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Old 2009-03-04, 02:19   Link #4001
willyvereb
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Out of the 5 mentions 3 was from the point of view of the characters(so debatable), one from the point of view of the populance of CG world(more debatable) and 1 somehow similar to me how CC "killed" in the first episode of R1.
Not to mention that dying is not atoning for sins...it's a runaway compared to the hell of immortality.
It perhaps means nothing...the only place where it can have impact the Kalulu pairing,but it's meaningless to bring up something that even just remotely have chance to true in a discussion.
It's another matter with the fanfics:P...not sure where to start but i'll start possibly a R3 fanfic(and many others...i'm not sure with which one i start)
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Old 2009-03-04, 02:59   Link #4002
SonOfHeaven
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Well, I read some of those translated interviews with Okouchi and a few other staff members. They pretty stated that Lelouch is dead repeatedly. Would I want Lelouch to be alive? Sure(takes away the impact of the ending though). Because my other favorite character Kallen is waiting for him(Character song, this would be an interesting scene btw) and I'm sure he would have want to speak to Nunnally normally. However, its been confirmed that he's dead.

Besides we saw him take a sword in the stomach and die on screen. No reason to believe he's alive. Unless someone wants to write a fanfic about it.
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Old 2009-03-04, 05:46   Link #4003
willyvereb
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IF he's alive i can imagine him atoning for his sins as becoming everlasting guardian of the peace he created.
IF Lelouch somehow got an immortality code,then even with it he's practiculary dead as Lelouch Lamperuge/Vi Britannia. Perhaops he first enjoy the peace he created in a remote place(with CC or not i leave it to your imaginations...even if with her it's not neccessary as his lover.).
That's all IF he "survived" it.
Perhaps it's the meaning of Fanfic that we must alternate the happenings somehow in the most cases to achive our goals. Perhaps as least as posible(it'sa rare case when the fanfic's writer better than the original's)
P.S: i don't belive in Okouchi's words after some of his irrational statements.(perhaps other staff members is another case)
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Old 2009-03-04, 05:50   Link #4004
Rising Dragon
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It has been confirmed by Okouchi and in an official list of slain characters in Code Geass that Lelouch is dead. But if you refuse to believe Okouchi's word on the matter, then there's no point in continuing this discussion.
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Old 2009-03-04, 09:27   Link #4005
Charred Knight
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Quote:
Originally Posted by willyvereb View Post
IF he's alive i can imagine him atoning for his sins as becoming everlasting guardian of the peace he created.
IF Lelouch somehow got an immortality code,then even with it he's practiculary dead as Lelouch Lamperuge/Vi Britannia. Perhaops he first enjoy the peace he created in a remote place(with CC or not i leave it to your imaginations...even if with her it's not neccessary as his lover.).
That's all IF he "survived" it.
Perhaps it's the meaning of Fanfic that we must alternate the happenings somehow in the most cases to achive our goals. Perhaps as least as posible(it'sa rare case when the fanfic's writer better than the original's)
P.S: i don't belive in Okouchi's words after some of his irrational statements.(perhaps other staff members is another case)
Okouchi was the scenario writer of Code Geass, his the one who decided Lelouch should die, all of his statements have stated that lelouch is dead, and the guidebook mentions it three times, and the guidebook is written in the third person, and not in character of anyone.
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Old 2009-03-04, 10:07   Link #4006
willyvereb
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ok...but if i remember he stated something like that Nunaly can see trough the people's hearts for example(if it's true then Lelouch can be found out at R1 by Nunally...not to mention the scene at ep 25)...
I was just curious...because for my fanfiction it's somewhat good if there is a chance(if even slight) for Lelouch being alive(as immortal). But nevermind...most of the fanfics detoriates the story already so it's nothing new if mine do it too...even if it's officialy stated that Lelouch died.
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Old 2009-03-04, 10:17   Link #4007
Levy
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yeah, it's not in any way canon that Lelouch got a Code somehow and came back from death, but there's plenty of room for building a decent plot for a fanfic using this plot twist, in a story like Geass that got a lot of supernatural elements.

fanfiction is not supposed to necessary stick to canon, it's all up to you
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Old 2009-03-04, 10:37   Link #4008
youngde
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The simple fact of the matter is is that Lelouch is officially dead. Yeah, he took the chicken shit way out rather than atoning for the things he did, and that's BS, but then again, so was most of the last 5 episodes. Then again, SUNRISE does hold the rights to the character, so it's not like if they decide to make a new series they can't change their minds and retroactively bring him to life. It's not like they haven't done it before, which would be fine so long as they don't pull a Mu La Flaga on us. (I'm sorry, he was hit by a giant lasar and exposed to hard vacuum. There is no way in HELL he survived that). At least with the semi-magic of Geass, you could make something up that makes he's revival seem semi-plausible.

youngde, signing off.
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Old 2009-03-04, 12:29   Link #4009
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Wasn't his choice to die at least partly motivated by him believing he didn't have a right to exist in the new world he helped create?
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Old 2009-03-04, 12:46   Link #4010
bladeofdarkness
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he needed to die IN ORDER TO CREATE that new world
so thats kind of meaningless for him to think that he doesnt deserve to exist in it

i still think it was a stupid idea but what ever
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Old 2009-03-04, 16:02   Link #4011
youngde
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Originally Posted by azul120 View Post
Wasn't his choice to die at least partly motivated by him believing he didn't have a right to exist in the new world he helped create?
Honestly, I can't imagine Lelouch being so short sighted as to think that the world world would be all candy and gumdrops after he died. The simple fact is is that after he died, the world would be united in their common hatred of him for awhile. Let's face it, there would be some serious issues to be resolved between the UFN and Britannian Empire, even if Lelouch did wipe out lots of the possible descidence in his two month reign. The happy Ougi/Viletta wedding picture at the end was an ideal, but hardly what I think the whole world would be like. I can't imagine a random UFN citizen and Britannian meeting on the street and going, "You hated the Emperor, too? Let's be best friends."

Point is, Lelouch had a responsibility to watch over the fragile peace he helped create imo. But, meh, now he's dead and only the word of SUNRISE and revive him from the grave (officially).

youngde, signing off.
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Old 2009-03-04, 16:16   Link #4012
morbosfist
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Though they should have done a better job in conveying it, it's not so much that their common hatred will keep the peace, but more of a lesson in just how bad they could have it if they don't cooperate. No one wants a repeat of Emperor Lelouch so they should do their best to keep that from happening.
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Old 2009-03-05, 10:41   Link #4013
Waltz of Gemini
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Originally Posted by azul120 View Post
Wasn't his choice to die at least partly motivated by him believing he didn't have a right to exist in the new world he helped create?
Seriously, sometimes I tend to think like that but after reading some stuff in the official guidebook in the LJ community, I think the creators made it look that way.

Since it stated that the only way Lelouch and Suzaku can truly forgive themselves is to impose the greatest punishments on themselves. Thus, I tend to think that their real goal was to punish themselves and the gentle world only came as a consolation prize, since they've planned the Zero Requiem without knowing about Nunnally's survival. (Bad characterization, don't you agree?)

And Zero Requiem was just that - to concentrate negativity on Lelouch so everyone can see the horrid face of war and tyranny. A more peaceful life emerged after his death and Zerozaku, the champion of peace, was there to keep it. Of course, everlasting peace is not possible, and humanity's dissent and self-interest will eventually break the peace. However Lelouch vi Britannia will become a constant reminder for them.

IMO...
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Old 2009-03-05, 13:28   Link #4014
willyvereb
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I think it'll be more constant reminder if actually Lelouch lives(as an immortal) and guards the peace as atonement...perhaps if he's not so "lucky" to have an immortality code...:P
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Old 2009-03-05, 23:20   Link #4015
Princess-Euphemia
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i like lelouch because he can be the bad guy and also the good guy and not many animes do that which i think makes him different
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Old 2009-03-06, 17:24   Link #4016
bladeofdarkness
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topic shift
i didnt know if this should be here or on the generic thread but since it concerns lelouch then its here
do you think its possible for geass to have a genetic element to it
a person must be given a geass by a code possesor but do you think its possible to have a genetic effinity for geass powers
since over time and use the geass grows more powerful the change in the body of the user must also take place
is it possible for a geass users children to inheret some of those changes ?
if you take all the geass users in the show there is a distinct difference in how their geass works and effects people
mao, C.C and rolo's geass has a very small very specific effect on the person being geassed (rolo's is the most invasive and it almost kills him to use it)
bismark's power effects only HIS mind
on the other hand you have charles and marianne who both posses a geass that effects another persons mind completely and allows them to either rearange it to their will or to take over it entirely and use the body as a tool (while the target mind is sleeping)
charles's brotehr V.V was able to reach a level that allows him to take a code very early on (lelouch was powerful enough in a year, mao didnt make it after 9 years)
and the son of charles and marianne has the most powerful geass in the show allowing him to completely impose his will on others to the point that they will kill themselves and smile while doing it if he asks them to
its so overpowered that he takes over the entire WORLD within months of losing any morals he has
lelouch's geass also shares other things with his parents geass
all three are the types that require direct eye contact to use (the only non vi-britannia geass that has that is the one used by the kid in the geass cult, and even he didnt take over the mind but mearly the body)
is it possible that lelouch being a 2nd gen geass user gives him a more natural effinity and hence a much stronger geass then otehrs
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Old 2009-03-06, 18:04   Link #4017
willyvereb
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There's no way to inherit that...because:
1.) The power of geass brings the user to solitude.
2.) Even if he/she have a kid there's no way in my opinion to inherit that. Even that thing that it cause physical changes in the body not sure...not to mention that it can alter the genes.

The power of Geass=the power of the user's greatest wish. And i think Charles's memory modifying stronger and more usefull ability than Lelouch's absolute command geass.
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Old 2009-03-06, 18:41   Link #4018
bladeofdarkness
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forget useful
think in terms of power over a person's mind
and lelouch can erase memories too you know

and the whole "solitude" didnt seem to apply to charles and marianne
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Old 2009-03-06, 18:47   Link #4019
Narona
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Originally Posted by bladeofdarkness View Post
forget useful
think in terms of power over a person's mind
and lelouch can erase memories too you know

and the whole "solitude" didnt seem to apply to charles and marianne
I have the feeling that C.C. was mainly talking about two things:

- Because of the geass you tend to lost everything for many reason. Like becoming a bad and vain person because of holding a great power. In the end, you do mistakes and you start losing everything.

- Because ultimaly the geass is supposed to be the first step to that great power that Immortality is. But because of it, you lose everything because of the flow of time. C.C. doesn't think that anymore apparently, but she thought that in the past.
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Old 2009-03-06, 19:32   Link #4020
azul120
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bladeofdarkness View Post
topic shift
i didnt know if this should be here or on the generic thread but since it concerns lelouch then its here
do you think its possible for geass to have a genetic element to it
a person must be given a geass by a code possesor but do you think its possible to have a genetic effinity for geass powers
since over time and use the geass grows more powerful the change in the body of the user must also take place
is it possible for a geass users children to inheret some of those changes ?
if you take all the geass users in the show there is a distinct difference in how their geass works and effects people
mao, C.C and rolo's geass has a very small very specific effect on the person being geassed (rolo's is the most invasive and it almost kills him to use it)
bismark's power effects only HIS mind
on the other hand you have charles and marianne who both posses a geass that effects another persons mind completely and allows them to either rearange it to their will or to take over it entirely and use the body as a tool (while the target mind is sleeping)
charles's brotehr V.V was able to reach a level that allows him to take a code very early on (lelouch was powerful enough in a year, mao didnt make it after 9 years)
and the son of charles and marianne has the most powerful geass in the show allowing him to completely impose his will on others to the point that they will kill themselves and smile while doing it if he asks them to
its so overpowered that he takes over the entire WORLD within months of losing any morals he has
lelouch's geass also shares other things with his parents geass
all three are the types that require direct eye contact to use (the only non vi-britannia geass that has that is the one used by the kid in the geass cult, and even he didnt take over the mind but mearly the body)
is it possible that lelouch being a 2nd gen geass user gives him a more natural effinity and hence a much stronger geass then otehrs
I'd say it's more a matter of writing than Lelouch's morals.
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