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Old 2008-06-14, 09:43   Link #1141
Dean_the_Young
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Originally Posted by Dann of Thursday View Post
I seriously doubt he plans on using her in the way you think. He wants her help and such, but doing it through manipulation is not going to help him in the end and would just backfire.
And how often has Lelouch NOT gone through manipulation to get what he wants, friend and foe alike? Before he learns who Suzaku actually is, he tries to manipulate his friend to allow him to play terrorist abroad. He plays to Kallen's fears and hopes to convince herself to be his unquestioning ally. He plays the Black Knights for fiddles for most of Season 1. He uses knowledge he only got as a close friend of Suzaku to try and emotionally blackmail Suzaku to his side. He goes to the Euphie Day Massacre intending to geass Euphie.

Lelouch only does true quid pro quo with those he either has no real control over and considers nearly equals, such as his Indian mechanic-woman or the Chinese general (both of whom I'm too lazy to look up their correct names).

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Originally Posted by Witacume View Post
Lol pride hurt him since he let Suzaku live. I think he needs a few breaks here and there. one of those breaks will happne next imo.
Pride has hurt him in a number of areas. Pride allowed Cornelia to dominate him in their first encounter, pride saw him beaten by Mao not once but almost twice (if it weren't for Suzaku's super-human abilities), pride caused the Euphie tragedy (which he went to intending to ruin anyway).

Lelouch's flaw is his pride. Lelouch gets so focused on being so in control that nearly any unexpected variable (the cat Arthur, Suzaku, etc.) completely ruin his plans.
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Old 2008-06-14, 09:50   Link #1142
Orga777
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Thumbs up

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dean_the_Young View Post
And how often has Lelouch NOT gone through manipulation to get what he wants, friend and foe alike? Before he learns who Suzaku actually is, he tries to manipulate his friend to allow him to play terrorist abroad. He plays to Kallen's fears and hopes to convince herself to be his unquestioning ally. He plays the Black Knights for fiddles for most of Season 1. He uses knowledge he only got as a close friend of Suzaku to try and emotionally blackmail Suzaku to his side. He goes to the Euphie Day Massacre intending to geass Euphie.

Lelouch only does true quid pro quo with those he either has no real control over and considers nearly equals, such as his Indian mechanic-woman or the Chinese general (both of whom I'm too lazy to look up their correct names).

Pride has hurt him in a number of areas. Pride allowed Cornelia to dominate him in their first encounter, pride saw him beaten by Mao not once but almost twice (if it weren't for Suzaku), pride caused the Euphie tragedy (which he went to intending to ruin anyway).

Lelouch's flaw is his pride. Lelouch gets so focused on being so in control that nearly any unexpected variable (the cat Arthur, Suzaku, etc.) completely ruin his plans.

Wow, I 100% agree with everything you said.
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Old 2008-06-14, 11:09   Link #1143
Dann of Thursday
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The point is that this is the season where Lelouch regains what he lost and stops making so many mistakes, or at least learns from them. This season was said by the staff to be the one where he becomes more likable to viewers, though that will always be impossible to accomplish with some.

And it's rather clear he's sacrificing his plan in order to rescue someone he cares about.
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Old 2008-06-14, 11:28   Link #1144
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Do not forget this also where he learns that things come back to bite him, meaning he will make some mistakes or past ones will return
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Old 2008-06-14, 11:46   Link #1145
Dann of Thursday
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True, but in the end he'll learn from them and succeed in the end.
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Old 2008-06-14, 11:54   Link #1146
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Originally Posted by Dann of Thursday View Post
True, but in the end he'll learn from them and succeed in the end.
Revolutions will not suceeded if the person in charge becomes nice not unless real bs is placed.
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Old 2008-06-14, 11:57   Link #1147
Dann of Thursday
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Who said he has to become nice and happy?
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Old 2008-06-14, 12:01   Link #1148
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Who said he has to become nice and happy?
Not nice and happy but unwilling to do anything it takes the chess game showed one major weakness his pride. Another is unwillingness to sacrifice anyone close to him this can and will bite him in the ass.It already did with Suzaku
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Neo Human Angelus Von Doom to Abyssal Riful before there battle. My fic saga revelations of the past title Advent Rising
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Old 2008-06-14, 12:09   Link #1149
Dann of Thursday
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He knows what he has to do and he will do it. Nothing is going to change that.
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Old 2008-06-14, 12:13   Link #1150
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Originally Posted by Dann of Thursday View Post
He knows what he has to do and he will do it. Nothing is going to change that.
Perhaps but we will see how far he is willing to go.
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Old 2008-06-14, 12:16   Link #1151
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We can respect that much about him, but I failed to see how that makes him more likable in the end, we can assume all we want but we're not even halfway through and after ten episodes I've hardly seen anything to make him seem more likable other than the fact his changed perception of Rolo considering he went from throwing him out like a used wash cloth to him being a full fledge Black Knight, but I never liked Rolo from the get go so it doesn't matter.
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Old 2008-06-14, 12:18   Link #1152
Dann of Thursday
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All that was said is that he would become more likable this season. No info on how that would be done and the fact is that some people will still dislike him no matter what happens in the show.
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Old 2008-06-14, 12:18   Link #1153
Vallen Chaos Valiant
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Originally Posted by Yorae_paladin1 View Post
Perhaps but we will see how far he is willing to go.
He will go as far as it takes to succeed. And never more.

What people who were willing to do ANYTHING to succeed failed to realize, is that if you don't set up parameters defining what it means to "win", you can accidentally win the battle but lose the war.

Those who were willing to do anything and everything, generally go crazy and forget where they were going. Thus they lose.

Lulu stays on target. He wouldn't lose sight of his goals for temporary glorification.
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Old 2008-06-14, 13:39   Link #1154
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Originally Posted by Vallen Chaos Valiant View Post
Lulu stays on target. He wouldn't lose sight of his goals for temporary glorification.

Lelouch is a regular ego-mastebator. It ties in with his flaw of pride, and often causes real problems for him. Such as the who deal with being so furious with Euphie's SAZ, because it wasn't his victory, and then with the tragedy, when he was boasting about all the horrible things he could make her do. He was that way at the beginning of the series during his first fight against Cornelia, he was that way at the end of the first season, and there's been little indication that that has changed in the second season.
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Old 2008-06-14, 13:41   Link #1155
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He came around and swallowed his pride about the SAZ. He was just making a list of ridiculous things he would never ever order her to do. He was trying to make her believe him.
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Old 2008-06-14, 13:55   Link #1156
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Originally Posted by Dann of Thursday View Post
He came around and swallowed his pride about the SAZ. He was just making a list of ridiculous things he would never ever order her to do. He was trying to make her believe him.
That was pretty blatant ego-stroking, the way he kept trying to convince her of his power. It was rather amusing the lengths he kept going when she was obviously humoring him. With a might of self control, everything would have turned out better for everyone.
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Old 2008-06-14, 14:13   Link #1157
Orga777
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Originally Posted by Dean_the_Young View Post
That was pretty blatant ego-stroking, the way he kept trying to convince her of his power. It was rather amusing the lengths he kept going when she was obviously humoring him. With a might of self control, everything would have turned out better for everyone.
Yeah, I have to agree again. Especially since that is probably the most sickening thing he has done in the series IMO... Except of course using the outcome of that to futher his selfish cause that is.

I just don't see how they can possibly make him more likable. He has done so many nasty things by this point that I just don't think it is possible. Can someone even name me ONE instance where he didn't use his Geass for a selfish reason?
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Old 2008-06-14, 14:16   Link #1158
Dann of Thursday
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The Live command on Suzaku. Sure, you could argue it was to save himself, but he really wanted Suzaku to stop thinking of his life as something that was not important. And what, he should be using his Geass to solve world hunger?

Like I said though, they are making him more likable. Some people are always going to dislike him though no matter what happens since they can't see anything but his flaws. It's not like he's the only character in this show who has flaws of character. No character in this show is good. Suzaku is very selfish for one, though there are plenty of people who will say the opposite.
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Old 2008-06-14, 14:17   Link #1159
Vallen Chaos Valiant
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Originally Posted by Orga777 View Post
Yeah, I have to agree again. Especially since that is probably the most sickening thing he has done in the series IMO... Except of course using the outcome of that to futher his selfish cause that is.

I just don't see how they can possibly make him more likable. He has done so many nasty things by this point that I just don't think it is possible. Can someone even name me ONE instance where he didn't use his Geass for a selfish reason?
LIVE!

Good enough?
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Old 2008-06-14, 14:18   Link #1160
Dann of Thursday
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Some will argue that it was mainly to save himself than Suzaku. I don't believe that was a big reason for it myself.
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