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Old 2008-10-03, 10:23   Link #1801
Rydrallen
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Originally Posted by Vakir View Post
Rolo's sacrifice meant nothing in that plenty of other characters were killed and had some kind of meaningful sacrifice to their cause before that. Plenty of people expressed loyalty to Lelouch and should have altered his perception that way, but no, Rolo had to do it because they didn't want to move the plot along until he was offed.
Rolo's sacrifice is the one that changed Lelouch's perception about the world and trigger off his resolve to create a better future. Shirley's demise didn't, nor did Euphemia's.

Plenty of people pledged loyalty to Lelouch- that is when he was at his prime of power as Zero. At the worst moment of his career as Zero (aka the betrayal) Rolo is the only one who stood by him. And it is through his sacrifice that Lelouch realized that humanity has been, is, and will always be striving for a happier and better tomorrow, and that itself gave him the resolve to stop Charles' plan of attempting to create a stagnant and unchanging world.

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If you took out any of the other three main characters, the entire narrative would fall apart. If you took Rolo out, you'd maybe need to rewrite two, maybe three scenes. Lelouch would need something to distract him at Ashford to tie to his 'other" memory, Shirley would need to die through some other means, and Lelouch would need to evade the mutiny through some other means.
That's the lamest argument that I've ever heard. Obviously anything in a fiction can be changed. Hell, they could even cut off Suzaku and has cyborg Jeremiah as Lelouch's main obstacle. Rolo's character not being one of the mains doesn't change the fact that he is central to Lelouch's change of heart and newfound resolve.

In fact, all of your arguments seemed to be nothing more than personal hatred towards a character.

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Vakir thought the character of Rolo was useless and he was inserted purely to appeal to yaoi fans.
Fixed, and I do not think a person's sexual orientation would actually degrade one's sacrifice for another.
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Old 2008-10-03, 10:34   Link #1802
Deliberation
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TL;DR

@Rydrallen : Good point! XD

There are lots of irrelevant character in Code Geass if you want say all of them out. Change the script and walllaaa you can take the characters off. So they are already there in the end.. so let them be? The thing this is the result of the script.. Taniguchi wanted to do lots of things to R2 but sadly none can be achieve. Too many characters cram into the show and not enough character development. Like example, Gino.

I wish R2 could have more than 25 episodes. Maybe 40-50 seeing how many chock loads of unexplained things (like code transfers, geass cult.. shuuush this STORY title is CODE GEASS!) and of course there are WAY WAY too many characters inside Code Geass with so little character development. Maybe that's the reason why I only bothered about C.C and Lelouch till the end. I do adore Gino, Kanon but as I sadly..hardly anything is known about Kanon except being Schnizel's underling and of course some yaoi fanservice.@_@.
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Old 2008-10-03, 14:38   Link #1803
Vakir
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Originally Posted by Rydrallen View Post
Rolo's sacrifice is the one that changed Lelouch's perception about the world and trigger off his resolve to create a better future. Shirley's demise didn't, nor did Euphemia's.
Meaning you're completely trivializing the rest of the world altering his perceptions that he speaks of when talking to Schneizel in episode 24, the entire damn point of his "tomorrow will be better" ideology. If you told me Rolo was the reason for this, it undermines everyone else's subplot or sacrifice. The only reason Lelouch's perceptions weren't changed before Rolo's sacrifice was because the writers had to kill him off before they progressed the plot. Again, think of it as a work of fiction, not real events. The work itself was already complete and fleshed out, Rolo was just additional pork added on.

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Plenty of people pledged loyalty to Lelouch- that is when he was at his prime of power as Zero. At the worst moment of his career as Zero (aka the betrayal) Rolo is the only one who stood by him. And it is through his sacrifice that Lelouch realized that humanity has been, is, and will always be striving for a happier and better tomorrow, and that itself gave him the resolve to stop Charles' plan of attempting to create a stagnant and unchanging world.
And he stood by him...because he was a completely useless yandere plot device otherwise. First off, Lelouch's resolve to change only happened AFTER Rolo sacrificed and not before because otherwise Rolo would have no reason for being around anymore and would go the way of Rivalz. You can try to analyze it like Lelouch was a real person or something, but if you analyze it like it actually IS, Rolo didn't have actual relevance beyond moving the plot along, which didn't change that he was a crappy character. Secondly, Lelouch had nothing to do with stopping Charles' plan of attempting to create a stagnant world because he didn't even know about it yet. "Stagnant and unchanging" is rather redundant in this context, by the way, Senor Pedantic.

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That's the lamest argument that I've ever heard. Obviously anything in a fiction can be changed. Hell, they could even cut off Suzaku and has cyborg Jeremiah as Lelouch's main obstacle.
They cut off explaining random superhuman hax and they made Jeremiah his main obstacle for maybe a couple of episodes. The former isn't entirely relevant to the overall plot so much as it is a need for exposition, and the latter has NEVER been established within the fandom as anything other than fanservice, something that Sunrise would be glad to admit to.

That's why no one makes a huge, page long character analysis of Jeremiah. He comes in, he DESTROYS STUFF, and he looks cool doing it with his "storm of loyalty." If they do make a page long analysis, they're stupid. He's an Ensemble Darkhorse fanservice character. The difference is, people are acknowledging Rolo as some kind of expansive, indispensable character because of ONE well done death scene, and just before that death scene half of them were RAAAAGING over him. It's a stupidly fickle fanbase that's easy to cater to emotionally and I'm tired of staying quiet about it. Wake the hell up.

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Rolo's character not being one of the mains doesn't change the fact that he is central to Lelouch's change of heart and newfound resolve.
Sure he is, but if he were removed, his change of heart and newfound resolve would've happened anyway because he still would've wanted to rage against daddy and would've drawn all the same conclusions regardless. Hell, it was all the other sacrifices or searches for happiness on top of Rolo's that he cites when talking to Schneizel that exemplify that Rolo is not exclusive in this development. Using all kinds of uber-sappy diction doesn't change that. Lelouch staring off all heartfelt after his dead with a combination of "EPIC" music is enough to make half the viewers instantly forget about whether the character is actually useful, but it isn't enough for me. A good death scene made half of you pull a 180. I could pull the same damn thing off with (insert dictator here to prevent a Godwin on the thread) and you'd all get all sentimental over it.

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In fact, all of your arguments seemed to be nothing more than personal hatred towards a character.
Hatred would imply a strong enough passion for a particular character. Unfortunately, not being particularly important enough to garner that reaction, my hatred isn't at Rolo, who could've been done better, but is rather at the fandumb that acts like a tearful widow at the funeral for a veteran that died from a particularly nasty papercut when everyone else got their heads blown off by mortar fire. I think that's a pretty adequate comparison. (And no, it's not about the severity of how he died)

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Fixed, and I do not think a person's sexual orientation would actually degrade one's sacrifice for another.
No hate at Rolo, see above. Stop playing the "you care about sexual orientation!" card, because I don't, and you're using it only to make your argument look better even though it's absolutely shallow. This isn't about the yaoi crap, this is about the fact that he was inserted almost seemingly exclusively FOR that purpose and was initially advertised as such. Look back at the R2 teaser after ep 25 of season 1 and you'll see how he's crammed in as a seemingly major character. And then, lo and behold, after he's accomplished his intended purpose of being a yandere lapdog, he was mostly stuffed into the fridge until the Cult saga, simply because he had a tie-in that didn't serve as any explanation anyway.

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Originally Posted by Deliberation
Like example, Gino.
Gino does not have his own thread, and if he died and they inserted a "purpose" for him in the story via a character's speech accompanied by epic music, people would probably DEMAND he have a thread made in his "honor" (as if he were real) and would prattle on and on about how amazing of a character he was to jump on the bandwagon with all sorts of tearful eulogies. That's my point, actually. There are plenty of other expendable side characters, they could all be written out, but this one is being wanked by the fanbase endlessly for no reason other than a really sad death scene. It's fickle.
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Old 2008-10-03, 14:52   Link #1804
Nogitsune
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...Hu? The anime said absolutely nothing about Rolo's sexual orientation.
Where did that come from?
Oh well...
I like sad death scenes. And, as I already mentioned, I like Rolo.
I also like Kanon and Gino and various other characters with not enough screen time, but we all know that the second season was a little rushed.
Therefore, I don't mind discussing any interesting character. And I don't see the point in arguing about how much sense that makes to anyone else.
Did I mention that I liked Rolo right from the beginning?
Of course there are always people who constantly change their minds because they are too lazy to properly analize the characters, but I can live with that.
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Old 2008-10-03, 14:57   Link #1805
Vakir
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Originally Posted by Nogitsune View Post
...Hu? The anime said absolutely nothing about Rolo's sexual orientation.
Where did that come from
There was all sorts of yandere yaoi-esque crap going on with Lelouch. It's highly suggestive, but of course they'd never directly state it. But that's kind of irrelevant and not why I'm peeved at some of the high praise he gets that comes in the form of a really cool death scene that people instantly feel is good enough to escalate him to main character status.

Take a character, or even a real person. Anyone. Put them in a similarly edited and musically arranged scene. You'll see how people react to it. It's the same way people recut trailers for horror movies to look like romantic comedies for the sake of humor and pull it off VERY well, or even how anything in slow motion looks cooler or more interesting than it does at normal speed. The problem is people take this device and instantly give characters all kinds of supposed levels of "depth" or "relevance" that otherwise just wasn't there.
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Old 2008-10-03, 15:02   Link #1806
Nogitsune
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Originally Posted by Vakir View Post
There was all sorts of yandere yaoi-esque crap going on with Lelouch.
o.o
Did I miss something? xD

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The problem is people take this device and instantly give characters all kinds of supposed levels of "depth" or "relevance" that otherwise just wasn't there.
Hm... I mostly agree with the relevance part, but the depth was there from the start in this case. Otherwise, I wouldn't have liked Rolo that much. ;P
Not to mention that every character in Code Geass has depth.
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Old 2008-10-03, 15:06   Link #1807
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Originally Posted by Nogitsune View Post

Not to mention that every character in Code Geass has depth.
Well, I wouldn't agree with the characters invented so they could die, or so that they could hang around (Monica, Dorothea, Romeyer, King, Calares, Korczak, Upson, the Bridge Bunnies, Odysseus, Carline, Guinevere...the two exceptions to this are the Valkyrie Team, for they appear in novels, and Bismarck, because of what he said about Marianne.).
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Old 2008-10-03, 15:08   Link #1808
Vakir
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Originally Posted by Nogitsune View Post
o.o
Did I miss something? xD
Giggly pillowfights and near-kisses.

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Hm... I mostly agree with the relevance part, but the depth was there from the start in this case. Otherwise, I wouldn't have liked Rolo that much. ;P
Not to mention that every character in Code Geass has depth.
Rolo is "deep" in the sense that a lot of anime characters are "deep" on the surface. Unfortunately, once you outgrow middle school fanfiction, you'll find that inserting a character that embodies an archetype with no exceptions and then just piling on a myriad of flaws for woobiefication doesn't make them as "deep" as others claim. So "deep" becomes relative. Again, the problem isn't ROLO, who could've done better yet wasn't awful, it's the outcry and reaction from a particularly mundane existence that doesn't deserve the level of praise it gets.
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Old 2008-10-03, 15:18   Link #1809
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Originally Posted by Dream_Traveller View Post
Well, I wouldn't agree with the characters invented so they could die, or so that they could hang around (Monica, Dorothea, Romeyer, King, Calares, Korczak, Upson, the Bridge Bunnies, Odysseus, Carline, Guinevere...the two exceptions to this are the Valkyrie Team, for they appear in novels, and Bismarck, because of what he said about Marianne.).
Hm... I agree, but not completely.
I mean, even Clovis had depth, and he died right in the beginning. xD





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Originally Posted by Vakir View Post
Giggly pillowfights and near-kisses.
Huh. I actually never saw that as hints.
To me, it was just Rolo discovering his more human side and Lelouch being Lelouch. He was always damn cute when it came to Nunally.
And since Rolo took her place... *shrugs*
The only hinted shounen-ai I noticed was SchneizelxKanon.


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Rolo is "deep" in the sense that a lot of anime characters are "deep" on the surface. Unfortunately, once you outgrow middle school fanfiction, inserting a character that embodies an archetype with no exceptions and then just piles on a myriad of flaws for woobiefication, it doesn't make them as "deep" as others claim.
I completely disagree.
I think that Rolo has quite a lot of depth - he reminds me of Chloe (from "Noir") for a reason.
And I really can't find many archetypes in Code Geass.

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Again, the problem isn't ROLO, who could've done better yet wasn't awful, it's the outcry and reaction from a particularly mundane existence that doesn't deserve the level of praise it gets.
I don't understand why that seems to irk you so much.
People always see what they want to see. And as far as I'm concerned, Rolo deserves the attention more than all those supposed pairings out there.
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Old 2008-10-03, 15:19   Link #1810
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Er...Chloe was much deeper than Rolo ever was. Personal opinion.
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Old 2008-10-03, 15:23   Link #1811
Nogitsune
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Er...Chloe was much deeper than Rolo ever was. Personal opinion.
I agree.
I only said that Rolo reminds me of her.
Chloe was a main character, he isn't.
Chloe was my obsession for years, he isn't... and never will be.
Still, they have some things in common.
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Old 2008-10-03, 15:23   Link #1812
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Hm... I agree, but not completely.
I mean, even Clovis had depth, and he died right in the beginning. xD
Clovis had mostly depth via picture eps. Give Rolo similar treatment and I'll bite, but I'll still acknowledge the following he has NOW is through melodrama, not good writing.

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Huh. I actually never saw that as hints.
To me, it was just Rolo discovering his more human side and Lelouch being Lelouch. He was always damn cute when it came to Nunally.
And since Rolo took her place... *shrugs*
The only hinted shounen-ai I noticed was SchneizelxKanon.
The near mouth kiss? I dunno, when you want to kill off his sister, things are going in the Fatal Attraction direction rather quickly.

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I don't understand why that seems to irk you so much.
People always see what they want to see. And as far as I'm concerned, Rolo deserves the attention better than all those supposed pairings out there.
They're completely blind and have not the faintest notion of being able to acknowledge that they were totally suckered in by a melodramatic, well shot scene. It's not more or less annoying than supposed pairings, it's about equal. Except for pairings that vehemently deny. Like a certain vocal minority.
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Old 2008-10-03, 15:33   Link #1813
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They're completely blind and have not the faintest notion of being able to acknowledge that they were totally suckered in by a melodramatic, well shot scene. It's not more or less annoying than supposed pairings, it's about equal. Except for pairings that vehemently deny. Like a certain vocal minority
Hm... I see your point, but I also think that there is no use in arguing over this kind of thing.
I was touched by Rolo's death scene because I liked him right from the beginning, but I'll not hesistate to admit that a lot of his potential was wasted. Same goes for Gino and Kanon and various other characters. They noticeably rushed things.
In any case, I'll have to re-watch some RoloLelouch interaction. xD
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Old 2008-10-03, 15:49   Link #1814
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Well, Gino was a ditzy pilot-born-noble who had the ever so prominent distinction of killing a side-character, and Kanon was an aide who had the distinction of...providing the recording that made the BKs betray Lelouch. Obviously Kanon was more important, but even if R2 was less rushed, things wouldn't have been any different.
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Old 2008-10-03, 15:50   Link #1815
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Honestly, those who keep saying that Rolo is only the result of NOT AS PLANNED and is there just for yaoi fanservice should pay more attention to all the depth put into his character. All the scenes showing his emotions (like him looking at his locket in episode 6 after hearing Lelouch say "I love you, Nunnally!", or in episode 12 when he's complaining that Sayoko made promises to other people, or in that same episode again, when Lelouch says he doesn't want to get Shirley involved anymore and Rolo reacts with surprise, while Viletta and Sayoko have no reaction so the only focus is on him, or all the times he was shown wondering whether he could trust Lelouch in episode 5, or that scene in episode 13 in which Viletta asks him why he'd betrayed the cult, and he gets all defensive...), which could have been MUCH more simplified. They are not necessary to help the main plot advance. If they just wanted to show that he's doubtful at first but then ends up getting attached to Lelouch, they wouldn't have needed to emphasize on his feelings SO much.

I've already lost count of all the occasions I've been surprised by how well he kept being treated after episode 13. Like TVTropes has him listed as, I, too, was afraid that he would become a "scrappy" after what he did to Shirley. Indeed, the viewers started hating Rolo and wishing that he died. I thought his role as a tragic character had ended. The writers kept respecting him instead.

Seriously, not even Lelouch blamed him directly. The series would mainly portray The Cult as the real culprit and thus keep Rolo's image as that of a victim's. He is, indeed, partly, but heck, Rolo is my absolute favourite and even I thought that it was unfair for Shirley (and her fans). And going as far as stopping to include her in the relationship chart... It's like by playing her death down, they're trying to make it seem like what Rolo did was not so bad. I'm not saying that's what Sunrise means to transmit, it's just a feeling I get, just like how I feel that Nunnally's character was destroyed (in the sense that she'd become Lelouch's enemy and not be able to live with him happily in the end) just so that the viewers would miss and appreciate the other little sibling more. I insist that this is just a feeling I get and hopefully not the truth, as it'd be too extreme of a bias.

Still, did you notice how there was only one new picture when Lelouch was about to die and remembering all the people important to him? Yeah, it featured him and ROLO. ONLY Rolo got a freakin' new pic, which was shown for longer than most of the rest of the flashback scenes, too. Can this privilege be justified with a simple "it's just for the yaoi fangirls"? I can't even think of a reasonable justification either. Logic tells that, in case someone were to get new footage in Lelouch's mind, it should be Nunnally. Why is it Rolo? You can't say Lelouch only pitied his sacrifice but didn't feel a personal lose. Sunrise seems to be the one who wants Rolo back, too!

Then, what I mean to say is, do you people really believe Taniguchi hates Rolo? Do you really think he'd have been given such a beautiful death scene "only for the fangirls"? For me, all the feeling put into not only his final moments, but also his whole development, is apparent.

Sometimes even if you have to make unexpected changes, you might end up liking at least part of the results. Seeing all the respect and love he's been treated with I'd say he rather symbolizes the good part of the new R2. Again, I don't think he deserves more appreciation than other characters at all, I'm just talking about the bit of him being or not just a "rag" to the writers themselves.


(By the way, Vakir, Rivalz made a direct mention asking about Rolo in episode 20.)
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Old 2008-10-03, 15:55   Link #1816
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Honestly, those who keep saying that Rolo is only the result of NOT AS PLANNED and is there just for yaoi fanservice should pay more attention to all the depth put into his character. All the scenes showing his emotions (like him looking at his locket in episode 6 after hearing Lelouch say "I love you, Nunnally!", or in episode 12 when he's complaining that Sayoko made promises to other people, or in that same episode again, when Lelouch says he doesn't want to get Shirley involved anymore and Rolo reacts with surprise, while Viletta and Sayoko have no reaction so the only focus is on him, or all the times he was shown wondering whether he could trust Lelouch in episode 5, or that scene in episode 13 in which Viletta asks him why he'd betrayed the cult, and he gets all defensive...), which could have been MUCH more simplified. They are not necessary to help the main plot advance. If they just wanted to show that he's doubtful at first but then ends up getting attached to Lelouch, they wouldn't have needed to emphasize on his feelings SO much.
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Sometimes even if you have to make unexpected changes, you might end up liking at least part of the results. Seeing all the respect and love he's been treated with I'd say he rather symbolizes the good part of the new R2. Again, I don't think he deserves more appreciation than other characters at all, I'm just talking about the bit of him being or not just a "rag" to the writers themselves.
I think I can happily sign that.
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Old 2008-10-03, 16:00   Link #1817
Vakir
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Originally Posted by momoreiji View Post
Honestly, those who keep saying that Rolo is only the result of NOT AS PLANNED and is there just for yaoi fanservice should pay more attention to all the depth put into his character. All the scenes showing his emotions (like him looking at his locket in episode 6 after hearing Lelouch say "I love you, Nunnally!", or in episode 12 when he's complaining that Sayoko made promises to other people, or in that same episode again, when Lelouch says he doesn't want to get Shirley involved anymore and Rolo reacts with surprise, while Viletta and Sayoko have no reaction so the only focus is on him, or all the times he was shown wondering whether he could trust Lelouch in episode 5, or that scene in episode 13 in which Viletta asks him why he'd betrayed the cult, and he gets all defensive...), which could have been MUCH more simplified. They are not necessary to help the main plot advance. If they just wanted to show that he's doubtful at first but then ends up getting attached to Lelouch, they wouldn't have needed to emphasize on his feelings SO much.
So, facial expressions = deep. Uh, right. I had no idea that animating something made it mean it was well written.

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I've already lost count of all the occasions I've been surprised by how well he kept being treated after episode 13. Like TVTropes has him listed as, I, too, was afraid that he would become a "scrappy" after what he did to Shirley. Indeed, the viewers started hating Rolo and wishing that he died. I thought his role as a tragic character had ended. The writers kept respecting him instead.
The writers respected Suzaku and Nina, the king and queen of scrappys for the majority of the series, too. The only character that got no respect, actually, was Diethard, because everyone hates the media. Irrelevant.

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Seriously, not even Lelouch blamed him directly. The series would mainly portray The Cult as the real culprit and thus keep Rolo's image as that of a victim's. He is, indeed, partly, but heck, Rolo is my absolute favourite and even I thought that it was unfair for Shirley (and her fans).
Never said Lelouch blamed him directly. Stop addressing Lelouch like a real person. The WRITING was inadequate.

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And going as far as stopping to include her in the relationship chart... It's like by resting importance to her death, they're trying to make it seem like what Rolo did was not so bad. I'm not saying that's what Sunrise means to transmit, it's just a feeling I get, just like how I feel that Nunnally's character was destroyed (in the sense that she'd become Lelouch's enemy and not be able to live with him happily in the end) just so that the viewers would miss and appreciate the other little sibling more. I insist that this is just a feeling I get and hopefully not the truth, as it'd be too extreme of a bias.
I'm glad you acknowledge the difference between bias and what is necessarily true. Obviously Sunrise wants Rolo to be seen as a positive character, I'm merely saying his "depth" and the extent to which he was relevant to the story as a whole was poorly implemented and for the most part that stems from his original intention in the first place. You can recover a character with a saving throw, it's much harder to do when you are starting off with "NOT AS PLANNED."

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Still, did you notice how there was only one new picture when Lelouch was about to die and remembering all the people important to him? Yeah, it featured him and ROLO. ONLY Rolo got a freakin' new pic, which was shown for longer than most of the rest of the flashback scenes, too. Can this privilege be justified with a simple "it's just for the yaoi fangirls"? I can't even think of a reasonable justification either. Logic tells that, in case someone were to get new footage in Lelouch's mind, it should be Nunnally. Why is it Rolo? You can't say Lelouch only pitied his sacrifice but didn't feel a personal lose. Sunrise seems to be the one who wants Rolo back, too!
Holding one image for an extra second doesn't mean he was well written. Lelouch is entitled to care more about Rolo than _____. Unfortunately, Lelouch isn't a real person.

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Then, what I mean to say is, do you people really believe Taniguchi hates Rolo? Do you really think he'd have been given such a beautiful death scene "only for the fangirls"? For me, all the feeling put into not only his final moments, but also his whole development, is apparent.
Taniguchi would've obviously done whatever the hell he could in order to make up for Rolo because he wouldn't shove someone who needed to be around out completely for the sake of those who did like him. That doesn't mean what he did with Rolo up to then was adequate.

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Sometimes even if you have to make unexpected changes, you might end up liking at least part of the results. Seeing all the respect and love he's been treated with I'd say he rather symbolizes the good part of the new R2. Again, I don't think he deserves more appreciation than other characters at all, I'm just talking about the bit of him being or not just a "rag" to the writers themselves.
His death scene was nice. And, uh...um...steamy yaoi scene with that near-kiss for those into that. Oh, and I guess him murdering his friends at the cult was cool in a sort of mood dissonance way. But beyond that? Eh. Not the best part of R2. Not even close. Overhyped, and that's the problem.

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(By the way, Vakir, Rivalz made a direct mention asking about Rolo in episode 20.)
Lelouch did not directly acknowledge him. Rivalz would need to in order to establish the continued memory wipe.
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Old 2008-10-03, 16:10   Link #1818
Nogitsune
Shameless Fangirl
 
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Germany
Age: 23
May I mention that I like Rolo's character song?
The translation I found (and shortened a little):

"I can live all alone
Without feeling a thing, or so I thought.
(...)Light was shone into the darkness
And I was saved.
Because I'll protect you this time
Because when it comes to the meaning of living, it's here
The person who gave me the heart
Known as 'happiness'- ...Brother
When it's sad, when it's lonely
I'm here, so close to you
So show me, let your gaze
Only turn to me.
I'm not lost; I found my place
It's to be by your side instead of anyone else (doing so).
I'll fight, throwing away my life
If my precious person hurts me
I can overcome it, if our bond exists
Beyond this, too. (...)"

People may say and think whatever they wish and argue all they want, but in my eyes, Rolo has a lot of depth.
His image song just sums it up.
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Old 2008-10-03, 16:15   Link #1819
Worriors1
Spontaneous Retirement.
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: United States
My gosh guys, what is with all of the arguments? I figured this would stop after two or three days, but you're driving this thread into the 'most hated' section.

I can understand wanting to justify whatever you believe in, but come on. Rolo did what he was supposed to do as a character and a few people even began liking him (I, for one, liked him mainly because he was freakin' nuts, and I wish he was more insane than all "Yay, I'm obessesive,") but come on, enough is enough. They're fictional characters, whoever said that is right.

Krimzon, Vakir, anyone else hoping to start something, calm the frick down. I don't care who started it, this is a character dicussion thread, not a argument/debate thread. As entertaining as it is to read your long walls of texts, the show is over, Rolo's dead, everyone is dead. There's not much else to argue over.

But hey, you know, whatever floats your boat. Just offering a treaty here.
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Old 2008-10-03, 16:29   Link #1820
KrimzonStriker
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Meh, I'm tired of looking at Vakir's posts all together, he says I'm being over dramatic or trivial on the whole matter, but I do have my own aspirations to be a writer or some kind in the future, as such I don't base things or works on the circumstances in which they are brought about or just trash stories because of outside production value costs or whatever, I take an actual look and try to understand the contents, progression, development, and purpose within the context of the story and that is what we are judging here, what Vakir is judging here and taking it out for what he feels were the inadequacies of the studio which made it. How Rolo came about, why he came about outside of the actual story is not what I'm really focusing about here, and if I felt worth in his character as others have as well in their considerations then that is how I feel in this case, once again I did not like the direction in the original boards that the studio was going through so in comparison I don't have the problems with R2 that Vakir has, and apparently is associating with Rolo now. As a character, I thought Rolo was interesting, understandable and sympathetic, kick ass at times, tragic, admirable. and provided what I had actually wanted in terms of contribution to the plot, whether or not another character could have provided the same I don't know and will not really know to be honest, all I know is that he was the one that provided it in the end, and I'll appreciate him for that in this case instead off trying to demerit it because things could have been different, or under some arrogant impression that because I say so things should have been different, as I get from Vakir right now. So, I'm not going to get into this anymore, I feel he's basically just making the whole thing pointless and a mockery because he can't control his angst now and feels the need to ridicule anything and everyone because of it.
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