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Old 2008-07-02, 02:05   Link #2161
Comartemis
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Join Date: Mar 2008
Age: 27
Ah well. Just one more thing to fix in Comacanon.

Incidentally, Asuna's preferred combat style is shaping up to look just like some of Nero's techniques in DMC4; wild, insane, and completely out-of-control monstrous strength and impressive speed backing up a Big Fraggin' Sword she wields one-handed like an oversized toothpick.
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Old 2008-07-02, 02:10   Link #2162
Keroko
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Join Date: Jan 2007
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Evangelion Xgouki View Post
LARP sounds kinda interesting. Dunno if I'd actually participate though .
Your loss, its a weekend of good fun playing around, creating scuffles, backstabbing people, being a merchant, you name it, and you can do it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Evangelion Xgouki View Post
Dragon-boy?
I have a thing for dragons.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Evangelion Xgouki View Post
And to beat each other with foam sticks and such
Yup, and fun it is.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tempest Dynasty View Post
Alright then. Here we go.

------------------------------------------

What is it you seek?

Vengeance?

Restitution?

Absolution?

Salvation?

Seekers of the Truth, fear not what the past hides; fear not what the present shows; fear not what the future brings.

And rage against the dying of the light.


Mahou Shoujo Lyrical Nanoha: The Gospel of Judas

Spoiler for Chapter 1: The Darkness:
Hmm, do you mind if I use an editted version of Noland for Fall of an Empire? The way he is now he is kinda hard to put into my story...

Yuuno seems pretty OOC in this chapter, though. I can't see him go all loko like that. I am curious as to what occured to make Chrono so broken, though I have a hunch...

Quote:
Originally Posted by ghazghkull View Post
Hey guys, do you guys mind giving my an opinion on this summary of this original fiction I'm working on, just based on what you've read here?

All I want to know is if it sounds too generic, or if it sounds interesting enough that you'd actually want to give it a read.

Spoiler for Summary:
Not enough information for me to want to give it a read.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kha View Post
More like its already been done:

Helm -- [Mask of Pennance]
Shoulder -- [Justice Bearer's Pauldrons]
Chest -- [Breastplate of Many Graces]
Belt -- [Girdle of Many Blessings]
Legs -- [Cassock of the Loyal]
Boots -- [Boots of the Watchful Heart]
Bracers -- [Virtue Bearer's Vambraces]
Gloves -- [Life Bearer's Gauntlets]

This imitation set is a 70s list, but its all blues from normal and heroics, and the color scheme is nowhere as epic as Judgement itself. Lastly, it's a healing set; no way am I wearing that to tank Heroics, especially when it has less +spell damage than Judgement.
Bleh. Healing set. Well, I'd go after it for the looks, maybe.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Comartemis View Post
Alright ladies and gents, welcome to my attempt at sorting out the mess that is the linker core. As with so much that Seven Arcs has given us in this series, the linker core is an essential part of the magic systems we see in-series, yet there is little to nothing said about it beyond its’ status as the source of a mage’s power. This is my attempt at putting the matter to rest with a hypothesis based on what we see in-series.
Sounds like a plan, I'll go past each individual point, so I'll reply in a spoiler for lenghth.

Spoiler for Linker Core Discussion:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kagerou View Post
*raises hand* Can I use this for Alpha?
If you want to, yes. Alpha Syn was designed for close combat though, not ranged.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JINNSK View Post
I have finished my homework...Excuse my lazy translation.
Basically remaining part mentions Hayate's character.So,I'm not sure whether there is new information for you...



Spoiler for Original:


Spoiler for translation:
*clucks tongue* My throat feels dry after reading this. It seems that even the creator himself feels like shafting Hayate.
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Old 2008-07-02, 02:13   Link #2163
ghazghkull
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Keroko View Post
Not enough information for me to want to give it a read.
Unfortunately, FF.net and FP.net do not give enough character limits for me to write up a descent summary T.T
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Old 2008-07-02, 02:17   Link #2164
Saint X
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kha View Post
Chakra rivers, infused nervous systems, magic circuits... They are all the same thing, and in other for magical damage to actually work (or something to recognize and avoid damage), there must a piece of the system running through the whole body.
I and probably a lot of others have long said that there is a "Magic Circuit" running in the body for mana puposes

*whistles*

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kha View Post
Gah Hayate really went for the Priest route, no wonder she kinda sucks in melee/physical damage. Even her squishiness makes sense now.

Still doesn't remove the notion that she can combat with instant spells and suitable defences. Like a Shadow Priest.
More like a Caster-Type Character

My Personal Character in Rising Force is a Mystic with really sucks in melee and ranged attack but can cast spells and spam them so much that anyone caught offguard will die- but with weak armor in comparison to warrior types and no resistance like ranged types but it's all in the way you handle

Spoiler for Random Rant:


and some dodge points will do too

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kha View Post
And once again, whether we like it or not, canon follows the specifications of a game. Party mechanics, spell versus physical damage specialization, recharging mana with items or just sitting there, barrier jackets that work on stats alone, allowing Plate-ranked bikinis to have more defensive power than a full-body robe; this is the reality of canon we have to face as much as it doesn't make sense elsewhere. Suspension of Disbelief anyone?

And it's even more keikakudoori for my Codices!!! ^_^
I have long believed that the Nanoverse is a sort of Huge MMORPG with it's own fixed sytems of devising everything

if you were in IRC when i was mumbling about "Classes" of Mid/Velkan Users you would have understood

that means that there will be melee type Midchildans and ranged Velkans

*waggles finger to parties concerned*

Don't even object!
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Old 2008-07-02, 02:28   Link #2165
Keroko
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Comartemis View Post
I had thought of the linker core being the center of a magical cardiovascular system (magic circuits!) similar to the chakra rivers present in Naruto characters, I just forgot to mention it.

And before anyone asks, no I'm not going to start porting Naruto characters into Comacanon just because I have characters using ki/chi/chakra/whatever, alright?
The existence of magic circuits is neither confirmed nor denied as far as I know, so since it doesn't contradict anything, I see no reason not to use them.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Comartemis View Post
"Linked mana"? As in mana being used in spells or mana ready to be used in spells, i.e. a personal mana pool?
Mana used in spells, hence why an AMF (Anti Magilink Field) can disrupt spells, as they disrupt the links holding the spell together.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Comartemis View Post
I remember the DVD booklet mentioning that mages had to eat more than most people, but I chalked this up to their cores--being muscles--consuming a lot of physical energy. Eating food just for the purpose of replenishing mana sounds like something out of an RPG.
Actually, the manga goes into this, but Teana and Caro eat as much as an average hungry human would, while they are surprised at how much Erio, Caro and Ginga eat (though this scene is mostly comical, concidering they eat more then their stomachs could possibly hold) however, the core that we can remember is that they say that the ones doing frontal assault burn lots of callories.

So what is the difference between Caro/Teana and Erio/Subaru/Ginga? The answer is that the later use Belkan magic, and physical reinforcement. In other words: They push their own muscles (the regular ones) beyond what normal humans are capable off. I'm sure that burns a lot of callories.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kha View Post
And once again, whether we like it or not, canon follows the specifications of a game. Party mechanics, spell versus physical damage specialization, recharging mana with items or just sitting there, barrier jackets that work on stats alone, allowing Plate-ranked bikinis to have more defensive power than a full-body robe; this is the reality of canon we have to face as much as it doesn't make sense elsewhere. Suspension of Disbelief anyone?
Never had any problem willing it in the first place.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ghazghkull View Post
Unfortunately, FF.net and FP.net do not give enough character limits for me to write up a descent summary T.T
Yeah, the limits they enforce are criminal, really. -_-
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Old 2008-07-02, 02:31   Link #2166
Tempy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Keroko View Post
Hmm, do you mind if I use an editted version of Noland for Fall of an Empire? The way he is now he is kinda hard to put into my story...
By all means, go ahead.

I said this in IRC, but I'll repeat it here. My objective with The Gospel of Judas is not to squeeze Noland into one of the already existing fanons. I'm writing The Gospel primarily as sort of showcase for Noland, to show everyone how I feel Noland should behave and act, in addition to flesh out his history. I have a fear that should he be used as of now, he may be inaccurately characterized.

This doesn't mean that The Gospel is THE definitive history that Noland is based on. As I had said long ago, I made his history hazy so as to fit into other fanons better. With The Gospel, I can say, "This is Noland. This is who and what he is."

The Gospel storyline itself will eventually branch of to a point where it is roughly 30% compatible with other fanons -- it'd be easier to jump into my fanon rather than have The Gospel try to blend in. In fact, by the 3rd chapter, it will have become its own independent fanon, separate from the rest. Think of it as my own spin on Noland's history, how he fell and become the Knight of Calamity.

It can be, but doesn't have to.

EDIT: Dammit FF.net GIVE ME MY TILDES. I WANT TILDES~!
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Old 2008-07-02, 02:33   Link #2167
Keroko
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Duly noted, and thanks.
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Old 2008-07-02, 02:45   Link #2168
Wild Goose
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I may use Noland for a non-canon one-shot...in which Franz gets pwnt by Meido Guy Noland.

Now that I consider it about the only time canonically Franz has gone up against anyone in OC and not lost was during the events of BelkaRed vs AbareHunter, though Glen and Naomi combopwnt him before he could do too much damage there... Garh, poor Franz, you were once a haxxed and powerful Stu, and now even your own creator amuses himself by toying with you.
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Old 2008-07-02, 02:57   Link #2169
Tk3997
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Quote:
Originally Posted by USB500 View Post
On related note, I've been tempted to do a OC/Gensokyo crossover fic, but I'm not sure if I can handle the madness
You mean like OC writers or OC characters? Oddly enough either could work... Though the later might be even funnier.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dkellis View Post
In Lyrical Babel, the units I'm writing about are specifically instructed to be very, very careful around infrastructure. If you damage it, you'll have to explain why, in triplicate.

This is because they fight in populated areas, and someone's going to have to pay for the damage. And yes, this results in several cases of the protagonists getting tactically hamstrung.

I'm specifically intending a unit that can take down enemies with as little flash, impressiveness, and collateral damage as possible. The pinnacle of Rancer's achievements (pre-Babel) is that he managed to negotiate a surrender, without any violence or magic usage whatsoever.
Understandable, but don’t take it too far and try to apply totally real world limits as it won’t work in the setting. Acceptable force is determined by the suspects actions if the suspect can use higher level magic and is doing so then responding in turn is acceptable even if property damage is possible, nigh likely, to result. This is most true if the target is already wanted for violent offenses for example if someone shot up there work place then jumped in there car and fled as the cops arrived the police WILL chase them to the ends of the earth even if they wreck a half dozen civilian cars or buildings in the process and very few people are going to complain.

High speed purists in general are a fair model of this kind of thing there a balance to be found some areas are like the Wild West. They’ll chase anyone and hang out windows blowing out tires with shotguns and such while others while others aren’t allowed to chase anyone. Neither is ideal the former is dangerous and can turn minor offenses into huge messes, but the later is unworkable I’ve heard of areas that were so strict that police weren’t allowed to even follow a speeder if the failed to yield when the lights came on, so basically you could dodge any ticket by just going faster. Swat can have similar issues were it can be tricky to decide when to talk or keep talking and when to start shooting.

That said the biggest thing though is that if a suspect is actively threatening the locals or the officers lives they WILL fight back with equal force as no agency can reasonably ask its members to be martyrs. When that threshold is reached though is often at the officer involved discretion. Still don’t fall into some absurd trap were bad guys are shooting at the heroes and they won’t fight back because they don’t want to damage a storefront or they take a hostage and they just let them go without a struggle or something. (This is the WORST possible thing to do by the way.)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Evangelion Xgouki View Post
With no end in sight...
The internet has divided weirdness by zero it can never be stopped now...

Quote:
LARP sounds kinda interesting. Dunno if I'd actually participate though .
You'd never catch me in public with sword end of story.

Quote:
And yes, Airsoft is apparently very serious business
Very very acutally that clip acutally takes place on a real military training ground which they basiclly rent out for a few days.

Quote:
I guess. Controlling the course of events a bit, huh?
There are those that just go with the flow of life and then there are those that grab it by the throat and tell it to start heading where they want it to go. I like to think of myself as one of the later.

Quote:
Yea...I usually got stuck being the healer/medic when I played games with my friends cause none of them wanted to be it and I got stuck with it . So now I find myself to be a superb healer in WoW
See I actually do it by choice I like playing team doctor. Just don't piss me off: "Oh opps sorry I was a LITTLE late on that heal was out of mana! yeah that's it..." You'll be sorry as Team Medic I control life and death you best remember that lug heads!

Quote:
Not going to answer that...
Wuss.

Quote:
Sych an awesome series with so many priceless quotes
Bow-Chicka-Bow-Wow!

Quote:
Dragon-boy?
He seems to have an unhealthy obsession with them and it was late and it popped into my head on reflection it IS pretty lame.

Quote:
Mmm...sugar
Hmm indeed... *wanders off looking for sweet things*

Quote:
Fire is good
Indeed, fire VERY good... err.

Quote:
...definitely not touching this one
still a Wuss.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Keroko View Post
You are, but adding 'manly hot' to genderbending is ending up with some very disturbing images.
That didn't come off quite as it should have (I hadn't splet in quite awhile while typing.) what I really meant was that he made it sound like I wasn't allowed to be hot as either a male OR female.

Quote:
My standard description for LARPing is "LARP is just an excuse for grown ups to go play the games they used to play as kids again" and I'm still sticking to that description.
Sounds about right of coruse allot of the stuff we did as kids WAS silly.

Quote:
That is, without a doubt, one of the most awesome LARP sessions I have ever seen. They even have burning buidings and stuff!
I wouldn't call it that to those guys faces most of them being ex-military you're liable to get a 3mm plastic BB to the eye.

Quote:
"Projectile speed is revelevant to what is cool in which scene."

Looks like the Laws of Animation are valid for games as well.
That's one of those things I've always disliked really, but I guess it's a good thing I'm writing and not drawing so I don't have to worry about this.

Quote:
Oh, poor innocent Tk. Try to read some of the doujinshi next time, I'm sure you'll find them... interesting.
No I very much doubt that sorry but bare man ass does nothing for me, but nor dose it offend me since I’m secure in my masculinity and heterosexuality. If that’s the kind of thing you’re into though there totally nothing wrong with that though. See what I did there implying you're gay I'm so clever! =p

Quote:
Many things, all I need is the time to put them on paper.
Which judging by the amount you've acutally produced recently you must not have much time. (yeah I'm one to talk recently.)

Quote:
Raiden wasn't exactly the best of heroes, probably the reason.
"Not exactly" total suckage would be closer...

Quote:
then I'll drop it on my part as well.
Yes let's all get along thread has been going nicely for awhile now no reason to fuck it up when nothing is even at stake. It's not like someone is purposing and OC that can lift and hurl tractor trailers or something.

Quote:
Misconception. Your average LARP takes 3-4 days, and are held once, maybe twice a year. Gaming on your PC is a far larger timesink by comparison.
Well yeah I suppose if you only do it once... though you could be taking an acutal vacation instead. Oh who am I kidding I hate vacations I'd rather waste the entire time doing nothing but watching TV and playing games then acutally going anywhere.

Quote:
This is entirely true though, and we take pride in it most times.
Embrace the nerdiness!

Quote:
I have yet to see a LARP that had Haste on their spell-list, but invisibillity is possible, though it depends on the quallity and sportiveness of your fellow players.
Yeah I can see how great that would work...

Spoiler for IGNORE ME!!!:



Quote:
I guess the writers aren't exactly comfortable with writing ranged characters either, seeing how they all get pushed into melee all the time.
Most amine writers aren't in my experience since they tend to lack any real military and Japan also has very strict gun laws so most of them likely have even less experience with such things then even an average American. Sword fighting and martial arts and such is more acceptable though and more of them probably have at least SOME experience with it so they can make it seem somewhat more plausible.

Quote:
Allright, so here's an idea. Say Vivio and Syn take a mage test similar to Teana and Subaru in the first episode, I'd have Syn keep a high ground, possibly staying on top of the buildings wherever possible, in order for her to be able to snipe everything from a long range, is this a good strategy?
Reasonable, but also keep in mind that to always have an escape route, several if at all possible and don't stay in one area too long. Keep moving after a few shots if it's feasible and don’t expose yourself either try to find some place high but that covers or at least conceals you. If you can see them, then they can see you but you want to find a position that makes it take as long as possible for that to happen. This is important because while being high gives you a good field of view and lets you fire on more targets being high also means that more enemies can see YOU and return fire if you’re quickly located.

So basically yeah get high, but don’t stand on the ledge of a roof top perfectly silhouetted against the sky or something. Actually you might want to avoid the roof and fire from windows on a floor or two below moving between them, that would keep you concealed from fliers overhead too.

Quote:
Hmm, well about tracing... whenever characters want to talk in private they seem to use telepathy, like how Teana and Subaru talk telepathically right in front of their S-rank examinators, who show no sign of detecting it in any way.

Guess that means telepathy is about as private as it comes.
Probably if you want it too be at least. I'd say it can be focused for one person or broadcast widely for anyone nearby to hear.

Quote:
Most sword fights are filled with standoffs, though the conversating part rarely happens (it does, but rarely).
Well if they last beyond the first couple of moves at least... That's another thing with sword fights though in allot of ways they're less forgiving then gunfights. You slip up and the other guy is RIGHT there to make you pay and it's rather likely the that any hit is going to be extremely grievous.

Distance in combat is also basically time, time to react and time to change plans if something isn't working. Reduce the distance and reduce the time and margin for error this is another advantage to fighting at longer ranges.

Quote:
One of the reasons I'm glad they made the Wolkenritter knights instead of Samurai.
Indeed.

Quote:
Like you, I had a nice lengthy post detailing why a scythe, even weightless, would make a crappy melee weapon. Then I kicked myself because I was doing exactly what I critisized others were doing: Taking a show about girls that shoot lazers in cute outfits and looking at it too realistically. I'll stop doing that now.

'it's a magical weapon, so it works' :3
Well whatever.

Quote:
Realism aside, Belkan weaponry focusses on Reinforcement, which would seem easier with weaponry that is already physically present, and their weapons suffer less from the downsides of AMF (I can already see Mid mages furiously try to power their energy blades in an AMF while the Belkans close in for the kill on the now unarmed Mid mages).
Or not since they wouldn’t be able to reinforce there own weapons either which would render them simply lumps of metal easily blockable by even the solid portion of a mid weapon as well. Fate’s device for example also seems like it could be used without the energy blade in a pinch one assumes other examples would be similar. We also never see Fate have any issues keeping the blade formed even under limiters AND AMF so it’s entirely possible it’s just not an issue much like barrier jackets don’t simply fall apart in an AMF either.

Quote:
That, and having a steel weapon crash into something looks more impressive. Besides, 'Armed Device' doesn't mean it can't have energy blades, Strada can use an energy blade to lenghten itself for example.
It’s worth nothing that Erio uses Neo-Belka it’s entirely possible that, that energy blade bit was one of those elements it borrowed from Mid. We never see either Vita or Signum use anything like that as I recall.

Quote:
Well, we're not exactly killing eachother, are we?
Well no, but we do seem to brawl often enough.

Quote:
Yeah, but I was too lazy to dive back into the first generation to find it.
Spoiler for My Ugly Mug:


Quote:
But oh the possibillities of returning the favor.
I'd have had it longer though so I'd still be tougher.

Quote:
Popular point of discussion, but the majority says yes. Barrier Jackets have been stated to generate Barriers and Fields, so its the quickest conclusion.
Acutally the point discussed is more how exactly this works and what there limits are.

Quote:
Probably, or something similar for Cyborgs. Cinque's coat has been stated to have Barrier Jacket-like properties as well, so its not a stretch to believe Jail's coat can do the same.
I find it a strech myself that he apparently wears what ammounts to military grade body armor while working around the office.

Quote:
Hayate....
Well she has us at least...
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Old 2008-07-02, 03:11   Link #2170
Kyral
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Saint X View Post
Why, you can't handle the naming convention?
No I'm just showing my surprise that the Otome of Earl show up in the Nanoverse.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Saint X View Post
Shou and I long agreed that Nanomachines were "technology too advanced to be used / developed by the Bureau by itself at this point in time"

I'm still reconsidering though...
I agree it seems a little to advanced, and with stuff like healingspells and other kinds of magic available they are not really necessary.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Saint X View Post
Men as Otome do not compute
Ok... the name 'Otome' suggests a all female unit...
But you could put a trap in there! That would be fun!
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Old 2008-07-02, 04:07   Link #2171
Tk3997
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Spoiler for Kha and Linker Cores:


Quote:
this is the reality of canon we have to face as much as it doesn't make sense elsewhere. Suspension of Disbelief anyone?
It make sense if one is willing to work to make it so you merely lack the patience and will for that though so you prefer to simply claim it "doesn’t make sense" and then go ahead and instead apply illogical and poorly fitting RPG concepts which you somehow seem to think DO.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Saint X View Post
I'm also taking into consideration the fashion sense of Midchildan males and the long feministic traditions of Midchilda, unlike the Partinistic Traditions of Earth.
Which is seen... oh yes right pretty much no where. Since you pretty much made those up.

Spoiler for Keroko and Linker Cores:



Quote:
*clucks tongue* My throat feels dry after reading this. It seems that even the creator himself feels like shafting Hayate.
Depressing ain't it... Also puts a dampers on any hopes for much improvement in future canon. =/
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Old 2008-07-02, 04:19   Link #2172
Wild Goose
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Ya know what, I'm glad I napped to prepare for working until midnight instead of following this discussion.

The above is also why when it relates to canon information I would rather the Canon Info section of OCNano be restricted to mods and admins only: the honor system is all fine and well for keeping out normal malicious edits (...mostly...) but it cannot protect against someone who has confused the line between his fanon interpretations and canon information.

Or to put it simply: Honor system cannot stop khrack.
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Old 2008-07-02, 04:29   Link #2173
Sheba
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tk3997 View Post
Spoiler:

Three if you count the good old Graham =p
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Old 2008-07-02, 04:46   Link #2174
Keroko
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tk3997 View Post
Sounds about right of coruse allot of the stuff we did as kids WAS silly.
But fun, and that's what its all about.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tk3997 View Post
Which judging by the amount you've acutally produced recently you must not have much time. (yeah I'm one to talk recently.)
I don't, I'm hoping to have a bit more time soon, but every time it seems other things swallow up me schedule.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tk3997 View Post
Embrace the nerdiness!
Says the couch-geek.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tk3997 View Post
Yeah I can see how great that would work...

Spoiler for IGNORE ME!!!:

Ironically it partially does work that way. Generally there is a label or handsignature to show someone is invisible, in which case other people should just ignore him.

When people ignore those rules and instead opt to yell 'I am invisible!' I generally attack them.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tk3997 View Post
Reasonable, but also keep in mind that to always have an escape route, several if at all possible and don't stay in one area too long. Keep moving after a few shots if it's feasible and donít expose yourself either try to find some place high but that covers or at least conceals you. If you can see them, then they can see you but you want to find a position that makes it take as long as possible for that to happen. This is important because while being high gives you a good field of view and lets you fire on more targets being high also means that more enemies can see YOU and return fire if youíre quickly located.

So basically yeah get high, but donít stand on the ledge of a roof top perfectly silhouetted against the sky or something. Actually you might want to avoid the roof and fire from windows on a floor or two below moving between them, that would keep you concealed from fliers overhead too.
*scribbles down notes* Okay, noted.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tk3997 View Post
Probably if you want it too be at least. I'd say it can be focused for one person or broadcast widely for anyone nearby to hear.
They can broadcast to allies only too, in A's that was common practice.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tk3997 View Post
Well if they last beyond the first couple of moves at least... That's another thing with sword fights though in allot of ways they're less forgiving then gunfights. You slip up and the other guy is RIGHT there to make you pay and it's rather likely the that any hit is going to be extremely grievous.
That is without a doubt true.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tk3997 View Post
Or not since they wouldnít be able to reinforce there own weapons either which would render them simply lumps of metal easily blockable by even the solid portion of a mid weapon as well. Fateís device for example also seems like it could be used without the energy blade in a pinch one assumes other examples would be similar. We also never see Fate have any issues keeping the blade formed even under limiters AND AMF so itís entirely possible itís just not an issue much like barrier jackets donít simply fall apart in an AMF either.
Well, Fate was trained in anti-AMF tactics, but I imagine that her Zamber would vanish under the Cradle AMF, in which case the Belkan still have their physical weaponry while Fate has a now useless Zamber.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tk3997 View Post
Itís worth nothing that Erio uses Neo-Belka itís entirely possible that, that energy blade bit was one of those elements it borrowed from Mid. We never see either Vita or Signum use anything like that as I recall.
Hrmm, that's true.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tk3997 View Post
Spoiler for My Ugly Mug:
*notes down eye and hair color*

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tk3997 View Post
Acutally the point discussed is more how exactly this works and what there limits are.
The 'how it works' has already been given to us, the limits are another issue, but then Nanoha is not giving us anything in that regard.

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Originally Posted by Tk3997 View Post
I find it a strech myself that he apparently wears what ammounts to military grade body armor while working around the office.
Why not? If it wears like a lab-coat but gives militairy grade body armor, give me one good reason not to wear it all the time. I kow I'd wear it. Heck, Chrono really does wear his Barrier Jacket virtually all the time.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tk3997 View Post
I disagree weíve discussed this before in IRC and IMO the food has nothing whatsoever to do with actual magical energy. The linker core as an oragan uses the food energy to convert mana in the air into usable mana, but it dose NOT convert the food itself into mana. Mana is never created in the mage merely harvested and refined from outside and this harvesting process requires energy this is what the food is for.
That directly contradicts the entry on the Linker Core:

Linker Core
As the name suggests, an organ in a mageís (knightís) body which works to link and manifest Mana generated within themself.
The disposition of a mage thus depends on their Linker Core, and currently any analysis of a mageís abilities are done by examining the Linker Core.

Like I said before, linking mana from the atmosphere is more likely to refer to external spells like Starlight Breaker, which literally do gather mana from the atmosphere.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tk3997 View Post
Never proved even slightly in fact all the times we see very thin or small jackets they're almost always said to provide inferior protection. We also have quotes talking about how the ammount of fabric effects protection.
Forgotten so soon?

Spoiler for DVD booklet:


Subaru's bikini and Teana's top are designed for high output and heavy armor. That screams proof that small jackets offer high-grade protection.

Spoiler for Linker Core Disc 2:


Quote:
Originally Posted by Tk3997 View Post
Depressing ain't it... Also puts a dampers on any hopes for much improvement in future canon. =/
We can only hope the outrcry of the Hayate fans may sway the creators mind.
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Old 2008-07-02, 05:53   Link #2175
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Originally Posted by Keroko View Post
We can only hope the outrcry of the Hayate fans may sway the creators mind.
Never mind if the outcry can be heard from within the roar for more happy family, it's basically implied the creator has planted a trait that shifts the shafting to be her own fault in the form of self-shafting.. That's pretty disappointing to say the least out of so much that can be said.
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Old 2008-07-02, 05:58   Link #2176
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Originally Posted by Kyral View Post
I was finaly able to creat a character page and link to the other pages... I think I slowley start getting the hang of it.
Do it slowly, all of us are. Contrary to other beliefs, it's no more harder than coding your own webpages (yes, I once did an entire website without using Frontpage).

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Originally Posted by Tempest Dynasty View Post
Alright then. Here we go.

------------------------------------------

What is it you seek?

Vengeance?

Restitution?

Absolution?

Salvation?

Seekers of the Truth, fear not what the past hides; fear not what the present shows; fear not what the future brings.

And rage against the dying of the light.


Mahou Shoujo Lyrical Nanoha: The Gospel of Judas

Spoiler for Chapter 1: The Darkness:
Ah, finally. The small prologue leading to the actual story actually fits a lot of what's been discussed (and accidentally revealed already), but the plot seems to diverge.

Not a bad start, though like what others say, Yuuno seems a little ... odd. Understandably, stress can do nasty things to a person, but for him to just forgo his usual nature is just weird. And again, our Admiral has fallen to some sort of secret thing ! Judging by Yuuno and Fate's concern, it seems to be quite severe. I wonder if it is ...

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Originally Posted by ghazghkull View Post
Hey guys, do you guys mind giving my an opinion on this summary of this original fiction I'm working on, just based on what you've read here?

All I want to know is if it sounds too generic, or if it sounds interesting enough that you'd actually want to give it a read.

Spoiler for Summary:
As far as I'm concerned, I'll read anything. But, for your credit, yes, it's interesting in that she's drafted into an air force, and there's no mention of mages anywhere. Is this out of Nanohaverse?

=====

I'll help a little here.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Comartemis View Post
Canon sources define it as either a muscle or as an organ of some sort. There seems to be some confusion as to which of these is correct, and I’ve seen it referred to as one or the other numerous times on this thread; more on this momentarily.
The DVD booklet refers to it as an organ, and it's not wrong. The confusion is whether the "organ" mentioned is the organ we're thinking about. As students of science, we've always come to take scientific words literally, which in this case would mean that the Linker Core is composed of tissues and stuff.

Personally, I think the word "organ" should not be taken in biological terms. The word "organ" could simply mean a container or vessel that serves a particular function. In Nanohaverse, Linker Core serves as the fundamental processing unit for a mage to cast spells. It doesn't manifest physically, and could be a pocket dimension that performs all things related to magic in Nanohaverse - storing mana, conversion, etc. The pocket dimension supplies mana into the body as long as it's able (hence, linked), and fizzles out after it's exhausted. To refill the dimension, simply rest, eat, and the normal stuff.

This is my personal opinion of Linker Cores, though, so it's not canon-proven.

(Small note: "Organ" derives its meaning from the Greek word organon, which literally means 'that with which one works'. In other words, Linker Cores are the organs with which mages work their spells.)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Comartemis View Post
Mages in Nanoha cannot use magic without a linker core. How exactly this works is also a subject of debate (I’ve seen interpretations that claim it creates magic, and others that say it lets mages draw mana from the atmosphere), but regardless, magic as seen in MGLN cannot function without a linker core. This may not, however, be the case with all systems which use magic sources unique to their universes; Slayers or Negima magic for instance. For the purposes of this treatise, we will ignore these other possibilities and focus on canon systems which do require the LC to use magic.
Supposedly, yes. In the case where these mages are stripped of their Linker Cores, they are not able to do all those flashy things unless there's another approach to which they can harness different forms of energy to help them. As an example, Astral Templars (in my fiction) do not have Linker Cores and they cannot harvest mana from anything to perform magic. What they receive in substitute is a different system that utilize Elements (energies stored in various objects) as the power source and Titans to help them channel, process, and stabilize them enough for use to cast magic-like abilities. A roundabout process, no doubt, but it works fine.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Comartemis View Post
Not all people are born with Linker Cores. This contradicts the statement that the LC is a muscle or an organ, as both are a part of a person’s body and therefore one cannot be born without a linker core any more than one can be born without a heart or a lung. Therefore, it follows that all people are born with linker cores, just that the vast majority of them are too weak to be used to perform magic.
As I said, it's a pocket dimension (I don't know how many n-th of dimensions, though). For some people, it's not that they don't have Linker Cores, but rather they could not access it. The degree of access depends on the person's ability to discern hidden containers of magical powers hidden within them. Nanoha in the first season is also a normal person until Yuuno (and Raising Heart) makes her aware of her magical abilities.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Comartemis View Post
When the core is attacked with a draining technique such as Shamal’s Linker Core Grab, it manifests outside the body as a glowing sphere of light. Damage done to the linker core by attacks such as this require several days to heal and regenerate depending on the severity of the drain.
I consider Shamal's Mirror of Travels as a dimension-breaching technique. What it does is that it locks/engulfs the pocket in its own dimension, forcing it to manifest in the material world. Technically speaking, if you were to touch a person, you would not be able to cause any significant damage to the Linker Core because it does not exist in the same dimension (according to my own understanding). Shamal's spell simply works by imprisoning the Linker Core in a dimension where she could do something about the organ.

(Small note: Again, personal opinion.)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Comartemis View Post
The usage of magic requires mages to take in large quantities of food according to the DVD booklets, which indicates that the usage of magic uses physical energy of the body. This corresponds with the LC’s status as a part of the body.
Mana is described as a form of energy according to the DVD booklet, so it's assumed to follow the principles associated with energy to a certain degree. Conversion of physical energy to mana is similar to changes from potential to kinetic energy. I find this acceptable, but it may differ for others.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Comartemis View Post
Firstly, if we assume that the linker core is in fact an organ, then it most likely serves a constant function like the heart or the lungs, in this case being the constant creation of mana.

However if we assume the the core is in fact a type of muscle, we suddenly have an explanation for how a mage becomes stronger with training over time. This also corresponds with the presence of strained and damaged linker cores. Therefore, the Linker Core is most likely a muscle.
In this way, we're thinking along the line of physical manifestation of Linker Cores. The one question that disproves this is: if you were to stab a person's body, could you somehow damage and/or destroy the Linker Core? Nanohaverse is filled with full-body damaging attacks, yet none of them seem to have an effect on Linker Cores (we're assuming that every attack is fully damaging in the physical sense and not merely magic damage). The only one effect we've seen so far is Shamal's Mirror of Travels, which is a dimensional technique. Other than that, it's the mages themselves exhausting the supply of mana.

Improving mana capacity and getting more proficient with magic (able to use stronger attacks, faster processing, etc.) is (again, to my own interpretation) nothing more than expanding your awareness of your own magical potential. The size of the dimension that you're able to access as you become more aware of it expands through training (an oversimplification for my part, but hopefully sufficient).

It's like most wizards in fantasy settings: you learn more, you become more powerful. For Nanohaverse, it's you train more, you become more proficient and have higher mana output (and only this). Accuracy and control of spells are not something your Linker Core helps you with, so it's part of the advantages of the training process.

[To simplify long stories short, my interpretation of a Linker Core is a dimensional box that holds your magic energy. It starts out as a small cube, but as you train and increase your awareness, it increases until ... well, your limit of awareness.]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kha View Post
3. The LC also has a storage function. Through rest and meditation, one can regenerate their magic potential over time.
Canon disputes this, though. Nanoha lost 8% of her magic potential and it's permanently irrecoverable. For my part, it's part of Nanoha's dimensional pocket collapsing after she forced an expenditure of mana greater than she could handle.
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Old 2008-07-02, 06:36   Link #2177
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Erm, Keroko could you pull out that page where Shamal was explaining to Nanoha about her injuries? I recall her mentioning her that if she didn't rest she'll never recover.

EDIT: Anyway those were pretty minor points, no point making a big fuss out of them. At least cos I don't have plot elements built around them.
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Old 2008-07-02, 09:02   Link #2178
Comartemis
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Mind the tone of your responses, TK, you're turning into your old not-so-lovable flamethrower self again. Let's try to make sure Aaron doesn't see any need to get involved in this again; quit with the attitude before anything starts, please.

Quote:
This I just consider total nonsense as we see cores damaged and such and no one ever becomes a zombie or something in fact the very concept of a soul existing in Nanoha is highly suspect. We see no nercomancy, after life, ghosts, etc shit UC Gundam has more hints at a true soul then Nanoha does.
Problem: for the purposes of Comacanon, all these things damn well do exist. I mentioned already that I'm trying to come up with a working definition for the purposes of usage in Comacanon right around the time I first mentioned the astral and material planes.

*Sigh*

I seem to have opened up a can of worms with that treatise. I'm pretty set on introducing an alternate energy source for non-mages, but the magic circuit theory makes it so mana is essentially serving the same purpose as ki. Tricky.

Eh, whatever. The ultimate purpose of this is to create an the basis of a working explanation for why Asuna can cancel out magic to the degree that she does and have extreme trouble projecting it away from herself, but at the same time still be able to enhance herself with it. I may wind up just giving her Void element mana and say she can't project it very far from herself because Void mana is resistant to being linked by the LC. Or something. Need to think about this more.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Keroko View Post
And yet the booklet entry on the Linker Core says 'mana generated within the body'
You're both right. Linked mana can be generated within the body by drawing on unlinked mana from outside the body. There, problem solved.
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Old 2008-07-02, 09:11   Link #2179
dkellis
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Originally Posted by Tk3997 View Post
Understandable, but donít take it too far and try to apply totally real world limits as it wonít work in the setting. Acceptable force is determined by the suspects actions if the suspect can use higher level magic and is doing so then responding in turn is acceptable even if property damage is possible, nigh likely, to result. This is most true if the target is already wanted for violent offenses for example if someone shot up there work place then jumped in there car and fled as the cops arrived the police WILL chase them to the ends of the earth even if they wreck a half dozen civilian cars or buildings in the process and very few people are going to complain.

High speed purists in general are a fair model of this kind of thing there a balance to be found some areas are like the Wild West. Theyíll chase anyone and hang out windows blowing out tires with shotguns and such while others while others arenít allowed to chase anyone. Neither is ideal the former is dangerous and can turn minor offenses into huge messes, but the later is unworkable Iíve heard of areas that were so strict that police werenít allowed to even follow a speeder if the failed to yield when the lights came on, so basically you could dodge any ticket by just going faster. Swat can have similar issues were it can be tricky to decide when to talk or keep talking and when to start shooting.

That said the biggest thing though is that if a suspect is actively threatening the locals or the officers lives they WILL fight back with equal force as no agency can reasonably ask its members to be martyrs. When that threshold is reached though is often at the officer involved discretion. Still donít fall into some absurd trap were bad guys are shooting at the heroes and they wonít fight back because they donít want to damage a storefront or they take a hostage and they just let them go without a struggle or something. (This is the WORST possible thing to do by the way.)
It's probably not likely to come to that, in any case.

The guidelines I noted down for the characters to follow are:

- Never begin the fight. Violence is always the last resort.

- Minimum necessary force, always.

- "He started it" is not a valid excuse to let loose.

- You are not expected to martyr yourself, and self-defence is a valid reason. (Note: Rancer has a lot of trouble following this one. I'm writing it as a completely boneheaded move on his part.)

- You're free to use your best judgement and discretion, but be prepared to back it up in future inquiries.

- If you injure a civilian, you're the one who has to explain why. Make sure that explanation is very, very good.

- Protect the innocent, keep the peace, serve the public trust, and uphold the law, in that order.

Basically I'm trying to write a story where a minimum of flashy moves is considered commendable, and yet have it fit in the Nanoha-verse.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wild Goose View Post
Ya know what, I'm glad I napped to prepare for working until midnight instead of following this discussion.

The above is also why when it relates to canon information I would rather the Canon Info section of OCNano be restricted to mods and admins only: the honor system is all fine and well for keeping out normal malicious edits (...mostly...) but it cannot protect against someone who has confused the line between his fanon interpretations and canon information.

Or to put it simply: Honor system cannot stop khrack.
The reason I made it an honour system is because it makes very little difference at this stage whether it's open to all, or if only mods/admins can edit.

In essence, moderator-ship does not magically confer canon knowledge. I mean, I'm an admin, and I would place myself at the far lower end of the canon knowledge scale.

Currently the mods (Kha, Tempest, and TK) are mods because they've volunteered to do the heavy grunt work of making the site reasonably intuitive to navigate. That's pretty much my only criteria for promotion; the post of co-admin is still open to anyone who wants to try prettifying the site using CSS.

And there's no real filter I can use that will please everyone, or even get anywhere close to a consensus. The only one I can think of is asking "okay, who's willing to fill out the canon bits, and promise not to put in non-canon info?" which I suspect will net the majority of the current members. That's not much different from the current honour system.

As always, suggestions for improvements are welcome.

-

When the word "nanobots" is mentioned, does anyone else come up with a mental image of a horde of tiny Nanoha robots?

Or is it just me?
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Old 2008-07-02, 09:13   Link #2180
Tk3997
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Originally Posted by Comartemis View Post
Mind the tone of your responses, TK, you're turning into your old not-so-lovable flamethrower self again. Let's try to make sure Aaron doesn't see any need to get involved in this again; quit with the attitude before anything starts, please.
Coma I'm ignoring and leaving you alone so do me the same curiosity and bugger off.

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Originally Posted by Keroko View Post
I don't, I'm hoping to have a bit more time soon, but every time it seems other things swallow up me schedule.
And me I have all the time and in the world and I waste it, mostly yakking with you guys. IRC is kind of evil in that before it came along I'd probably have spent more of my time between say midnight and 6AM writing instead of chatting. But it's just so damn fun to bum around with everyone in there shooting the breeze...

Quote:
Says the couch-geek.
Indeed, but my chosen method of geek-dom comes with air conditioning and pretty special effects when I cast my spells.

Quote:
Ironically it partially does work that way. Generally there is a label or handsignature to show someone is invisible, in which case other people should just ignore him.

When people ignore those rules and instead opt to yell 'I am invisible!' I generally attack them.
I you must have mighty self control to just keep from laughing your ass off when this is happening.

Quote:
Well, Fate was trained in anti-AMF tactics, but I imagine that her Zamber would vanish under the Cradle AMF, in which case the Belkan still have their physical weaponry while Fate has a now useless Zamber.
You have NO proof of that and I'd tend to imagine it wouldn't as noted the AMF didn't blow apart barrier jackets so why would it effect devices so severely? My own personal view is that if it's IN CONTACT with the mage it's much less affected by AMF. Which indeed dose favor Belkan in general somewhat with it's more buff based approach, but wouldn't cripple a Mid melee fighter either IMO.

Quote:
Hrmm, that's true.
Yeah I just thought of that at least that could be one vaugely concrete difference we could use.

Quote:
The 'how it works' has already been given to us, the limits are another issue, but then Nanoha is not giving us anything in that regard.
No, no it hasn't not even slightly. All we have is vague shit subject to interoperation and give us almost no information on the actual mechanics involved which is why this debate keeps coming up; because we HAVEN'T been given a decent explanation.

Personally I think this is probably because the writers don't have one either which is totally unacceptable and a case of shit planning, but it happens all too often sadly. Just look at Star Trek and say Phasers or Shields actually both are a good example it's been DECADES and we're still not really sure how either works. There are some commonly accepted fanon theories but nothing official. If Nanoha is following Treks lead this debate will never be settled. Our knowledge on BJ is vague and is filled with large gaps about how exactly these work and why. Those holes tend to be filled by Fanon at the whim of the author as it comes up which is why this debate keeps resurfacing as ideas over what's going on inside those gaps in our knowledge clash. It’s also why this shit will never end; because there is no answer to allot of the questions being asked.

It's also why I'm done arguing about it I've worked out my own theory which I'll be using in my pick and will post if anyone wants to read it, but this debate is just one I'm fucking TIRED off it's like pulling teeth whenever it comes up.

Quote:
Why not? If it wears like a lab-coat but gives militairy grade body armor, give me one good reason not to wear it all the time. I kow I'd wear it. Heck, Chrono really does wear his Barrier Jacket virtually all the time.
Besides the fact it's canon that BJ use magic on a continuous basis when active and Jail in so far as we know is not overly magically gifted? Or perhaps the fact that every other character in the show when engaging a jacket has a noticeable change in appearance?

Quote:
That directly contradicts the entry on the Linker Core:
Linker Core
As the name suggests, an organ in a mage’s (knight’s) body which works to link and manifest Mana generated within themself.
The disposition of a mage thus depends on their Linker Core, and currently any analysis of a mage’s abilities are done by examining the Linker Core.

Like I said before, linking mana from the atmosphere is more likely to refer to external spells like Starlight Breaker, which literally do gather mana from the atmosphere.
Like I said before according to newer canon this has been if not retconned modified if you want to spam the same quote I'll spam mine too.
A mage’s diet
"For mages, Mana in the atmosphere is linked together in an organ, the “Linker core”, and stored within their body.--"

Honestly though if this isn't enough I'm not sure what else I'm supposed to do I'm giving you a direct newer canon quote for Christ sake! What am I supposed to do beyond that? Get the writers on the phone to explain it to you?

Quote:
Forgotten so soon?

Spoiler for DVD booklet:


Subaru's bikini and Teana's top are designed for high output and heavy armor. That screams proof that small jackets offer high-grade protection.
Ignored. I'll post my own theory that I'll use in my fic shortly and then swear this shit off forever. You know what I think, I know what you think and we're just beating a dead horse with a piledriver at this point.

Now onto shit that hasn't been gone over 600 times already and is still somewhat interesting.

Spoiler for Linker Core Disc 2:


Quote:
We can only hope the outrcry of the Hayate fans may sway the creators mind.
Doubtful as noted most of them are probably two bust whacking off to the F/N.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dkellis View Post
It's probably not likely to come to that, in any case.

The guidelines I noted down for the characters to follow are:

- Never begin the fight. Violence is always the last resort.

- Minimum necessary force, always.

- "He started it" is not a valid excuse to let loose.

- You are not expected to martyr yourself, and self-defence is a valid reason. (Note: Rancer has a lot of trouble following this one. I'm writing it as a completely boneheaded move on his part.)

- You're free to use your best judgement and discretion, but be prepared to back it up in future inquiries.

- If you injure a civilian, you're the one who has to explain why. Make sure that explanation is very, very good.

- Protect the innocent, keep the peace, serve the public trust, and uphold the law, in that order.

Basically I'm trying to write a story where a minimum of flashy moves is considered commendable, and yet have it fit in the Nanoha-verse.
Looks fine to my eyes I'm just cautioning against swing to far the other way and ending up with ludicrously restrictive ROEs (Rules of Engagement) which you then just spend all your time subverting anyway. I've seen that happen.

Quote:
Currently the mods (Kha, Tempest, and TK) are mods because they've volunteered to do the heavy grunt work of making the site reasonably intuitive to navigate. That's pretty much my only criteria for promotion; the post of co-admin is still open to anyone who wants to try prettifying the site using CSS.
If that’s the case then I’m not sure I’m cut out for that job frankly my area has always been more in producing content and general writing then coding and such, and I think I work best at a middle management level rather then as a big cheese. (IE I work best when I've given something perhaps somewhat broad, but still well defined to do rather then have to find something) Hell I never even asked for the job I just registered and said I’d work on it when I can really. All I’ve done so far is just read the FAQ and stuff for instance.
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