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Old 2008-07-27, 23:45   Link #3041
Jimmy C
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Join Date: Jun 2007
Quote:
Originally Posted by Keroko View Post
Keroko: Negima version
I see a few things here that could use some refining.
Quote:
When attempting to help her, they discover that the girl, Keroko, is suffering from a near-total case of amnesia.
You know, after a novel I read many years ago, I've never trusted amnesiacs. One, how do you know they're not lying? Two, even if they aren't lying, can you still trust the person after their memories return?
Quote:
This time, however, a demon or two were included into the mix. In the resulting chaos, Chamo approaches Negi and Keroko on a pactio.
I see only two ways in which even Chamo would be willing to consider the idea. One, whichever pactio Negi has with him at that moment is engaged and ineffective; or Keroko is the only one with him at that time. Because if any of his other students were available, Keroko would not be considered.
Quote:
She tripped and hit her head on a rock.
Her head survived, the rock didn’t.
Still, the shock was enough to cause a near-total amnesia, which only came back sporadically.
Allow me to say, I utterly hate this cliche. There are several ways to induce near-total anmesia, but that kind of trauma isn't one of them. You're more likely to splatter a person's brains before inducing that amount memory loss. The whole point of the skull is to prevent something like this. Medical records have suggested that, at best, it only causes loss of short-term memories. I suggest deliberate action by an unindentified party.
BTW, I heard that electroshock therapy is a possible cure for concussion-induced memory loss.
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Old 2008-07-28, 01:10   Link #3042
Kha
~ I Do ~
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^^ Which is why I felt Chao had some role in it, or some future villain intent on capitalizing on a confused princess.


And I seem to only finish things in the middle of a lecture. Hope you don't mind me borrowing the format Keroko:
Spoiler for Aun'la'Kouya:
...I seem to only be able to build characters around other characters. The Nodoka focus dimmed, and a Keroko one grew so big.

Like I said, this is a prototype, and room change is there. I dropped Kotarou being a half-brother, but the "animosity" then arises from how he's a lucky hanyou.

Another old Tau Wolves Khrack was having bird demon auxiliaries... Setsuna would feel so at home. <.<

Vis Decretum means Nature's Decree.
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Last edited by Kha; 2008-07-28 at 04:08.
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Old 2008-07-28, 03:14   Link #3043
Keroko
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When Khrack strikes, it strikes hard.



This lovely image raised no small amount of Keroko khrack (yes, there is a sentoukijin Keroko in the Nanohaverse) red hair, black outfit with red lines, and a red gem? Yup, mucho Khrackos.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kha View Post
One thing I like about Kouya is that he's a clean sheet.
Which is why I want a profile. I can see KerokoXKha happening, but I don't know enough about Kouya to decide whether I can see this happening.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kha View Post
*tries to imagine a blue LARP pattern Shaman set and drifts off to 40K...*

...!!!

*hurriedly slays 40K daemon*



Got a picture?
Nope, sorry.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kha View Post
Its because only if the future is inevitably set/fixed to occur in a certain manner, can one travel into the past in the first place and do something that was going to happen.

See how even before Negi started going back in time, relative to the present, he already was timetraveling. This shows that the future is fixed, and all actions in the present will lead to this one inevitable future.

Which means all efforts to change the future will end in vain, because, like how the future returning to the past only ends up causing an event already accounted for in the future, the present's actions will have even less impact on that future.

20 Faces was taunting Kouya's efforts to pursue Chao's future Scriber, because it was inevitable. And raised the threat of creating a time paradox if he succeeds.

There's one loophole here that I figured out, but to reveal it now would be spoilerific.
... Yeah, except that Negima also rendered that invalid when Negi and co. arived to the "changed earth" after falling for Chao's trap a week later. This shows that changing the future from its 'destined path' is very much possible in Negima.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kha View Post
Yes KeroChao is very unlikely. Now the problem is to resolve whether Kouya fits Keroko; she's a bit like Saber () and Kouya's a lot like Shiro () so I'll have to try really hard ().
Which, concidering I don't really like Shirou, makes it really hard.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kha View Post
And no, no Unlimited Blade Works. The most is his variation of Ki-Magic Synthesis that combines the 4 elements instead:

"I am the Son of the Wind and Rain."
"Earth is my Body, and Fire is my Blood."

...it goes further, but yeah.
Mweh, is that really necissary?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kha View Post
How... unceremonious a landing. Almost as if Chao tripped her.
Commedy dictated that one.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kha View Post
Pact: Certain Victory computes to hell and back again.
Assured, technically. But both of them share the same latin word (which makes sense, since they virtually mean the same thing).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kha View Post
No complaints about her abilities, in fact, I can safely say she's...

Tohsaka Anna: "...the most powerful class of Ministra."
Yeesh, once again I make references without noticing them.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kha View Post
...like Asuna.
Asuna is my second-favourite character, and my favourite 'currently still in the story' character. You do the math.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kha View Post
Many Khrack crystals fell when her story came up...

But from the story... I can feel the fire burning in mah brains! So many elements mesh together, just need to tweak a little here and there...!

*a Khrack explosion ensues as new crystals form in place of the old*

Oi oi.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aaron008R View Post
Nice...
Mind filling us in on one of those?:P
When I get down to writing them, sure.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aaron008R View Post
How about extra-casual comrades?:3
Sounds good.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aaron008R View Post
A side all three of us have, Keroko-chan.

Remember...?

Hurt Nanoha = Face Keroko's Dark DragonBreath

Hurt Fate = Face Kha's Divine Zamber

Hurt Hayate = Face my 'Normal But No Less Painful' punishment.


Now that I've thought about it, You like to use Darkness, Kha likes using the Light. =3
So that means I get Normal? :3 Not that I'm complaining, though. I love my neutral magic and how to use it advantageously! >:3
Hmm. Normal attacks can be quite nasty too.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aaron008R View Post
Which make me thinks that having both Tesla and Grandis as the exasprated duo to Aurion's whimsical attitude compute...
*click* why yes... yes it does..

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wild Goose View Post
Actually it was supposed to be German. According to a translator i checked with, it's supposed to mean "Shadow Man."
I'll wait for Kyral to deliver verdict on that one, but it definetely means Treasure Man in Dutch. XD

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wild Goose View Post
I kinda wonder if there's a Leena for him...
You could always create one.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wild Goose View Post
I'm still @___@ at black-haired Rena. It just doesn't compute. And yet it also computes.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Wild Goose View Post
Well, I was planning on refining Franz and toning down a number of Halo elements. But.... i think I'll need to read more fantasy. My current readinglist is as follows: The Royal Marines: From Sea Soldiers to a Special Force, Downrange: SEALs in the War on Terror, Marine Sniper: 93 Confirmed Kills, Black Hawk Down and Inside Delta Force.
If I may give some advice, Slayers is an excellent anime to get into fantasy. There's currently one being subbed too, so its easy to grab the torrents.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jimmy C View Post
I see a few things here that could use some refining.
Thanks for taking the time to point them out.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jimmy C View Post
You know, after a novel I read many years ago, I've never trusted amnesiacs. One, how do you know they're not lying? Two, even if they aren't lying, can you still trust the person after their memories return?
Negi is a nine-year-old mage who trusts, and even asks to study under, a vampire who tried to kill him not even a few chapters earlier. I hardly think an amnesiac girl would pose any problems in regards to 'trust'

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jimmy C View Post
I see only two ways in which even Chamo would be willing to consider the idea. One, whichever pactio Negi has with him at that moment is engaged and ineffective; or Keroko is the only one with him at that time. Because if any of his other students were available, Keroko would not be considered.
Good point. I'll rework this to Negi and Keroko being alone at the time.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jimmy C View Post
Allow me to say, I utterly hate this cliche. There are several ways to induce near-total anmesia, but that kind of trauma isn't one of them. You're more likely to splatter a person's brains before inducing that amount memory loss. The whole point of the skull is to prevent something like this. Medical records have suggested that, at best, it only causes loss of short-term memories.
Trust me, I am very much aware of this, being that I managed to split my skull on a sharp rock myself. You suffer from short-term memory loss (I don't remember how I fell, for one), disorientation, nausea, and a lack of sensory input in regards to pain (for which I thank my brain, because I don't think feeling that hole in my head would have been comfortable at that time). You also bleed quite a bit, though since I was in a pool at that time, the diluted water made it seem worse then it was (I was basically looking like I was just swimming in a pool of blood).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jimmy C View Post
I suggest deliberate action by an unindentified party.
I was actually trying to prevent any doomsday scenarios, and make it seem something casual. But perhaps this can work, if Keroko spotted a mage doing his or her job, they'd erase her memories about magic, and concidering Keroko's life has been around magic since birth, that'd mean a lot of memories would be removed. If they used an automatic spell (or rather, a spell that is given a single command, basically saying 'remove all memories about magic') that could explain why they didn't dig through her memory.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jimmy C View Post
BTW, I heard that electroshock therapy is a possible cure for concussion-induced memory loss.
Wouldn't know, and not knowing how I fell sure isn't enough motivation to try it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kha View Post
^^ Which is why I felt Chao had some role in it, or some future villain intent on capitalizing on a confused princess.
Problem is, nobody knows she's a princess. Well, Chao does, but she has no reason to cause her amnesia, as Keroko is not part of her plans.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kha View Post
And I seem to only finish things in the middle of a lecture. Hope you don't mind me borrowing the format Keroko:
Spoiler for Aun'la'Kouya:
...I seem to only be able to build characters around other characters. The Nodoka focus dimmed, and a Keroko one grew so big.

Like I said, this is a prototype, and room change is there.

Vis Decretum means Nature's Decree.
Hmm, I can't really see Kouya and Keroko in a romantic relationship, but a partner relationship sounds doable.

Yuuno mental image does not compute though.
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Old 2008-07-28, 03:59   Link #3044
Sheba
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Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Naval Base in the rectum of Pacific Ocean
Age: 34
Heroic fantasy I'd recommend:

Manga/Anime:

Record of Lodoss War OAV

Berserk (manga and anime). It may worth the read or the watch for Goose, especially the Band of the Hawks arc that is about a mercenary company.

Scrapped Princess

Books:

Conan the Barbarian

Hawkmoon by Michael Moorcock

Elric by Michael Moorcock
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Old 2008-07-28, 04:20   Link #3045
Jimmy C
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Keroko View Post
Negi is a nine-year-old mage who trusts, and even asks to study under, a vampire who tried to kill him not even a few chapters earlier.
Said vampire was a student in his class whom he had non-hostile interaction with before and after the battle as well as before asking to study under her. Eva's not an unknown quantity. Keroko, when Negi first meets her, is a completely unknown quantity. You need a good reason for Negi and friends to keep her around instead of handing her off to ordinary authorities who would seem to be better equiped to deal with this. For the life of me, I can't think of one.
Furthermore, hauling her from Kyoto, where they found her, to Mahora, removes any possibilities of finding clues to her identity in Kyoto. You need another reason for them to consider that as being acceptable.
Are you sure it wouldn't be better if she was a student at Mahora right from the start?

Quote:
I hardly think an amnesiac girl would pose any problems in regards to 'trust'
Maybe, with his child's innocence, he might trust her. But I wouldn't. That's just my preference, you can disregard it.

Quote:
Good point. I'll rework this to Negi and Keroko being alone at the time.
I just thought of something, even just prior to going to Wales, Negi tries hard to keep his students from finding out he's a mage. I think at least half his class still doesn't know about him being a mage.
So here you have Negi alone with an amnesiac girl he knows nothing about and along comes a demon to attack them. What would Negi likely do?
A. Shove the girl aside and try "not to get her involved"
B. Pactio with her and work to defeat the demon.
It is possible to get B, but remember to close off all other alternatives first.
Come to think of it, you also need a reason why any of the girls would allow Negi to be alone with this stranger. Even with Chamo along.
Quote:
being that I managed to split my skull on a sharp rock myself. You suffer from short-term memory loss
I had an incident like that too, or I think I did. One time, when I was very young, I woke up at my grandparents' place with no idea how I got there (that's quite something since it was a 3 hour trip from my own home at the time) My parents told me I ran, slipped and knocked myself out shortly after we arrived.
Quote:
But perhaps this can work, if Keroko spotted a mage doing his or her job, they'd erase her memories about magic,
That would work, the manga even has the perfect spell you'd need. Heck, you can rip off the entire Yue-in-Ariadne scenario, not just the spell. Only this time, the perpetrator didn't stick around to assess the extent of the damage she did. That level of ridiculousness is the perfect fit for the Negiverse.

Last edited by Jimmy C; 2008-07-28 at 04:44.
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Old 2008-07-28, 04:26   Link #3046
Kha
~ I Do ~
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Keroko View Post
When Khrack strikes, it strikes hard.



This lovely image raised no small amount of Keroko khrack (yes, there is a sentoukijin Keroko in the Nanohaverse) red hair, black outfit with red lines, and a red gem? Yup, mucho Khrackos.
Sure helps to have a female OC in the Nanoverse.

But I can see that happening.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Keroko View Post
Which is why I want a profile. I can see KerokoXKha happening, but I don't know enough about Kouya to decide whether I can see this happening.
I could, but I was torn between keeping what I had so far to changing it completely just for Keroko.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Keroko View Post
... Yeah, except that Negima also rendered that invalid when Negi and co. arived to the "changed earth" after falling for Chao's trap a week later. This shows that changing the future from its 'destined path' is very much possible in Negima.
...which was what I expected.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Keroko View Post
Which, concidering I don't really like Shirou, makes it really hard.
...oh frap.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Keroko View Post
Mweh, is that really necissary?
No either. I dropped it in the end.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Keroko View Post
Commedy dictated that one.
I... see...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Keroko View Post
Assured, technically. But both of them share the same latin word (which makes sense, since they virtually mean the same thing).


Quote:
Originally Posted by Keroko View Post
Yeesh, once again I make references without noticing them.
It lured me to go Shiro heavy. To my detriment.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Keroko View Post
Asuna is my second-favourite character, and my favourite 'currently still in the story' character. You do the math.
Can't say anything less.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Keroko View Post
Problem is, nobody knows she's a princess. Well, Chao does, but she has no reason to cause her amnesia, as Keroko is not part of her plans.
Yeah well, I'm just guessing that we could make some new OC do that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Keroko View Post
Hmm, I can't really see Kouya and Keroko in a romantic relationship, but a partner relationship sounds doable.

Yuuno mental image does not compute though.
Yuuno came to me this morning, turned out it was a bad idea.

...to be honest I can't see Kouya X Keroko from this version.

I keep trying to change it, but unless I completely abandon the original character template which was built around Nodoka, it WAS hard.

Now the only problem is, should I drop the original template then go fully into this? I've already dropped so many things off of Kouya, I can change some more! Only thing is whether is it right to do so.
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Old 2008-07-28, 05:28   Link #3047
Keroko
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sheba View Post
Heroic fantasy I'd recommend:

Manga/Anime:

Record of Lodoss War OAV
I also recommend the Record of Lodoss War manga, especially the Grey Witch. It just screams D&D no matter how you look at it. Perfect fantasy.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jimmy C View Post
Said vampire was a student in his class whom he had non-hostile interaction with before and after the battle as well as before asking to study under her. Eva's not an unknown quantity. Keroko, when Negi first meets her, is a completely unknown quantity. You need a good reason for Negi and friends to keep her around instead of handing her off to ordinary authorities who would seem to be better equiped to deal with this. For the life of me, I can't think of one.
Furthermore, hauling her from Kyoto, where they found her, to Mahora, removes any possibilities of finding clues to her identity in Kyoto. You need another reason for them to consider that as being acceptable.
Are you sure it wouldn't be better if she was a student at Mahora right from the start?
Probably, I can insert her from the beginning, very little about her history needs to be changed, she's still on an undercover mission (in fact, the presence of so many mages and the World Tree makes it far more likely she would be send there rather then Kyoto) and we know Mahora accepts students with virtualy no background.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jimmy C View Post
That would work, the manga even has the perfect spell you'd need. Heck, you can rip off the entire Yue-in-Ariadne scenario, not just the spell. Only this time, the perpetrator didn't stick around to assess the extent of the damage she did. That level of ridiculousness is the perfect fit for the Negiverse.
The memory loss being such an essential part of her profile, it needs to be kept intact to avoid a complete rebuilt. This sounds as good a way as any, the memory whipe could have occured long before Kyoto (as Keroko was researching magic as part of her mission) and the mage who erased her magic simply commanded the spell to 'erase all knowledge of magic' being that Keroko is Mid-born, and pretty much her entire life on Mid revolved around magic, almost her entire memory got erased, except her time at Mahora.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jimmy C View Post
I had an incident like that too, or I think I did. One time, when I was very young, I woke up at my grandparents' place with no idea how I got there (that's quite something since it was a 3 hour trip from my own home at the time) My parents told me I ran, slipped and knocked myself out shortly after we arrived.
Ouch. For me, I woke up on the ground with no knowledge how I got there. Concidering I woke up by myself rather then someone helping me, it couldn't have been more then a few seconds I lost.

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Originally Posted by Kha View Post
Sure helps to have a female OC in the Nanoverse.
And Nove is a red-haired, stuborn, temperamental girl to boot.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kha View Post
I could, but I was torn between keeping what I had so far to changing it completely just for Keroko.
Don't change everything for one OC who's profile is still far from finished. If I figure the whole descendant from Belka thing doesn't work out to my satisfction, I may end up scrapping it completely.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kha View Post
...to be honest I can't see Kouya X Keroko from this version.

I keep trying to change it, but unless I completely abandon the original character template which was built around Nodoka, it WAS hard.

Now the only problem is, should I drop the original template then go fully into this? I've already dropped so many things off of Kouya, I can change some more! Only thing is whether is it right to do so.
I suggest returing focuss to Nodoka for now. Like I said, nothing about Keroko's profile is set in stone yet. I need to change her pactio to reflect her Device for one (I can't believe I forgot that >_<)
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Old 2008-07-28, 05:43   Link #3048
Kyral
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Originally Posted by Keroko View Post
I'll wait for Kyral to deliver verdict on that one, but it definetely means Treasure Man in Dutch. XD
That's why I was asking about dutch xD

But yeah in german 'Shadow Man' is 'Schattenmann' (with two n.).

Btw: 'Treasure Man' in german would be 'Schatzmann'.


Oh and what I wanted to ask:

Keroko? Your sig!
Do you have the full picture? ^^
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Last edited by Kyral; 2008-07-28 at 07:52.
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Old 2008-07-28, 05:56   Link #3049
Keroko
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I do, its not AnimeSuki safe though, so I'll send it via PM. If anyone else wants it, ask away.
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Old 2008-07-28, 06:13   Link #3050
Kha
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Keroko View Post
Probably, I can insert her from the beginning, very little about her history needs to be changed, she's still on an undercover mission (in fact, the presence of so many mages and the World Tree makes it far more likely she would be send there rather then Kyoto) and we know Mahora accepts students with virtualy no background.
Yet another reminder about the advantages of having a female OC in the right anime/manga...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Keroko View Post
The memory loss being such an essential part of her profile, it needs to be kept intact to avoid a complete rebuilt. This sounds as good a way as any, the memory whipe could have occured long before Kyoto (as Keroko was researching magic as part of her mission) and the mage who erased her magic simply commanded the spell to 'erase all knowledge of magic' being that Keroko is Mid-born, and pretty much her entire life on Mid revolved around magic, almost her entire memory got erased, except her time at Mahora.
This works well too.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Keroko View Post
And Nove is a red-haired, stuborn, temperamental girl to boot.
The core of all Kerokos.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Keroko View Post
Don't change everything for one OC who's profile is still far from finished. If I figure the whole descendant from Belka thing doesn't work out to my satisfction, I may end up scrapping it completely.
I don't think that needs to change really. Once you factor in Jimmy's comments, I believe the later part works just fine; Keroko being an unfortunate victim of the earth mages' information control policy.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Keroko View Post
I suggest returing focuss to Nodoka for now. Like I said, nothing about Keroko's profile is set in stone yet. I need to change her pactio to reflect her Device for one (I can't believe I forgot that >_<)
Look at it this way: Nodoka was my favorite CC in Negima, along with Yue and Chao, but if Keroko was part of the cast, she'd have beaten all the others by a wide margin, and I'd have started with her in mind.

Well, maybe not Chao, but I like Chao for the wrong reason, ie, the sheer amount of Khrack circling around her.

Like the one that Aaron is wishing me to die for.

Anyway the relative ranks are part of the reason for my little craziness for this KxK ship in Negiha...



And... I got another brainwave! However, its a little cheap... Like... Someone from TSAB comes looking for his lost partner kind of cheap.

And... mind if I have a peek at that pic as well...?
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Old 2008-07-28, 06:21   Link #3051
Keroko
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Possible somewhat off-topic, but a newsflash just came in.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kha View Post
Yet another reminder about the advantages of having a female OC in the right anime/manga...
*tilts head* How so?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kha View Post
The core of all Kerokos.
[Khrack]So what if Nove's original was, in fact, this sentoukijin Keroko? Her temperament would have been inherited from the original, which was a fast moving Belkan using combat mage.[/khrack]

Utilizing the dropped Hikaru concept for the new Sentoukijin Keroko. Brainwaves are awesome.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kha View Post
I don't think that needs to change really. Once you factor in Jimmy's comments, I believe the later part works just fine; Keroko being an unfortunate victim of the earth mages' information control policy.
We'll see, like I said, if the progress of the Negima manga turns it to a point where I'm not satisfied with it, I may end up scrapping it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kha View Post
Look at it this way: Nodoka was my favorite CC in Negima, along with Yue and Chao, but if Keroko was part of the cast, she'd have beaten all the others by a wide margin, and I'd have started with her in mind.

And hence my little craziness for this ship in Negima...
Wait, Keroko ranks that high to you?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kha View Post
And... I got another brainwave! However, its a little cheap... Like... Someone from TSAB comes looking for his lost partner kind of cheap.
Lost partner? Keroko was supposed to be there, remember? She's on an undercover mission.
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Old 2008-07-28, 06:47   Link #3052
Jimmy C
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Keroko View Post
and we know Mahora accepts students with virtualy no background.
Not with completely no background. For every one of those "mysterious new students" I'm sure at least one teacher knows their past and vouched for them or are watching over them. Still, give them a convincing "normal" background, and the faculty should buy it.

Quote:
the mage who erased her magic simply commanded the spell to 'erase all knowledge of magic' being that Keroko is Mid-born, and pretty much her entire life on Mid revolved around magic, almost her entire memory got erased, except her time at Mahora.
Assuming you're going with the start at Mahora angle, you can have her arrive well before the school year starts to "live in" her cover identity. Then, a day or two before the school year starts, she decides to scout the place... and gets zapped. By who? Let's assume it was a newbie like Collet, who panicked and ran after zapping her, assuming everything would be okay since her victim just fell unconcious. If it was a teacher, he or she would definitely have stuck around to check on her.
It just occurred to me that, if you established her cover well enough and if she had "lived" it long enough, she might not even realise she's missing a huge chunk of her memories!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Keroko View Post
Lost partner? Keroko was supposed to be there, remember? She's on an undercover mission.
I just realised that you can't have Keroko be on a "routine" undercover mission from the TSAB. Such missions would have regular schedules for making contact. Without her memories, she'd be out of contact for over a year. Then, they'd definitely send someone to find out what happened to her.
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Old 2008-07-28, 06:58   Link #3053
Keroko
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Originally Posted by Jimmy C View Post
Not with completely no background. For every one of those "mysterious new students" I'm sure at least one teacher knows their past and vouched for them or are watching over them. Still, give them a convincing "normal" background, and the faculty should buy it.
Chao.

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Originally Posted by Jimmy C View Post
Assuming you're going with the start at Mahora angle, you can have her arrive well before the school year starts to "live in" her cover identity. Then, a day or two before the school year starts, she decides to scout the place... and gets zapped. By who? Let's assume it was a newbie like Collet, who panicked and ran after zapping her, assuming everything would be okay since her victim just fell unconcious. If it was a teacher, he or she would definitely have stuck around to check on her.
It just occurred to me that, if you established her cover well enough and if she had "lived" it long enough, she might not even realise she's missing a huge chunk of her memories!
I was planning to have her move into Mahora in her first year, so basically she would have been around Mahora for close to two years before Negima begins. If she was zapped some time before that, she would have lived in Mahora for that time as well, which means she would know her cover story inside out. Erasing allmost all her memories, her mind fell back to what she still remembered, which ended up being the cover story. So while there is always a nagging sense that there is something missing (no cover story can ever replace a full life) she continues to live a fake life, untill the Mahora tournament.

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I just realised that you can't have Keroko be on a "routine" undercover mission from the TSAB. Such missions would have regular schedules for making contact. Without her memories, she'd be out of contact for over a year. Then, they'd definitely send someone to find out what happened to her.
I picture the contact not be regular, but rather rare. She is there to study, not to spy, she is not meant to have any hostile contact at all. She's more like a natural researcher then a spy in hostile teritory. She lives among the inhabitants, documents, and files her reports when she returns after the research is done. Even if she were discovered, the matter was supposed to be handled diplomatically rather then violently, and in fact, when she recovers her memories, she realizes that since she is no longer a 'normal' student, she might as well spill the beans to the headmaster, which she does.
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Old 2008-07-28, 07:02   Link #3054
Kha
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Originally Posted by Keroko View Post
Possible somewhat off-topic, but a newsflash just came in.
YES!!!!!!!! and NOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!

Yes for new CCs to play with for the Licht von Belka. YES for Erio x Caro. SUPER YES for free hair Teana. NOOOOOOOOO for another season; StrikeR2 just died. T_T

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*tilts head* How so?
Keroko can become a classmate easily. Kouya'd... has to disguise himself as a puppy or a trap.

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[Khrack]So what if Nove's original was, in fact, this sentoukijin Keroko? Her temperament would have been inherited from the original, which was a fast moving Belkan using combat mage.[/khrack]

Utilizing the dropped Hikaru concept for the new Sentoukijin Keroko. Brainwaves are awesome.
Indeed they are. :3

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We'll see, like I said, if the progress of the Negima manga turns it to a point where I'm not satisfied with it, I may end up scrapping it.
We spent one season dodging Ion Canon shots; it'll be fun to do it again.

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Wait, Keroko ranks that high to you?
Eto...

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Lost partner? Keroko was supposed to be there, remember? She's on an undercover mission.
No I meant, let's say Teana goes on an undercover mission, something goes wrong and she goes missing. If a rescue mission is then attempted, wouldn't Subaru, even though she's not even in the same force, but were old friends, volunteer or even beg to be on that team?

Let's say Kouya's a mage already in the TSAB, and were old buddies with Keroko, went to same academy, stuff like that. Maybe Kouya has a one-sided affection but never had the guts to open his mouth. Then Keroko's latest mission goes to hell, and he hears of it. TSA big shots think spending resources to recover 1 recon mage isn't worth it, and so Kouya goes around knocking on doors, until Lindy and Chrono answer, and agree to help him.

The wrangling process takes a while, so in the meantime Keroko has all those adventures happening on Earth, learning more about herself than she ever knew. Kouya with a small team arrive some time after Mahorafest, meets up with Keroko, but she completely does not remember anything of him, and does not wish to leave Mahora. A misunderstanding ensues, and Negi jumps to her aide, mage fight erupts, things calm down... But Keroko remains adamant.

Faced with that, Kouya stays behind and agrees to take over Keroko's mission. Things progress from there...


...any conflict? But it's horribly cheap, since I feel like I'm taking advantage of an amnesiac person. ><





EDIT: New info on the Nanoha movie.
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Old 2008-07-28, 07:08   Link #3055
AdmiralTigerclaw
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Originally Posted by Kha View Post

No I meant, let's say Teana goes on an undercover mission, something goes wrong and she goes missing. If a rescue mission is then attempted, wouldn't Subaru, even though she's not even in the same force, but were old friends, volunteer or even beg to be on that team?

Let's say Kouya's a mage already in the TSAB, and were old buddies with Keroko, went to same academy, stuff like that. Maybe Kouya has a one-sided affection but never had the guts to open his mouth. Then Keroko's latest mission goes to hell, and he hears of it. TSA big shots think spending resources to recover 1 recon mage isn't worth it, and so Kouya goes around knocking on doors, until Lindy and Chrono answer, and agree to help him.

The wrangling process takes a while, so in the meantime Keroko has all those adventures happening on Earth, learning more about herself than she ever knew. Kouya with a small team arrive some time after Mahorafest, meets up with Keroko, but she completely does not remember anything of him, and does not wish to leave Mahora. A misunderstanding ensues, and Negi jumps to her aide, mage fight erupts, things calm down... But Keroko remains adamant.

Faced with that, Kouya stays behind and agrees to take over Keroko's mission. Things progress from there...


...any conflict? But it's horribly cheap, since I feel like I'm taking advantage of an amnesiac person. ><
*Sniff sniff sniff...*


Burnt smell?

Hmm..

Too contrived.

If you have to jump through too many Special Plot Induced Stupidity hoops to make it work, your approach is wrong in the first place.
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Old 2008-07-28, 07:16   Link #3056
Kha
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Originally Posted by AdmiralTigerclaw View Post
*Sniff sniff sniff...*


Burnt smell?

Hmm..

Too contrived.

If you have to jump through too many Special Plot Induced Stupidity hoops to make it work, your approach is wrong in the first place.
Erm... Mind repeating that in English? My sense of reality sometimes is different from yours so what looks obvious to you might not be so to me...
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Old 2008-07-28, 07:21   Link #3057
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Hmm, a small problem I ran into, Keroko is not wielding any form of Device in the builds we have so far. Devices are a pretty core part of Nanohaverse, so having Keroko not using one feels... somewhat empty. Now, this is no real problem, but when I went thinking what kind of Device she would wield, my mind made a screeching halt at an old and abandoned idea.

Fate's sword-chucks Riot Blades.

This would mean a complete revise on her pactio, most likely reverting back to the Relic one, but its something that's quite relevant to the Nanoha part of the fusion.

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Keroko can become a classmate easily. Kouya'd... has to disguise himself as a puppy or a trap.
Ah yes, that's why.

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Originally Posted by Kha View Post
Indeed they are. :3
Or perhaps I can throw Uomo through another Rebuilt, this time making both name and gender suffer as well. Decisions decisions decisions.

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Originally Posted by Kha View Post
We spent one season dodging Ion Canon shots; it'll be fun to do it again.


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Originally Posted by Kha View Post
Eto...
I... see...

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Originally Posted by Kha View Post
No I meant, let's say Teana goes on an undercover mission, something goes wrong and she goes missing. If a rescue mission is then attempted, wouldn't Subaru, even though she's not even in the same force, but were old friends, volunteer or even beg to be on that team?

Let's say Kouya's a mage already in the TSAB, and were old buddies with Keroko, went to same academy, stuff like that. Maybe Kouya has a one-sided affection but never had the guts to open his mouth. Then Keroko's latest mission goes to hell, and he hears of it. TSA big shots think spending resources to recover 1 recon mage isn't worth it, and so Kouya goes around knocking on doors, until Lindy and Chrono answer, and agree to help him.

The wrangling process takes a while, so in the meantime Keroko has all those adventures happening on Earth, learning more about herself than she ever knew. Kouya with a small team arrive some time after Mahorafest, meets up with Keroko, but she completely does not remember anything of him, and does not wish to leave Mahora. A misunderstanding ensues, and Negi jumps to her aide, mage fight erupts, things calm down... But Keroko remains adamant.

Faced with that, Kouya stays behind and agrees to take over Keroko's mission. Things progress from there...


...any conflict? But it's horribly cheap, since I feel like I'm taking advantage of an amnesiac person. ><
Plenty of conflict. First off, Keroko's mission wasn't supposed to be of hostile nature, she's more of a natural observer then a spy, so she doesn't need to report regularely (and from an observational standpoint from ships in orbit, everything seems to be in order). Secondly, Keroko begins to rapidly recover her memories after the tournament arc, so having people come knocking would only help to advance her recovery rather then hinder it.
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Old 2008-07-28, 07:42   Link #3058
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Contrivances, tend to be points of plot that seem so reliant on a diceroll, that they are just unbelievable.

If you have too many events that couldn't happen easier that they seem to almost require the luck of a millionaire gambler to come to reality, your entire approach may actually be flawed because the believability suffers extensively.

With the sheer number of coincidences or Plot Induced Stupidity in some places, you can cripple the story trying to keep all the simple answers from resolving the problem so you can have the drama of the complicated one, and thus you fight with Occam's Razor itself.

Now, I've been skimming silently, getting bits and pieces here and there of the Negima crossover plotting that's been going on... and I can't help but feel that in attempting to drive the two universes together, attempts to do so are simply becoming far too determined.

Especially when the whole Amnesia thing came about. The Amnesia in itself is a Plot Contrivance and a cliche, and I noted almost immediately when it was challenged, you had to come up with an excuse, or rather, more contrivances in order to make it function, and to make those function, even more unlikely events.

Things really start to look contrived when official members of a buraucracy decide under a sudden bout of plot induced stupidity, that someone whom they pay to perform a risky job (Undercover work is not a joke), and have to Insure and Invest resources and money in for training, materials, and mission planning, suddenly isn't worth the resource value to send a search and rescue party. I don't know about your personal world, but trained and experienced operatives are not 'cheap'. And we know Buraucracies love their Bottom Line.

As the contrivances stack, the collective jaws of the people reading start to drop...

I suggest you start investigating your villainy to see how the contivances can be weaved together into a deliberate plot. (And I mean more than simply throwing Chao Lingshen at it and calling it an excuse.) If you can't find a plausable way to seal the plot up that way, step back and observe just how believable things are. You'd be surprised how much gambling you're doing.

I'd much rather prefer events that don't make me feel like I walked into the Magical Girl Lyrical Casino.
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Old 2008-07-28, 07:52   Link #3059
Keroko
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Originally Posted by AdmiralTigerclaw View Post
Especially when the whole Amnesia thing came about. The Amnesia in itself is a Plot Contrivance and a cliche, and I noted almost immediately when it was challenged, you had to come up with an excuse, or rather, more contrivances in order to make it function, and to make those function, even more unlikely events.
Memory erasing is a set and theme in the Negimaverse, and is suggested to be common aproach when people discover magic.

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Originally Posted by AdmiralTigerclaw View Post
Things really start to look contrived when official members of a buraucracy decide under a sudden bout of plot induced stupidity, that someone whom they pay to perform a risky job (Undercover work is not a joke), and have to Insure and Invest resources and money in for training, materials, and mission planning, suddenly isn't worth the resource value to send a search and rescue party. I don't know about your personal world, but trained and experienced operatives are not 'cheap'. And we know Buraucracies love their Bottom Line.
*sigh* Perhaps I made a mistake choosing to use a militairy term. I should have expected I'd get trouble with it. I should just have said 'research' which would have gotten me away without this, and since that's basically what she does. I used undercover because the attempt is to gain information without the mages knowing so, but discovery doesn't mean the mission is a failure, just that hiding is no longer needed and diplomacy has to be used.

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Originally Posted by AdmiralTigerclaw View Post
I suggest you start investigating your villainy to see how the contivances can be weaved together into a deliberate plot. (And I mean more than simply throwing Chao Lingshen at it and calling it an excuse.) If you can't find a plausable way to seal the plot up that way, step back and observe just how believable things are. You'd be surprised how much gambling you're doing.
I'm not touching Chao in terms of the amnesia, in fact even the ending can be scrapped, I just liked the connection. As it stands that part will be changed anyway.
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Old 2008-07-28, 07:58   Link #3060
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The main point though is. How may plot relevant events take place that involve more or less a roll of the dice to come to pass?

I'm not saying you can't get around it. I'm simply warning that if you start using diceroll events to justify or set up diceroll events so your plot can roll how you want it, you're stacking contrivances and going nowhere fast. (Just like NASCAR.) And at that point, your approach to the execution of the plot may need to be worked on.


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