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View Poll Results: Are you Pro guy or anti guy?
Pro 16 76.19%
Anti 5 23.81%
Voters: 21. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 2008-04-24, 15:45   Link #1
AnbuItachi
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Join Date: May 2004
Love and Responsibility

I came across an argument today with 3 girls, (I'm a guy) about this scenario.

(Assume Guy and Girl truly love each other)
Guy and Girl engaged.
Girl's parents steals large sum of money from guy's parents, announces bankruptcy and leaves the country, leaving girl behind.
Girl's left behind and goes to guy for help.
Guy's parents are pissed, cause he's CEO and it caused a big dent on him.
Guy's parents refuse to let Guy marry Girl.
Guy goes on his knees and begs to his parents.
Guy asks girl to beg with him.
Guy's parents still refuses.
Guy tells girl that if we keep trying, my parents will eventually let us.
Girl asks the guy to stop, and if you truly love me, you'd leave everything behind and elope with me.
Guy slowly lets go of her hands and looks at her, and regretfully says "I can't do it because I'm their only son. Their future and their life's work rests on my shoulders. If I leave my parents will be forced to go into bankruptcy with no where to go. I can't just abandon my parents."
Girl runs away.


(Note: In this country, bankruptcy = no money, no property = no house etc.
Also: The first question the Girl asked Guy was about eloping.)


About the money lending:
Story is Girl's parents are also business people and their parents decided to be partners since Girl is marrying Guy. So the Guy's parents invested a lot in the Girl's parents because girl's parents needed funding. Guy's parents won't go bankrupt cause because of this money alone but because of the bad image the event put on the company especially if the Guy goes with the Girl and elopes, causing people to lose trust and eventually bankrupt the company.
____________________________________

Argument I was having is about if the guy is right or wrong. (No in between)

My argument was pro-Guy.
Reason: Even though she's the girl of your life and your true love, you can't let love blind you and lose all sense of responsibility. Parents cared for you and raised you for all your life. Choosing love in this scenario is wrong(if only choices are right or wrong) because you are putting everyone's happiness after your owns. (though i don't know how you can be too happy after ditching your parents) If Guy leaves parents will be homeless. All workers in his company will lose their job. That is irresponsible and selfish in my opinion. The best option would be let the girl calm down and discuss it further but girl wouldn't listen and believed that the guy should do everything for her because he loved her so she wanted to elope. That kind of behavior in my opinion = selfishness and somewhat arrogance.

Argument of friends who were anti-guy:
They loved each other. Love should be above everything. The guy just wants to be with his parents cause he wants their money. Besides, sacrifices and responsbilities are important but love is still the most important of everything. So he should have eloped with her.
__________________________________________

I'm posting because I want to see what others think. In my mind, I don't see how one can disregard everyone's feelings but your owns and the one you loves and just pursue your own happiness so easily like that while making thousands jobless and making your OWN parents jobless and homeless. One should look at the picture as a whole, analyze all parts before making a decision. The reason "Love is above everything" to me is just wrong.

Based on the above scenario (just the above) and the notes. Are you pro or against?

Last edited by AnbuItachi; 2008-04-24 at 16:10.
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Old 2008-04-24, 15:52   Link #2
Rembr
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Lolz, I'll bite.

Love should not be above compromises.

The 'arguments' of the anti-guy reeks of hopeless romanticist. There must be other arguments besides that.
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Old 2008-04-24, 16:00   Link #3
SeedFreedom
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Before i answer, i will mention i am a guy. From my point of view, i'm anti guy's parents. They made the stupid move to lend money they couldn't afford and are using their son to get back at her parents. He basically between a rock and a hard place when hes done nothing. If i were the guy, i'd leave the parents simply because they don't care about my happiness and only revenge.

As for the more general "should love conquer all" question, love has to be two sided. So for one of them to even use the line "if you love me you'll..." should mean it wont work out.
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Old 2008-04-24, 16:10   Link #4
AnbuItachi
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Actually I didn't go to deep upon the borrowing money part. Story is Girl's parents are also business people and their parents decided to be partners since Girl is marrying Guy. So the Guy's parents invested a lot in the Girl's parents because girl's parents needed funding. Guy's parents won't go bankrupt cause because of this money alone but because of the bad image the event put on the company especially if the Guy goes with the Girl and elopes, causing people to lose trust and eventually bankrupt the company.
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Old 2008-04-24, 16:17   Link #5
SeedFreedom
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Doesn't change my opinion. The girls parents being jerks doesn't mean shes bad and they shouldn't get married. Bad image was brought on by parents and girls parents, wont affect their marriage and blocking it wont do any good either. the bad image has already been dealt and all thats left is spite. Blocking it wont make people trust the company again.
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Old 2008-04-24, 16:18   Link #6
AnbuItachi
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id agree abou tparents too. i think they were just too mad at that moment and wouldn't think it over and took it out on the Guy + Girl. But here i'm focusing on the guy and not parents.
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Old 2008-04-24, 17:16   Link #7
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Responsibilities first even if you love someone. Love is second to keeping my life order. Love don't pay your bills does it?
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Old 2008-04-24, 18:06   Link #8
AnbuItachi
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aww the only anti person didn't post an explanation =(
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Old 2008-04-24, 18:46   Link #9
Vexx
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Sounds like almost everyone in the scenario needs to have their head thumped with a large trout.
Both sets of parents and the girl...
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Old 2008-04-25, 06:14   Link #10
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I'm seeing these kind of polls again and again. Carefully crafted pseudo-alternatives to push people to choose the "correct" answer so one can tell one's friends (real or imaginary) "The internet says I'm right."

The typical elements are
- a sequence of unlikely events
- constructed dependencies ("Let's assume that if you do this then that will happen")
- protagonists acting irrational
- or simply vile
- forbiding to discuss any of the above
- finally asking for a white or black answer

I won't take the bait. If you want to discuss moral dilemmas or what you perceive as such than do it in another way.
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Old 2008-04-25, 11:53   Link #11
escimo
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The scenario reeks of implausibility.

Couple of things I can't wrap my head around are why would the guy leaving the company automatically bankrupt it, why the hell don't they just get married regardless of the guys parents, why is running an only option for the girl and what is the real issue with the guy marrying the girl.

If the girl sees ditching the scene as an only option besides marriage I'd have to say that I'm anti-girl guess that makes me pro-guy.
If the guy is a dickless little chickenshit not to put up a fight with his parents or disregarding their opinion, I'm anti-guy as well.
If the reason behind the parents objection is purely pride, I'm anti-parents.

One point that hasn't come up yet is that the girls parents really screwed over they're daughter. Threw her in a world of shit and left her swimming there.

The scenario is a bit out of a bad mafia-movie.
So no definite answer. I'm a bit of a romantic but this whole scenario is just retarded so, I'm anti-everybody.
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Old 2008-04-25, 12:25   Link #12
Xellos-_^
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Quote:
Originally Posted by escimo View Post
The scenario reeks of implausibility.

Couple of things I can't wrap my head around are why would the guy leaving the company automatically bankrupt it, why the hell don't they just get married regardless of the guys parents, why is running an only option for the girl and what is the real issue with the guy marrying the girl.

If the girl sees ditching the scene as an only option besides marriage I'd have to say that I'm anti-girl guess that makes me pro-guy.
If the guy is a dickless little chickenshit not to put up a fight with his parents or disregarding their opinion, I'm anti-guy as well.
If the reason behind the parents objection is purely pride, I'm anti-parents.

One point that hasn't come up yet is that the girls parents really screwed over they're daughter. Threw her in a world of shit and left her swimming there.

The scenario is a bit out of a bad mafia-movie.
So no definite answer. I'm a bit of a romantic but this whole scenario is just retarded so, I'm anti-everybody.
The plot came form a old Hong Kong Drama, about 10 yr or so years back.
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Old 2008-04-25, 12:27   Link #13
kayos
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Why not just get marry? What's stopping them? Do they really need their parents blessing that bad?

It just sounds too irrational and immature. Does she even love him for giving him such an ultimatum, either leave your parents or I'm leaving you. That doesn't sound very logical. I can't vote for either side.
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Old 2008-04-25, 12:54   Link #14
Vexx
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Aye, Slice_of_Life basically deconstructed the whole thing for what it is....

its pretty much as false as all the contrived conflicts in a "reality tv show (can we find something ELSE to call those completely contrived false situations using amateur actors?) and this is also why I infuriate poll/survey people because the questions are false dichotomies, stupidly constructed, or come in the form of "when did you stop beating your wife".

Oh, and the 3 girls the OP mentioned in RL should also be trout-slapped for such banal chatter.

Last edited by Vexx; 2008-04-25 at 13:37.
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Old 2008-04-25, 13:05   Link #15
Deathkillz
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I am pro Romeo and Juliet
Quote:
Originally Posted by Xellos-_^ View Post
The plot came form a old Hong Kong Drama, about 10 yr or so years back.
Lol...that makes sense. HK dramas love scenarios like these XD
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Old 2008-04-25, 17:26   Link #16
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Originally Posted by Deathkillz View Post
I am pro Romeo and Juliet

Lol...that makes sense. HK dramas love scenarios like these XD
HK Drama.

everything must end with a wedding.

tis true.

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Old 2008-04-25, 17:30   Link #17
Lucky_Day
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I have to say wrong. Love is far more important than money. Those who give me lovers or friends to maintain a steady income live very sad lives indeed. Although I am aware this is far easier said than done, I stand behind my decision.
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Old 2008-04-25, 19:03   Link #18
Happy_Chip
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Quote:
Originally Posted by escimo View Post
The scenario reeks of implausibility.
Oh, absolutely

But the kernel of the scenario *is* plausible, namely the conflict between personal individual choice, versus obligations to the surrounding society - which is what that scenario is trying to embody.

In this case, suppose a guy wishes to marry a girl his parents don't approve of? What should he do?

I suppose the guy in question needs to make his own decision according to his own values and convictions of what is right and wrong, and consider the tradeoffs involved.

And ultimately the marriage is between two individuals, rather than two families. When you marry you marry a person, not that person's family.
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Old 2008-04-25, 19:15   Link #19
Xellos-_^
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Originally Posted by Happy_Chip View Post
Oh, absolutely

But the kernel of the scenario *is* plausible, namely the conflict between personal individual choice, versus obligations to the surrounding society - which is what that scenario is trying to embody.

In this case, suppose a guy wishes to marry a girl his parents don't approve of? What should he do?

I suppose the guy in question needs to make his own decision according to his own values and convictions of what is right and wrong, and consider the tradeoffs involved.

And ultimately the marriage is between two individuals, rather than two families. When you marry you marry a person, not that person's family.
Only in western society. In Asian society, you are pretty much marrying the whole family.
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Old 2008-04-25, 19:37   Link #20
escimo
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The scenario certainly makes more sense knowing it's origin.

Anyway I think this comes down more to love vs. pride than love vs. responsibility. Unless we're talking about Jesus here I think irl the proposed marriage or even the guy ditching the scene wouldn't have such a profound effect on the family business. I'd say that if the parents are ready to sacrifice the happiness of their son because of pride I'd question how much they actually love their son. If the guy is ready to give up on it on his own because of his own pride and for the sake of his parents I'd question how much he actually loves the girl. And even if it actually comes to the question leave everything and make a run for it with the girl or ditch the girl if the girl is actually aware of this situation she should have just left without making such an ultimatum. So it all comes down ultimately to pride. And in the wise words of Marcellus Wallace. "Fuck pride."

I don't think that blood ties are such an issue here. I'd say that what the girls parents did cut those ties quite effectively. Ultimately there's not much more to learn here than this is a fine example of bad television...
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