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Old 2008-04-26, 06:08   Link #1
Last of the Uchihas
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What was the reason/s the Uchiha clan had to be eliminated and its future consequences?

State your reason/s and consequence of this action.

This is my take on this matter

Konoha's ethics, morals and values

As many of you know, the manga has taken a turn that nobody expected. The Uchiha massacre was ordered by non other than Konoha itself, well, at least the people responsible for running it. We have come to think of Konoha among the the other four great villages, as the best, not only for their strength, but in morals, ethics, values and justice too. This is the famed village that its known for their will of fire, which have inspired a lot of great leaf shinobis in its history. We have seen their greatness when it came save their own village, either from Minato giving his life to seal Kyuubi, to Sandaime giving his life to take out Oro or them trying to rescue Gaara, a person that was the key to destroying Konoha from within, which is now considered one of their allies. So how could they be responsible for something like that? I know, you all must be thinking that it all a lie, that Madara must be lying through his teeth. If you guys have been paying attention, you would know that Madara isn't lying, well so far he isn't, as he didn't mind telling Sasuke he was involved in the Uchiha massacre and he killed his own brother in order to get more power, among the other things he has done. But before we continue, i want to clear up something, Konoha does have the ball to do something like that. Just imagine this. If Konoha was willing to sacrifice a son of a noble clan in order to prevent a war against another village in order to protect their own village, then, they would certainly kill an entire clan in order protect their own village.

The foundation of the Leaf and the two strongest clans

We must first know the entire Uchiha clan history, and in order to understand that, we must go back to the beginning, before Konoha was founded. So far, we only know a partial of their story, but we do know that they came from a warrior clan who had the sharingan and exceptional chakra. Madara killed his friend and brother in order to gain greater power, and became leader of his clan. They eventually met a feared clan just like his and they were the Senju clan. According to Madara he fought them constantly, until he finally met their leader Hashirama, which one day would be known as the Shodai. Now this is an interesting part because it implies two things, Madara and Shodai mightn't have fought once, but twice, which brings me to this. If they fought or talked that time they met, then they came to an understanding, since it was stated that they joined forces and created the Leaf Village together, and it is equally important Madara's opinion about Hashirama, as the one he admired the most and the man who stood a the top of the world, just like him. How the Hokage position was chosen, is a mystery as there was no previous leader to chose his successor. It might have been a battle between the two clan heads for the position of Hokage, to simply, who had the best tool to form a village and knew the area well. From what i gather, the Uchiha clan was basically a nomad clan fighting off clans they encountered along their way, while the Senju were already established in the fire country. The reason i say this is because they are known as the Senju clan of the forest, and basically, the Leaf Village is surrounded by a forest and Hashirama being a guy that can produce waterfalls and forest, was the best person to keep the Hidden Leaf Village hidden from prying enemies!!!

Spoiler:


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Also interesting is how both person's powers complemented their village and country as the Leaf/forest is associated Hashirama and the Fire country with the Uchiha's fire affinity. What brought the end of their friendship/understanding is also another mystery, but sure as hell it wasn't that Madara wanted the Hokage position, since he and Hashirama decided to work together to create the village. I found one reason for the their partnership to have come to an end, and its due to Bijuus. I find it particularly fascinating that the two strongest men at that time, had the power to control Bijuus like pets, which clearly implies that both of them have come into contact with Bijuus before. Now, Knowing how powering hungry Madara is, its not that unlikely that he wanted to use that power to further boost his own power and continue conquering clan, and countries like he did before. It kind of reminds me of the Sasuke vs Naruto fight, where Sasuke left to gain greater power. This might be the reason why they fought, and by the looks of it, they might have used Bijuus on one another due to the way they reshaped the whole landscape of the Valley of the End. Mind you that i don't think the Bijuus hurt any of them since using a bijuu against them would be futile since they both control Bijuus like pets. It been stated that Madara lost that fight, while Jiraiya doubts what they were told about that fight. Having heard and seen some of Madara's powers seems hard for me to believe that he simply lost the fight, especially when we haven't seen or heard anything of Shodai's powers had against an sharingan user. But lets all presume that Madara lost, then why defeat an enemy and then let him go, if you fought him in order to prevent him from doing that in the first place? Look at the Sasuke vs Naruto battle. Naruto was determined to bring Sasuke back no matter what, even if he had to break every bone in his body. Also, something interesting to note is that the Leaf Village didn't crumble from hearing the news. I mean, their clan leader was just "killed" or "defeated" by your Hokage and they didn't start a fight with the Shodai and the senju clan or even more, they didn't leave the village in order to pursue their clan leader, unless they thought he was dead or a bad leader. To tell you the truth, it doesn't matter who won that fight as it won't have major consequences but that fight would bring the destruction of their clans, all because they have/had the power to control Bijuus like pets.

The birth of a new Uchiha clan under Harashima

We all know that the Uchiha clan from the past is nothing like the Uchiha clan from the present, well, what was left of them anyway. They basically weeded out any weak Uchiha in order to gain power and strengthen their clan, but this almost lead to the extinction of the Uchiha clan, which is why they were only a small number of Uchiha left in the present. Its under Harashima's orders that the clan undergo a new change, which is what we saw in the Uchiha Flashback during the VotE fight. He might have taken leadership of the Uchiha clan in order to bitch slap a couple of them in order for them not to kill each others. This change was not just done because he thought it was cruel the way they lived, but for the security of the Village. He wanted them to forget about the MS or the EMS, which why those two doujutsus were considered a long lost secret among a few Uchiha in the present.

The disappearance of the Senju clan

As you are all aware of, the Uchiha clan and the Senju clan were the two strongest and feared clans of all during that time, but for some reason the Senju clan disappeared almost without a trace during Sandaime's time. We know that Harashima's brother succeeded him as the next Hokage and that Shodai had a granddaughter and a grandson, so they weren't completely wiped out. I think the Senju clan was reduce to small numbers when they were fighting the Uchiha clan, especially Uchiha Madara, just like other Uchihas probably suffered the same fate against Hashirama's. Since this two clans joined forces to create one village, they might have also joined as a clan, which is why people have commented that Mikoto, Itachi and Fugaku look a lot like Harashima, although he kind of remind me of Oro too. Sure, some might have wanted to keep their bloodline pure, Tsunade's father might have been one of them. But what set aside these two clans from all others, and doomed them was that they had the potential to control Bijuus, so they had to be eliminated. Its no surprising that Shodai died shortly after the founding of Konoha, and that Madara "faked" his death or disappeared off the radar. What are the chances of the two most powerful shinobis dying/disappearing during the birth of Konoha? hmmm. I know people will say that Danzou and the two advisers were still harmless kids by that time, but this might have been beyond them, they might be just pawns, maybe Rikku Sennin's pawns or under his influence or someone else. The only reason Tsunade and her brother weren't killed might have been due to that they didn't have the power to control Bijuu like their grandfather and that they were under the protection of Sandaime as he was were fond of Shodai. Whether the extinction of the Senju clan happen just like the Uchiha clan or one by one, doesn't matter, they were killed due to their Bijuu controlling powers. Which bring to mind, why wasn't Yamato killed too? He too must have being under Sandaime's watchful eye ever since the the two clan demise.

The downfall of the Uchiha clan

When people say that among the ninja clans were two feared as the strongest clans, that goes both ways. Everyone feared them, from their enemies to their fellow villagers. Now, although the Uchiha clan was still a threat to the new establishment, they had "lost' their powers to control bijuus throughout the generations. The reason for ordering the death of the clan was due to the Kyuubi attack. They must have seen that an Uchiha was responsible for unleashing Kyuubi, as they could have seen the sharingan tomoes in Kyuubi's eyes. I don't mean that everyone saw it and live to tell about it. People that fought Kyuubi might have seen it, but they took that to their graves once they fell victim to Kyuubi's attacks. Probably Minato was the only one to have seen it and lived long enough to tell it to Sandaime, (as Minato knew there was someone behind Kyuubi's attack, which is why he sealed Kyuubi in his son) and Sandaime might have told it to his advisers, which then told Danzou. Knowing that Kyuubi was summoned intentionally, those four speculated that an Uchiha had done it. They couldn't kill the Uchiha clan as they were the force that that protected them, especially since Konoha was very weakened by the Kyuubi attack, which is why it took a couple of years in order for the village to regain its former powers to get back to business and take the Uchiha out. Further more, there might have been a conspiracy for the Uchihas to take over the village as they wanted Itachi to become the backbone that connected the clan to the Hokage and they council might have heard about that. We know that the one to carry out the order to kill the Uchiha clan was no other than Uchiha Itachi and Madara as his accomplice (although the one that gave the order didn't know Madara was involved), as to who was the one that gave the order is still a mystery. They wanted the Uchiha clan eliminated but they couldn't use their own army or it might have started a civil war. They needed the assassination of the strongest clan without making a scene and casting suspicion to them, and this is where Itachi comes in. He was the greatest genius history had ever seen and knew the ins and outs of his clan's strength. He had the stealth to make that happen, even more, he was a genjutsu master, which would allow them to cast genjutsu on the villagers around his clan household in order for them to be oblivious to what was happening. What was more perfect is that Itachi might have been under Danzou anbu root unit, which would explain the cold hearted part of Itachi, because even doing a mission to save the world or not, he still had to kill his parents, children, friends, ect. and we know anbu root have no feelings. We know that only 4 people knew the truth about the mission, and those were Sandaime, Danzou, and the two advisers. Although Sandaime knew of the truth, he didn't order it. We have come to know his character and his values. He didn't have the heart to kill Oro even when he saw with his own two eyes what Oro had done to his fellow villagers and the only reason he tried to kill Oro was because Orochimaru was attacking the village in order to destroy it once and for all. Sandaime obviously found out about the mission when it was all done. As Odlam said on one of his post, once Sandaime found out, Sandaime ordered the disbandment of anbu root and took away Danzou's position as its leader. Now i know that many people have been have asked themselves how come Sandaime didn't punish or killed those behind the order (although many have wondered why Sandaime didn't give them a cookie for doing that) The reason is obvious, he didn't have a choice. He couldn't blame them publicly or tried them for treason because it would cause a riot or a civil war. So even if he jailed them, the villagers would wonder why they were three important people were being arrested during that tragic day or week, since they would start speculating and connecting the dots that they had something to do with the Uchiha massacre. Itachi complied with his mission, but he spared his little brother because he saw in him hope and the one carry on his will. (such as Itachi passing his powers to his brother so he could have the power to kill Madara) You might wonder why Sasuke wasn't killed by Danzou or his anbu root when Itachi left him behind, and i think i know why. Itachi and Sandaime are the reasons for Sasuke survival. I bet my left nut that the one that fucked Danzou up was Itachi, telling him that he better not harm his little brother or else he would come back and kill him (lol, too bad Danzou wasn't an Uchiha or else Itachi would have had EMS.) and second, that Sandaime would also bring Sasuke under his protection as he was helpless to protect his family. There is no doubt that those three persons that know the truth were behind the order, as the manga further implies during the Sasuke rescue arc. The advisers and Danzou recommended that a fellow anbu root be enlisted in that mission, and we know what their real intention was, the assassination of Uchiha Sasuke. Also fascinating is the power behind the throne. Although anbu root was disbanded during Sandaime's rule, but they were brought back after his death, along with Danzou. Apparently, the advisers have that much power within Konoha.

What does Madara gains out of this and what will Sasuke's resolution be?

I can understand why Madara helped killed the clan, revenge for their betrayal. I can understand why Itachi accepted Madara's help in order to kill the clan, as it was to accomplish his mission. I can understand why Itachi left with Madara, so he could learn his secrets and kill him or pass it to his brothers to finish the job. But i can't fucking understand what the fuck does Madara pretends to get out of Sasuke. Many people have wonder this, even me. This is a guy that has no shame or guilt saying he killed his friend, his brother and even the Uchiha clan in front of Sasuke, so what the fuck does he pretend Sasuke to do? Many people think he wants Sasuke's body but apparently that isn't the case, or else he would have had it by now if that was the case. He also seems to want Sasuke to harbor hate toward Konoha in order to destroy them, but we know Sasuke won't destroy Konoha, just kill the ones responsible for giving the order to destroy his clan, the problem is, what will happen to those that stand in his way of revenge. Also Madara knows that Sasuke intends to kill him sooner or later, so what does he want sasuke for? My opinion, i don't even have a fucking clue, but i will fire away my theories. He either wants Sasuke's sharingans powers to manifest so that he could further obtain power by killing him or my favorite one. Madara's time is running out (he is dying of old age) and he wants to corrupt him to break him to fuck him up in order for Sasuke to lose himself (Too bad, it won't work, as Itachi already gave his brother a couple of free lessons about mind raping you to death ) in order to reshape Sasuke's personality to his wishes. He will want Sasuke as the next host for the Kyuubi. He want to merge the two powerful forces in order to create a new ultimate shinobi. A Shinobi who's power would be out of this world and a shinobi that would last for eternity. That was Madara's problem. He obtained the Eternal Mangekyou Sharingan, but he didn't obtain the eternal body. While EMS might have helped him live long enough, it isn't enough to live more than a 100 years, thus EMS or not, his powers weren't eternal since he would die of old age. He wants to create the Invincible Immortal Itachi was talking about, and since Madara's too old to withstand the procedure, he wants Sasuke to carry on his will or force him, so that he can keep the Uchiha name and power alive.

Last edited by Hunter; 2008-04-26 at 08:56.
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Old 2008-04-26, 09:23   Link #2
Zico
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No offense man, but you're jumping the gun. We still barely know anything. There's nothing but hints given to what might've happened, mostly from people that aren't considered the most reliable or "good" characters in the show. The actual amount of facts we have is very thin and leaves very little room for debate and mostly just room for speculation, largely unfounded speculation to boot.
Other than that, in our world real world there are tons of maniacs and mass murderers who sincerely believe they are doing good or doing it for some greater cause.
This is why when they speak they might seem truthful, cause they honestly believe what they're doing is the right thing, eventhough we don't. They are technically not lying, they are just telling their truth. This is more likely the case here but again, it's all speculation, we barely have any facts.
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Old 2008-04-26, 09:37   Link #3
Last of the Uchihas
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No offense man, but you're jumping the gun. We still barely know anything. There's nothing but hints given to what might've happened, mostly from people that aren't considered the most reliable or "good" characters in the show. The actual amount of facts we have is very thin and leaves very little room for debate and mostly just room for speculation, largely unfounded speculation to boot.
Other than that, in our world real world there are tons of maniacs and mass murderers who sincerely believe they are doing good or doing it for some greater cause.
This is why when they speak they might seem truthful, cause they honestly believe what they're doing is the right thing, eventhough we don't. They are technically not lying, they are just telling their truth. This is more likely the case here but again, it's all speculation, we barely have any facts.
this is a thread to post your theories and its all based on theories
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Old 2008-04-26, 11:11   Link #4
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@Last of Uchihas

wow you've certainly done your homework, a lot of reading couldn't read it all. i too am interested to see whats going on. but i can't help but feel that you are very relectuntant to accept that shodai defeated madara. even going as far to suggest it could have not been a fight that decided to leader of the village. I won't argue or disagree but it feels like its your loyalty to the uchihas who leads you to believe that way.

hypocriticaly, lmy loyalty to sandaime and konoha does not want to believe that they woudl order the massacre of an entire clan(thats genocide!) I understadn sacroficing one life to sav hundreds, thousands, but sacrificing an entire clan....

I'm hoping that itachi was never in actual anbu but in root. and he was brainwashed.
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Old 2008-04-26, 11:49   Link #5
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@Last of Uchihas

wow you've certainly done your homework, a lot of reading couldn't read it all. i too am interested to see whats going on. but i can't help but feel that you are very relectuntant to accept that shodai defeated madara. even going as far to suggest it could have not been a fight that decided to leader of the village. I won't argue or disagree but it feels like its your loyalty to the uchihas who leads you to believe that way.

hypocriticaly, lmy loyalty to sandaime and konoha does not want to believe that they woudl order the massacre of an entire clan(thats genocide!) I understadn sacroficing one life to sav hundreds, thousands, but sacrificing an entire clan....

I'm hoping that itachi was never in actual anbu but in root. and he was brainwashed.
Like I said in the chapter 398 discussion his emotionessless could be explained by the him being in ROOT because they said that after joing ANBU he started to act weird and they said that he killed his sense of self (this was said by Tobi) and remember the graduation exams of the village hidden in BLOOD MIST that is the same entrance thing in ROOT to make them remove their feelings. Danzou could of hated Shodai's idea to keep the Uchiha Clan alive after what they had done to the the Senju Clan of the Forest (which it is possible that is where Danzou's roots lie in) Danzou could of been trained under Nidaime or Shodaime but when he grew up he might have despised Shodaime (maybe the Shodaime died after his battle with Madara, because of the injuries Shodaime suffered but Shodaime actually made Madara flee, then crafted the statues and waterfall at the VOTE then died). Danzou blamed the Shodai for not destroying the Uchiha Clan and hated Shodai for dying at a young age as the Shodaime could have been Danzou's role model, anyway Danzou then ordered Uchiha Itachi to kill the clan under the Third and his advisors nose (maybe he tried to get the Third and the advisors permission to kill the Uchiha clan but they refused and he did it without permission), he was demoted and hid himself within ROOT.

But this is all just speculation
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Old 2008-04-26, 12:22   Link #6
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What about Itachi working for Danzou working for Madara ?
Danzou seems to be very Madara-ish (was even called a warhawk in the manga. Could have been his student in Konoha's early days ?)
I can't imagine Danzou's wanting the massacre if he isn't working for anyone. Besides, if Madara is the real mastermind, it could explain Sasuke's being spared.

This is a shounen manga. Which means the villains will be villains and Sandaime hasn't anything to do with the decision. Kishi won't throw away 10 years of WoF like that.
Root being Akatsuki's subsidary in Konoha (with Danzou having Pein's role) would work fine with me. Sasuke would go at Danzou like Naruto will go to Pein
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Old 2008-04-26, 12:56   Link #7
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My biggest problem with this discussion is the fact that I can conceive of no possible reason why Konoha (i.e. its leaders) would order the death of the Uchiha clan unless the Uchiha clan deserved it, and even then why you would kill all the kids is simply beyond me.

It couldn't be because of the Kyuubi (or even Naruto) because this is pre-existing knowledge. Specifically, Shodai (Hashiraba?) would have known of the powers of the Mangekyo and the EMS, and Sarutobi would also remember the powers of those Sharingan evolutions, so the idea of using the Sharingan to control the Kyuubi is already known and presumably well established (for the older generation). So, there is no reason to destroy the clan now for an ability that is already known.

Additionally, even if the Hokage and the ol'gang knew that Madara supposedly summoned the Kyuubi, unless the Uchiha clan had something to do with it (and if they did, then they do deserve to die), then there is no reason to attack the clan for Madara, or else they would have done it years ago.

Added to that, sacrificing one soul for the greater good is not the same as sacrificing an entire clan, especially when you take into consideration that it drastically decreases you fighting capabilities after already losing a great many Shinobi to the Kyuubi as well as the possible war with Cloud that ended with a Hyuuga's death.

That being said, it is beyond the realm of any of our current knowledge that anyone in Konoha that is not Orochimaru would have ordered the death of children, it is more likely, if they did order the destruction of the clan, that they asked for Itachi to only kill the Uchiha council, but Madara and Itachi decided to kill everyone instead.

And, finally, If the clan was to be killed, there is no reason what so ever to leave Sasuke alive. Even if Itachi decided not to take Sasuke's life there are still the 5 years before Sasuke leaves that the ones who ordered the destruction could have killed Sasuke (if Danzou was willing to kill Sasuke to prevent him from becoming Orochimaru's vessel, that means no threats from Itachi or Sarutobi would have stopped him). In the end, Sasuke surviving makes absolutely no sense if Konoha ordered the destruction of the clan.

---

Here is my speculation. Itachi thought he was enacting the "will" or law of Konoha by killing his clan. Specifically, while Itachi was a Anbu captain, he might have discoved some hidden S-Rank no-speaking laws (similiar to the Naruto laws) which made it an unwritten rule for the Hokage to never trust the Uchiha clan. Or, the law could be something along the lines that an Uchiha can never be hokage, or something equally as controlling. So, Itachi feeling put-down by his village decides that the only way he, or specifically his brother, can be free of the past is to destroy the past and start over (with Sasuke the kind hearted soul that he was). This workd quite well with Madara's statements.

Or, maybe Itachi simply wanted to make sure that Madara could not get...whatever he is trying to get, from anyone but Itachi or Sasuke, so Itachi killed off the clan to do this.

In the end, there are simply to many loose threads with any theory to adequetly say what happened.
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Old 2008-04-26, 18:31   Link #8
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Originally Posted by Last of the Uchihas View Post
What does Madara gains out of this and what will Sasuke's resolution be?

I can understand why Madara helped killed the clan, revenge for their betrayal. I can understand why Itachi accepted Madara's help in order to kill the clan, as it was to accomplish his mission.
When Itachi was saying Madara helped him kill the clan, I think he was lying to turn Sasuke against Madara. Madara wouldn't gain anything from the uchiha downfall. Since konoha is his enemy, probably he would be friends with his enemy's enemy.

Better wait a few chapters.
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Old 2008-04-26, 20:38   Link #9
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It would be cool if it turned out that Sai was one Uchiha kid but when his parents were killed by Madara and root anbu he was kept alive by Danzou and he was given a seal that seals both his memory and his sharingan eye from awakening. The seal could be below his hair, so he cannot see it. Well this is just in case someone in root anbu or Danzou himself didn't want to kill innocent children, but had to get rid of the clan.
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Old 2008-04-26, 22:43   Link #10
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This would be a way to introduce the new Root ARC! And this would also be a great way to set up Naruto vs. Sasuke. The avenger must avenge his clan by destroying the fire village vs. the future hokage of the fire village.

-Well thats my Opinion anyway

BTW: A lot of people might be complaining about this new twist but at least Naruto is exciting again.
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Old 2008-04-27, 01:43   Link #11
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Frankly, I don't care about the reasons. The fact is that Itachi killed his whole clan, and whoever ordered it is just as guilty. Obviously. I believe in taking responsibility, so Itachi's death was well justified, but I don't think making him a martr is right. After all, he could have refused, direct order or not. In any case, the whole situation to this day still makes me sick.
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Old 2008-04-27, 07:26   Link #12
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even if uchihas were to overthrow konoha from the very start that shodaime predicted this and ordered if something happens wipe out them in the sake of shinobi world?
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Old 2008-04-27, 14:30   Link #13
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even if uchihas were to overthrow konoha from the very start that shodaime predicted this and ordered if something happens wipe out them in the sake of shinobi world?
Completely agree. This seems to be the most plausible answer...even if it does not explain killing the children/women and not killing Sasuke, as well as why Madara was also involved. Still, this seems like it has the most promise out of the multiple theories listed so far.
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Old 2008-04-30, 17:57   Link #14
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hey, i dunno if this has been brough up, but...

in chapter 398, Madara says the story begins at the beginning of the leaf village's existence, and that the story begins over 80 years ago.

isnt 80 years abit...short? it would have made more sense if he said over 150 or something wouldnt it? i mean theres been 4 hokage's already, and the Third hokage was an old man already in the beginning of Naruto series, so 80 years is abit short.

I know he says OVER 80 years but it just seemed more logical to me that he should have said something like over 150 years or something like that. i havent got the timeline worked out but correct me if im wrong.

just a thought.
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Old 2008-04-30, 18:54   Link #15
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Actually Konoha is only about 65 years old.
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Old 2008-04-30, 18:56   Link #16
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and to think that j man vas 50 or so in the series...um it makes like he was 30? wtf?

edit bad math lol
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Old 2008-04-30, 19:12   Link #17
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65 years old? how did you figure that?

how is that possible? i know some of the hokage's died at a young age but still. theres been quite a few generations, from legendary 3 (who are reported to be 50 years old, i remember them saying this in the manga when they talked about tsunade's ability to look young when shes actually really old) to the Fourth training kakashi, then Naruto.

Konoha being 65 years old is abit young. can anyone explain the time line properly? cause right now it seems abit messed up.
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Old 2008-04-30, 19:46   Link #18
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Originally Posted by Pailong View Post
Konoha being 65 years old is abit young. can anyone explain the time line properly? cause right now it seems abit messed up.
Konoha is only around 60-65 years old. This is judged by information concerning Sarutobi's age, specifically the fact that Sarutobi is supposed to be a few years older than Konoha.

But, I do agree with your sentiment. Madara is only about 90 or so years old, how that can be considered immortal when he is only 90 or so is a bit of a stretch. It would sound better if Konoha was at least a 100 years old if not a little older, but instead it is only around 60 years old.
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Old 2008-04-30, 20:21   Link #19
Hunter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pailong View Post
65 years old? how did you figure that?

how is that possible? i know some of the hokage's died at a young age but still. theres been quite a few generations, from legendary 3 (who are reported to be 50 years old, i remember them saying this in the manga when they talked about tsunade's ability to look young when shes actually really old) to the Fourth training kakashi, then Naruto.

Konoha being 65 years old is abit young. can anyone explain the time line properly? cause right now it seems abit messed up.
It was stated in the Data Book but you could also roughly find out this from the number of generations born since the creation of Konoha. It's true 65 years doesn't seem much but from those who founded the village to Naruto there is only 6 generations.
Sarutobi is born a few years before Konoha was created, the generation of the Sannin is the first generation of Konoha shinobi born and breed.

It seems a little more than a decade passed between the moment Madara and Shodai first met and the moment when Konoha was established.
Soon after the creation of the village they fought over the policy of the village, Madara was defeated and apparently believed to be dead. Shodai also died around this time, possibly as the result of this fight (a few year after is also possible) and he named his brother as his successor with his dying wish.
Nidaime took over and created most of Konoha's institutions like the Ninja Academy but died soon thereafter at the beginning of the 1st or 2nd Ninja World War (it's unclear).
Sarutobi took over then and ruled Konoha during decades until he retired a little more than 15 years ago after choosing Minato Namikaze to succeed him.
The Yondaime however also died soon thereafter during the attack of the Kyubi and Sarutobi had to return in power until he died against Orochimaru ~3 years ago.

Last edited by Hunter; 2008-04-30 at 20:32.
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Old 2008-04-30, 21:10   Link #20
Hernyy
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WHAT IF Danzou was Madara's student and Madara brainwashes Danzou and tells him that when he grows older to try his best to get into the "council" and assassinate the Uchiha Clan because it will get out of control and take control of the country o_O
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