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Old 2010-06-12, 15:50   Link #2041
aya_kari
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sol Falling View Post
lol, I'll say it frankly: the majority if Rolo's appeal/popularity comes from the fact that he is psycho-moe shota Yaoi-bait.
Sometimes I feel it is the people who dislike Rolo that actually give those characteristics of him more importance, rather than his fans... I mean, there are plenty of other shotas and yaoi-baits out there, those aspects of him aren't really all that impressive, nor what make him special. I mean I'm sure Kallen sells plenty of doujins thanks to her sexy character design, yet I would be very disappointed to hear that Kallen's fans appreciate her just for her boobs. There is also more to Rolo's character, you know.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sol Falling View Post
Disliking Rolo isn't about blaming him despite his background, it's about a repulsion to a destructive personality that never improves over the course of the series. When Rolo met Lelouch, he went from an emotionless killing machine to a killing machine that only cared about sustaining it's own delusion of happiness (the 'lie' that Lelouch loved him). By Rolo's death scene, this is still true: Rolo still wouldn't give a shit about Nunally or Shirley, all he cares about is insisting that Lelouch really loved him after all. So, hypothetically speaking, let's imagine what would have happened if Rolo didn't die in that scene, and Shirley/Nunally were still around: what would Rolo do to them? Hell, he might hold off on killing them on sight a second time, but he'd still knife them the moment Lelouch paid too much attention to them . Lessons learned/character development for Rolo: zero.
Unless I somehow missed it, I think you did not reply to a respond I gave you a long time ago (well, it's actually just 2 or 3 pages before this one), so I'm just going to self-plagiarize some of my previous posts... huge TL;DR follows:

"Rolo demonstrates an incredible amount of strength just by choosing to side with Lelouch after Turn 4. You might think that of course, he's doing it for his own good, but in real life, when presented with two options, one riskier than the other but which also offers the possibility of a better result, people will still usually take the easiest and most comfortable choice. By betraying the Cult and putting his faith in trusting Lelouch's words, he knows he is from then on both in danger of being discovered and finished by VV (as he states during Turn 8) AND of being abandoned by Lelouch, but he still prefers to take the risk rather than go on with a lifestyle that would also have meant many more murder victims, actually. It would have been a much less insecure option to just continue doing missions and allow others to decide his fate, but he is able to realize (even though nobody has taught him to use his own mind to judge what's going on around him. Or now that I think about it, perhaps Lelouch did during their year together; after all, during Turn 1 Lelouch mentions how he doesn't want to have to follow somebody else's orders, and describes that the ones on top take all decisions in an ironic manner) that he has the right to be in control of his own life, and that he is going to fight as much as is needed to finally gain the freedom and happiness any human deserves.

Indeed, in this process, he doesn't take Shirley's or Nunnally's well-being into consideration, but how do you expect him to take others into consideration when nobody's ever taken him into consideration before and he has always been exploited and had his rights as a human negated (VV blatantly calls him "defective merchandise")? Nobody is willing to help or even understand Rolo on his quest for freedom and happiness (and Lelouch clearly willingly ignores Rolo's need for affection [I say willingly because he must have been aware of it to come up with a plan that involved simply promising him a future and which he took for granted would result in Rolo immediately switching sides]), so how could he trust or even value others when from his experience, he's arrived to the conclusion that they will try to prevent him from acquiring happiness? It is impressive enough that he is capable of valuing that Lelouch treated him kindly and that he's usually a pretty calm guy; he could have turned into a crazy person who just destroyed everything around him out of desperation, and he doesn't do that.

The effort he puts to keep clinging to hope despite the isolation and frustration that he must also endure is more than enough of a meaningful quality, for me, at least. As somebody who believes conformity is one of the most dangerous threats to society (like Ionesco, I am sure many unfortunate historical events caused by humans do not take place because the majority will profit from them, but rather because the majority do not care about complaining about them), I greatly admire the courage and will power of individuals who do fight against an unfair treatment, and pursue their self-fulfillment. I think valuing oneself is the first step into learning to fight for the rights of others too, and Rolo is a character who could tell, on his own, that he had the right to give his own life a meaning and strive for happiness, and who never gave up on this conviction. He isn't just a pitiable character, he's also a very, very strong boy . Just look at his marks, "above average", and he's never been to school before! He's the type to give his all in trying to do things the best way possible, and even though he made mistakes that brought a lot of pain to other people, I would not say he truly held bad intentions or that his aspirations were incorrect."

Speaking of his energy to try his best, there was also some magazine out there which stated he worked very hard at home doing the cleaning. Lol well... since he's a dust-cloth it should not be so hard... xD

More auto-quoting, sorry, it's just too long to paraphrase...:
"That's the thing, that despite having been forced to kill countless times since he was 6 years old, something which would have probably been enough for anyone to turn completely unemotional and hopeless about the meaning of being alive, he still shows that his true nature is that of an extremely sensitive boy who is moved by each small gesture of kindness that he receives. He isn't just possessive of Lelouch ala Tamama, he feels incredibly grateful to him and is always worried about doing his best to prove himself worthy of his affection; he constantly offered him his support after Lelouch promised he would still consider Rolo his brother, he doesn't just take it for granted that he deserves to own Lelouch. But that's why he's likewise really scared of losing him, especially since Lelouch was disrespectful enough to show too many signs that he actually only cared about Nunnally right in front of Rolo. [<- I talked about these here... Whoa, I'm truly lazy to write today]

Of course it was wrong for Rolo to kill Shirley, but you can't just minimize the reasons behind this act and regard his character as a mere ruthless paranoid murderer: he spends the whole series desperately struggling to find his right place and longing for that love he was given for an ephemeral single year which he can't just forget and abandon so easily. The way he talks about Lelouch proving himself so capable of contemplating his own feelings is heart-breaking for some of us (with lines such as "did I long for a smile this much?", "I didn't want to lose... you, the first family I had ever had", "thank you, brother, for giving me, who was empty, the light", "my brother is the kindest in the world", "I thought that as long as the two of us would stay together forever that would mean the eternal happiness", and so on, and every single word from the lyrics of Boku wa, tori ni naru. Sure this is all really cheesy, but for someone who's been raised as an assassin to manage to sound cheesy, you really feel the state of melancholy he must be going through, and all the pain he's holding back), and that in spite of having always being ordered what to do he is able to choose the least comfortable path of starting to make his own decisions shows that he had a really strong desire to break free from that identity as a tool that others had forced onto him."

I will be happy if I manage to make somebody acknowledge Rolo's personality as something more than mere fujoshi material. His determined monologue before he dies is proof enough to show that his character represents an exceptional strength to pursue the minimum happiness any individual deserves and that he's not in the show just to create "kyaaahgay!!" reactions. Once again, copying from my own blog: "I was thinking that his final act is a perfect unification of his internal conflict (his desire to break free clashing with a tool-complex, which makes him unable to take the idea that he needs to be useful in order to be appreciated out of his mind) because on the one hand he takes his own decision and disobeys Lelouch, even giving preference to his own speech (=feelings) over whatever Lelouch might have been asking for at the time; and yet, on the other hand, that choice which he makes with his own will power is none other than giving up his life and chance to find happiness in exchange for helping somebody towards whom he feels a little too grateful not to be a sign of an evident lack of self-esteem. Ultimately, he only acquires his self-fulfillment through sacrificing himself for someone else, whom he considers superior to his very own existence." What I mean by copying this is that his character development is not that simple, and in my opinion the writers did an incredible job capturing Rolo's inner struggle through subtle details, gestures and choices of words on his part.

And about deluding himself until the end, the words "indeed, maybe I was being used by Niisan" show that he was in fact conscious and could accept that Lelouch had been using him as a reality. His intense fear for the idea of Nunnally's return makes it way too evident that he knows he's being lied to. Rolo goes into a gradual evolution from first getting to know and become attached to an affectionate Lelouch, then hesitating over his need to finish the mission and kill him, afterwards fearing that Lelouch might be lying to him and thus showing his distrust, to finally concluding that it is staying by Lelouch’s side that he prefers and convincing himself that although it is apparent that Lelouch does not care about him the way he used to anymore, he may still have the possibility of getting that Lelouch back. But he does not go through this last stage simply filling himself with delusions; he’s consciously aware that his hope is too frail, and because of it he needs to constantly prove that he’s right in order to -attempt to- convince himself, by stating how they’re brothers and that their relationship is oh-so-strong in front of others (but not Lelouch, as he might deny it and Rolo’s precisely avoiding to have to hear this truth) all the time: like in his interactions with Sayoko or when he indirectly -very directly actually xD- claims that he’s the one Zero trusts the most when talking to Asahina or when he goes on the defensive every instance someone seems to be suggesting the contrary (Villetta in ep14). Even though it’s clearly not a correct nor a fair assumption, Rolo does have a bit of a basis to believe that he can make Lelouch happier than Nunnally could, or that Lelouch loves him more than he loves his friends, because he truly has known a Lelouch who always wore a façade in front of his friends but showed his true smile only in front of Rolo, and, by comparison, it’s not false that Lelouch suffers more and is much less calm after he regains his memories and has to take the role of Zero and be concerned about Nunnally. So I perceive his final pretending that Lelouch's previous hatred confession had meant nothing to him and that he hadn't believed a word, instead of as simple delusion, as both a final request for some kind words and a bit of attention from the brother he loves and also as a gesture of kindness towards Lelouch, making it clear that he doesn't want him to feel guilty over the mean things he said to him before. Seriously, Rolo's exhausted expression combined with his broken voice as he talks to Lelouch for the last time just scream gentleness to me...

There is also the monologue that came with Complete Best, in which he regrets not having realized before that Lelouch was to help everybody just as he (Lelouch) had helped him (Rolo). I'd say this means he did understand at the end that he should not have been so possessive, and I'm also convinced that had Lelouch assured Rolo that he should stay with him and Nunnally too as a family from the very beginning, he would not have developed that possessiveness (which only stems from his fear of being replaced by her) in the first place.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Kittenlady View Post

I swear if he'd lived longer he'd have eventually raped Lelouch or something.
xD Nah... Rolo is the type to long for touching hands more than doing hardcore stuff.
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Old 2010-06-12, 16:10   Link #2042
Ten-Go
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Originally Posted by aya_kari View Post
Of course it was wrong for Rolo to kill Shirley
ShiRolo - yay or nay?
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Old 2010-06-12, 16:40   Link #2043
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Originally Posted by Ten-Go View Post
ShiRolo - yay or nay?
Nay. Shirley is Lulusexual, so she wouldn't be interested at all.
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Old 2010-06-12, 20:38   Link #2044
Roloko vi Britannia
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I also say hell no....I mean nay to ShiRolo too then again I say that to any paring that involves Shirley. Also Rolo wasn't even close to raping Lelouch where did you guys get that idea at just because he wanted to stay close with Lelouch since he was the first person to treat him with actual kindness instead of an tool with no emotions? Its just like Aya said Rolo is more of the holding hands type person also maybe a person who likes to cuddle and before anybody says anything cuddle DOES NOT equal rape -_-
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Old 2010-06-13, 05:02   Link #2045
aya_kari
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Wink

Also, if anyone's interested (since then again this is the Rolo thread and although discussions about his contribution as a character are interesting, I do guess his fans have the right to talk without having to defend why they like him constantly ) I once wrote a list of evidence that Rolo is important to Lelouch xD no, not in the shippy way. I know there are a lot of people around here too that believe Lelouch never regarded Rolo as more than a pawn, and that in the end all that changed was that he felt a little moved by his sacrifice. Well, there's actually a lot of proof that Rolo's existence was way more special to Lelouch than that, and as some magazine recently wrote, "before long, something like a bond was born between them" ... It's on my blog so I do allow myself to sound a little bit more fangirly, sorry!
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Old 2010-06-13, 21:04   Link #2046
Roloko vi Britannia
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Originally Posted by aya_kari View Post
Also, if anyone's interested (since then again this is the Rolo thread and although discussions about his contribution as a character are interesting, I do guess his fans have the right to talk without having to defend why they like him constantly ) I once wrote a list of evidence that Rolo is important to Lelouch xD no, not in the shippy way. I know there are a lot of people around here too that believe Lelouch never regarded Rolo as more than a pawn, and that in the end all that changed was that he felt a little moved by his sacrifice. Well, there's actually a lot of proof that Rolo's existence was way more special to Lelouch than that, and as some magazine recently wrote, "before long, something like a bond was born between them" ... It's on my blog so I do allow myself to sound a little bit more fangirly, sorry!
oh wow thanks for the link Aya I will make sure to read it later when I have more time I love reading about Rolo and yeah I agree it is kinda disappointing to not have a decent discussion between fans without having to constantly defend him and ourselves
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Last edited by Roloko vi Britannia; 2010-06-13 at 21:52.
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Old 2010-06-14, 15:56   Link #2047
azul120
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Was character list A the list of survivors?

To field the other side, Lelouch did tell Rolo, twice, that "he shouldn't behave that way", upon suggesting that he resort to killing.
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Old 2010-06-15, 06:08   Link #2048
aya_kari
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Originally Posted by azul120 View Post

To field the other side, Lelouch did tell Rolo, twice, that "he shouldn't behave that way", upon suggesting that he resort to killing.
Well, sometimes even if you tell someone that they should stop trying to help you (because actually their actions aren't helping you at all), if they're convinced that they want to be useful they will continue doing things you didn't ask them for out of a need to feel they have "filled their duty", or something like that. I know from experience that this is extremely annoying and leads to none of the two parties being satisfied. I live with my grandmother, who keeps buying and cooking food even when there is already more than enough to eat at home; she has this irrational obsession with self-sacrifice and no matter how kindly you attempt to explain her the situation and that it's okay even if she stops helping with the housework, it won't change a thing: her beliefs are way stronger than factual evidence. Anyway, what I meant to prove with the example is that these kind of cases are not unheard of among people with a low opinion of their worth as individuals. Rolo was little by little overcoming it, but he still had quite the tool-complex too, and had spent all his life being treated as somebody ("something" might fit better) that merely had to serve orders and would be discarded if he lost his usefulness. This idea that being useful is necessary if you want to be appreciated was still carved into his mind, and even though his rational side might have learned the theory that "in a family there is a bond just because", he unconsciously couldn't help but fear that if he wasn't assistive, he would not deserve to be loved. Therefore, since he believed his strong point and the thing he was good at was killing, he attempted to make use of the "ability" to "help Lelouch" (with this I'm referring to the times he offers to kill Suzaku or to fight with the Vincent, not to Shirley's death, since obviously then he attacks her mainly because he's scared of Nunnally's return, not because he really thought she represented a threat to Lelouch.)

This is just my take on an explanation as to why he continued resorting to killing despite Lelouch's words, by no means am I trying to defend Rolo's murderous actions. Having said that, Lelouch himself forgets about pretending that he wants to protect Rolo from danger when he actually wants to put his assassination skills into service himself. He makes Rolo point a gun to Villetta, asks him to cooperate with the slaughter of the Geass Cult, and then has him killing again in order to retrieve Nunnally. Seeing how Lelouch's "don't behave like that" petitions are so sporadic and there's a contradiction between them and the way he in practice makes Rolo behave, he could hardly sound convincing enough to Rolo...

Last edited by aya_kari; 2010-06-15 at 12:37.
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Old 2010-10-25, 08:28   Link #2049
Roloko vi Britannia
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Oh today is the October 25th which means Happy Birthday Rolo!!! 8D
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Old 2010-10-25, 08:35   Link #2050
Arbitres
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Happy Birthday Rolo.

Hey if Lelouch can get Happy Birthdays so can Rolo.
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Old 2010-10-25, 08:41   Link #2051
Roloko vi Britannia
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Originally Posted by Arbitres View Post
Happy Birthday Rolo.

Hey if Lelouch can get Happy Birthdays so can Rolo.
Damn straight xD I have to get that Rolo cake pic again and also post it in the image thread
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Old 2010-10-26, 09:39   Link #2052
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Originally Posted by Roloko vi Britannia View Post
Oh today is the October 25th which means Happy Birthday Rolo!!! 8D

Yeah!!! Happy B!rthDay Rolo!!!!


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Old 2010-10-26, 11:55   Link #2053
Roloko vi Britannia
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I was thinking maybe it could be possible for Rolo and Nunnally to be fraternal twins cause they do look similar and all. Maybe Charles and VV took Rolo away to the geass cult for experimenting after Rolo was born??
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Old 2011-01-21, 04:38   Link #2054
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Originally Posted by Roloko vi Britannia View Post
I was thinking maybe it could be possible for Rolo and Nunnally to be fraternal twins cause they do look similar and all. Maybe Charles and VV took Rolo away to the geass cult for experimenting after Rolo was born??
I have always believed that Rolo was the male version of Nunnally. They do look alike. Perhaps, the producers created Rolo to take on the role of Lelouch's alternate sibling as part of the reset of the second season towards the new audience who had not watched the first season of Code Geass.

In my opinion, Rolo was probably a reflection of what Lelouch's relationship with Nunnally might have been if she were not crippled due to V.V.'s treachery towards her mother, Marianne.
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Old 2011-01-21, 15:30   Link #2055
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Originally Posted by darthfury78 View Post
I have always believed that Rolo was the male version of Nunnally. They do look alike. Perhaps, the producers created Rolo to take on the role of Lelouch's alternate sibling as part of the reset of the second season towards the new audience who had not watched the first season of Code Geass.

In my opinion, Rolo was probably a reflection of what Lelouch's relationship with Nunnally might have been if she were not crippled due to V.V.'s treachery towards her mother, Marianne.
Mmm...I think I'm going to have to disagree. In many aspects, the two are polar opposites. Rolo shows a distinct lack of both conscience and any real emotions while Nunally is the definition of the word. Rolo lets others make important decisions for him (as he always follows orders, even if they're Lelouch's), while Nunally tends to not only make her own decisions but tends to act as an adviser to others.
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Old 2011-01-21, 15:47   Link #2056
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Rolo also munched away Rivalz screen time. He was the one biking Lelouch instead of Rivialz
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Old 2011-01-21, 20:02   Link #2057
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Originally Posted by wredsa View Post
Rolo also munched away Rivalz screen time. He was the one biking Lelouch instead of Rivialz
Rivalz is left out even more when Rolo comes in the scene
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Old 2011-01-22, 05:34   Link #2058
darthfury78
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Originally Posted by lightsenshi View Post
Mmm...I think I'm going to have to disagree. In many aspects, the two are polar opposites. Rolo shows a distinct lack of both conscience and any real emotions while Nunally is the definition of the word. Rolo lets others make important decisions for him (as he always follows orders, even if they're Lelouch's), while Nunally tends to not only make her own decisions but tends to act as an adviser to others.
I was implying that if Nunnally were not crippled, her relationship with Lelouch
might have been quite different. Imagine seeing Lelouch's sister walking around on her own. Lelouch's pretense relationship with Rolo might have been the sort of attention that he might have given towards Nunnally. And this was during the one year time skip before the start of the second season when Lelouch's memories were altered by Charles.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hooves View Post
Rivalz is left out even more when Rolo comes in the scene
Remember that the first half of Code Geass R2 was essentially a repeat of Season One, with regard to the Asford Academy scenes. Therefore, Rivalz relationship towards Lelouch was replaced by Rolo. Not to mention, Nunnally being replaced by Rolo as well throughout the timeskip as his one and only sibling, thanks to Charles' Geass.

Quote:
Originally Posted by wredsa View Post
Rolo also munched away Rivalz screen time. He was the one biking Lelouch instead of Rivialz
This is clearly a borrowed scene from Season One when the producers rewrote the episodes for the second season towards the new audience who had not watch Code Geass before.

Last edited by darthfury78; 2011-01-22 at 05:48.
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Old 2011-10-25, 05:37   Link #2059
Roloko vi Britannia
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Happy Birthday Rolo-chan my sweet adorable male yandere *huggles him*

Also Happy B-day to Nunnally too since I don't think she has her own thread. xD
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