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Old 2008-11-13, 16:42   Link #3601
youngde
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Originally Posted by Nogitsune View Post
Not to mention that Lelouch deserved happiness, not punishment.
At least in my opinion.
I'd say he deserved both some measure of happiness and some measure of punishment. He did plenty of good for the world, but he did alot of crappy things to do it; I think he should pay a penence, just not one that would make him absolutely destitute and miserable.
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Old 2008-11-13, 16:44   Link #3602
Nogitsune
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What purpose would punishing Lelouch serve?
Not to mention that he had suffered enough for one lifetime already.
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Old 2008-11-13, 16:48   Link #3603
youngde
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Originally Posted by Nogitsune View Post
What purpose would punishing Lelouch serve?
Not to mention that he had suffered enough for one lifetime already.
Personal penence for the wrongs he's done and trying to make up for it. And while he's suffered, he's also inflicted suffering upon others. Having a crappy childhood/teenage years doesn't excuse alot of the stuff he did.

At any rate, "Life is pain. Anyone who says different is selling something."

(I probably should have used the word penence rather than punishment in the first place. It's probably more applicable here.)
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Old 2008-11-13, 16:52   Link #3604
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Originally Posted by youngde View Post
Personal penence for the wrongs he's done and trying to make up for it.
That would make him happy, but no one else.

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And while he's suffered, he's also inflicted suffering upon others. Having a crappy childhood/teenage years doesn't excuse alot of the stuff he did.
Not, but I can understand his reasons and I don't think he deserved punishment.
Only someone who would kick his butt in time and tell him that he was about to do something very stupid.
Oh, and someone to hug him!

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At any rate, "Life is pain. Anyone who says different is selling something."
Then Lelouch was a very... lively person. xD
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Old 2008-11-13, 17:15   Link #3605
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Originally Posted by demon_god04 View Post
To be honest, I am kinda split about the reasons behind his death. I can certainly see the poetry in how he died and what he died for but at the same time the "sin" thing just seems out of place to me. By acknowledging the things he has done as something wrong that needed to be atoned for by his death, it just seems to me that it would be also saying the good things he has done to be wrong. The whole point I thought about his character was that he walked a fine line between clearly defined concepts of right and wrong. What threw me off was that at the end he acknowledged Geass as a positive thing despite the pain and suffering that power has caused but yet it does not apply to himself as well? Despite the fact that he has caused tragedies with his powers, there were also positive changes that were brought about because of it, much like Geass.
The problem is that the good he did with geass was caused by the deaths of thousands of people. Sure he created peace but tell that to the widows of the soldiers he killed in the first episode. Tell that to Claudio when Lelouch reveals that his father died so he could find out useless information on his mother's death.

Lelouch needed to be punished for the thousands that died due to Geass so he wouldn't be like his father. Charles had millions die so that his plans could work, but he didn't want himself, Marianne, Lelouch, or Nunnaly to die, he didn't even care that Euphemia died.

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I don't get why people wouldn't think he could/should become immortal just because he sinned. C.C. didn't think immortality was all that great. Personally, I think having to eternally watch over the peace you sacrificed and sinned so much to make while outliving everyone whom you cared about to be a much more appropriate 'punishment' than dying. But maybe that's just me.
Here's the problem, most people wouldn't see that as a punishment

Most people would see that as Confirmation of Lelouch and C.C, and see Lelouch getting eternal life, as Eternal happiness with C.C for all the good he did. It was much shorter, and much easier to have Lelouch die, and show that as a punishment, then try the upscale battle of having Lelouch live, and show that as a punishment.

Even if they have ten episodes they probably couldn't do it. I mean look at how many people where pissed of at Rossiu living, and Rossiu didn't even kill a single person.
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Old 2008-11-13, 17:19   Link #3606
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Originally Posted by Charred Knight View Post

Lelouch needed to be punished for the thousands that died due to Geass so he wouldn't be like his father. Charles had millions die so that his plans could work, but he didn't want himself, Marianne, Lelouch, or Nunnaly to die, he didn't even care that Euphemia died.
No matter how much i love Lelouch and stuff i agree with this. He created a lot of mess on more than one occasion and i think that in the end he died not only to create a peaceful world yadda yadda but because he knew he had to be punished. There is always a price to pay in order to accomplish something. {what irks me in the end though, is that other douchebags terrorists got to survive when they did crap as well. :/}
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Old 2008-11-13, 17:20   Link #3607
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People were pissed off at Rossiu because he was willing to leave countless people behind on the earth, all of whom were desperate as ever to escape the Anti-Spiral menace. Or something like that. Eh, some just saw him as an uncaring bastard both for that, and for him locking up Simon. But I digress.
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Old 2008-11-13, 17:40   Link #3608
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Originally Posted by skyless View Post
No matter how much i love Lelouch and stuff i agree with this. He created a lot of mess on more than one occasion and i think that in the end he died not only to create a peaceful world yadda yadda but because he knew he had to be punished. There is always a price to pay in order to accomplish something. {what irks me in the end though, is that other douchebags terrorists got to survive when they did crap as well. :/}
They can't kill every single person, the ones who deserved punishment the most (Schneizel, Lelouch, and Suzaku) got punished. Lelouch's death, is a hell of a lot better than Schneizel being brainwashed into being Suzaku's slave.

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Originally Posted by NyxOne View Post
People were pissed off at Rossiu because he was willing to leave countless people behind on the earth, all of whom were desperate as ever to escape the Anti-Spiral menace. Or something like that. Eh, some just saw him as an uncaring bastard both for that, and for him locking up Simon. But I digress.
They where several scenes that showed Rossiu cared, hell their was an entire episode dedicated to it. Which is my point, people only see what they want to see.
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Old 2008-11-13, 17:42   Link #3609
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I still don't see the point in punishing Lelouch, but maybe I'm just too much of an amoral person.
I mean, punishment only makes sense if you want someone to realize their mistakes so that they won't repeat them - otherwise, it's nothing more than petty revenge.
Lelouch knew that he made mistakes.
It's all right with me if he feels the need to atone for his so-calles sins, but I still think what he truly deserved was happiness.
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Old 2008-11-13, 17:51   Link #3610
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Originally Posted by Nogitsune View Post
I still don't see the point in punishing Lelouch, but maybe I'm just too much of an amoral person.
I mean, punishment only makes sense if you want someone to realize their mistakes so that they won't repeat them - otherwise, it's nothing more than petty revenge.
Lelouch knew that he made mistakes.
It's all right with me if he feels the need to atone for his so-calles sins, but I still think what he truly deserved was happiness.

So? That makes his mistakes justified? No.
Lulu knew he did shit, he was anti-hero. In the end he chose to atone for his sins while giving the world the chance to start from the beginning. {though that was TOO FAR idealistic from the creators but anyway}
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Old 2008-11-13, 17:54   Link #3611
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So? That makes his mistakes justified? No.
Justification doesn't matter to me.
Lelouch made mistakes, yes, but punishing him for them won't bring back the dead.

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Lulu knew he did shit, he was anti-hero. In the end he chose to atone for his sins while giving the world the chance to start from the beginning. {though that was TOO FAR idealistic from the creators but anyway}
The most selfless selfish act I've ever witnessed, and the saddest happy ending I've ever seen, but I still don't think he deserved punishment.
He thought so, yes, but no one gained anything from his guilt.
Well, they did, but if it wasn't for Zero Requiem, punishing him would have been pointless.
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Old 2008-11-13, 18:05   Link #3612
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Originally Posted by Nogitsune View Post
Justification doesn't matter to me.
Lelouch made mistakes, yes, but punishing him for them won't bring back the dead.



The most selfless selfish act I've ever witnessed, and the saddest happy ending I've ever seen, but I still don't think he deserved punishment.
He thought so, yes, but no one gained anything from his guilt.
Well, they did, but if it wasn't for Zero Requiem, punishing him would have been pointless.

But he did deserve punishment, he killed a lot of people whether you like it or not. Being the Lulu-worshipper i am, i did not want him to be punished but it was the right thing to happen. Of course i would not mind an ending with Lulu alive, hell i would pay Taniguchi to have him alive in the end but the fact that he chose his own death makes me content.
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Old 2008-11-13, 18:17   Link #3613
Nogitsune
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But he did deserve punishment, he killed a lot of people whether you like it or not. Being the Lulu-worshipper i am, i did not want him to be punished but it was the right thing to happen.
But why did he have to be punished?
Why was it "right"?
Because he wasn't a saint? Because people died because of him?
I know that, but I still don't see the point in "punishing" him.
There's no logical reason for it.
Yes, I can see why Lelouch thought he needed to redeem himself by dying. But why should I agree with him?
Punishing someone without the purpose of keeping him from repeating his mistake seems rather petty to me.
It's like saying: "He did bad things, he just can't get away with that, even though he deeply regrets his actions already! Because... because he was bad!"


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Of course i would not mind an ending with Lulu alive, hell i would pay Taniguchi to have him alive in the end but the fact that he chose his own death makes me content.
Don't get me wrong, I love the ending.
But I don't feel that Lelouch deserved punishment.
I only admire his selfish sacrifice.
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Old 2008-11-13, 18:56   Link #3614
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Originally Posted by Nogitsune View Post

Don't get me wrong, I love the ending.
But I don't feel that Lelouch deserved punishment.
I only admire his selfish sacrifice.
It is like what they call it:
"Crime and Punishment" It finds you whether you want it or not.
A lot of circumstances forced Lulu to do the shit he did and he knew he was no saint and that is why he chose the end he chose. "Deserving" or "not deserving" it is up to one's POV i guess.
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Old 2008-11-13, 18:58   Link #3615
Willowhugger
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I would have preferred the series end with Lelouch becoming Emperor of Britainnia.

It's actually like Suzaku's Punishment.

Lelouch must now preserve the Empire he hates and can never become Ordinary High School Student Lelouch again.
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Old 2008-11-13, 19:40   Link #3616
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I would have preferred the series end with Lelouch becoming Emperor of Britainnia.

It's actually like Suzaku's Punishment.

Lelouch must now preserve the Empire he hates and can never become Ordinary High School Student Lelouch again.
That wouldn't be a punishment at all.

Britannia isn't some evil country, theirs no such thing as an evil country. Its only leaders that are evil, Lelouch never hated the land or its people, he hated the rulers.
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Old 2008-11-13, 19:43   Link #3617
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Originally Posted by Charred Knight View Post
That wouldn't be a punishment at all.

Britannia isn't some evil country, theirs no such thing as an evil country. Its only leaders that are evil, Lelouch never hated the land or its people, he hated the rulers.
How do you figure that? Lelouch hated being a political pawn for a racist and Imperialist Empire. Lelouch wanted only to be an ordinary High School student who lived with Shirley, Millie, and Nunally.

He hates power and those who wield it over the weak.

He'd have to spend the rest of his life dismantling a system of Apartheid and Noble Priviledge while re-educating the country's elite to protect the weak rather than abuse them.

No matter what, he'd never be able to return to being Lelouch Lamporouge.
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Old 2008-11-13, 19:48   Link #3618
Rising Dragon
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Originally Posted by Willowhugger View Post
How do you figure that? Lelouch hated being a political pawn for a racist and Imperialist Empire. Lelouch wanted only to be an ordinary High School student who lived with Shirley, Millie, and Nunally.

He hates power and those who wield it over the weak.

He'd have to spend the rest of his life dismantling a system of Apartheid and Noble Priviledge while re-educating the country's elite to protect the weak rather than abuse them.

No matter what, he'd never be able to return to being Lelouch Lamporouge.
Dismantling, no. He did that in a couple days. Re-education on the other hand, yeah, that'd take a long-ass time.
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Old 2008-11-13, 19:58   Link #3619
Charred Knight
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Originally Posted by Willowhugger View Post
How do you figure that? Lelouch hated being a political pawn for a racist and Imperialist Empire. Lelouch wanted only to be an ordinary High School student who lived with Shirley, Millie, and Nunally.

He hates power and those who wield it over the weak.

He'd have to spend the rest of his life dismantling a system of Apartheid and Noble Priviledge while re-educating the country's elite to protect the weak rather than abuse them.

No matter what, he'd never be able to return to being Lelouch Lamporouge.
He didn't give a flying rats ass about being Lelouch Lamperouge, that was just another mask for Lelouch Vi Britannia. It also wouldn't be that hard to schedule visits with them either. Its not like milley, and Shirley would be banned from entering the royal palace, and Nunnaly would be with him.

Lelouch hates power and those who wield it, but he did, and will do that for what he sees as the good of the world.

Once again that is not a punishment, that is a reward

Congragulations Lelouch, you have killed thousands of people, brainwashed hundreds more, and now your the Emperor of the most powerful nation on Earth.
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Old 2008-11-13, 20:06   Link #3620
morbosfist
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Originally Posted by Charred Knight View Post
He didn't give a flying rats ass about being Lelouch Lamperouge, that was just another mask for Lelouch Vi Britannia. It also wouldn't be that hard to schedule visits with them either. Its not like milley, and Shirley would be banned from entering the royal palace, and Nunnaly would be with him.

Lelouch hates power and those who wield it, but he did, and will do that for what he sees as the good of the world.

Once again that is not a punishment, that is a reward

Congragulations Lelouch, you have killed thousands of people, brainwashed hundreds more, and now your the Emperor of the most powerful nation on Earth.
Uh, yes he did "give a flying rats ass" about being Lelouch Lamperouge, or he wouldn't want to go back to Ashford after everything was over. Lelouch hates people who wield their power to the detriment of the weak, not just power in general. Finally, being forced into a lifetime position of power would be punishment, because like Suzaku he'd be forever stuck giving up his happiness to make these people play nice.
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