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Old 2010-03-03, 08:59   Link #2021
Spideyknight
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I still think this is one of the better told and implemented stories in all the anime I've watched. The pacing, characters, story, animation, etc... all top notch. I was extremely impressed. Hope they animate the other novels as well.
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Old 2010-03-03, 14:37   Link #2022
Daniel Lind
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Quote:
# The fact that Renai Circulation's music was done without the Si note was purely coincidental. She realized that after the song has been released.
Mind = Blown. I love the song.

Quote:
This series sells big and that is all there is to it, and it's not like we can complain especially when the economy is not exactly giving us a lot of space to move. All I can say is a series sells because it appeals to people and when a series appeals to people.....IT MEANS ITS GOOD!
Oh really now? Then Evangelion must be the greatest anime of all time. Is it? Despite of it having a lot of strong and unique points, it features one of the most incoherent narratives in anime ever, that's what it does. Though it appeals to people, can we really call it good? Or, perhaps, are you willing to go as far as to say that shows that do not sale are bad? So you claim Aoi Hana is bad because it didn't sell? And of course it didn't sell! It actually had good writing, well thought out characters, and zero appeal to retarded moe crowd and various otaku fetishes!

Oh and I see the reason for ecchi shows always selling at least 2k-4k copies. They're clearly not utter garbage!

Sells have nothing to do with quality of a show. Popular does not equal to good.
Yes, I am quite mad.

...Makes me actually wonder if there is such category as "good" and how do you actually measure "good" and if it still boils down to likes and dislikes, they why bother? Although "good" normally means "universally good", good for everyone, so... still kind of a bold thing to claim.

Last edited by Daniel Lind; 2010-03-03 at 14:53.
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Old 2010-03-03, 16:11   Link #2023
Marion
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Originally Posted by Daniel Lind View Post
Sells have nothing to do with quality of a show. Popular does not equal to good.
I have to agree. When something sells a lot that doesn't mean it's good by just that alone, it just means it's popular. How good the show is depends on who is watching. I myself am not a fan of K-On!, but I know that there are some people who believe it to be one of the best anime ever made. Opinions and all.

Quote:
All four songs contained the word "egao" ("smile"); or rather, most Meg Rock's song in 2009 does.
Even though this was done before the public release of Sugar Sweet Nightmare, the song doesn't have egao in it.

Spoiler for "Smile" in the other songs:


Pretty odd if you ask me.
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Old 2010-03-03, 16:13   Link #2024
zato_1one
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You are thinking too much. IMO He never said that the quality is proportional with sale. He only means that the series appeals to many people. If many people like it then it's good. But how good is it is another question.

And I think that the best selling anime ever is Spirited Away not Evangelion. CMIIW
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Old 2010-03-03, 16:14   Link #2025
Raskolnikov
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Originally Posted by Daniel Lind View Post
Mind = Blown. I love the song.
Sells have nothing to do with quality of a show. Popular does not equal to good.
Yes, I am quite mad.

...Makes me actually wonder if there is such category as "good" and how do you actually measure "good" and if it still boils down to likes and dislikes, they why bother? Although "good" normally means "universally good", good for everyone, so... still kind of a bold thing to claim.
Oh hello, fellow Russian. We tend to think alike.
As for my own opinion, the show is original and entertaining but it doesn't have that much depth.
And don't treat this as a hate speech - I did say that I enjoyed watching every minute of it. I just fail to notice the DEEP aspects.
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Old 2010-03-03, 17:02   Link #2026
Clarste
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What does deep even mean? I don't think it's meaningful to follow that line of thought until we know we're all talking about the same thing. Bakemonogatari has well-written dialog featuring characters who are usually slight twists on common archetypes (except Nadeko who has no twists and is the least interesting character for it). Some of the characters are analyzed more than others and have an interesting consistency in their otherwise disparate actions that can be explained by reference to underlying personality traits that are not explicitly stated in the text, although usually fairly obvious in the subtext.

The story is a simple love story/love triangle thing, with some side character arcs to better develop the primary characters. I don't think it's really pretending to be more than that, but it seems to be a common misconception. This is not a story-based show, and the story is not its strong point. It's entirely about the characters and how they interact with Araragi, and he with them.

Bakemonogatari can be enjoyed by people who like it's surface prettiness and fanservice (which is relatively tasteful, usually, and when it's not is exaggerated to the point of parody), but also by people who like to analyze characters in fiction. I don't think we'll be talking about it literature classes a hundred years from now or anything like that, but it succeeds on both those fronts.

Last edited by Clarste; 2010-03-03 at 17:34.
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Old 2010-03-03, 17:06   Link #2027
Raskolnikov
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Originally Posted by Clarste View Post
What does deep even mean? I don't it's meaningful to follow that line of thought until we know we're all talking about the same thing. Bakemonogatari has well-written dialog featuring characters who are usually slight twists on common archetypes (except Nadeko who has no twists and is the least interesting character for it). Some of the characters are analyzed more than others and have an interesting consistency in their otherwise disparate actions that can be explained by reference to underlying personality traits that are not explicitly stated in the text, although usually fairly obvious in the subtext.

The story is a simple love story/love triangle thing, with some side character arcs to better develop the primary characters. I don't think it's really pretending to be more than that, but it seems to be a common misconception. This is not a story-based show, and the story is not its strong point. It's entirely about the characters and how they interact with Araragi, and he with them.

Bakemonogatari can be enjoyed by people who like it's surface prettiness and fanservice (which is relatively tasteful, usually, and when it's not is exaggerated to the point of parody), but also by people who like to analyze characters in fiction. I don't think we'll be talking about it literature classes a hundred years from now or anything like that, but it succeeds on both those fronts.
I couldn't have said it better myself.
I don't get all of those people who hail this series as the DEEPest thing since Lain. It's a well written show with nice characters. Nothing more or less.
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Old 2010-03-03, 17:09   Link #2028
sirn
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Originally Posted by Marion View Post
Even though this was done before the public release of Sugar Sweet Nightmare, the song doesn't have egao in it. Pretty odd if you ask me.
Um, isn't that's why she's saying she can't put the word "egao" in Sugar Sweet Nightmare?
The lecture was done on February 27.
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Old 2010-03-03, 19:04   Link #2029
Sol Falling
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Clarste View Post
What does deep even mean? I don't think it's meaningful to follow that line of thought until we know we're all talking about the same thing. Bakemonogatari has well-written dialog featuring characters who are usually slight twists on common archetypes (except Nadeko who has no twists and is the least interesting character for it). Some of the characters are analyzed more than others and have an interesting consistency in their otherwise disparate actions that can be explained by reference to underlying personality traits that are not explicitly stated in the text, although usually fairly obvious in the subtext.

The story is a simple love story/love triangle thing, with some side character arcs to better develop the primary characters. I don't think it's really pretending to be more than that, but it seems to be a common misconception. This is not a story-based show, and the story is not its strong point. It's entirely about the characters and how they interact with Araragi, and he with them.

Bakemonogatari can be enjoyed by people who like it's surface prettiness and fanservice (which is relatively tasteful, usually, and when it's not is exaggerated to the point of parody), but also by people who like to analyze characters in fiction. I don't think we'll be talking about it literature classes a hundred years from now or anything like that, but it succeeds on both those fronts.
To say that Bakemonogatari isn't deep isn't to fault it, it's just to say that there's more meaningful stuff out there. This show really is an amazing watch as you're watching it, but ultimately, you won't come away from it with very much.

The only show I've really made this comparison with is Katanagatari. While I am a bit disappointed that it doesn't reach the artistic/technical heights that Shaft can (I'll also have to admit that Shaft's style might not totally fit it though), as a story, and as emotion, I find it much more compelling.
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Old 2010-03-03, 21:38   Link #2030
omimon
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Originally Posted by Daniel Lind View Post
Mind = Blown. I love the song.


Oh really now? Then Evangelion must be the greatest anime of all time. Is it? Despite of it having a lot of strong and unique points, it features one of the most incoherent narratives in anime ever, that's what it does. Though it appeals to people, can we really call it good? Or, perhaps, are you willing to go as far as to say that shows that do not sale are bad? So you claim Aoi Hana is bad because it didn't sell? And of course it didn't sell! It actually had good writing, well thought out characters, and zero appeal to retarded moe crowd and various otaku fetishes!

Oh and I see the reason for ecchi shows always selling at least 2k-4k copies. They're clearly not utter garbage!

Sells have nothing to do with quality of a show. Popular does not equal to good.
Yes, I am quite mad.

...Makes me actually wonder if there is such category as "good" and how do you actually measure "good" and if it still boils down to likes and dislikes, they why bother? Although "good" normally means "universally good", good for everyone, so... still kind of a bold thing to claim.
Despite the fact that there are shows I think is good but doesn't sell well, I think sells is in fact a good indication whether or not is it good in the general eyes. I mean I realize there are PEOPLE out there who hates shows like One Piece and Dragon Ball even despite though generally they are hotter than baked potatos.
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Old 2010-03-04, 04:19   Link #2031
karice67
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Originally Posted by Sol Falling View Post
To say that Bakemonogatari isn't deep isn't to fault it, it's just to say that there's more meaningful stuff out there. This show really is an amazing watch as you're watching it, but ultimately, you won't come away from it with very much.
I think that it is possible to come away with something more...but only for people who see some of the one character or another in themselves. If you think of "depth" as some kind of message for viewers, I don't think Bakemonogatari has an overreaching message that most people can benefit from. Nevertheless, SOME people will be able to take something from it, depending on how much empathy they have with the characters. Others will simply enjoy whatever it is they enjoy about it, be it the dialogue or the fanservice. Personally, I fit in both categories, although I might never have thought about the former if not for some character analyses I read on these forums.

If Nishio Ishin intended this to be anything more than another story to showcase his fantastic dialogue (and perhaps, characters), I'm really not seeing it. Given his output, I really think he's writing just because he wants to. And as some people have said, he needs to realise when to stop.
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Old 2010-03-04, 04:31   Link #2032
omimon
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Originally Posted by karice67 View Post
If Nishio Ishin intended this to be anything more than another story to showcase his fantastic dialogue (and perhaps, characters), I'm really not seeing it. Given his output, I really think he's writing just because he wants to. And as some people have said, he needs to realise when to stop.
What's wrong with writing just for the sake of writing? He likes what he does and his fans likes it too. Just because some outspoken people doesn't appreciate his style doesn't mean he should stop.
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Old 2010-03-04, 04:41   Link #2033
karice67
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Originally Posted by omimon View Post
What's wrong with writing just for the sake of writing? He likes what he does and his fans likes it too. Just because some outspoken people doesn't appreciate his style doesn't mean he should stop.
hm...my comment may be premature given that I haven't gotten around to reading the novels yet, but I've heard that, the longer some of his series are, the more tedious they are to read in later novels. Even from people who like his style when they first start.

I really like Nishio-sensei's dialogue, and I think I'll love at least Bake and Kizu when I first read them, but I'm a bit nervous about getting to the later ones...
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Old 2010-03-04, 06:02   Link #2034
sirn
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Bad news. Bakemonogatari Vol.6 - Tsubasa Cat 2 has been postponed to
June 9, 2010

via Sofmap
Quote:
■商品について
発売日が3/24から6/9に変更になりました。
It's either an error from Sofmap's side or LOLSHAFT.
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Old 2010-03-04, 06:08   Link #2035
Morbus
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We were expecting it, weren't we?

And this means the next episode won't be coming until late May.

Moo ii. All the more reason to rewatch the whole series for the 4th time :3
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Old 2010-03-04, 06:09   Link #2036
sirn
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Actually, I'm expecting something like, say, April. June is totally unexpected.

Animate has also updated their site. So it's pretty much LOLSHAFT, not an error.

Edit: Official site has also updated. Announcement.

Spoiler for my feelings:
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Old 2010-03-04, 06:22   Link #2037
omimon
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Actually, I'm expecting something like, say, April. June is totally unexpected.

Animate has also updated their site. So it's pretty much LOLSHAFT, not an error.

Edit: Official site has also updated. Announcement.

Spoiler for my feelings:
Let's face it, we saw from a mile away.
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Old 2010-03-04, 06:45   Link #2038
Azuma Denton
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NOOO !!!!
RAAAAAAAAGE !!!!

JUNE !!! JUNE !!!!
I was expecting either April or May...
But JUNE !!!!



Oh no...
I'll just crying in the corner....
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Old 2010-03-04, 07:04   Link #2039
Woland
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At least Shaft doesn't seems to have anything planned after Arakawa... I hope they learned a lesson in the last year (but I'm not very confident...), so they can improve theirs works (I'm quite sure is less expensive to work quietly and not repeatedly redoing the episodes ).
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Old 2010-03-04, 07:40   Link #2040
Westlo
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Utter rage at another delay (seriously shaft can get f'd) aside I'm puzzled/bewildered that apparently heaps of Bake fans appreciate it because it's "deep". smh @ Bakemonogatari being a pretentious anime only liked because it has depth... lolwut?
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