AnimeSuki Forums

Register Forum Rules FAQ Members List Social Groups Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Go Back   AnimeSuki Forum > Anime Discussion > Older Series > Retired > Macross

Notices

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 2008-06-03, 03:43   Link #201
CaptGloval
New Macross soon
 
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Macross 30 Emigration Fleet
^ I see the beauty of Spiritia Creation!!! *melts*

That was a good understanding of Macross 7.
CaptGloval is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2008-06-03, 04:50   Link #202
ReddyRedWolf
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Looking back at the franchise it makes me wonder if by Frontier's time sentient AI has already been achived by humans.

Sure there was the Sharon Apple incident but that was an abbaration due to her creators insanity of installing a illegal emotion chip and basing the personality matrix on the depressed Myung.

Indeed X-9 Ghosts are in service and also Brera Stern appear to use an improved brain interface.

Both technogies from the same era.

Would humans be accepting of a mechanical lifeform? They already accepted the Zentradi to their ranks.

Though there are military applications like turning a sentient AI Ghost to a dedicated and selfless officer like a Bolo. (A Bolo is a giant AI tank, think a talking Monster on threads.)

What would be so intersting would be an AI dedicated to culture and peace.

Imagine a ghost flying in the middle of a battlefield singing.
ReddyRedWolf is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2008-06-03, 05:12   Link #203
C.A.
Absolute Haruhist!
*Artist
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Age: 27
Well, this may be from another universe but its all Macross:

In SRW Alpha 3, Basara and Minmay prepared a small fleet of AI Excelion class ships(from Gunbuster), that carried sound energy speakers. Then the ships blasted one of the greatest songs ever, Nico Nico Douga's favourite SRW song, 'Gong'. The song is supposedly sang in-game by Basara and Minmay, but is actually sung by JAM project lol

The song then defeated the final boss of the game, which fed on negative spirits, energies and emotions. Its was directly affected by the hot-bloodedness of the song full of passion, courage and hope. Which your characters become stronger as they sang along.

I'd like to hear the real Basara and Minmay sing that song.
__________________
No longer a NEET so I'll not be online as often.
Ignore gender and kick sexuality to the curb!
I'm a big mecha fan, who keeps playing the SRW series.
When I say 'My god...', god refers to Haruhi-sama.

My art album updated 11th May 2013, Science.
Deviant Art: http://ca0001.deviantart.com/
C.A. is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2008-06-03, 10:58   Link #204
squaresphere
Macross Lifer!
 
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Sentient AI's are a dangerous thing. They would have to be able to "feel" emotion for "culture" to work on them. I don't know how that would be coded in programming.

If we look to the most technologically advance protoculture, they used designer genetic engineer at their highest levels.

I could seem them at one point creating AIs then using that as a spark (soul) to graft it to bio engineered bodies to create the zentradi/protodevilin. Later on, seeing that creating full sentient AIs creates rebellion dumbed it down and created the vajra.

Course now I'm dangerously close to sending this into the tech thread
squaresphere is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2008-06-03, 13:41   Link #205
FRS
Lurker on the threshold
 
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: France
Age: 37
If we go the AI route, why not going fully into it with AI controled battleship ? (as in the Culture book serie).
FRS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2008-06-08, 13:12   Link #206
ReddyRedWolf
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Heard of it but never read it yet.

Anyway here's the so called lost years before Macross 7 and why they thought the "Minmay Attack" is not an effective way of winning.


Source: http://www.macrossworld.com/mwf/lofi...php/t3358.html

Quote:
2010 ~ 2036
- During this period, several Zentradi fleets attack, but they're repelled by the UN Spacy forces lead by Commander Britai, as well as by the shock caused by the the Minmay Attack. Development of the VF-1R Valkyrie equipped with the SP-II Super Pack.

2014
- Launch of the interstellar emigration ship SDF-2 Megaroad, escorted by VF-4 fighters.

2018
- Lott Sheen born.

2019
- Komilia Maria Jenius born. (Silly game creators wanted her a 17 year old than 26. Though you could argue she's a 26 year old in a 17 year old girl's body. Inspiration for Klein?)

2032
- Dr H. Tachikahof passes away. He was the father of the VF-1 and VF-1R series.

2036: The Super Dimension Fortress Macross 2036
- Maria Jenius and Lott Sheen underwent pilot training under Britai's supervision. Just before their graduation, a Zentradi fleet unaffected by the Minmay Attack invades the Solar System and engages the UN Spacy fleet.
- Maria, Lott and the others cadets are allowed to fight in the light of the crisis.
- Maria battles and defeats Quamzin Kravshera and his underlings Jinna and Grimzo. The infamous trio manage to survive and to flee.
- The UN Spacy fleet defeats the so-called Neld Fleet
- Maria Jenius and Lott Sheen promoted to the rank of 1st Lieutenant. Maria becomes commander of the Red Horns Squadron.

2037: The Super Dimension Fortress Macross ~ Eternal Love Song
- Earth is under attack of the Zentradi Burado Fleet and of the Meltrandi Mokurendis Fleet. After an initial retreat, the UN Spacy launches a counterattack spear-headed by the Prometheus 2 taskforce.
- The Meltrandi Mokurendis Fleet withdraws.
- Meltrandi ace pilot Misty Klaus joins the UN Spacy with the rank of 2nd Lieutnenant
- UN Spacy cadet Kiryű Hayato is promoted to the rank of Major, and appointed CAG of the Prometheus 2 ship.
- Introduction of the VF-4 Siren, the "super" variant VF-4SP, and the funnels-equipped VF-4ST.
- The UN Spacy main fleet and the Prometheus 2 launch a combined attack on the Burado Fleet. The UN Spacy launches the Minmay Attack (Ai oboete imasu ka) and defeats the Burado Fleet.
Well if Mokurendis Meltrandi main fleet stayed the Minmay attack would not have worked on them.

Idols work on Zentradi, Genius ace pilot Rockstars on Meltrandi.

Vrlithwai didn't have Basara for his forces then. Though I'm sure Basara was still on Earth during that time.

You have to admire Supreme UN Commander Vrlithwai Kradanik though.

Facing two Zentradi main fleets , Neld and Burado, and Meltrandi main fleet, Leplendis.

Too bad the Meltrans left because of the Protoculture non-interference directive.

If they were all cultured they could uhhh... Help repopulate humanity.

I'm guessing Klein Klan, Nene Rora and Raramia Rerenia's moms could have come from this fleet. From Klein's line that their predecessors fought with Zentradi.

In fact the inclusion of fresh Zentrans from three more fleets could explain why some Zentrans prefer to stay giant in Frontier.

Not all of them came from Bodol Zer's fleet which most of it's people prefered to miclone.




Quamzin Kravshera survived his suicide attack and returned from space with new friends. Making counter measures against Culture Shock.

It's a injustice that he lived while Lap Lapiz died.



Quote:
MACROSS ETERNAL LOVE SONG – STORY INTRODUCTION (FIRST PART)

More than 500,000 years ago, a stellar race possessing an advanced civilization called the Protoculture was prospering. However, a schism happened between the men and the women. And this situation finally degenerated into a war. They used their advanced technology to genetically engineer giant warriors devoted only to battles. The male giant warriors were called Zentradi and the female giant warriors were called Meltrandi. Both armies of giant warriors keep fighting, with terrible consequences. Many planets were destroyed, and the Protoculture, who had created these giant armies, were totally annihilated. However, the giant warriors, who had been programmed only to fight, were left without goals in life and keep fighting and spreading their war throughout the stars.
Apparently Zentradi and Meltrandi fighting each other was not a fiction. (Perhaps the basis for DYRL)

Bodol Zer's fleet was a fleet created to specifically counter the Supervision Army threat of Protodevlin.

Though Bodol Zer's fleet has females in it, they are still segragated.

Guess the Protoculture lost contact with many fleets thus they were not included in the Protodevlin/Supervision Army war which surely would have them wiped out.

Though I find it hard to believe the Stellar Republic fell due to a war between the sexes.

Max and Millia had it right make love not war.


More game info.

Spoiler for MACROSS 2036 AND ETERNAl LOVE SONG CHARACTERS:



Spoiler for Macross Eternal Love Song mission briefings:
ReddyRedWolf is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2008-06-08, 16:27   Link #207
CaptGloval
New Macross soon
 
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Macross 30 Emigration Fleet
^Looks like a continuation of DYRL more than Macross "history" because of the Zentrans vs Meltrans thing. It also didn't factor in the Protodeviln as being a major factor in the decline of the Protoculture. But anyway, if it's declared as canon then I'll shut up.
CaptGloval is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2008-06-08, 16:42   Link #208
glyph
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Quote:
Originally Posted by ReddyRedWolf View Post
Heard of it but never read it yet.

Anyway here's the so called lost years before Macross 7 and why they thought the "Minmay Attack" is not an effective way of winning.
[/SPOILER]
Well, 2036 and ELS follow the non-canon DYRL continuity, doesn't it? Komillia is a teenage rookie in 2036, which is clearly off.

Incidently, Quamzin needs to change his moniker from 'the Ally-killer' to 'the Immortal'. The man simply refuses to stay dead despite being being repeatedly apparently killed off across series/games.
glyph is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2008-06-08, 16:47   Link #209
ReddyRedWolf
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
It has been said that Vrlithwai had to fend off two invasions and the Minmay Attack was doing squat. (Thanks to a certain Backstabber.)

That is why UN Spacy gave the order to the Macross 7 fleet to destroy Chlore's fleet in Encore.

Dr. Chiba did say Sound Force had to live up to it's history.

The Bodol Zer fleet ,which also had females, and others like it were a compromised response of the remaining Protoculture factions to combat the Supervision Army.

While the pure Zentradi and Meltrandi fleets were still fighting the old Stellar Republic war.
ReddyRedWolf is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2008-06-08, 16:56   Link #210
CaptGloval
New Macross soon
 
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Macross 30 Emigration Fleet
^Ah, now that makes sense.
CaptGloval is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2008-06-08, 17:07   Link #211
Tak
☭ автомат Калашникова ☭
 
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Neu Herzogtum Zeon
Yeah, the storyline portrayed in the games (for PC engine) isn't quite as non-canon as some believe it to be. Except the Zentradi, Meltrandi and the Supervision Army are still fighting their own 3-way war.

Because if they weren't... bye bye humanity.

Although up until now, the closest thing to resemble the Supervision Army are the Protodevlins.

- Tak (I guess we will have to wait)
Tak is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2008-06-08, 17:23   Link #212
ReddyRedWolf
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Well that would be fun to see in an OVA.

Imagine a UN Spacy Macross colony fleet of Human, Zentradi and Zolan with some cyborg citizens too stumbling in that war.

Clueless Zentradi on the left, Hot sexy Meltrandi on the right, Zombie Supervision Army in the rear.

You in the middle of the clusterfrack.

Add in the Protoculture's birdmen and Vajra for spice. Judging all of them are bunch of failed experiments.


Then a sentient AI Neo Glaug is sent out from the fleet.

War is stupid! LISTEN TO MY SONG!
ReddyRedWolf is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2008-06-08, 17:47   Link #213
CaptGloval
New Macross soon
 
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Macross 30 Emigration Fleet
What AI? We need Basara to take care of the Supervision Army and the Meltrans, while Ranka baits the Vajra. And since we're in a crazy situation anyway, Megaroad-1 should fold in to do Minmay attack on the Zentradi and Sara should take control of the Birdman!!!

Do you Remember Love? What 'bout My Star? Try Again. LISTEN TO OUR SONG!!!
CaptGloval is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2008-06-09, 09:09   Link #214
ReddyRedWolf
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Then a herd of Space Whales appear because they are friends with some Zolan and sense they are trouble.

Protecting the Macross fleet by ruuining enemy circuitry.



I believe someone said that Basara using speaker pods were redundant as fleet communications can be hacked for culture shock.

Speaker pods it seems were developed to counter unhackable communication systems a problem seen in the Eternal Love Song pc engine game.

A low tech solution to a high tech problem.

But they needed a guinei pig ... I mean an obsessed rockstar skilled pilot to pull it off.

Giving a customized VF-19 to boot.



In Macross M3, Macross 7 TV and Dynamite the UN Spacy appears to have a knack of finding Protoculture ruins.

All that info couldn't come from good old Exsedol.

Which makes me think Dr. Mao Nome had an influence on these expeditions. (Ep 10 Macross Frontier.)

Perhaps narrowing down where Sara and Shin could have gone.

But messing around the Protoculture's old stomping grounds more often than not tend to backfire on their faces.
ReddyRedWolf is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2008-06-10, 08:15   Link #215
Dynastya
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Hello all, I'm new here and just catching up on all the previous posts but I have a message for you:

1) to all the Macross fans who said Macross is better than Gundamn because it doesn't have a lone emo teenager going solo wins over all the opponents:

I wanna shake your hands. Hats off to you all


2) to people who like the idea if AI controlled fighters in war:

Imagine if in the real world we could really develop a computer which can drive tanks, fly fighters, pilot ships and fight a war for us so that no soldier would ever have to die again. Now add to that and give global superpowers the same AI technology:

Without the horrors of war (including the fact that both military personnel and civilians die in war) what's to prevent nations from starting wars at their whims because no person would die?


3) to those who want to bring back Megaroad-1, I think it would be a bad idea to bring back Lynn Mei Mei, Hikaru Ichijyo and the rest into the series again. But if the producers decided to place in a storyline where the Frontier or another group finds
i) perhaps remains of MR-1
ii) some descendants found lost on a planet after crash-landing
ii) or better yet, only some space debris of an exploded ship (with some parts being identified as part of MR-1 but without any proof that MR-1 was actually destroyed)

+ perhaps also find clues about where Sara and Shin disappeared to: like an abandoned empty derelic of a 50 or so years old VF-0 fighter far far away from Earth.

4) to the people who wanted to barf or commit suicide after watching Robotech (or better yet burn any copies of Robotech they found and execute the producers of that crap series):

Way to go! The Super Dimension Fortress Macross FTW! Robotech sucks.
Dynastya is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2008-06-10, 09:39   Link #216
Tak
☭ автомат Калашникова ☭
 
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Neu Herzogtum Zeon
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dynastya View Post
2) to people who like the idea if AI controlled fighters in war:

Imagine if in the real world we could really develop a computer which can drive tanks, fly fighters, pilot ships and fight a war for us so that no soldier would ever have to die again. Now add to that and give global superpowers the same AI technology:

Without the horrors of war (including the fact that both military personnel and civilians die in war) what's to prevent nations from starting wars at their whims because no person would die?
Sooner or later, people will begin figuring out how to disrupt AI-controlled vehicles, and render them worthless via viruses and other software based technology. When that time comes, and it will come hard n' fast, well, its back to humies again.

You will never rule out humans in a war. After all, the goal of AI war machines are to disable each other's war waging capabilities. Meaning there will be human casualties anyway, whether you like it or not.

- Tak
Tak is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2008-06-10, 10:07   Link #217
Dynastya
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tak View Post
Sooner or later, people will begin figuring out how to disrupt AI-controlled vehicles, and render them worthless via viruses and other software based technology. When that time comes, and it will come hard n' fast, well, its back to humies again.

You will never rule out humans in a war. After all, the goal of AI war machines are to disable each other's war waging capabilities. Meaning there will be human casualties anyway, whether you like it or not.

- Tak
I know, I'm just saying that wars are MEANT to be horrible, for a very good reason, less we start enjoying them.
Dynastya is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2008-06-10, 11:02   Link #218
ReddyRedWolf
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Well besides the X-9 Ghost fighter there was another attempt at unmanned fighter mecha combat.


The Neo Glaug unit.

Based on the Variable Glaug. Having a Battriod mode, Gerwalk or Glaug mode and a fighter mode.

UN Spacy built these babies after Moaramia Fallyna Jenius, Max and Millia's adopted Meltran daughter, tested hers in combat.





Unfortunaly rebel Zentradi also manage to steal it's design for it too.

Not the UN Spacy stole the concept of Zentradi Glaug first.

Much like the VF-22 was built along the lines of the Quadraluun.


Spoiler for UN Spacy Variable Glaug:


Spoiler for Zentradi Variable Glaug:



Incident of Sharon Apple aside there is a nagging moral precedent in giving full AI to fighting mecha.

Wouldn't that make humans no better than the Protoculture and their arms race.

Even if they built ones with a BOLO mentality.

Maybe that is why Macross Consortium opted in creating a civilian AI than a military one.

The X-9 Ghost was more of a drone AI than sentient.

Which is why they are still used in 2059.
ReddyRedWolf is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2008-06-10, 22:14   Link #219
aldw
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dynastya View Post
1) to all the Macross fans who said Macross is better than Gundamn because it doesn't have a lone emo teenager going solo wins over all the opponents:

I wanna shake your hands. Hats off to you all
Pretty much my sentiments exactly...

I do find that the newer series like M7 and Frontier tend to incorporate more mystical elements like Anima Spiritia than either the original or Macross Plus, I'm not sure if that's necessarily a good thing or not wrt the story presentation. I do know that those who preferred the Robotech approach would likely be turned off by it...
aldw is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2008-06-11, 09:05   Link #220
squaresphere
Macross Lifer!
 
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
hmm like I said earlier, sometime people just dream that there's something greater than the ability to wage wars and "just survive".
squaresphere is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 03:57.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
We use Silk.