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Old 2009-12-08, 15:12   Link #6381
Kuroshinobu
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bladeofdarkness View Post
only if the end actually REQUIRES the means
zero-requiem was not required to bring about world peace, a simple peace treaty between Britannia and the UFN would have done just as well
and would not have required Lelouch to commit mass murder
The majority of the stronger forces did not trust Lelouch, the Black Knights knew of his geass and feared it. During the meeting that took place, Lelouch stepped forward stating he had killed his father, this was not met well by the other members of royalty.

Even if Lelouch did things peacefully, with the UFN and Britannia signing a treaty, there will still be other rogue powers at work.

Lelouch used himself as a symbol of hate, by killing and mass murdering to instigate fear for everyone in the world. With FLEIA at his hands he could have decimated cities like nothing.

In the end he chose to kill himself to repent for his sins and so the world realize that they don't want another tyrant, so they talk it over a meeting as opposed to war.
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Old 2009-12-08, 15:17   Link #6382
bladeofdarkness
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kuroshinobu View Post
The majority of the stronger forces did not trust Lelouch, the Black Knights knew of his geass and feared it. During the meeting that took place, Lelouch stepped forward stating he had killed his father, this was not met well by the other members of royalty.
the black knights trust could have been rebuilt (since he could PROVE he didnt use geass on them)
all he had to do was use geass on royalty and become emperor
then live life as emperor of justice

Quote:
Even if Lelouch did things peacefully, with the UFN and Britannia signing a treaty, there will still be other rogue powers at work.
the world is devided into only two forces at that point
britannia and the UFN
there ARE no other nations that could get in the way

Quote:
Lelouch used himself as a symbol of hate, by killing and mass murdering to instigate fear for everyone in the world. With FLEIA at his hands he could have decimated cities like nothing.

In the end he chose to kill himself to repent for his sins and so the world realize that they don't want another tyrant, so they talk it over a meeting as opposed to war.
he could have used charles as the "symbol of hate" (the war was after all, his doing)
and use LELOUCH as the symbol of justice (emperor of justice) for killing him
and just END THE WAR like a sane person

instead, he willingly CHOSE to become a mass murderer
which by default, makes him a douchebag villain protagonist rather then an anti-hero
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Old 2009-12-08, 15:36   Link #6383
Kuroshinobu
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You're pretty set on disliking his actions aren't you haha?

Let's not forget that he also wanted everyone to forget Euphemia the "Massacre Princess." It was his fault that she had gone on a rampage, he knew that even if it was an accident. He even told Suzaku that after Zero Requiem had gone through with the mass killing, no one will remember the incident with Euphemia, and she wouldn't have been remembered as the princess who ruthlessly murdered Japanese people.
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Old 2009-12-08, 15:47   Link #6384
bladeofdarkness
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the reason i dislike his actions in the last arc vary into many things (his character gets shot to hell)
but the point i keep making and you keep missing is rather simple

Lelouch became a MASS MURDERER !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
as in, a person, who MURDERS PEOPLE ON MASS

and unlike before when he was zero, there isnt even a good reason for it
he RULES britannia
the world war could end the moment he SAYS SO
there is no need for zero-requiem at all in order to create peace, he can do so with a peace of paper

and your point about euphie ALSO misses the point
he wasnt TAKING RESPONSIBILITY for her actions and CLEARING HER NAME
he simply commited SO MUCH WORST THINGS, that people forgot about her
Lelouch become a mass murderer to make people forget about a woman, who would roll over in her grave if she knew what he, and her old boyfriend, were doing
especially if she knew he was using HER as an excuse
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Old 2009-12-08, 16:05   Link #6385
Kuroshinobu
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You state that I miss yours when I clearly mention them in my previous posts. Yes, he became a mass murderer, but that was because he CHOSE to.

I'm not a fool, I know what a mass murderer is, I know what it entitles. However; we both can state our ideas over and over but that doesn't change the fact that he's dead because his plan in the end worked.

Nunnally is the empress now, and she is by far more pure than Lelouch, Charles or Schneizel, despite the latter having no wish to become emperor.

In addition to that, Lelouch did what he did to clear Euphemia's name so that Suzaku could rest a little easier. Even if he was doomed to being a symbol for the rest of his life.
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Old 2009-12-08, 16:09   Link #6386
Nobodyman9
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blade can handle the rest, but I'm just going to say he did NOT clear Euphie's name. All he did was act like the biggest murdering bastard possible so that people would forget about her. It's not the same thing.
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Old 2009-12-08, 16:12   Link #6387
Kuroshinobu
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It's not the same thing, but regardless people forgot about her. Lelouch did this out of his own accord, all of us can argue other wise but this is what he did. This is what the directors intended. You can say that his character was just thrown out the window but I think that it was a very good ending to the season and despite how I feel that he should have lived on, the directors said otherwise.
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Old 2009-12-08, 16:24   Link #6388
bladeofdarkness
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for someone who understands what mass murder means, you sure do like to ignore it

would any other character be treated with such kindness ?
would you extend the same kindness to clovis and cornellia ?
after all, in THEIR minds, what they were doing was also for the best
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Old 2009-12-08, 16:26   Link #6389
Kuroshinobu
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You're treating me like I was born yesterday. I'm not an idiot, I know what it means. But what's the point of even arguing if the person who did it is already dead?
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Old 2009-12-08, 16:28   Link #6390
bladeofdarkness
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i'm arguing that the person who did it is a DOUCHEBAG for having done it
that there was nothing heroic or noble about it, and that while he may not have deserved to die BEFORE doing those things, he sure as hell did after them
espeically since this is exactly what he hated britannia for doing in the past
and even MORE so, because there was no NEED for it at all
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Old 2009-12-08, 16:29   Link #6391
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So there's no point in debating Lelouch's endgame since he's dead?
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Old 2009-12-08, 16:30   Link #6392
Kuroshinobu
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Alright alright whatever, I'm just going to drop it before I get a warning.

Which ever the case, the next empress will look like a saint compared to him.
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Old 2009-12-08, 16:32   Link #6393
Meatrose
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Which ever the case, the next empress will look like a saint compared to him.
Oh, she most certainly will. =)
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Old 2009-12-08, 16:34   Link #6394
Kuroshinobu
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Oh, she most certainly will. =)
Oh the wonders of little girls running a nation.
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Old 2009-12-08, 16:35   Link #6395
bladeofdarkness
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even if they are ALSO douche bags themselves
while i dont believe for a sec that she would do so, nunnaly could be a HORRIBLE dictator, and still be viewed as "a saint" when compared to lelouch

instead of setting the bar higher, he set it so low, that someone like charles would seem like an improvement

thats another thing about zero-requiem that is fucked up
instead of setting a role model for other emperors to aspire to be like, he set the standard by which evil is mesured
the emperor after nunnaly could turn into saddam husain and still be considered better

and dont worry about getting warnings over this
you're suppose to debate things here after all
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Old 2009-12-08, 16:41   Link #6396
Kuroshinobu
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We won't know what happens after Zero Requiem until official media comes out for it. Until then anything is possible, but it was shown that after Zero Requiem, nations were working to bring about peace together, even if there are struggles along the way.
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Old 2009-12-08, 16:55   Link #6397
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Can we just agree that Lelouch is a screwed up, screwed up guy who's probably made the world worse-off than it already was and leave it at that? xD
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Old 2009-12-08, 16:57   Link #6398
bladeofdarkness
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considering that he destroyed about 70% of the worlds potential supply of sakuradite when he blew up mount fuji
i'd say he probably did
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Old 2009-12-08, 16:59   Link #6399
Rising Dragon
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Sakuradite that doesn't seem to be used in anything but weapons. Probably did the world a favor by reducing Japan's massive supply of it.
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Old 2009-12-08, 17:07   Link #6400
bladeofdarkness
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actually, the moment Lelouch triggered the gefun disturbers EVERYTHING in the tokyo settlement went dead
and its stated that the gefun disterbers disable anything thats run by sakuradite based energy (thats why jeremiah was stopped by it)
sakuradite is the main energy source in the code geass universe
its like fuel in our world

Lelouch destroyed 70% of the worlds fuel supply
what usually happens when the most importent natural resource on earth gets a whole lot rarer ?
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