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View Poll Results: Macross Frontier - Episode 07 Rating
Perfect 10 123 72.78%
9 out of 10 : Excellent 25 14.79%
8 out of 10 : Very Good 16 9.47%
7 out of 10 : Good 2 1.18%
6 out of 10 : Average 0 0%
5 out of 10 : Below Average 2 1.18%
4 out of 10 : Poor 0 0%
3 out of 10 : Bad 1 0.59%
2 out of 10 : Very Bad 0 0%
1 out of 10 : Painful 0 0%
Voters: 169. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 2008-05-17, 16:38   Link #201
Haesslich
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Originally Posted by ReddyRedWolf View Post
Then pray tell why he's a little pissed off when he saw Alto with Ranka the second time.

Plus he now questions Alto's relationship with both girls. Isn't that a little hypocritical.

Well one of the reasons probably that he's not making a move on Ranka is her "I'll kill you if you mess with my little sister" brother.

He tries to hide the lolicon fetish with a oneesama fetish. Mikhail's a complex guy with complex.

Klein being hot and adorable didn't help his preferences.
From what I could tell, if you're talking about Episode 6, he's calling Alto an idiot for ignoring Ranka's feelings, whatever they are. That, and the 'here, it's not like I'm inviting you (to a date)' way he gave Ranka the tickets. And that excuse about Ozma is one that Alto could be using to avoid a Ranka-link, if he's thinking anything that way.

ani_d: As for the 'radioactive earring'... may I point out that the space shuttle doesn't suddenly turn radioactive despite being exposed to outer space, the sun, and things like that for days at a time, much less the few minutes Sheryl's earring would've been out there? Hell, if that was the case, those moon rocks in the Smithsonian should be behind layers of leaded glass because they were exposed to open space for billions of years... and they're not. Now, if there'd been a Van Allen belt inside the middle of that Vajra ship, then I could understand the earring being suddenly radioactive. If it'd been exposed to the radiation for some days.

Things become radioactive in space only because the materials that get exposed to direct radiation for months or years at a time can occasionally become isotopes due to their composition changing as particles are randomly knocked off the nuclei... and even then, most of these things have half-lives of seconds or minutes, not years. Even then, not all materials will be suitable to become radioactive in this fashion - otherwise the interior of your microwave, which is exposed to microwave radiation, would be causing you a lot of health problems every time you opened the door of said microwave oven.

Now, whether he had the opportunity to grab the earring and stuff it in a small compartment in his belt or in the EX-Gear's another story. If he's lost it, Sheryl x Alto shippers should fear for a few episodes... since it's all she had left of his mother, and it's a LOAN. Now if it survived the Macross Quarter's firing... well, THEN I'll expect it possibly to be radioactive glass.
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Old 2008-05-17, 16:59   Link #202
Wesley84
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Originally Posted by encia View Post
Depends on power to weight ratio. Compare a real life example i.e. Airbus 380 vs Rockwell B1 Lancer.
You can't compare it since a gravity well and an atmosphere make a huge difference. It's because of this difference, there's the perception of small ships being faster than big ships, when it couldn't be further from the truth. Technically speaking, if Quarter can do it, every capital ship should be able to do it.
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Old 2008-05-17, 18:01   Link #203
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Originally Posted by Westlo View Post
Why wouldn't Bobby make fun of her and Mena Roshan laugh when she's an outsider to S.M.S? They aren't her friends... Really I can't believe you're taking this scene at face value, Bobby is clearly joking.. look at the way he said it and the hand motions and the exaggerated laugh.. which is why Mena found it funny. If he had quietly said something to himself like "oh she's pregnant" (and how the fuck would he know anyway) you might have a basis but he didn't.

And she just took a ride on a massive version of a Valkryie pretty much which was moving at full speed, if she's trained like Misa Hayase was than the type of movement you see in the first series is what she's prepared for. Not a 400 meter version of a Valkyrie moving at full speed.

yeah, agree.

I think Macross Quarter is pretty slick for a capital ship, after all, i've noticed that in every other transformable "ship" they never need harnesses. especially ones that has a grip that makes a woman blush.

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Old 2008-05-17, 18:43   Link #204
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Haesslich, can you say, detailed? lol Nice info.

See, if someone asks you to touch a fresh material that has recentlY been exposed to outerspace for a few minutes with your bare hands, can you honestly tell me you will do it? I wouldn't rule out that the earring has 0% radiation when we don't even know what types of radiation that Vajra ship has exposed itself into. Astronomy isn't my major but I do know the universe doesn't have a "radiation free area." It's filled with all sorts of radiation coming from everywhere. Just the fact that Alto and company can see what's in front of them already tell us light rays from somewhere can reach them. Things like that.

Even if the radiation wasn't the case, I still don't think Alto would be able to save it for other reasons I already stated. When it comes to life and death, people usually blank out and concentrate on survival rather than saving other people's property.
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Old 2008-05-17, 18:46   Link #205
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But Alto's not touching it with his bare hands, he's wearing a flight suit/ex gear so that point is moot.
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Old 2008-05-17, 18:50   Link #206
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dunno why you all arguing that the earrings are "Radioactive" or not.

The answer is simple, its Animu Spiritia-active material.


Yes. I WENT THERE.


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Old 2008-05-17, 19:03   Link #207
Haesslich
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Originally Posted by Wesley84 View Post
You can't compare it since a gravity well and an atmosphere make a huge difference. It's because of this difference, there's the perception of small ships being faster than big ships, when it couldn't be further from the truth. Technically speaking, if Quarter can do it, every capital ship should be able to do it.
If their thrusters moved the way the Quarter's did, then perhaps. We've yet to see signs that this is standard issue for most Macross-style battleships, or even the frigates and destroyers seen in series. Part of the issue is that while larger thrusters with more power can probably move the capital ship faster, there's also the mass to consider unless we're talking a non-reaction drive, or something that involves technology that negates inertia; that capital ship CAN move faster than a fighter can... but the fighter has better acceleration, as it doesn't have as much mass to move in the first place, which means a faster ramp-up to its maximum velocity, and more maneuverability as it doesn't have as much to work against when changing vectors.

That's why you'd want to cross large stretches of space with a capital ship; the ship can carry more mass for equipment, has more room to move around in, and has bigger drives to move it faster over longer distances without having to worry about the reaction mass it carries running out as fast as a fighter probably does, which gives it better range.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ani_d
See, if someone asks you to touch a fresh material that has recentlY been exposed to outerspace for a few minutes with your bare hands, can you honestly tell me you will do it? I wouldn't rule out that the earring has 0% radiation when we don't even know what types of radiation that Vajra ship has exposed itself into. Astronomy isn't my major but I do know the universe doesn't have a "radiation free area." It's filled with all sorts of radiation coming from everywhere. Just the fact that Alto and company can see what's in front of them already tell us light rays from somewhere can reach them. Things like that.

Even if the radiation wasn't the case, I still don't think Alto would be able to save it for other reasons I already stated. When it comes to life and death, people usually blank out and concentrate on survival rather than saving other people's property.
I probably would, if reassured it wasn't overheated or so cold that it'd get my hand stuck or frozen to touch it. The issue is not whether the Vajra ship is radioactive enough inside to cause anything exposed to it to immediately become radioactive - if this is the case, then Alto shouldn't be allowed back onboard the Macross or SMS Macross Quarter, as he would be as radioactive as the earring, or at least his EX-Gear and suit would be (and he'll be dead of the radiation shortly, if it's that deadly) - but whether there's other things inside the Vajra ship that could cause contamination like biologicals... and we've seen Vajra units moving around inside Macross Frontier's Island One, without anyone worrying about bio-contamination so far. Hell, I'd have thought there'd be a decontam crew working on the Vajra when we see the truck hauling it away in Episode 2's aftermath... but we didn't, either because it'd already been there and gone, or else they weren't worrying about that, even with things like water dripping from broken bridges. So either they're not worried about Vajra biologicals, or else they decontam him sometime between the end of 6 and the beginning of Episode 7 and they don't worry about it again.

Radiation doesn't LINGER - radioactivity 'lingers' because radioactive materials will continue to radiate alpha, beta, gamma, and other radiation until they revert to a non-isotope state... but just because the Vajra ship went through an area of radioactivity doesn't mean that it'll remain radioactive if it was in there for a short time, much less the inside having to be radioactive because the outside was exposed to it... else NASA would have a lot of radioactive astronauts buried in concrete silos somewhere, kept isolated from their families due to their fathers, daughters, sons, or mothers being up in orbit.

And as I said, 'whether he had the opportunity to grab the earring and stuff it in a small compartment in his belt or in the EX-Gear's another story'. But if he didn't, he'll be in trouble with Sheryl as well as Ozma.
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Old 2008-05-17, 23:30   Link #208
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Like he'd really be in trouble for losing the earring. Alto was a hero.

So it's safe to expose an object to outerspace (as long as it's not for months or years) and bring it back raw to the surface for a quick show and tell. Haesslich, I'm taking your word for it.
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Old 2008-05-17, 23:52   Link #209
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Like he'd really be in trouble for losing the earring. Alto was a hero.
He also lost an expensive VF-25 in doing so. And got his FIRST one shot up with its arm blown off with the second having a leg torn off and most of its systems visibly fried. He's an expensive pilot, who's basically trashed three VF's now - one per combat mission he's been in. Basically, Ozma's going to have to chew him out and use the 'do you think we're made of money?' lecture which goes to anyone who trashes equipment on a regular basis.

This is even more important since SMS is a mercenary/private outfit, which presumably doesn't get [strikeout]kickbacks[/strikeout]-- um.. special government discounts on its hardware, even if it's testing it out for the manufacturer. I'm sure that the manufacturers would have a few questions to ask of SMS if it's being told 'um.. we lost another fighter. Could you send us another half-dozen?' every few months. Especially with the way Alto's going through equipment...


Quote:
Originally Posted by ani_d View Post
So it's safe to expose an object to outerspace (as long as it's not for months or years) and bring it back raw to the surface for a quick show and tell. Haesslich, I'm taking your word for it.
And for the record, ani_d, we do just that every time we send a shuttle or other spacecraft up into orbit, or anytime someone makes a spacewalk. If just being up there for a few minutes was enough to make something radioactive, then Shuttles and other spacecraft would have to be trashed on a regular basis. Ditto astronauts who do spacewalks, because their suits (and they) would be dangerously radioactive.

Notice that we don't do that. Most of the time, you have to expose an object to radiation for a long time (longer than a few minutes - we're talking at least weeks or months, if not years) to do it if it's at relatively low intensities (example: water in the inner loop of a nuclear plant), or else at a very high level for a short period of time (example: dirt at ground zero of a nuclear explosion becomes fallout). It has to be exposed to high-energy radiation for quite a period to become radioactive itself, at least in a way which is dangerous. I'd be more concerned with biological contamination of Alto and the VF-25 which went into the Vajra ship.. which in turn means that Alto either gets anal-probed and isolated to confirm he's not carrying a Vajra plague, or else that they dunk him and the VF in a tank of something designed to kill foreign biologicals... or else they're not worrying about it too much, having some idea of whether Vajra are dangerous to human health beyond the macro level (aka: blowing your head off, squishing you to death, frying you with a plasma blast).

The reason Chernobyl was such a big disaster was because the meltdown meant the fission reaction was burning everything at once in the fuel rods, and in doing so was creating a lot of radioactive byproducts by irradiating the surroundings at very high intensities of radiation.. and burning the surroundings as well, which created radioactive matter that could be easily carried by wind.

EDIT: One last note. Alto AND Ranka have been been outer space, the former twice now, without a Valkyrie - Episode 2 had Ranka sucked out of Island One's dome, and hanging above it for several moments before Alto reeled her in, then sent the Valkyrie back into the dome as it sealed up. According to ani_d's theory, every Valkyrie should be severely radioactive or at least radioactive enough to be a threat to human health... as would Ranka and Alto. Don't forget that, when Alto ejected, he was inside a Vajra ship which basically placed a shell (the ship's hull) between him and 'outer space'.

Last edited by Haesslich; 2008-05-18 at 00:54.
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Old 2008-05-18, 00:04   Link #210
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Luca's sure to get yelled at too. Not only did he fly directly at a big unknown, he did so in the VF equivailent of a Christmas Tree. He was just asking to get shot down, while providing the enemy as big and obvious a target possible.
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Old 2008-05-18, 01:20   Link #211
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Originally Posted by Haesslich View Post

EDIT: One last note. Alto AND Ranka have been been outer space, the former twice now, without a Valkyrie - Episode 2 had Ranka sucked out of Island One's dome, and hanging above it for several moments before Alto reeled her in, then sent the Valkyrie back into the dome as it sealed up. According to ani_d's theory, every Valkyrie should be severely radioactive or at least radioactive enough to be a threat to human health... including Ranka and Alto, because they've been in outer space. Which is a threat even inside a Vajra ship, which basically placed a shell (the ship's hull) between it and Alto along with Luca's VF-25... just like being inside the Macross Quarter or the Macross Frontier isn't enough to protect them from all that radiation in outer space.
I don't know if you were one of the people (most likely not) who saw one of my earliest post complaining about Ranka being sucked into outerspace (ALMOST right at the vacuum) in episode 2 and was still fine. Ranka was quarter Zentradi so I bought it, but Alto was just wearing a normal ex gear which I've no idea how much it could've protected him. I do not know what happened there, so maybe someone can explain how the two managed to pull that off. Blood samples were taken from them afterwards probably because of that.

Did I ever say, "every Valkyrie should be severely radioactive or at least radioactive enough to be a threat to human health"? I said a raw material like a civillian earring which wasn't even tested for a potential radioactivity and wasn't customly made to withstand outerspace radiation (like what they do in surfaces of space shuttles etc) can become radioactive. Alto's EX GEAR has high chances of being radioactive but since he's not wearing a NASA spacesuit and he lives in 2059, that suit probably can protect his body enough to withstand radiation. I'd say a space suit from 2059 can pull that off. Should he miraculously saved the earring and placed it in his nonexistent pocket, maybe they'll have a way to decontaminate it or maybe they won't. The possibilities are there.

All this radiation stuff is making my head spin lol x___x I'm not an astronaut. The point still stands that there's a very low chance that Alto could have saved the earring aside from the fact that it's radioactive.

Also, is Luca's life that worthless that saving him in exchange for a VF-25 is a bad thing to do? That is just wrong. I'm completely on Alto's side.
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Old 2008-05-18, 01:32   Link #212
Haesslich
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Originally Posted by ani_d View Post
I don't know if you were one of the people (most likely not) who saw one of my earliest post complaining about Ranka being sucked into outerspace (ALMOST right at the vacuum) in episode 2 and was still fine. Ranka was quarter Zentradi so I bought it, but Alto was just wearing a normal ex gear which I've no idea how much it can protect him. I do not know what happened there, so maybe someone can explain how the two managed to pull that off. Blood samples were taken from them afterwards probably because of that.

Did I ever say, "every Valkyrie should be severely radioactive or at least radioactive enough to be a threat to human health"? I said a raw material like a civillian earring which wasn't even tested for a potential radioactivity and wasn't customly made to withstand outerspace radiation (like what they do in surfaces of space shuttles etc) can become radioactive. Alto's EX GEAR has high chances of being radioactive but since he's not wearing a NASA spacesuit and he lives in 2059, that suit probably can protect his body enough to withstand radiation. I'd say a space suit from 2059 can pull that off. Should he miraculously saved the earring and placed it in his nonexistent pocket, maybe they'll have a way to decontaminate it or maybe they won't. The possibilities are there.

All this radiation stuff is making my head spin lol x___x I'm not an astronaut. The point still stands that there's a very low chance that Alto could have saved the earring aside from the fact that it's radioactive.

Also, is Luca's life that worthless that saving him in exchange for a VF-25 is a bad thing to do? That is just wrong. I'm completely on Alto's side.
That earring's either rock and metal, or glass and metal... or maybe even plastic and metal - it would take either an intense exposure or very long-term exposure to even irradiate it enough to be radioactive by itself... and I doubt it's made of anything that would be a threat to life or limb. For the record, shielding against radiation is NOT on the outer layer of a spacecraft - it's good for deflecting radiation, but the outside's the wrong place to put it - it'd get chipped away by impacts with debris or else fried off the hull by re-entry with the shuttle. Most shielding materials are on the inside layers of the craft, where they're needed.

The outside of most spacecraft is composed of either either metal, ceramic, or a combination of both along with plastics. The Space Shuttle uses carbon-fiber panels as well as ceramics, neither of which are 'made to withstand outer space radiation' - they're made to withstand heat, and that's it. Shielding on spacecraft is restricted primarily to the crew compartment or any area with sensitive electronics. Basically, anything that would've made that earring instantly radioactive would've made Alto's suit radioactive enough to be either a threat to HIM or else to anyone around him... which means that he can't go inside the Macross Quarter, or any Valkyrie, and taking off his suit would expose him to dangerous radioactivity once he's outside the suit.

Luca's life is worth something... but Alto's trashing a Valkyrie on every mission. If he keeps this up, he won't be a pilot for SMS very long - since that means he'd cost SMS a few million every time he pranged up a plane, which he would do every time he went out. Once when he's a civilian is understandable - twice, when he's a new guy's understandable too. But the third time, hard questions will be asked of him... since SMS can't afford to keep buying new Valkyries every time Alto goes out on a mission, or the manufacturer will decide to give the contract to someone else to test out these things, since SMS can't be trusted to NOT trash their planes.

As for the blood samples, I think they were testing Alto and Ranka since they were the only two who'd directly encountered a Vajra outside of a VF and survived the incident. Afterwards, we don't see the NUNS being too worried about biological contamination, at least to judge by how neither Alto or Ranka were locked up in an isolation chamber after the fact. The question is not 'was the earring too radioactive to recover', but more 'did Alto have the sense to stash it in his EX-Gear before things got bad enough that he had to eject'.
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Old 2008-05-18, 01:33   Link #213
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Geez all this talk of radioactive this, radioactive that.

Whatever happened to supension of disbelief.

For that matter didn't Luca say it was a Fold reactor not a nuclear reactor.
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Old 2008-05-18, 02:00   Link #214
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Luca's sure to get yelled at too. Not only did he fly directly at a big unknown, he did so in the VF equivailent of a Christmas Tree. He was just asking to get shot down, while providing the enemy as big and obvious a target possible.
To be fair, Luca's job was to gather data of the enemies. The enemy ship happends to require him to get closer to analyse the data. If you ever played the space simulation game, Freespace and Freespace 2, the giant Shiva capital ships requires the player to perform suicidal feats(Going close proximity, through and hell its flak cannon barrages) to scan the ships to fulfill the objective.

So in a way I can understand Luca's intentions. But he was careless let his guard down that resulted in being captured which in part was his fault, though not being stupid.

Alto on the other hand, is recklessly stupid. Fortunately he seems to have a super hero's hot-blooded trait that lets him miraculously dodge the heavy flak barrages of the enemy ship when in Gar mode. Ozma's immediate improvision in ordering the Skull squadron to provide Alto support resulted in his increased survival chances as well.
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Old 2008-05-18, 02:29   Link #215
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To be fair, Luca's job was to gather data of the enemies. The enemy ship happends to require him to get closer to analyse the data. If you ever played the space simulation game, Freespace and Freespace 2, the giant Shiva capital ships requires the player to perform suicidal feats(Going close proximity, through and hell its flak cannon barrages) to scan the ships to fulfill the objective.

So in a way I can understand Luca's intentions. But he was careless let his guard down that resulted in being captured which in part was his fault, though not being stupid.

Alto on the other hand, is recklessly stupid. Fortunately he seems to have a super hero's hot-blooded trait that lets him miraculously dodge the heavy flak barrages of the enemy ship when in Gar mode. Ozma's immediate improvision in ordering the Skull squadron to provide Alto support resulted in his increased survival chances as well.
Yep pretty much, but on the Alto point. I'll lean towards that being the performance and mobility of the super-pack equipped onto the VF-25, when Alto was unable to evade enemy fire and ejected the super pack to gain a burst in mobility, he was starting to get hit here and there while charging to the Vajra ship and he sorta did get owned by two lesser bugs in close combat. Super Pack = Win

oh forgot, forgot to mention that trashing his valk isn't really negative considering he did recover Luca's Valk. In this scenario losing a valk, military ex-gear, recon equipment, and a trained pilot versus a single valk. Pretty sure its a null argument when you think about it logically.

Last edited by Zekori; 2008-05-18 at 02:42.
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Old 2008-05-18, 02:40   Link #216
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Originally Posted by Zekori
Super Pack = Win
Pssht. Super Pack is for noobs. :P

Look at Ozma. Full armored and yet he outrunned Alto in terms of mobility.
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Old 2008-05-18, 02:43   Link #217
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Pssht. Super Pack is for noobs. :P

Look at Ozma. Full armored and yet he outrunned Alto in terms of mobility.
Full armored Valk has missile spam.

That and Alto was owned pretty much in a close encounter, so much for him being the average teenage genius gundam pilot. Then agian, that's sorta better in my book.
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Old 2008-05-18, 02:45   Link #218
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oh forgot, forgot to mention that trashing his valk isn't really negative considering he did recover Luca's Valk. In this scenario losing a valk, military ex-gear, recon equipment, and a trained pilot versus a single valk. Pretty sure its a null argument when you think about it logically.
One Valk trashed is fine. Two... okay, maybe not so good. But he's done it THREE times in a row - and in consecutive missions. That's the problem, or may be a problem, for him - once is happenstance, twice is coincidence, three times is a pilot problem...

Seriously, the boy has to stop trashing his equipment. The way he's going, he's probably going to get fired...
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Old 2008-05-18, 02:49   Link #219
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One Valk trashed is fine. Two... okay, maybe not so good. But he's done it THREE times in a row - and in consecutive missions. That's the problem, or may be a problem, for him - once is happenstance, twice is coincidence, three times is a pilot problem...

Seriously, the boy has to stop trashing his equipment. The way he's going, he's probably going to get fired...
By my book the first time it was already on its way to being blown up (pilot dead), and it survived with just missing arm/s. Second time a leg and it got trashed really good, only the third time was the valk self-destruct. But now that SMS was considered apart of the military, I'm sure by normal standards they can put the finger on the military for expenses or blame.

Last edited by Zekori; 2008-05-18 at 02:50. Reason: edit: finger :) not finder
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Old 2008-05-18, 02:54   Link #220
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Originally Posted by Haesslich View Post
One Valk trashed is fine. Two... okay, maybe not so good. But he's done it THREE times in a row - and in consecutive missions. That's the problem, or may be a problem, for him - once is happenstance, twice is coincidence, three times is a pilot problem...

Seriously, the boy has to stop trashing his equipment. The way he's going, he's probably going to get fired...
Well Alto hasn't reach that status of a Protodevlin whose Valkyrie derived mech always gets blown by Gamlin.
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