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Old 2009-10-10, 16:33   Link #5881
bladeofdarkness
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what ?
kaguya is not the ruler of the UFN
she's the chair woman
thats like saying ban-ki moon is the ruler of the UN
kaguya is simply the chair woman of a collection of states that votes democratically on what they do as a group
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Old 2009-10-10, 16:34   Link #5882
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Lelouch did killed many, but in his position, power could have corrupted him. People die all the time, and every war has it's casualties. So Lelouch was not Superman, but he was a human who had to kill certain people to get somewhere, or else he could have just lived his normal, boring life, and not use geass fearing death to others. It wasn't a very pleasant experience for Lelouch, who did lose his loved ones. Id he was purely evil, he would have really taken Zero Requiem a step farther, and killed the members of Black Knight's, and Nunally to make his emperor self even more sinister, and evil. Did he do that? No, he was just acting as an evil emperor. The fact that he even went with Zero Requiem shows that someone as powerful as Lelouch would give away his position for a better world.
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Old 2009-10-10, 16:36   Link #5883
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Originally Posted by HollowScar View Post
Lelouch did killed many, but in his position, power could have corrupted him. People die all the time, and every war has it's casualties. So Lelouch was not Superman, but he was a human who had to kill certain people to get somewhere, or else he could have just lived his normal, boring life, and not use geass fearing death to others. It wasn't a very pleasant experience for Lelouch, who did lose his loved ones. Id he was purely evil, he would have really taken Zero Requiem a step farther, and killed the members of Black Knight's, and Nunally to make his emperor self even more sinister, and evil. Did he do that? No, he was just acting as an evil emperor. The fact that he even went with Zero Requiem shows that someone as powerful as Lelouch would give away his position for a better world.
LELOUCH STARTED THE FINAL ROUND OF THE WAR
or at least, chose to continue it when he was in a position to end it peacefully
he may have had to kill people to GET to a position of power, but once he was IN that position, he could have ended the war peacefully
instead he chose to do that stupid zero-requiem thing and killed even more people
he didnt HAVE to kill all those people to be hated when he could simply make peace like a sane person
THATS the problem
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Old 2009-10-10, 16:55   Link #5884
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Well if he made peace like a sane person, people would be confused. Think about it. He is a Britannian, and Zero is a suspected Eleven. It is easy for people to pick sides and fight against each other if they have two heroes. Lelouch is supposed to be an ordinary emperor, but Zero is the sign of justice. In a way he kind of gave a huge 'F you' to his family by putting himself in that position of evil, and ruining some of the respect for Britannians. He chose for everyone to respect Zero and look at Zero as a savior, who will then decide how Japan could be a better place. In other words, he wanted everyone to focus on Zero, rather than the emperor, as an emperor can be replaced with another one who might be even worse. Zero lives on, as a person, and as a sign.
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Old 2009-10-10, 16:59   Link #5885
bladeofdarkness
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Well if he made peace like a sane person, people would be confused. Think about it. He is a Britannian, and Zero is a suspected Eleven. It is easy for people to pick sides and fight against each other if they have two heroes. Lelouch is supposed to be an ordinary emperor, but Zero is the sign of justice. In a way he kind of gave a huge 'F you' to his family by putting himself in that position of evil, and ruining some of the respect for Britannians. He chose for everyone to respect Zero and look at Zero as a savior, who will then decide how Japan could be a better place. In other words, he wanted everyone to focus on Zero, rather than the emperor, as an emperor can be replaced with another one who might be even worse. Zero lives on, as a person, and as a sign.
what ?
what kinda bullshit reason is that to start killing people over ?
zero is dead
you dont need zero as a symbol
you dont need symbols at all
just sign a peace treaty, blame charles for all the shit that happened before, and spend his life improving the world in what ever way he can

keep in mind that if suzaku is ever unmasked, there would be hell to pay
after what he did (he is every bit as responsible for everything lelouch did) he'd be hung from the tallest building they can find
even if they have to BUILD a sufficiently tall building to hang him from
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Old 2009-10-10, 17:11   Link #5886
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Nope, Suzaku is safe, as long as Nunally is empress, and Schnizel follows Zero. Cornelia also owes him for saving her, and being a personal Knight to Euphemia.

i know it sounds like bullshit, but it did work. Zero is someone easy to understand and for him to be pure, Lelouch had to remove him from that position. He did not kill that many people, and did die, without causing any harm to Black Knight's or Nunally.

Sign a peace treaty for what? The liberation of Japan? So you are saying that Lelouch should have signed a peace treaty liberating both, just like Euphemia wanted. He could have done that, but then who would people look up to during crises? Lelouch did kill his father to get there, so that does not make him a saint. Unfortunately, this is where I reach a limitation, and cannot go any further in argument. So I urge others to explain to me why Lelouch would go with the Zero Requiem, if he could have just signed a peace treaty liberating Japan. Please contribute. Thank you.
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Old 2009-10-10, 17:16   Link #5887
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Who says Lelouch believed in democracy? When he's talking to C.C in his private jet you can tell he really doesn't believe in it. He gives the impression that democracy is just another system that can be exploited by those in power (and it really is). He's the kind of guy who actually does believe monarchy because as an absolute ruler your word is law, whereas in democracy you get tangled up in beurocracy and what not. It is easier to do good as an absolute ruler than as a democratic ruler, who has to contend with opposition from lobbyists and special interest groups who usually don't have good interests...
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Old 2009-10-10, 17:16   Link #5888
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The liberation of Japan ?
who do you think lelouch needed liberation FROM
britannia
of which lelouch was the emperor

Quote:
he could have done that, but then who would people look up to during crises?
and i REALLY hope no crisis ever comes up if people would need to look up to suzaku to solve it
he's not suitable for the task of zero beyond as a symbolic figure
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Old 2009-10-10, 17:32   Link #5889
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Lelouch wanted liberation, so there would be no injustice. Remember, that he did live the life of a refuge, when he was sent away by his father, and his sister was considered weak. He just wanted a place where people could coexist with each other, and Social Darwinism would not exist.

Suzaku has his heart in the right place, and with his "live geass" can live long enough to see that nothing goes wrong. Both Nunally, and Suzaku may not be as intelligent as Lelouch, but together they can enforce justice. Suzaku now only has to live with a mask, addressing others, and living for their sake, so if anything wrong occurs, he can fix it. In other words, Lelouch made it such that Japan could be liberated, and evil shall not exist within the nobility who are in position of power. Other than that, f anyone oppresses, Zero will deal with them.
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Old 2009-10-10, 17:39   Link #5890
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Originally Posted by HollowScar View Post
Lelouch wanted liberation, so there would be no injustice. Remember, that he did live the life of a refuge, when he was sent away by his father, and his sister was considered weak. He just wanted a place where people could coexist with each other, and Social Darwinism would not exist..
lelouch is the emperor of the country that opresses japan
he can just LEAVE
and apparently he did, since milly says area 11 is now japan again
he also freed all the other areas BEFORE he turned evil, so what was the point of zero-requiem

Quote:
Suzaku has his heart in the right place, and with his "live geass" can live long enough to see that nothing goes wrong. Both Nunally, and Suzaku may not be as intelligent as Lelouch, but together they can enforce justice. Suzaku now only has to live with a mask, addressing others, and living for their sake, so if anything wrong occurs, he can fix it. In other words, Lelouch made it such that Japan could be liberated, and evil shall not exist within the nobility who are in position of power. Other than that, f anyone oppresses, Zero will deal with them.
suzaku, for all his abilities, is not suited to the kind of role zero plays
he can handle the task so long as he is just a figure head, but if he ever has to actually DO things like what lelouch needed to do as zero, he'd be in big trouble
he's not a politician, he's not a strategist, and he's not a leader
suzaku is a glorified pilot
and if something actually happens that requires "zero" to deal with it, he's out of his league
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Old 2009-10-10, 18:10   Link #5891
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Originally Posted by bladeofdarkness View Post
what ?
kaguya is not the ruler of the UFN
she's the chair woman
thats like saying ban-ki moon is the ruler of the UN
kaguya is simply the chair woman of a collection of states that votes democratically on what they do as a group
I am pretty sure the delegates for the other countries are mutes. Kaguya certainly runs the UFN as a dictatorship.

As for Zero Requiem, its an obvious attempt to be deep by making Lelouch out to be a martyr who dies for the sins of the Earth.
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Old 2009-10-10, 18:13   Link #5892
bladeofdarkness
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all i know is that kaguya's official position is chairwoman of the UFN
and other then bringing proposals to a vote, she doesnt do much
she's doesnt have any real power of her own
she's just "master of ceremonies" for the UFN assembly

and zero-requiem was a poor way to excuse having the black knights take part in the last battle against lelouch
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Old 2009-10-10, 18:22   Link #5893
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Suzaku does not have to make any major decisions. Lelouch made them already, and set the plan in motion. Now Schnizel could make the big, smart decisions, under the command of Zero. Nunally maintains the peace. Suzaku keeps the status, and makes the appearances if needed to show everyone that he is making a difference. All in all, they will collaborate with each other after Zero Requiem. Not sure what Cornellia will do, since she knew Zero was Lelouch. Out of all the character's, I think she had an easy exit, without being punished.
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Old 2009-10-10, 18:24   Link #5894
bladeofdarkness
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and if anyone ever exposes who suzaku is beneath the mask (like say... kanon) then suzaku is screwed
he'd be executed for crimes against humanity on the spot
and the world would fall into a big mess as everyone discovers they had been led by a war criminal without knowing it
goodbye UFN (a political body zero created)
goodbye nunnaly (someone who works side by side with suzaku for a long time
welcome anarchy
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Old 2009-10-10, 18:39   Link #5895
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Um, how come? Suzaku is Suzaku. If he get's exposed and hanged, he would still come back with, "live geass". He could explain to them that his cause did lead to a better world. Maybe by the time he get's exposed, people will forget who Suzaku Kururugi was.
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Old 2009-10-10, 18:43   Link #5896
bladeofdarkness
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Um, how come? Suzaku is Suzaku. If he get's exposed and hanged, he would still come back with, "live geass". He could explain to them that his cause did lead to a better world. Maybe by the time he get's exposed, people will forget who Suzaku Kururugi was.
what ?
the "live"geass thing isnt a magical cure that brings him back to life if he dies
its a hypnotic suggestion that allows him to push himself to his limits and keeps him from allowing himself to be killed
if he dies, he dies, and he'd have the entire world trying to kill him

and who's except such a bullshit reason as "we did it for the best"
lelouch's reign as emperor is considered the most horrifying time in history
suzaku is guilty of the biggest crime against humanity ever commited by putting lelouch in power
and he was worshiped as a HERO for killing a tyrant that he helped put in power in the first place
if he is exposed, expect people to be calling for his head within two minutes
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Old 2009-10-10, 19:09   Link #5897
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Yeah, so there really is no way to escape this deception. A web of lies. Suzaku could of course change his face just in case, like Sayako who did kick some ass. I like her, as I am into sweet and good hearted MILFs.

Getting back into topic, Lelouch could have very well completed the contract with C.C., and lived to guide Suzaku. They both could use a decent plastic surgery. Ahh, a royal cover up.

I like lelouch because the way he is. Remember in the episode with Rolo's death, Lelouch said that if he goes to hell, he will make sure he takes his father down with him. It's that attitude, that makes him a badass, and not just some goodie two shoes who always does the right thing, and never does anything bad.
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Old 2009-10-10, 19:15   Link #5898
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I like lelouch because the way he is. Remember in the episode with Rolo's death, Lelouch said that if he goes to hell, he will make sure he takes his father down with him. It's that attitude, that makes him a badass, and not just some goodie two shoes who always does the right thing, and never does anything bad.
Yes, Lelouch is awesome.
I think I fell in love with him the moment he shot Clovis.
Which is ironic, because we all know I worship the very ground the Third Prince walks on.
Oh well. A bit of royal family drama never hurt anyone... errr... except those who got shot.
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Old 2009-10-10, 19:20   Link #5899
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I am sorry, but why did Lelouch kill Clovis? I missed that part.

Lelouch is awesome, because he chose to stand out of the mass, and make a difference for others. He may have been shallow, but many of his loved ones changed him, as he went through. He was a good looking, intelligent guy, who could have done much better in life without trying, or even being a prince, but he went out of his way, to give others freedom, in exchange for some valuable lives. He died at such a young age, that it was just unfair, but nevertheless showed that he could accomplish so much in so little time.
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Old 2009-10-10, 19:27   Link #5900
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I am sorry, but why did Lelouch kill Clovis? I missed that part.
Well, first he though Clovis had been involved in The Incident, of course.
And then he just went through with it. You know how it is... a bit of hatred, a bit of power trip, a bit of "if I want to change the world, I have to get my hands dirty" mentality. Oh, and he didn't know Clovis had a serious brother complex.
Some people say it was all to gain credibility, but that's not what it looked like to me. When Lelouch went in there, he wasn't thinking about publicity, but revenge. When he learned he wouldn't get the latter, it became a matter of resolve. He only used Clovis' death afterwards.

Quote:
Lelouch is awesome, because he chose to stand out of the mass, and make a difference for others. He may have been shallow, but many of his loved ones changed him, as he went through. He was a good looking, intelligent guy, who could have done much better in life without trying, or even being a prince, but he went out of his way, to give others freedom, in exchange for some valuable lives. He died at such a young age, that it was just unfair, but nevertheless showed that he could accomplish so much in so little time.
I never thought Lelouch was shallow. Just self-absorbed.
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