKU DORI" facial expression
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Old 2008-04-28, 05:16   Link #360
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I wasn't expecting another Kira in this show. If this story still has some morals to it, Lelouch will undergo some great trials and change his attitude completely, or maybe Rolo will die protecting him and he'll feel guilty afterwards, but IMO that's more than enough. I don't know if Lelouch see the Black Nights as his companions or not, he could still be using them to reach his own goal (looks much so).
Actually, I deem all his Japanese supporters good people, so was the case with all Kira's supporters I guess. There are good people here, and they're probably being used, it's like déjà vu baby.
Anyway, the show would have been much more fun if they had told us beforehand how Lelouch used his Geass on the Britannian employee, like the last incident at the mall, while still staying under his cover. It just strikes me as odd that there can always be a Geassed dude anywhere, anytime that will get him out of a tough situation. Telling us after all the commotion isn't exactly convincing, and I'd argue that it's less entertaining that way, than making us wonder what he'd do with the Geassed dude.
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