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Old 2008-08-07, 01:37   Link #1901
honeypie_0106
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I'd expect a good story will need a justifiable ending.
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Old 2008-08-07, 14:58   Link #1902
Orga777
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Originally Posted by Blue_Mercy View Post
Lelouch was a man and took all the blame for anything and everything in order to protect his sister, while Suzaku tossed all the blame onto him, and I am so glad the friendship is now gone for good, or at least I hope.
Wait... WHAT? Granted, Lelouch (finally) took the blame for HIS actions, but that was mostly because he needed Suzaku's help (because of his own actions.) Lelouch ALWAYS blames something else on what happened because of HIS actions. This was the first time ever that he swallowed his damn pride in the entire series and even then it was because he needed Suzaku's help and felt he had no other choice. Also, Suzaku laid the blame on Lelouch because he has the right to. Who else can he blame for Euphemia's fate? No one else was at fault but Lelouch. As for Shirley, Lelouch was still, technically, at fault for that tragedy as well (using Rolo to his advantage didn't work out to well did it?)

Lelouch isn't a man taking blame, he is a child that needed to take the blame so he isn't punished anymore. Unless you are confusing Suzaku (who only blames himself for his actions and no one else) with Lelouch (who doesn't) then you are just wrong.
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Old 2008-08-07, 15:14   Link #1903
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As for Shirley, Lelouch was still, technically, at fault for that tragedy as well (using Rolo to his advantage didn't work out to well did it?)
Ok, how is zero supposed to know where and what and who rollo will meet 24/7. Isnt this like how suzaku doesnt know he being followed? I am sorry, zero is not god to predict that the cop suzaku chooses to guard shirley is so pathetic or that girl escapes them by her own to get into the mess while manage to get a gun for the lol. euphy is no doubt zero fault, but shirley is entire different story. And you forget that suzaku also blames the students coucil on zero. Well, guess who the one does nothing and still able to look straight into their eyes even though he knows they have been brainwashed. And like he is not betray nunally (if you count her as one of student coucil) for useing her to capture her brother. I guess nunnally will feel very good about it, heh?
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Old 2008-08-07, 15:19   Link #1904
Orga777
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Originally Posted by UFO888 View Post
Ok, how is zero supposed to know where and what and who rollo will meet 24/7.
Except Lelouch wanted to use Rolo, an unstable killing machine, to his advantage. It was his own fault for keeping such a dangerous and unstable person around. He should have known that it would have came back to haunt him.

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but shirley is entire different story.
No it isn't.

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And you forget that suzaku also blames the students coucil on zero. Well, guess who the one does nothing and still able to look straight into their eyes even though he knows they have been brainwashed. And like he is not betray nunally (if you count her as one of student coucil) for useing her to capture her brother. I guess nunnally will feel very good about it, heh?
Oh it was Lelouch's fault that the Student Council was mindwiped. His actions were the cause of that. No one elses actions. As for Suzaku using Nunnally, I think he hates himself for it. He does, after all, want to protect Nunnally, and if Zero is around, that makes things harder due to the Emperor's orders.
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Old 2008-08-07, 15:30   Link #1905
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Originally Posted by Orga777 View Post
Except Lelouch wanted to use Rolo, an unstable killing machine, to his advantage. It was his own fault for keeping such a dangerous and unstable person around. He should have known that it would have came back to haunt him.
fine tell me then how he is going to get rid of him ? and how he supposed to know it would have come back and haunt him? by your logic, every is blame for letting nina alive to complete her bomb in the name of euphy. And we are going to see how it works soon, and geuss who will fired it?



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No it isn't.
It is because zero does not send rollo to stay near shirley or protect her. If he does, then that his fault.



Quote:
Oh it was Lelouch's fault that the Student Council was mindwiped. His actions were the cause of that. No one elses actions. As for Suzaku using Nunnally, I think he hates himself for it. He does, after all, want to protect Nunnally, and if Zero is around, that makes things harder due to the Emperor's orders.
Fine by your logic, the state japanese in right now is thanked to suzaku action of killing his dad.I so want to say that but no, zero does not brainwashed his student coucils, it is the emperor decision and suzaku still does nothing to help his friends, what kind of friend is that? Ok, he hates himself and? he still does it and it is not about his feeling, it is about nunnally feeling.
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Old 2008-08-07, 15:37   Link #1906
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Originally Posted by UFO888 View Post
fine tell me then how he is going to get rid of him ? and how he supposed to know it would have come back and haunt him? by your logic, every is blame for letting nina alive to complete her bomb in the name of euphy. And we are going to see how it works soon, and geuss who will fired it?
How to get rid of him? That is actually pretty easy. NOT throw yourself in front of a missile to 'save' him. You know, like he did during his BK Rescue attempt.

And really, Lelouch who thinks three steps ahead wouldn't realize that someone that is always saying "Can I kill him now?" wouldn't come back to haunt him? Seriously?

As for Nina, nobody expected her to go off the deep end. Rolo was already off the deep end. Big difference.
Quote:
It is because zero does not send rollo to stay near shirley or protect her. If he does, then that his fault.

It is his fault for keeping someone as dangerous as Rolo around. Lelouch already knew that Rolo doesn't care about killing after all.

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Fine by your logic, the state japanese in right now is thanked to suzaku action of killing his dad.
Well... yeah, that is true. But guess what? Suzaku takes responsibility for that issue. So I don't see why you would even bring it up.

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I so want to say that but no, zero does not brainwashed his student coucils, it is the emperor decision and suzaku still does nothing to help his friends, what kind of friend is that? Ok, he hates himself and? he still does it and it is not about his feeling, it is about nunnally feeling.
It was teh emperor's decision, and Suzaku knows, but they had no CHOICE really. Especially after what LELOUCH did. It was because of him that they did that. Lelouch was the cause, Charles acted because of that cause. See how things work?

And don't give me "Nunnally's feelings." If she knew all the details about what lelouch has done, how do you think she would feel from THAT? She already told him that he was wrong after all.
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Old 2008-08-07, 15:45   Link #1907
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Originally Posted by Orga777 View Post
It is his fault for keeping someone as dangerous as Rolo around. Lelouch already knew that Rolo doesn't care about killing after all.
Remember, Rolo spent time with the Student Council (Lelouch, Shirley, Milly, Rivalz, and Nina) and thus, Lelouch likely thought he and Shirley were friends, like everyone else in the Studen Council. How could he have known that Rolo would kill one of them? Shirley's death wasn't Lelouch's fault, or Suzaku's fault. It was Rolo's, plain and simple.
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Old 2008-08-07, 15:48   Link #1908
Orga777
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Originally Posted by Rising Dragon View Post
Remember, Rolo spent time with the Student Council (Lelouch, Shirley, Milly, Rivalz, and Nina) and thus, Lelouch likely thought he and Shirley were friends, like everyone else in the Studen Council. How could he have known that Rolo would kill one of them? Shirley's death wasn't Lelouch's fault, or Suzaku's fault. It was Rolo's, plain and simple.
Um, I don't see how. His only reason for being there in the first place was to watch over Lelouch in case he gets his memories back. That was all. Someone that goes around saying "can I kill him now?" should NOT be around your group at all.

I agree that it is mostly Rolo's fault, but Lelouch is still at fault for keeping him around in the first place instead of having him killed. It came back and bite him.
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Old 2008-08-07, 15:50   Link #1909
Rising Dragon
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Originally Posted by Orga777 View Post
Um, I don't see how. His only reason for being there in the first place was to watch over Lelouch in case he gets his memories back. That was all. Someone that goes around saying "can I kill him now?" should NOT be around your group at all.

I agree that it is mostly Rolo's fault, but Lelouch is still at fault for keeping him around in the first place instead of having him killed. It came back and bite him.
Where exactly has Rolo been saying "Can I kill him now?"

I haven't heard him say anything of the like.
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Old 2008-08-07, 15:51   Link #1910
bladeofdarkness
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ep 12
when villeta said they should just have sherly take lulu's hat rolo said she's also a good option
lulu had no reason to think rolo would do her harm for no reason
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Old 2008-08-07, 15:52   Link #1911
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Originally Posted by Orga777 View Post
Um, I don't see how. His only reason for being there in the first place was to watch over Lelouch in case he gets his memories back. That was all. Someone that goes around saying "can I kill him now?" should NOT be around your group at all.

I agree that it is mostly Rolo's fault, but Lelouch is still at fault for keeping him around in the first place instead of having him killed. It came back and bite him.
But you also have to remember that he has saved Lelouch from time to time (episode 6) and covered for him, so killing him wouldn't be the correct response and I mean since you put it like that it should really go back to Jeremiah for canceling Shirley's geass in the first place.
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Old 2008-08-07, 15:54   Link #1912
Orga777
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But you also have to remember that he has saved Lelouch from time to time (episode 6) and covered for him, so killing him wouldn't be the correct response and I mean since you put it like that it should really go back to Jeremiah for canceling Shirley's geass in the first place.
Well, you have a point there...<.<' Especially the last point.
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Old 2008-08-07, 15:54   Link #1913
Rising Dragon
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But you also have to remember that he has saved Lelouch from time to time (episode 6) and covered for him, so killing him wouldn't be the correct response and I mean since you put it like that it should really go back to Jeremiah for canceling Shirley's geass in the first place.
But it goes even farther, so we should blame V.V. for giving him Geass in the first place. Both Rolo and Jeremiah, that is.
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Old 2008-08-07, 15:59   Link #1914
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But it goes even farther, so we should blame V.V. for giving him Geass in the first place. Both Rolo and Jeremiah, that is.
Okay, enough we get it The point is as much as it pains me I can't blame Lelouch for Shirley's death due to the fact that he couldn't respond quick enough and pretty much didn't know about Shirley's whereabouts at that given moment, sure you can say he shouldn't have geass her to begin with but still that doesn't necessarily put him at fault since she acted on her own
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Old 2008-08-07, 16:03   Link #1915
Orga777
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I kinda get your reasonings guys, but it was still a major miscalculation on Lelouch's part to keep Rolo around and not expect for something bad to happen. What part of emotionless, murdering assassin that kills without batting an eye and is mentally unstable sounds like a good guy to keep around just to "use like a rag?"
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Old 2008-08-07, 16:04   Link #1916
morbosfist
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Everything carries a risk, some bigger than others. Rolo was more or less under control. Lelouch certainly couldn't have predicted the chain of events that got Shirley killed.
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Old 2008-08-07, 16:06   Link #1917
Orga777
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Everything carries a risk, some bigger than others. Rolo was more or less under control. Lelouch certainly couldn't have predicted the chain of events that got Shirley killed.
It doesn't even have to be Shirley though. I find it silly that Lelouch didn't think that someone as emotionless about killing like Rolo WOULDN'T do something like that eventually. That makes no sense at all to me.
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Old 2008-08-07, 16:06   Link #1918
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Lelouch didn't sincerely feel at fault for anything he said was his fault to Suzaku. He was taking the easy, child's way out and simply telling Suzaku what he thought he wanted to hear. We already know Lelouch blames Geass, not himself, for Euphy's death, and we also know he blames Rolo (and Geass) specifically for Shirley's death, yet he made up reasons HE did those things "intentionally" because it was easer than actually facing whatever repercussions telling the truth might get him. Suzaku was able to see through it, though, and pitied/understood him enough to let Lelouch do his lying and hold up the lie of the ruthless Zero to the end.

As for Lelouch being at fault for Shirley, yes it was his fault indirectly, because his arrogance made him decide to try and control the enemy assassin rather than just eliminate him like one normally does to an enemy. The fact of the matter is Lelouch's actions as Zero caused Shirley's death, even if others were responsible as well. And this is what Suzaku is always angry about: Lelouch carries on his Zero role regardless of how many unrelated people get hurt in the collateral damage, both from explosions and otherwise. I personally wouldn't lose that much sleep over Shirley's death in Lelouch's position because of how indirect the fault is and how pretty much unforeseeable it was, but since Lelouch was in love with Shirley, well... there you go.
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Old 2008-08-07, 16:08   Link #1919
morbosfist
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Originally Posted by Orga777 View Post
It doesn't even have to be Shirley though. I find it silly that Lelouch didn't think that someone as emotionless about killing like Rolo WOULDN'T do something like that eventually. That makes no sense at all to me.
No doubt he knew the risks involved, but it was an acceptable risk for someone with such a hax Geass ability. Lelouch did his best to keep Rolo in check, but the risk happened.

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As for Lelouch being at fault for Shirley, yes it was his fault indirectly, because his arrogance made him decide to try and control the enemy assassin rather than just eliminate him like one normally does to an enemy. The fact of the matter is Lelouch's actions as Zero caused Shirley's death, even if others were responsible as well. And this is what Suzaku is always angry about: Lelouch carries on his Zero role regardless of how many unrelated people get hurt in the collateral damage, both from explosions and otherwise.
The blame goes to more than just Lelouch. Shirley was the one who got the bright idea to run into a veritable war zone in the first place, Jeremiah restored her memories, Suzaku just left her to the cops after that obviously strange conversation so he might catch Zero: Lelouch is not the only one at fault here. Everyone played their part to get her killed.
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Old 2008-08-07, 16:11   Link #1920
Orga777
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Originally Posted by morbosfist View Post
No doubt he knew the risks involved, but it was an acceptable risk for someone with such a hax Geass ability. Lelouch did his best to keep Rolo in check, but the risk happened.
Shouldn't Lelouch know that if the risk is too big, not to take the chance? He should of had him killed. Some things are just too dangerous to keep around after all.
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