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Old 2010-08-22, 07:46   Link #4541
Cola91
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Just wanted to say that GeRtrude is also an Italian name even if GeLtrude is the one which is still (rarely) used.

I can say so because it is the name of a character in a very famous Italian novel ("The Betrothed" "I Promessi Sposi")

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Bet...e_Nun_of_Monza

Incidentally Gertrude is also a nun in the novel even if I don't believe it is a direct reference.

Also the existence of a Senate and the references to the catholic church in Umineko makes me think that an Italian or Roman interpretation of the names is to be considered more appropriate in most cases.
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Old 2010-08-22, 08:20   Link #4542
Servant-Kanon
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cola91 View Post
Just wanted to say that GeRtrude is also an Italian name even if GeLtrude is the one which is still (rarely) used.

I can say so because it is the name of a character in a very famous Italian novel ("The Betrothed" "I Promessi Sposi")

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Bet...e_Nun_of_Monza

Incidentally Gertrude is also a nun in the novel even if I don't believe it is a direct reference.

Also the existence of a Senate and the references to the catholic church in Umineko makes me think that an Italian or Roman interpretation of the names is to be considered more appropriate in most cases.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gertrude_%28given_name%29

Gertrude is a germanic name.
The Name may be used inside an Italian Novel, but that doesn't say anything about it's roots...
As I already said

"Gertrud ist ein Name aus dem germanischen Sprachraum. Der erste Teil bezieht sich auf: ger ‚Speer, Wurfspieß‘. Der zweite Teil kommt entweder von -drud- ‚Zauberin, Zauber, Walküre‘, also ‚magische, überirdische Kraft‘, oder -trud, -trut ‚(ver)traut, lieb‘."

Translation :
Gertrud is a name from the germanic language area. the first part refers to: ger, spear [of the Germanic warriors during the Migration Period and the Early Middle Ages]. The second part wether refers to -drud-, magician, spell, walkyr, as well magic power, or -trud-, trut-, trusted, nice.

Quote:
Originally Posted by m0h View Post
Well, i think that debate on the name we're having now doesn't imply we want the translation changed. It's for the simple pleasure of discussion.

As for "Eiserne Jungfrau" i wander if we can trace a parallel with the direct object the name suggests:


And the use of Cornelia and Gertrude on "constrains" of witches. In the game they both seems to serve as seals to corner witches, using Knox as a final blow to kill'em fast.
For the origin of the Name, yes I thought the same.
Cornelia and Gertrude are the Iron Cage and Knox would be the Nails to pierce and kill the Victim.
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Last edited by Servant-Kanon; 2010-08-22 at 08:31.
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Old 2010-08-22, 08:53   Link #4543
Digdri
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Originally Posted by Servant-Kanon View Post
Oh someone else from Good ol' Germany it seems
The only name I know where it's necessary to ask wether it is written with C or K is Christine which's typical German form is Kristin.
Sorry to disappoint you but thats also very true for Markus / Marcus (and names of similar changes like George/Jörg, Jacob/Jakob, Lucas/Lukas etc.). Believe me I really get that question a lot. <_<

I know technically that isn't even a "German" name (and some of the examples likewise) as it's once again in use since ancient Rome (mostly likely from Mars, god of war, like sooo many other names) but it definitively a really wide spread name in Germany nowadays (I know at least 4 friends of my age with either of the versions) and I think its safe to say nobody from here would consider it foreign sounding.

On the other side which names would really qualify as typically German name nowadays?
If its not some name like Wolfgang, Wilhelm, Heinrich, Hildebrand which contain really easily identifiable references to real German word it gets subjective really fast. After all most of THOSE name are out-dated and most kids aren't given them anymore.

Add all this multi-cultural influences on present Germany (and many historical influences from different nation on what is Germany today), the idea of "cool" foreign languages mixing with your own AND most importantly how you may even associated with fascistic ideology for pushing this "truly German" stuff to hard (and WW2 as a the worst reminder what grotesque implications may result) and you get yourself a really messed up topic to discuss.

Well that got a little bit out of hand but it think it clearly shows how Germany doesn't have such ties to strict naming conventions to justify thumbing on changes for more "accurate" names in the story.
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Old 2010-08-22, 09:25   Link #4544
Servant-Kanon
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Originally Posted by Digdri View Post
Sorry to disappoint you but thats also very true for Markus / Marcus (and names of similar changes like George/Jörg, Jacob/Jakob, Lucas/Lukas etc.). Believe me I really get that question a lot. <_<

I know technically that isn't even a "German" name (and some of the examples likewise) as it's once again in use since ancient Rome (mostly likely from Mars, god of war, like sooo many other names) but it definitively a really wide spread name in Germany nowadays (I know at least 4 friends of my age with either of the versions) and I think its safe to say nobody from here would consider it foreign sounding.
GWAH!
I forgot about those names x_X

George/Jörg aren't really relatet are they ?
Isn't the German form of George, Georg ?
Well that's what I thought at least.

Quote:
On the other side which names would really qualify as typically German name nowadays?
If its not some name like Wolfgang, Wilhelm, Heinrich, Hildebrand which contain really easily identifiable references to real German word it gets subjective really fast. After all most of THOSE name are out-dated and most kids aren't given them anymore.
Or something like Brunhilde and such...
But as I said Gertrud(e) has it's roots in German Words.
So it's very likely that her name IS german.
And if someone I knew had such a name I couldn't stop laughing.

Quote:
Add all this multi-cultural influences on present Germany (and many historical influences from different nation on what is Germany today), the idea of "cool" foreign languages mixing with your own AND most importantly how you may even associated with fascistic ideology for pushing this "truly German" stuff to hard (and WW2 as a the worst reminder what grotesque implications may result) and you get yourself a really messed up topic to discuss.
Well the second World-War certainly is the Worst reminder ever.
I know so many people who call me Nazi for no reason except being german.
It's sad to see people who really think we would be like this even today.
Even thought Germany evolved so much...

Quote:
Well that got a little bit out of hand but it think it clearly shows how Germany doesn't have such ties to strict naming conventions to justify thumbing on changes for more "accurate" names in the story.
But that's today.
At the time my Grandparents were born, names Like Gertrud were used quite often.
Heck even my school has this name.
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Old 2010-08-22, 12:40   Link #4545
Auria
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Cornelia sounds more german to me than Kornelia.. well, at least i'd find it VERY WEIRD to meet up with a Kornelia <-- written as this... looks.. strange.. feels... strange.. xD But Cornelia is not that common, no. But it's hard to tell what's german and what not in times like this, I know more people with a foreign name than with a typical german one, they got very very rare after WWII I suppose. Heck, I am half-german and I have a greek name even though my other half is not greek lol

Well yes, Georg is the german version of George, I'm not sure about Jörg but if it's a german version of Georg it's heavily influenced by the northern dialects (or even Denmark).
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Old 2010-08-22, 18:05   Link #4546
CainSonozaki
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I have a question. when all three intercept and stop erika from delivering a finishing blow against MARIA in episode 6, Erika calls them "scraps of paper" im just wondering what she means
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Old 2010-08-22, 18:49   Link #4547
Leafsnail
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Spoiler for Ep6:
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Old 2010-08-22, 19:14   Link #4548
Judoh
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Spoiler for ep 6:


I'm actually confused about what Erika means by scraps of paper too... Maybe the Eiserne Jungfrau have some connection to the message bottles?

Last edited by Judoh; 2010-08-22 at 19:24.
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Old 2010-08-22, 20:30   Link #4549
Renall
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If they're a literal embodiment of the Knox rules they would be words on paper. They may not refer to a specific vessel, but to a general one; after all, the Knox rules are somewhat transcendent of the Umineko mythos proper.
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Old 2010-08-22, 20:30   Link #4550
Jan-Poo
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their purpose has always been protecting the escape routes. they are probably the personification of the seals.
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Old 2010-08-22, 20:32   Link #4551
Renall
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Originally Posted by Jan-Poo View Post
their purpose has always been protecting the escape routes. they are probably the personification of the seals.
Shouldn't they be scraps of tape then? Erika wouldn't make a mistake like that!

Oh God, would she not make that kind of mistake. I've seen pictures.
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Old 2010-08-22, 20:34   Link #4552
Jan-Poo
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Gertrude the first time protected a door that was sealed with a receipt, not a tape.

I guess "paper" was a generic word to mean any kind of seal. Don't forget that in japanese culture when one think about a "seal" the first image that comes to mind is probably the one of those scrap of paper with some arcane symbol in them used in shinto rituals
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Old 2010-08-23, 00:27   Link #4553
m0h
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jan-Poo View Post
Gertrude the first time protected a door that was sealed with a receipt, not a tape.

I guess "paper" was a generic word to mean any kind of seal. Don't forget that in japanese culture when one think about a "seal" the first image that comes to mind is probably the one of those scrap of paper with some arcane symbol in them used in shinto rituals
Indeed. Japan's Fuuin are most likely piece of paper with kanji on it.
Erika's way to perform seals is similar: un piece written and some "esoteric collation"
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Old 2010-08-23, 15:33   Link #4554
nevill
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Hello, everyone.

I wonder if this is the right place to ask something like this... but does someone by any chance know a hookscript that works with the current version of onscripter-en? I need to quote from the game and I can't find an efficient way to do so. Besides, it would help those whose English is less than perfect, but still better than their Japanese.
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Old 2010-08-23, 16:11   Link #4555
Franzen
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I'll add another to the pile of questions in here.

Is episode 7 relatively as long as a typical episode of Umineko?

I remember with Higurashi, the fourth game was quite short compared to the rest.
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Old 2010-08-23, 16:19   Link #4556
Orophin
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Franzen View Post
I'll add another to the pile of questions in here.

Is episode 7 relatively as long as a typical episode of Umineko?

I remember with Higurashi, the fourth game was quite short compared to the rest.
From what I've heard, Episode 7 is shorter than Episode 5 and 6 but longer than Episode 3.
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Old 2010-08-23, 17:47   Link #4557
Franzen
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Strangely enough I always found episode 3 to be the second longest for myself to play.

It would be nice if there was an official count on the text for each game to figure out if I'm having delusions or what .
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Old 2010-08-23, 21:33   Link #4558
Cola91
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Just wanted to point out one thing

Spoiler for EP7 Name:
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Old 2010-08-23, 23:47   Link #4559
Arachanox
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In reference to the above,

Spoiler for EP7:
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Old 2010-08-24, 00:28   Link #4560
Renall
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Coming soon to Episode 8:
Spoiler for Not Really, But...:
There's also the old thing from ep6:
Spoiler for ep6:
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I submit that a murder was committed in 1996.
This murder was a "copycat" crime inspired by our tales of 1986.
This story is a redacted confession.

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Battler Solves The Logic Error
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