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Old 2008-05-07, 23:24   Link #61
Sinaura
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Madara could summon kyuubi while Shodai could inhibit and "imprison" it and their clans were constantly in conflict with one another. Looks like we're about overdue for an explanation arc about Kyuubi's true relevance to the story. Maybe it was the reason why the 2 clans agreed to a truce and the formation of the village in the first place, to keep this bad boy in check. Then politics happened as usual and next thing you know Madara is shooting up the place with his Kyuubi.
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Old 2008-05-08, 01:20   Link #62
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God I hope we get snippets of that fight... did you post the opening frame, Hunter? The first page?

Because jeez, that looks HOT.
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Old 2008-05-08, 01:51   Link #63
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Wow I wish Kishi won't just give us a summary but a full number of chapter of it.
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Old 2008-05-08, 01:55   Link #64
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The Senju & Uchiha Leaders both have the ability to manipulate the Bijuu as "weapons" these guys were surely incredibly powerful individuals with this at their disposal. The fight between them must've been hell on earth. with the shaping of the land and black flames destroying everything. The VoE was said to be created from their fierce battle. Madara got his ass handed to him there no doubt. Hashirama mustve supressed the Kyuubi and put the smack down on Madara. But with the EMS what type of powers does the First really have to defeat such a HAXMODE technique as EMS.
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Old 2008-05-08, 03:34   Link #65
Kenu
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mayhem View Post
Sometimes i feel by hyping up madara and the 1st all kishi is doing is trying to show how much of a bad ass minto must have been during his reign to be considered the best in konoha's history.

And if kishi is hinting through kakashi that naruto will surpass his father makes you really wonder how much of a power up might be heading his way.
Unfortunately, unless Kishimoto illustrates Naruto gaining powers towards being as skillful as his father Minato, the story won't be believable.

Even the numerous powerups that Sasuke received lacks authenticity. In one eye dojutsu then he can claim all of Orochimaru's powers. In one touch of the finger to forehead then he can claim all of Itachi's powers. It is a little far fetched.

In the end, Naruto will gain powerups for he will be the one who defeats Konoha's final enemy whether it be Madara, Pein or even the Kyuubi. However since Kishimoto is deliberately retarding the growth of Naruto, good story telling will suffer in the end as there will probably be an exponetial leap in power given to Naruto.
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Old 2008-05-08, 03:49   Link #66
Mr. Johnny 5
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Originally Posted by Hunter View Post
We don't know what became of the Senju yet and the power to control Bijuu was Hashimara's alone.Your second pic comes from the pilot, not the actual story.
Are you sure about that? Because i remember the same thing was said about his ability to control wood. But each member of the senjuu clan was able to do this.

The ability to control wood and the Kyuubi seems like a bloodline limit that has been part of the Senjuu Clan. This makes Yamato just another Senjuu Clan member in my eyes.

About the second pic. Yeah i figured that out but...i just thought it may lead to some clues..
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Old 2008-05-08, 03:56   Link #67
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Originally Posted by Mr. Johnny 5 View Post
Are you sure about that? Because i remember the same thing was said about his ability to control wood. But each member of the senjuu clan was able to do this.

The ability to control wood and the Kyuubi seems like a bloodline limit that has been part of the Senjuu Clan. This makes Yamato just another Senjuu Clan member in my eyes.
I do not think it has been confirmed that all the Senjuu, or even a great few, had the ability to control the Wood element. Additionally, the ability to control/supress bijuu seems to be confined to the Shodai only (and Yamato since he is Hashirama's pseudo-clone), otherwise the Senjuu would have never been killed off by the Kyuubi 16 years ago (it is unknown if Hashirama's ability is another bloodline or if it is simply a power that he gained over time.)

Realistically, this chapter did not actually reveal any new information about Shodai. At least it has been confirmed by Madara that he was actually defeated by Hashirama, so that should squash the Madara was faking his defeat rumours.
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Old 2008-05-08, 04:26   Link #68
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......why do i get the felling that Kishi is going to make Naruto the last Senjuu
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Last edited by OMG_Zerg_Rush; 2011-03-21 at 15:48.
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Old 2008-05-08, 04:34   Link #69
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Originally Posted by OMG_Zerg_Rush View Post
......why do i get the felling that Kishi is going to make Naruto the last Senjuu
that...i can believe...and its disturbing...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Johnny 5 View Post
But each member of the senjuu clan was able to do this.

The ability to control wood and the Kyuubi seems like a bloodline limit that has been part of the Senjuu Clan.
where did yopu get that information?each member of senju had wood ability?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Johnny 5 View Post
This makes Yamato just another Senjuu Clan member in my eyes.
yamato is a clone of shodai its just normal...and he doesnt have the same power levels...
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Old 2008-05-08, 05:37   Link #70
Mr. Johnny 5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tatami View Post
where did yopu get that information?each member of senju had wood ability?



yamato is a clone of shodai its just normal...and he doesnt have the same power levels...

Quote:
Originally Posted by james3wk View Post
I do not think it has been confirmed that all the Senjuu, or even a great few, had the ability to control the Wood element. Additionally, the ability to control/supress bijuu seems to be confined to the Shodai only (and Yamato since he is Hashirama's pseudo-clone), otherwise the Senjuu would have never been killed off by the Kyuubi 16 years ago (it is unknown if Hashirama's ability is another bloodline or if it is simply a power that he gained over time.)

Realistically, this chapter did not actually reveal any new information about Shodai. At least it has been confirmed by Madara that he was actually defeated by Hashirama, so that should squash the Madara was faking his defeat rumours.
Well it may be naive to believe so but...Senjuu Clan from the forest...they had special abilities right? I mean i dont think that Harashima (1st) had unique blood even within his own clan..with his members that were not able to mix water and earth element together to create wood. In otherwords i dont think the Shodai was the first and only one of his kind.

Anyway but i do think it was mentioned that Harashima's ability to create "wood" was a bloodline limit. And those are common within clans so that's why i thought about that. But the ability to control the Kyuubi...could've been unrelated to the Senjuu clan...so i really have no real idea's on that one. But i just thought the 1st was perhaps better then his other clanmembers in controlling it.
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Old 2008-05-08, 06:53   Link #71
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I feel this is where we are going to see Naruto shine as well as the fourth coming into play explaining the ying yang chakra splitting.
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Old 2008-05-08, 07:31   Link #72
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Johnny 5 View Post
Are you sure about that? Because i remember the same thing was said about his ability to control wood. But each member of the senjuu clan was able to do this.
This ability and the ability to use Mokuton was stated to be unique to him by an Anbu, Sakura, Yamato, Orochimaru and the Data Book so yes I'm reasonably sure.

Quote:
Originally Posted by El_Frenchie View Post
God I hope we get snippets of that fight... did you post the opening frame, Hunter? The first page?

Because jeez, that looks HOT.
Sadly this is a flashback and not a Gaiden so we're probably only going to see a couple of panel about it, at best.
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Old 2008-05-08, 08:19   Link #73
Souten no Seigyoku
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Remember guys that Madara wants to recruit Sasuke. This backstory/Origin story doesnt have to be true. It can be a load of BS designed to fool Sasuke into joining up.

That said, Ive hated the last 2 chapters because it has opened up many holes and inconsistencies in the story.

- Madara says it was all '80 years ago' as if that was long ago. Eighty years is not that long when taking 2-4 generations into account. The third was old. Jiraiya, the younger generation after Sarutobi was old. Tsunade is the grandaughter of the First. This makes it seem like they were all around at the founding of konohoa when they shouldnt have been. The age timeline doesnt fit.

-Uchiha superior. Originally they said the Uchiha were an offshoot of the Hyuuga and that the Hyuuga were better. Now theyre changing their tune.

The 80 years things is the worst of all I think. They never said anything, but we all indirectly thought Konoha was founded at least a couple of hundred years ago and now theyre saying 80 years. Thats not 'long ago.' Unless youre saying the First ruled for about 15 years, the Second for about 15 years, and the Third ruled for about 50 years (not including the hiatus when the Fourth briefly ruled). Which would put it at about 80 years.

To me 80 years is about a couple of generations. This would make it so the the Third was a child at the time of the founding when in fact he shouldnt even be alive. Orochimaru, Jiraiya, and Tsunade were probably born at or shortly after the founding then.
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Old 2008-05-08, 08:36   Link #74
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There is no holes here, only your misconceptions.
Konoha was founded about 65 years ago, not 80. We have known Sarutobi was alive at the same time than Shodai since the Chuunin exam and if you believe 80 years is the timespan for only 2 generation you are severely mistaken.
The Uchiha has always been said to be the strongest clan of Konoha, from its introduction in the first volume and all along the next 392 chapters, the retcon here is actually the introduction of the Senju as an equally powerful clan.
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Old 2008-05-08, 10:21   Link #75
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It is still sounding weirder as to why Madara helped Itachi wipe out the Uchiha Clan. Unless he means to contradict what he said when first talking to Sasuke.
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Old 2008-05-08, 11:02   Link #76
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I know I've introduced this idea before, but given how Hunter confirmed that only the First Hokage was able to use Mokuton, and that, at the time of the founding of the village, it seemed to only consist of the Uchiha and the Senju (and that only 65-80 years have passed since this happened), isn't it almost likely that everybody in the village outside of Sasuke and the Hyuga are the descendants/part of the Senju? And I mean, everybody (i.e. Kakashi, Jiraiya, Orochimaru, Tsunade, Naruto, Sakura, etc.).
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Old 2008-05-08, 11:12   Link #77
Hunter
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It's possible the Senju clan was composed of several families which split up as Konohanian rather than Senju after the creation of the village, I used to think it could have been the divergence of opinion between Hashirama and Madara and why Itachi said his clan was pathetic for clinging to their name.
That said while the Senju and the Uchiha were the two main pillars of the village there were dozens of clans already before the creation of Konoha, I think the alliance was composed of all the clans living in the Fire country.
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Old 2008-05-08, 11:56   Link #78
tatami
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Johnny 5 View Post
Well it may be naive to believe so but...Senjuu Clan from the forest...they had special abilities right? I mean i dont think that Harashima (1st) had unique blood even within his own clan..with his members that were not able to mix water and earth element together to create wood. In otherwords i dont think the Shodai was the first and only one of his kind.

Anyway but i do think it was mentioned that Harashima's ability to create "wood" was a bloodline limit. And those are common within clans so that's why i thought about that. But the ability to control the Kyuubi...could've been unrelated to the Senjuu clan...so i really have no real idea's on that one. But i just thought the 1st was perhaps better then his other clanmembers in controlling it.
well madara had EMS and the only one in his clan so far thats why he was leader of the clan , harashima using wood element may be the same case...because he can,he is the leader along with bijuu tech. I think he was , otherwise orochimaru wouldnt bother to use his genes to create yamato.

bloodline limits are common in a clan but its not a rule...maybe all hyuuga posses byakugan but not all uchihas have sharingan and so...

wasnt it stated that 1st was the only one with the ability and yamato is the only one who has the same ability?
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Old 2008-05-08, 12:36   Link #79
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Originally Posted by Hunter View Post
This ability and the ability to use Mokuton was stated to be unique to him by an Anbu, Sakura, Yamato, Orochimaru and the Data Book so yes I'm reasonably sure.
I thought that was before it was retconned into a mixed-element bloodline ability...
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Old 2008-05-08, 12:45   Link #80
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Originally Posted by Ryuujin View Post
I thought that was before it was retconned into a mixed-element bloodline ability...
I wouldn't quite say retconned (then again the Senjuu themselves as well as the Uchiha clans history of dominance are both a bit retconned), but the Wood element has always been implied to be a mixed-element bloodline limit. In fact, mixed elements (creating a new element) have already been said to be feasible only through a bloodline. So, it is not that retconned.
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