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Old 2008-08-04, 04:41   Link #1861
ZeroSama
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Originally Posted by Pathis87 View Post
true but what would you do if your one and only friend betrayed you not once ... but twice ? lelouch feels that can't trust anyone right now ... . Maybe that's why he will be cold against kallen when she escapes ... .
Oh well. kallen can always use her super 100-hit combo on lulu to knock some sense into him if talking fails.

Its always good to have a back-up plan. Like they say you'll get further with a kind word and a 2 by 4 than just a kind word alone.
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Old 2008-08-04, 04:43   Link #1862
bladeofdarkness
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Originally Posted by ZeroSama View Post
Oh well. kallen can always use her super 100-hit combo on lulu to knock some sense into him if talking fails.

Its always good to have a back-up plan. Like they say you'll get further with a kind word and a 2 by 4 than just a kind word alone.
"speak softly, and carry a two by four"

i like
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Old 2008-08-04, 04:50   Link #1863
ZeroSama
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Originally Posted by bladeofdarkness View Post
"speak softly, and carry a two by four"

i like
And its the truth. Something that Schenziel has obviously taken to heart with Freya.
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Old 2008-08-04, 04:59   Link #1864
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Originally Posted by ZeroSama View Post
Oh well. kallen can always use her super 100-hit combo on lulu to knock some sense into him if talking fails.

Its always good to have a back-up plan. Like they say you'll get further with a kind word and a 2 by 4 than just a kind word alone.
Using her combo on Lelouch? Do you want to see Lelouch die so early and so pointlessly?
Edit: It's "Speak softly and carry a big stick, you will go far" by Roosevelt. Big stick ideology
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Old 2008-08-04, 05:52   Link #1865
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Originally Posted by Blue_Mercy View Post
I know this will sound like a broken record, but this episode showed one huge reason why I dislike Suzaku's character and like Lelouch's character.

Lelouch was a man and took all the blame for anything and everything in order to protect his sister, while Suzaku tossed all the blame onto him, and I am so glad the friendship is now gone for good, or at least I hope.
If you think that then you obviously lost the meaning to their confrontation. Suzaku has everyright to blam Lelouch and just because Lelouch took the blame for everything doesn't make him any more of a man in the first place
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Old 2008-08-04, 09:22   Link #1866
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If you think that then you obviously lost the meaning to their confrontation. Suzaku has everyright to blam Lelouch and just because Lelouch took the blame for everything doesn't make him any more of a man in the first place
Nothing I can say about this except how wrong it is.
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Old 2008-08-04, 11:49   Link #1867
orangejuicetang
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Originally Posted by Blue_Mercy View Post
I know this will sound like a broken record, but this episode showed one huge reason why I dislike Suzaku's character and like Lelouch's character.

Lelouch was a man and took all the blame for anything and everything in order to protect his sister, while Suzaku tossed all the blame onto him, and I am so glad the friendship is now gone for good, or at least I hope.
Slow down here. What? First thing, I agree that Lelouch took all the blame on himself to protect his sister, but Suzuku tossing all the blame onto him? Are you saying that Lelouch was completely blameless in those incidents that Suzuku mentioned and that he was taking the blame of others? Suzuku asked him why he did the things he did, and Lelouch took the blame. There's a difference between "You cast Geass on Euphie, you cast Geass on me, I hate you" and "Why did you cast a Geass on Euphie, why did you cast geass on me." Plus, are you saying that Suzuku has no right at all for blaming Lelouch for causing some of the incidents that he accused him of? What Lelouch did here is very similar to what Suzuku did last episode, going to a person who has a very good reason to hate their guts and asking for forgiveness, knowing full well what is in store for them.
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Old 2008-08-04, 11:54   Link #1868
ZeroSama
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Originally Posted by orangejuicetang View Post
Slow down here. What? First thing, I agree that Lelouch took all the blame on himself to protect his sister, but Suzuku tossing all the blame onto him? Are you saying that Lelouch was completely blameless in those incidents that Suzuku mentioned and that he was taking the blame of others? Suzuku asked him why he did the things he did, and Lelouch took the blame. There's a difference between "You cast Geass on Euphie, you cast Geass on me, I hate you" and "Why did you cast a Geass on Euphie, why did you cast geass on me." Plus, are you saying that Suzuku has no right at all for blaming Lelouch for causing some of the incidents that he accused him of? What Lelouch did here is very similar to what Suzuku did last episode, going to a person who has a very good reason to hate their guts and asking for forgiveness, knowing full well what is in store for them.
Aye but the slight problem was in Suzlu&Lelouchs case they were best friends to begin with(and still were judging by Suzakus wishy-washyness and his decision to help him) and Kallen&Suzaku being no more than class mates.

Although yes i agree with you everything else was similar to last EP.
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Old 2008-08-04, 13:04   Link #1869
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Nothing I can say about this except how wrong it is.
Such a thing would only be stated by either an ideologue, moronicus or combination of the two.
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Old 2008-08-04, 13:55   Link #1870
zalem
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He might act cold to Kallen in the beginning, but that will probably change. He is still thinking of her despite his bitterness and lack of trust in people. In the extended preview he still talks of getting Kallen back.

As for the Suzaku and Lelouch scene. I think Suzaku could rightfully blame Lelouch for some of those incidents he mentioned. Lelouch had some responsibility (even if not always direct) for most of them. But Suzaku does have the tendency shift to blame Zero and not look to anything else. He doesn't recognize that Britannia is equally to blame for some things. Not in this particular scene, but other times. However, this episode he took a good step forward in understanding Lulu a bit better. Too bad the whole thing got ruined. Lelouch does definitely get points from me for recognizing his part in all these incidents and not making excuses. A lot of people in a similar situation would just be whining and giving excuses. He sucked it up and accepted the blame.
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Old 2008-08-04, 16:52   Link #1871
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Originally Posted by zalem View Post

As for the Suzaku and Lelouch scene. I think Suzaku could rightfully blame Lelouch for some of those incidents he mentioned. Lelouch had some responsibility (even if not always direct) for most of them. But Suzaku does have the tendency shift to blame Zero and not look to anything else. He doesn't recognize that Britannia is equally to blame for some things. Not in this particular scene, but other times. However, this episode he took a good step forward in understanding Lulu a bit better. Too bad the whole thing got ruined. Lelouch does definitely get points from me for recognizing his part in all these incidents and not making excuses. A lot of people in a similar situation would just be whining and giving excuses. He sucked it up and accepted the blame.
agreed 100%

Quote:
Originally Posted by Blue_Mercy View Post
I know this will sound like a broken record, but this episode showed one huge reason why I dislike Suzaku's character and like Lelouch's character.

Lelouch was a man and took all the blame for anything and everything in order to protect his sister, while Suzaku tossed all the blame onto him, and I am so glad the friendship is now gone for good, or at least I hope.
so uh what do you think about suzaku taking a beating from kallen? was he a man too?
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Old 2008-08-04, 16:54   Link #1872
Sports72Xtrm
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Originally Posted by zalem View Post
He might act cold to Kallen in the beginning, but that will probably change. He is still thinking of her despite his bitterness and lack of trust in people. In the extended preview he still talks of getting Kallen back.

As for the Suzaku and Lelouch scene. I think Suzaku could rightfully blame Lelouch for some of those incidents he mentioned. Lelouch had some responsibility (even if not always direct) for most of them. But Suzaku does have the tendency shift to blame Zero and not look to anything else. He doesn't recognize that Britannia is equally to blame for some things. Not in this particular scene, but other times. However, this episode he took a good step forward in understanding Lulu a bit better. Too bad the whole thing got ruined. Lelouch does definitely get points from me for recognizing his part in all these incidents and not making excuses. A lot of people in a similar situation would just be whining and giving excuses. He sucked it up and accepted the blame.
Care to elaborate how Britannia is equally to blame for Shirley's death, Euphemia's death, the student council hostage situation?
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Old 2008-08-04, 17:02   Link #1873
m1thril
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by creating the circumstances that resulted in the hostilities b/t japanese and brittanians (ie oppressing them) though not sure if this places an equal blame on them
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Old 2008-08-04, 17:04   Link #1874
Blue_Mercy
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Originally Posted by m1thril View Post
agreed 100%

so uh what do you think about suzaku taking a beating from kallen? was he a man too?
Yeah, I do give credit for taking that beating, and at least he realized Lelouch was lying.
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Old 2008-08-04, 17:40   Link #1875
Un1234l
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Originally Posted by Blue_Mercy View Post
I know this will sound like a broken record, but this episode showed one huge reason why I dislike Suzaku's character and like Lelouch's character.

Lelouch was a man and took all the blame for anything and everything in order to protect his sister, while Suzaku tossed all the blame onto him, and I am so glad the friendship is now gone for good, or at least I hope.
Quote:
Originally Posted by True Warrior View Post
If you think that then you obviously lost the meaning to their confrontation. Suzaku has everyright to blam Lelouch and just because Lelouch took the blame for everything doesn't make him any more of a man in the first place
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blue_Mercy View Post
Nothing I can say about this except how wrong it is.
Quote:
...while Suzaku tossed all the blame onto him...
If you take into consideration that Suzaku doesn't have a 3rd person perspective of all the drama taking place, it would become very understandable that he would hate Lelouch, for he has no knowledge of the complications behind the situations. Is it understandable that Suzaku detests Lelouch because of his... lack of knowledge of the events that had happened? Perfectly understandable. But to us, who knows everything that has happened, it will become easy for us to hate Suzaku because of how "He hates Lelouch for 'killing Euphemia and Shirley', but Lelouch is innocent! It was all just an accident. Suzaku only hates him because he didn't know what happened! What an idiot!"

In his eyes:
Lelouch has started a high-mortality rebellion for no reason.
Lelouch's actions only bring about more chaos and bloodshed.
Lelouch defamed Euphemia and killed her.
Lelouch killed Shirley.

Suzaku's conclusion: Lelouch caused many unnecessary deaths when they could have been avoided. Many innocent lives were lost, and the truth will never be revealed.

"Lelouch is playing around with people like pawns; he doesn't care how many lives will be lost as long as he reaches his objective. He took away two very dear friends of mine...! WHY?!"

Wouldn't it be normal to hate someone for this? We, of course, know everything that has happened "behind the curtains".

---------------

Quote:
Lelouch was a man and took all the blame for anything and everything in order to protect his sister, while Suzaku tossed all the blame onto him...
Lelouch is a man because he took the blame for everything?

...Well, I must admit what Lelouch did was very manly - er, courageous, (LINE THRU WHERE ART THOU?!) it doesn't mean that Lelouch is more courageous because he took all the blame. Look what follows. Lelouch seems rather pathetic despite that; ready to accept his consequences in a surrendering manner. Similar to Suzaku.
It really makes you feel pity. WHY?

"Oh, how the mighty have fallen!"

Suzuka blaming Lelouch for everything might not be what we call manly, but that doesn't mean Suzaku isn't one.



Lelouch =

Noble > Civilian > Terrorist > (Anti-)Hero > Terrorist > Hero > (Currently unknown; possibly unknowing bad guy all along?)
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Old 2008-08-04, 17:46   Link #1876
zalem
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Originally Posted by Sports72Xtrm View Post
Care to elaborate how Britannia is equally to blame for Shirley's death, Euphemia's death, the student council hostage situation?
I said Suzaku did this other times in the past before this episode. I never mentioned those specific incidents. Britannia has done things to instigate violence (for example the Shinjuku ghetto and Saitama ghetto incidents) and yet he never places the blame on them. It's usually always someone else who is at fault (Zero/the so-called terrorists). I mean can you honestly say Britannia is faultless in all this? Zero is to blame for a lot of this mess, but so is the tyrannical Britannia.

As for Shirley, Lulu wasn't directly responsible for that one. But do remember who created a monster like Rolo to begin with. Still, Lelouch didn't go and place the blame on Rolo. He took it on himself. He didn't want to make excuses. But Suzaku doesn't know the truth so I don't blame him for shifting all of the blame on Lulu for this one. He thinks Lulu killed her himself.

Though Zero wasn't responsible for the student council hostage situation. That was the JLF, Zero didn't approve of their actions. If you notice Suzaku wasn't blaming him for that incident. Zero saved the student council afterall. He was asking what his reasons were for being involved in that one. Same thing goes for Lulu's saving Suzaku. He was asking why he saved him, not blaming him for being in the situation to begin with.
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Old 2008-08-04, 19:43   Link #1877
aznegglover
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Originally Posted by zalem View Post
I said Suzaku did this other times in the past before this episode. I never mentioned those specific incidents. Britannia has done things to instigate violence (for example the Shinjuku ghetto and Saitama ghetto incidents) and yet he never places the blame on them. It's usually always someone else who is at fault (Zero/the so-called terrorists). I mean can you honestly say Britannia is faultless in all this? Zero is to blame for a lot of this mess, but so is the tyrannical Britannia.

As for Shirley, Lulu wasn't directly responsible for that one. But do remember who created a monster like Rolo to begin with. Still, Lelouch didn't go and place the blame on Rolo. He took it on himself. He didn't want to make excuses. But Suzaku doesn't know the truth so I don't blame him for shifting all of the blame on Lulu for this one. He thinks Lulu killed her himself.

Though Zero wasn't responsible for the student council hostage situation. That was the JLF, Zero didn't approve of their actions. If you notice Suzaku wasn't blaming him for that incident. Zero saved the student council afterall. He was asking what his reasons were for being involved in that one. Same thing goes for Lulu's saving Suzaku. He was asking why he saved him, not blaming him for being in the situation to begin with.
I think Suzaku needs a brain transplant if he really thinks that Lelouch would ever kill Shirley on purpose or w/e
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Old 2008-08-04, 19:44   Link #1878
Rising Dragon
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Originally Posted by aznegglover View Post
I think Suzaku needs a brain transplant if he really thinks that Lelouch would ever kill Shirley on purpose or w/e
Please, take into account that Suzaku isn't privy to all of the facts--he thinks what Lelouch did to Euphy was done deliberately, why wouldn't he think the same about Shirley?
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Old 2008-08-04, 21:25   Link #1879
Neki Ecko
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Please, take into account that Suzaku isn't privy to all of the facts--he thinks what Lelouch did to Euphy was done deliberately, why wouldn't he think the same about Shirley?
Because he just think that Zero/Lulu did it because he doesnt want to think about it or get the facts first before making judgement. If he think about it and get the facts about those incidents then Suzaku would been in a different mindset but he was too narrow-sided for that.

At the end, Lulu place all the blame on himself and begged Suzaku to help him to protect his sister but Suzaku was too narrow-minded on that and just pass everything that went wrong on Lulu. I really like Lulu for what he did, because as a real man or a great leader, when somebody under you did something wrong or you did something that wasnt right, you take responsibility for that actions and corrected those actions, so it wont happen again. T
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Old 2008-08-04, 21:34   Link #1880
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Lelouch manned up to his mistakes, didn't see that coming...lol...On the other hand, I hate Suzaku in that episode. Sure, he saw Lelouch wasnt telling the whole truth, yet when Suzaku noticed that Schniezel set him up, he didn't even try to free Lelouch and win back his trust, nor when Lelouch was escaping, did he stop the men from firing at the KMF.
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