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Old 2009-05-16, 07:02   Link #4201
bladeofdarkness
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thats something i dont really understand
why do people keep saying that its an open ending (or at least that it looks like one)
lelouch has a death scene that lasts for around 5 whole minutes
including an "its a wonderful life, flashback"
a full on explantion about how his death is only the beginning
famus last words
and a whole "dying in the arms of your loved ones" shtick
i dont think i have ever seen a more definitive death scene in my life

and yet people say that it looks like its an open ending ?
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Old 2009-05-16, 07:11   Link #4202
Nogitsune
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bladeofdarkness View Post
thats something i dont really understand
why do people keep saying that its an open ending (or at least that it looks like one)
lelouch has a death scene that lasts for around 5 whole minutes
including an "its a wonderful life, flashback"
a full on explantion about how his death is only the beginning
famus last words
and a whole "dying in the arms of your loved ones" shtick
i dont think i have ever seen a more definitive death scene in my life

and yet people say that it looks like its an open ending ?
Let's see... we have immortals (and Charles was touching Lelouch when he disappeared)... Nunally gets strange flashbacks... C.C. is dragging a crane around instead of a chess piece (not that that's prove or anything, but if it had been the black king, the ending wouldn't look open to me anymore xD), and she randomly talks to Lelouch.
The latter was bound to get fans speculating.
And when I watched it for the first time, I couldn't help but feel that the ending left a loophole on purpose. I secretly blame Kaori Yuki - I've read too many of her open endings.
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Old 2009-05-16, 07:12   Link #4203
bladeofdarkness
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but the death scene was definitive
it couldnt be any more clear that its a DEATH scene
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Old 2009-05-16, 07:15   Link #4204
Nogitsune
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Originally Posted by bladeofdarkness View Post
but the death scene was definitive
it couldnt be any more clear that its a DEATH scene
Tell that to Kaori Yuki. xD
Not if you have immortals around.
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Old 2009-05-16, 12:33   Link #4205
demon_god04
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Except that you lose Geass if you take the code, so we know Lelouch did not take Charles' code and C.C appears to still have hers at the end. Using that as your sole justification is like saying that there are vegetarians around so Lelouch is a vegetarian.
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Old 2009-05-16, 12:38   Link #4206
snowdevil_crow
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There's room for speculation that one can still use Geass if they take the Code from someone other than the person who gave them Geass, but it's just that --- speculation. We don't know enough about how the whole Code-transfer works to be conclusive about it either way.

That said, everything else points to "nah, he's really dead". The dramatic death-scene, the shadows under his eyes (both indicative of 'dead, really dead, no seriously he's GONE' in this anime), Lelouch's character towards the end, and staff interviews... everything. There's still some ambiguity there, but it's hardly concrete fact.
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Old 2009-05-16, 12:42   Link #4207
bladeofdarkness
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Originally Posted by snowdevil_crow View Post
There's room for speculation that one can still use Geass if they take the Code from someone other than the person who gave them Geass, but it's just that --- speculation. We don't know enough about how the whole Code-transfer works to be conclusive about it either way.

That said, everything else points to "nah, he's really dead". The dramatic death-scene, the shadows under his eyes (both indicative of 'dead, really dead, no seriously he's GONE' in this anime), Lelouch's character towards the end, and staff interviews... everything. There's still some ambiguity there, but it's hardly concrete fact.
concrete fact ?
its not even concrete ambiguity
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Old 2009-05-16, 13:04   Link #4208
Nogitsune
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Maybe there was never room for speculation even without the Word of God, and the people who still try to convince those who refuse to even listen to them simply love wasting their time.
I mean, there are some people who claim that the notion that Lelouch might have become immortal was ridiculous from the very start, yet they are usually the ones who just can't let the topic go.
If the ending really was so completely clear, then it would be like half of the fanbase insisting that Lelouch was really a girl, and the rest writing whole novels about why that's an unbelievable stupid idea.
So... yeah. I have said everything I had to say on the topic and more, so I'll now go back to being a more or less silent, very amused observer.
It's good to not really care either way (even though I'd have liked Okouchi leaving me my 0,1% chance of Lelouch being a live, simply for the feeling and because I prefer Taniguchi's "not spelling everything out and leaving people to their own interpretation" policy).
Yep, being a fangirl is fun.
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Old 2009-05-17, 09:45   Link #4209
youngde
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Well, as far as I'm concerned the ending was ambiguous when it aired because there was always the chance that Lelouch did some crazy Geass/Code/Immortal thing and survived. As far as him not leaving Kallen/Nunally, with Lelouch's screwed up logic he may think they would be better without him, and it's his responsibility to do the whole 'watch the world from the shadows' thing. As for leaving Suzaku as Zero for the rest of his life, let's just face it, Suzaku would punish himself the rest of his life regardless; at least Lelouch would have given him a punishment that would be useful.

Still, the writer says he's dead. I suppose Lelouch could be 'dead' while L.L. is alive (and that's certainly how they would probably spin it if it happens), but I'm pretty sure at this point, the original ending of the story was to have him dead and stay dead (barring the will of SUNRISE). At any rate, the writer also said that Lelouch and C.C. weren't lovers, and I think most would agree that Lelouch wouldn't go living happily ever after w/ her even if she were.

youngde, signing off.

P.S., I noticed something weird on AS airing of CG last night. At the point when Lelouch tells Kallen to live, they show her noticing, but then the moment when she yells at the BKs to wait before Rolo bursts in was cut for some reason. I mean, why? Is scheduling so tight that they need to cut 2 seconds of the episode to make it fit? Doesn't make sense to me.
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Old 2009-05-17, 09:47   Link #4210
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Quote:
Originally Posted by youngde View Post

P.S., I noticed something weird on AS airing of CG last night. At the point when Lelouch tells Kallen to live, they show her noticing, but then the moment when she yells at the BKs to wait before Rolo bursts in was cut for some reason. I mean, why? Is scheduling so tight that they need to cut 2 seconds of the episode to make it fit? Doesn't make sense to me.
Actually, the moment Kallen screams "wait", is after Toudou orders to shoot the Shinkirou too. Rolo has already entered the BK-fest hallway. 8D
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Old 2009-05-19, 07:47   Link #4211
calvinguy
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In regards to whether Lelouch is alive or not, it could go either way. The directors ended the series in a very clever way, they did declare that Lelouch is dead, but they also did leave enough evidence leading up to his death that could show that he did survive.

Lets go back to when Charles was about to die, the directors could have just let Charles die like Marianne, but instead they show him having physical contact with Lelouch before he actually dissapeared. Charles may or may not have transfered the code to Lelouch, but because he did have physical contact, it leaves this idea open.

The directors also leave other clues such as Orange smiling when Lelouch is about to be killed, for someone who is so loyal to Lelouch, why would he be smiling when his master is about to die? Maybe he's smiling becuase Lelouch is finally able to acomplish what he wanted, and he is geniunely happy helping Lelouch achieve this. Or he could be happy becuase he knows that Lelouch isn't actually going to die. Again the fact that the directors decided to do this leaves this idea open.

Another example would be the ending where C.C is riding on the wagon, they could have simply shown the wagon drivers face, but instead they decide to leave his face hidden. This was definitely done deliberately. There are also a bunch of smaller clues such as the paper crane or the images seen by nunnally when she touched Lelouchs hands.

I know that the interviews claim that Lelouch is dead, but they could just turn it around and say that Lelouch in name is dead. He loses his name, his friends, family, his lifestyle and has to live a secluded life as someone else.

The directors could have killed Lelouch off and left us with no hope, but they choose to leave small subtle hints. Doing this they leave room for a 3rd season if they wanted to, or if they don't then Lelouch can stay dead and its no big deal.

The 3rd season could even be with completely different characters in a different time frame with Lelouch and C.C having just a brief appearance (since they would be immortal) and I'm sure all the fans would be happy. This way they don't have to drag on Lelouch's story.

Well after having said all that, Lelouch will most likely remain dead and a 3rd season won't happen, but hey its definitely not impossible.
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Old 2009-05-19, 11:12   Link #4212
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bladeofdarkness View Post
but the death scene was definitive
it couldnt be any more clear that its a DEATH scene
They want you to believe that!

But he will be in the new Spice and Wolf, it was confirmed
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Old 2009-05-19, 11:19   Link #4213
bladeofdarkness
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maybe they should have had him crap his pants when he died
according to southpark thats the only way to completely confirm death
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Old 2009-05-19, 11:31   Link #4214
Haak
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Could someone please translate this?:
http://img395.imageshack.us/img395/3955/000dhwrrjy1.jpg

And yes, it is to do with Lelouch.
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Old 2009-05-19, 11:33   Link #4215
Betteroffer
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If da' corpse didn't sh*t,
Don't bury it!
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Old 2009-05-19, 11:36   Link #4216
FruitsPunchSamurai
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Okay who ever brought up up this subject of Lelouch being alive all I can say is this "Why in god's name would you wan to destroy the significance the ending brought by having him being alive?" Just let it go, he's dead confirmed by the staff on two separate occasions while Taniguichi is still ambiguous just to milk the franchise but think of the logic of the situation, Lelouch died in front of millions more or less afterward his body was carried to an autopsy and then buried, for him to manage to escape from a coffin beneath 10ft of dirt is impossible and no neither Jeremiah or Sayoko would not dig him up because they all seem contempt with his fate in the last Picture Drama, speaking of which what's the point in even making it the last one when Lelouch can be revived so easily thus destroying another sound moment. I always consider the ending to be the best part in R2 and saved it from becoming a disaster, still a trainwreck though, so I'm confused as to why fans would want him alive after all that's happened.
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Old 2009-05-19, 11:42   Link #4217
bladeofdarkness
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I'm with FruitsPunchSamurai
lelouch being alive ruins the ending
the fact that he died in the end for the sake of the plan is what made me like him again after seeing what an absolute ass he had become during the final arc
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Old 2009-05-19, 11:57   Link #4218
Orga777
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You guys are still argueing over Lelouch being dead or alive? Ooy... He is dead folks, and it is better that way.
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Old 2009-05-19, 12:03   Link #4219
Kid Ying
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I think a resurrection would ruin the ending if Lelouch planned to be alive. If something else saved him, i don't think it would do anything. The whole point of it it's his sacrifice, and he did that. If, Rolo reappeared as a cyborg(well, it could happen and we know it ) and saved him or something like that, it wouldn't ruin the ending, Lelouch is alive, but he still sacrificed himself and it's not his fault that Cyborg Rolo was there to save him.

The main problem is: Why they would resurrect him? I don't think of a good reason except for milking the franchise, so let him have his rest cause the guy deserved it.
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Old 2009-05-19, 12:08   Link #4220
bladeofdarkness
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"thus ends the tale of lelouch vi britannia"
"but the story of mankind is a never ending war for survival"
"and war... war never changes"
rep for the first person to say where its from (should be easy)
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