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Old 2010-04-18, 00:34   Link #6821
azul120
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Woobie Destroyer of Worlds is essentially Despair Event Horizon carried to destructive on a global scale levels. Lelouch's despair that resulted in his last few acts was more tragic and hurtful than wrong, as for the most part it was an aftereffect of all the suffering and mistakes he had endured, all the way from his childhood banishment from Britannia to the betrayal from the Black Knights.
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Old 2010-04-18, 04:48   Link #6822
bladeofdarkness
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Originally Posted by Sol Falling View Post
lol, but you understand: indeed, even wealth and economic resources represent a burden of the past/present. If you carry those with you into a new world, you aren't really starting with a blank slate.
when did Lelouch start channeling Tyler Durden ?
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Old 2010-04-18, 16:08   Link #6823
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All I have to say

Bob the Builder meet Woobie the Destroyer.

Lelouch is of course Fluffy Smookum Woobie-kun while Bob is the obvious: Spinzaku.
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Old 2010-04-18, 16:36   Link #6824
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I am not going to search all these pages so I will ask here. When exactly did Lulu decided to kill himself? Before geassing Sneizel, after confroting Nannully?
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Old 2010-04-18, 16:45   Link #6825
Sol Falling
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:P lol dude, that's like the minimum for understanding Zero: Requiem on even a basic level. Lelouch decided to kill himself after his confrontation with daddy in the World of C. Everything was already planned before he got out--in terms of the show, everything starting with the scene where he declared himself Emperor was already part of his plan to die.

As for your other question as to how Nunally understood Lelouch's plan in some other thread: it wasn't magic, it was just Nunally knowing Lelouch well enough. When Nunally felt Lelouch's feelings through his hand as he lay dying in front of her, basically she understood that he'd planned to die all along. That alone would be enough for Nunally to pretty much guess anything else she needed to--the exact details of everything don't really matter for her to know.
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Old 2010-04-18, 17:06   Link #6826
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Actually Lelouch was already looking to end himself right BEFORE his confrontation with Charles, to which effect he attempted to seal himself along with said father inside the World of C. Which of course never came to pass, as Charles, along with Marianne, was about to initiate the Ragnarok Connection, and Lelouch stopped that from happening. So the Zero Requiem was his subsequent, and this time, successful attempt at having himself offed.
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Old 2010-04-21, 09:14   Link #6827
kaizerster
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Originally Posted by roriconfan View Post
Adolf Lelouch hated his family and with the excuse to help his coutry regain freedom from the clutches of its masters, deceived, killed, and tortured hundreds of millions of people. In the end he commited suicide while making it look like it was for the best and is now viewed by his followers as a martyr.
Most fail to see the above because he was drawn by CLAMP and because the animators didn't bother to show all the atrocities he committed, all for his sick personal grudge against his family and obsessed caring for a close female relative.
Hail Hitler! All hail Lelouch!
Oh.
And you are the only one that sees the ~~Hitler~~-Lelouch similarity? Ok, congratulations then. That one;s on you.
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Old 2010-04-21, 09:43   Link #6828
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Yep, Lelouch did it all just because he hated his father.
...Sometimes I wonder if some people watched the wrong show. You know, one in which Lelouch is not concerned about people involved in car accidents (unlike everyone else present, including Rivalz), does not go on about how much it affected Suzaku and him to see people suffer as children and how he wants to end the "never ending chain of hated" because of that, in which he does not openly decide to change the world for everyone's sake seven episodes into the second season and knowingly goes against Nunnally's wishes, and in which he does not eventually admit that his sister might just have been an excuse, meaning that it was him who'd wanted a "gentle world" all along and just couldn't admit to having a pure, innocent wish despite being blood-stained and twisted.

But of course, what he really meant was that he did it all out of hatred and threw Nunnally into the equation just to feel better about himself, because it's not like he was ever shown to give a damn about people, or like that's not at all his style as he's the complete opposite of S1!Suzaku who claimed to be just in this regard, or like every second damn preview talked about how he was stuck between the future (a gentle world) and the past (revenge), resulting in him eventually choosing the future over past and present.
Oh, wait.
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Old 2010-04-21, 14:01   Link #6829
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Lelough is a bastard but he's not a goddamn bastard.

Maybe he had too much faith in himself, his logic, and humanity. We'll always argue if he did the right and that's probably the point.

But its obvious he regretted every harsh decision he made, and he did not take any enjoyment out of the deaths he had a hand in. It doesn't excuse his actions, but he didn't find the demon role all that sweet.
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Old 2010-04-22, 04:27   Link #6830
darthfury78
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Originally Posted by Nogitsune View Post
Yep, Lelouch did it all just because he hated his father.
...Sometimes I wonder if some people watched the wrong show. You know, one in which Lelouch is not concerned about people involved in car accidents (unlike everyone else present, including Rivalz), does not go on about how much it affected Suzaku and him to see people suffer as children and how he wants to end the "never ending chain of hated" because of that, in which he does not openly decide to change the world for everyone's sake seven episodes into the second season and knowingly goes against Nunnally's wishes, and in which he does not eventually admit that his sister might just have been an excuse, meaning that it was him who'd wanted a "gentle world" all along and just couldn't admit to having a pure, innocent wish despite being blood-stained and twisted.

But of course, what he really meant was that he did it all out of hatred and threw Nunnally into the equation just to feel better about himself, because it's not like he was ever shown to give a damn about people, or like that's not at all his style as he's the complete opposite of S1!Suzaku who claimed to be just in this regard, or like every second damn preview talked about how he was stuck between the future (a gentle world) and the past (revenge), resulting in him eventually choosing the future over past and present.
Oh, wait.
And a very good example of Lelouch's actions was when he ordered the Black Knights to kill everyone at the Geass Cult. Men, Women, and children. Doesn't this reminds you of Clovis when he ordered the mass murder of the Elevens to cover his pet project at the Shingeko Ghettos in Season One? The actions were quite similar. And Lelouch wanted to take out his vengence for the murder of Shirley, who would NEVER had wanted such an act in her name. This was not the Lelouch that she knew.
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Old 2010-04-22, 05:44   Link #6831
Nogitsune
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Originally Posted by darthfury78 View Post
And a very good example of Lelouch's actions was when he ordered the Black Knights to kill everyone at the Geass Cult. Men, Women, and children. Doesn't this reminds you of Clovis when he ordered the mass murder of the Elevens to cover his pet project at the Shingeko Ghettos in Season One?
Not really. Clovis wasn't at all emotional about the whole thing, while Lelouch obviously kind of snapped there. That, and Lelouch believed that the Geass Cult was dangerous and impossible to control, as Rolo had proven.

Quote:
And Lelouch wanted to take out his vengence for the murder of Shirley, who would NEVER had wanted such an act in her name. This was not the Lelouch that she knew.
Lelouch never claimed that Shirley would have wanted that, though I don't doubt that she'd have forgiven him.

Anyway, no one denied Lelouch had some serious issues. You're missing my point.
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Old 2010-04-22, 11:34   Link #6832
darthfury78
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Originally Posted by Nogitsune View Post
Not really. Clovis wasn't at all emotional about the whole thing, while Lelouch obviously kind of snapped there. That, and Lelouch believed that the Geass Cult was dangerous and impossible to control, as Rolo had proven.



Lelouch never claimed that Shirley would have wanted that, though I don't doubt that she'd have forgiven him.

Anyway, no one denied Lelouch had some serious issues. You're missing my point.
Anyway, Lelouch is free from the chaos known as Geass. And C.C. is stuck by herself, yet again, until another sucker comes along and she finally gets her dying wish.
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Old 2010-04-22, 11:40   Link #6833
Nogitsune
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Anyway, Lelouch is free from the chaos known as Geass. And C.C. is stuck by herself, yet again, until another sucker comes along and she finally gets her dying wish.
Well, C.C. seemed fairly happy, so it will probably be a while before she starts getting tired of life again.

Lelouch... I'm sure he has become a ghost haunting Suzaku's Zero outfit! And every night, he goes out to play with Schneizel.
...Uh, chess, of course. Echem. xD
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Old 2010-04-22, 14:02   Link #6834
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Well, C.C. seemed fairly happy, so it will probably be a while before she starts getting tired of life again.

Lelouch... I'm sure he has become a ghost haunting Suzaku's Zero outfit! And every night, he goes out to play with Schneizel.
...Uh, chess, of course. Echem. xD
Tell me, Nogitsune... Do you know what rhymes with Chess? Because they may say they are doing chess, but I can tell from groaning Schneizel did more then just lose.

>_< OH HOLY CRAP! Did I say that?


Lelouch proved that the power of the king wasn't absolute.

That is what touched C.C.. After living century after century, seeing people consumed by geass probably made her think it simply drove people mad or had them killed directly or indirectly.

Lelouch was different.


He fell into the dark chasm of despair, and he climbed out of it, into the light. Thus he has the 'soul of a king'.

Interpretation from C.C.'s opening dialogue though Don't get me wrong, I am with the realistic fanbase on this one. Lelouch is dead, and I really really doubt he is coming back. xD

"He is okay guys!" XD
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Old 2010-04-22, 14:23   Link #6835
Nogitsune
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*nods in agreement*

Lelouch's perseverance and "kindness" changed C.C. in a way no one else could. He has that effect on people.

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Tell me, Nogitsune... Do you know what rhymes with Chess?
Hum... "less"? o.o

Quote:
Because they may say they are doing chess, but I can tell from groaning Schneizel did more then just lose.

>_< OH HOLY CRAP! Did I say that?
*blinks innocently*
They are doing push-ups? That's bad... I hope Lelouch didn't fall on top of Schenizel~
Poor guy. Being a s... sports slave must be hard, especially since Lelouch has to make up for a life-time of being sports-deprived. Ah, as long as he has the theory down!
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Old 2010-04-22, 14:35   Link #6836
Arbitres
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Hum... "less"? o.o
*face palm*

Quote:
*blinks innocently*
They are doing push-ups? That's bad... I hope Lelouch didn't fall on top of Schenizel~
Poor guy. Being a s... sports slave must be hard, especially since Lelouch has to make up for a life-time of being sports-deprived. Ah, as long as he has the theory down!
Yeah, them stretching their legs can get pretty tiring, you know? At least they have the theory down indeed, now they just have to keep doing it!... Too bad Kallen couldn't get a hot sweaty training session with Lelouch. lol

Nogitsune, we are going to hell for this. You know that? Oh well~

Last edited by xris; 2010-04-22 at 14:44. Reason: Don't make matters worse
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Old 2010-04-22, 14:46   Link #6837
Nogitsune
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*face palm*
I knew I was right! And, as Clovis would add: I always am.

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Yeah, them stretching their legs can get pretty tiring, you know? At least they have the theory down indeed, now they just have to keep doing it!...
I'm sure if Lelouch puts his mind to it, he'll be able to keep it up for as long as he needs to! He's stubborn like that.
Maybe Kannon could join them. He looked like he needed it when Lelouch got to Schneizel back in R2. If he'd just had the stamina to take on the guards... *shakes her head sadly*

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Too bad Kallen couldn't get a hot sweaty training session with Lelouch. lol
She could borrow Suzaku!

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Nogitsune, we are going to hell for this. You know that? Oh well~
I've had a place reserved Down There ever since I randomly made ClovisxLelouchxSuzaku my OTP, and I know for a fact that a room right down the hall is empty - get it, before Mao does! That would just be creepy.
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Old 2010-04-24, 00:20   Link #6838
Paperfairy
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Originally Posted by Sol Falling View Post
Lelouch was never really about saving the world, but rather about destroying and recreating it. Lelouch's destructive impulses came from all the failures and tragedies he'd witnessed--rather than pick things up and try to make the best of them, Lelouch wanted to erase that painful, ugly and burdensome past completely. Lelouch's desire for tomorrow and a 'new world' stemmed from in part fundamentally the idea of giving up and abandoning the present one.
while we're slightly off topic, Haruhi anybody?
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Old 2010-04-29, 10:43   Link #6839
bladeofdarkness
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transfered from Suzaku thread
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Originally Posted by Kittenlady View Post
I suppose you have a point there. The only real explaination is that the royal family is insane. Brilliant, but insane.

And well, according to the show, Lelouch does know best; "We saw it in the World of C" etc.
Lelouch doesn't know best
if shnizel had won, the fight, and it resulted in world peace, would that make HIM "know best" ?
what he saw in the world of peace does not translate into what he did
people wanting a tomorrow might explain why he wanted to stop shnizel
it does not explain what Z-R was about

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Who says? There's no way of knowing that. For the most part, before seeing the world of C, Lelouch just seemed to be looking for a spectacular way to die. I think Nunnally's 'death' and Charles' "You'll be left with Schniezel's world!" were what started the Zero Requiem.
there was that mutality story in which suzaku asks Lelouch if he's sure this is what he wants, and lelouch makes it clear that while there may be other paths to take
THIS is the only path for him
the scene in the end of ep 24 where he and shnizel are talking is basiclly the two of them discussing the merits of each others masterplans
so yeah

Quote:
And while I agree that there are... certain aspects of Zero Requiem that don't really make sense, it's just easier to go along with it rather than argue. Willing suspension of disbelief and all that.
i refuse to accept "just roll with it" as an excuse
if you are planning to rip off watchmen, at least do it properly by admiting that the guy who brings about world peace by deception and mass murder is the villain and not some kinda hero for it

Quote:
Not necessarily, the last arc was very rushed, we didn't get to see very much character insight so it's really up to interpretation. I'm still pissed at not getting a proper resolution between Lelouch and Suzaku. Lelouch did look awfully depressed in that scene with C.C. though.
Lelouch crosses the moral event horizon before the opening song of ep 22
and hits the ground running from there on out
the fact that he admits that he IS willing to kill nunnaly for the sake of this plan, indicates that he considers nothing to be more important then his "Vision"

and the scene with C.C is bullshit
its ment to mirror the scene in ep 23 of season 1, except that it misses the point
what happened to euphie is a tragedy, so there is an actual reason to feel sympathy for Lelouch
what happened in season 2 was Lelouch acting like a complete dick for an entire episode
and then whining like a little girl
he deserved worse
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Old 2010-04-29, 11:26   Link #6840
Kittenlady
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Originally Posted by bladeofdarkness View Post
transfered from Suzaku thread

Lelouch doesn't know best
if shnizel had won, the fight, and it resulted in world peace, would that make HIM "know best" ?
What? Who implied that? The show made it pretty damn clear that "A rule under Damocles" would be quite shitty. Honestly, where did that question come from?

Quote:
what he saw in the world of peace does not translate into what he did
people wanting a tomorrow might explain why he wanted to stop shnizel
it does not explain what Z-R was about
Again, the show explained pretty clearly that it was about 'Uniting the world against a common enemy. Which works in theory, and could work in real life I guess.

I'm not going to try and justify the Zero Requiem. I thought it was a bit silly and just as over the top as everything else in Code Geass, but that doesn't really bother me. I still very much enjoyed it and cried my fucking eyes out.

Quote:
there was that mutality story in which suzaku asks Lelouch if he's sure this is what he wants, and lelouch makes it clear that while there may be other paths to take
THIS is the only path for him
Still depressed over Nunnally at that point, right? At any rate, Schniezel was still a problem. We don't know what he would have done if Schniezel wasn't trying to make half the world disappear in pretty pink sparkles (BEST NUKE EVER).

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i refuse to accept "just roll with it" as an excuse
if you are planning to rip off watchmen, at least do it properly by admiting that the guy who brings about world peace by deception and mass murder is the villain and not some kinda hero for it
Good for you.

Quote:
Lelouch crosses the moral event horizon before the opening song of ep 22
and hits the ground running from there on out
the fact that he admits that he IS willing to kill nunnaly for the sake of this plan, indicates that he considers nothing to be more important then his "Vision"
But he'd have still felt like shit about it, hence the distinction between a sociopath and... whatever Lelouch was.

Quote:
and the scene with C.C is bullshit
its ment to mirror the scene in ep 23 of season 1, except that it misses the point
what happened to euphie is a tragedy, so there is an actual reason to feel sympathy for Lelouch
what happened in season 2 was Lelouch acting like a complete dick for an entire episode
and then whining like a little girl
he deserved worse
I thought it was quite touching, personally, but whatever.

You're conveniently ignoring that he did it on purpose to be the most hated person ever, and that his actions resulted in world peace. Hey, if the show says it worked, it worked. And you know, he did kind of die at the end, so it's not like he got away with it all.
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