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Old 2008-07-30, 10:00   Link #3101
Comartemis
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Join Date: Mar 2008
Age: 27
I came up with a solution to the Hayate shafting while I was working with Kagerou and I thought I'd share it.

Stop me if you've heard this one before:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Comartemis
However even if you don't go back and retcon Hayate's weakness, there's no reason you can't use it to your advantage. Think of Hayate's "too much magic" problem as similar to Naruto's "too much chakra" problem and overcome it in the same way; by making careful use of superpowered spells that don't require a whole lot of control (Kage Bunshin as opposed to regular bunshins) and in fact depend on having a lot of magic available. This is why I think Hayate would do well as a melee-oriented mage rather than a ranged fighter like Nanoha; her ranged spells will no doubt acquire large areas of effect (assuming she can even make something small and control-intensive like an Axel Shooter) and possibly endanger her allies in skirmishes like the aerial battle outside the Saint's Cradle, but her magic-enhanced melee spells will only hit that much harder if she supercharges them with more magic than they need, and her shields--particularly the Aura-class defensive spells which look kind of like you just flood your immediate surroundings with magic.--could match or exceed Yuuno's in pure defensive power if she puts her usual amount of power into them.
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Old 2008-07-30, 10:10   Link #3102
Kyral
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Join Date: Oct 2007
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*looks at more high-res scan of StrikerS CD*

WhatwhatwhatwhatWHATWHATWHAT!?!?!?



Oi Scarface! My character was first!!

lulz

(And Caro with long hair is: )


Anyway... here is my "Movie Version" Elric

Spoiler for Elric Thron in Movie Barrier Jacket:
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Old 2008-07-30, 10:22   Link #3103
Tormenk
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kha View Post
@Thread: I recall mentioning in the IRC thread that the Tome of Devotion's (in 5th Ed is renamed Tome of Daylight, using the nomenclature set by the Night Sky) role in the Pilgrim Duels, along with the other 2 books Night Sky and Twin Moons, was to record the Linker Core of the winning Hero and grant his wish, strengthening the Light within the book and showering blessings upon the mortal realm. Daylight recorded an image of the victor's device. Images that Kha draws upon in his Traces during the last quarter of Cente Gravia, when he attains the Tome and pursues Kluize.

As I was reading Negima...
Spoiler for The Sarcastic Librarian:
...it seems that Ken Akamatsu agrees to that logic, to a certain extent.
This just reminded me of something similar I had in mind before, namely for the Storyteller OC I have been building with a similar concept highlighted here.

Thanks for the reminder Kha.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dkellis View Post
Spoiler for random:
Quite the drama-queen side of Lumina. Nicely brought out here. (^^b)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Liingo View Post

@Tormenk:
You were right, it was random. But I see alot of sentences that you could use with Katrina and the like.

Hope you get out of the fic writing slump!
It's mixed up rather evenly to focus on the Aces and mostly OCs, like Keroko and Aurion and Katrina, along with Jec.

Haven decide how the events would occur, or to connect them together..frankly the difficulty in deciding how to approach writing is probably the greatest roadblock I encounter frequently.

Though it doesn't help I'm busy with work most of the time.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kyral View Post
Aaaaaaaallright, minna-saaaan!

Thanks to Liingos( ) awsome help with my grammar, I'm now able to present you my next chapter in terms of bloody history and Elric/Rinya goodness... (or something like that xD)

Memories of Blood and Sorrow
Part 6: Her circumstances.


Spoiler:


Well... that's it...
Next time I will post my Movie Version of Elrics BJ.

Byebye!

*runs but is glomped by Cadia-tan befor he can escape*

Urks~!
Favorable outcome seems to be a deadly catchphrase around Carnage.

I'm liking the direction you have taken for Elric's (eventual) downward path. Simple and effective.

Quote:
Originally Posted by AdmiralTigerclaw View Post
The best kind of spell! One developed by master mages for "Extremely Dangerous Offensive Attacks"... Just like the Legendary Anything-Goes martial arts techniques of the martial arts master Happosai. Of course, the only spell more important will be the one that allows the user to 'safely recover' the 'Special Protective Garments' of an active female mage in live combat.



Remember... Just as Happy would say. The Pervasive (SEE: Perverted) Magic System (PMS) is an important and powerful set of combat magics that is a highly respected magical art known to a minute few.
Hence forth, let the birth of the peaceful movement of disarming magic take flight.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Estavali View Post
Kagerou's new work => Outer Cadia: The Movie? =3
That sounds awesomely epic straight off the bat. >=3
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Old 2008-07-30, 10:38   Link #3104
Kagerou
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Liingo View Post
@Kagerou:
Re: Zirnitra
While I get how Phantom Assasin would lead to a person's death, how exactly does Nightmare lead to the same result. Ie someone's worse nightmare may be on their partner dieing, while in another case it is their own death.

Also, on these 2 spells, time period to death? I'd assume it's not an instant thing but more of they're so immersed in the illusion that they don't eat/sleep/etc and thus die in X days.
These spells have been patched, actually. Instead of rendering a person dead, it simply knocks them out. The fear/shock factor is enough to render them unconscious.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Liingo View Post
On Misleading Image, I'd be bumping the drain up to AA or AAA (mainly due to the speed at which it occurs)
AA perhaps, then.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Liingo View Post
Re: Karewit
You'll have to check with Kha with this since I'm not sure myself what happens to the body when one is dead, but the Rez spell isn't exactly one that fits with canon. I wouldn't be having the spell work after much more than a few minutes (dead) , not to mention that if the spell works (and even if it doesn't) that she should be bed ridden for a few days at least.
To be honest, the way I see it is that the spell should be feasible. We have medical technology in real life that can literally bring someone back from the dead, so I don't see how magic would be unable to achieve the same thing.

That said, this isn't super-magic; there are factors that must be in place. For starters, the body must be whole - there can't be any missing vital organs or body parts. Secondly, the nature of the death must be put into consideration; if you die from old age, rez is impossible; death by a gunshot wound, then yes, it's possible.

Finally, consider that this is essentially her "Limit Break" spell. As such, it requires a shitload of mana to cast; think of it as using 105% of her mana. And you're right; after using this spell she's out of commission for a while, thus it's only used in the most dire of circumstances where a certain person dying is simply not an option.

tl;dr: If they can bring Zest back then dammnit I can make someone who can rez

Quote:
Originally Posted by Liingo View Post
The background and history of the black order and it's members is looking to be awesome in scope, but there's still some things to be adressed.
Indeed. Hence why I'm getting the help of members across the thread.
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Old 2008-07-30, 10:44   Link #3105
Kha
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@Kyral: That's called Synchro. Like how Erio almost completely matched Kha when he was a kid.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dkellis View Post
Spoiler for random:
I swear I saw Amelia, Gourry, and Lina there. Half expected someone from TSAB show up and say "I'm Inspector Wiser Flayon of Ruvingald. ".



Quote:
Originally Posted by Liingo View Post
Re: Karewit
You'll have to check with Kha with this since I'm not sure myself what happens to the body when one is dead, but the Rez spell isn't exactly one that fits with canon. I wouldn't be having the spell work after much more than a few minutes (dead) , not to mention that if the spell works (and even if it doesn't) that she should be bed ridden for a few days at least.

The background and history of the black order and it's members is looking to be awesome in scope, but there's still some things to be adressed.
Current clinical techniques and machinery can revive people who have flatlined for 1 hour, with a 50% success rate. While I believe the same rule applies to magic, since its dependent on how much metabolic poison the body can take while flatlining without suffering permanent damage rather than how powerful is the resurrection spell, I also advocate that a magically strengthened body can last longer, meaning magical healers have a longer "Golden Hour" to work with. Just add a time limit to the time of death (6 hours at room temperature is about the maximum IMO ), and have some side-effects, you should do fine.

As for whether there's permanent damage, revival after 6hrs should show something brain damage. No idea if Midchilda medicine can reverse that. Technically, the skies the limit here; The limits I place here and there are roughly based off injecting the dream tools that a medical practitioner drools about into a magical realm to push the limits of human survival to the max; with proper justification, it should work.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kyral View Post
Aaaaaaaallright, minna-saaaan!

Thanks to Liingos( ) awsome help with my grammar, I'm now able to present you my next chapter in terms of bloody history and Elric/Rinya goodness... (or something like that xD)

Memories of Blood and Sorrow
Part 6: Her circumstances.


Spoiler:


Well... that's it...
Next time I will post my Movie Version of Elrics BJ.

Byebye!

*runs but is glomped by Cadia-tan befor he can escape*

Urks~!
Freud would have a field day dissecting Elric's dream.

...Movie Version?!

Maybe I should get one. Elder!Erio's been released after all, though he's half obscured by Caro.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Comartemis View Post
I came up with a solution to the Hayate shafting while I was working with Kagerou and I thought I'd share it.

Stop me if you've heard this one before:
Just need to point out she can be more powerful at melee, but she's not a robot that can simply redirect power to shields or lasers at a flick of a switch; learning these skills from scratch will take time, which then reflects how adaptive Hayate is. Nanoha and Fate backgrounds all have something to do with close quarters combat, Hayate is literally an Otaku who woke up and discovered that she's a magical girl, so to her this will be more foreign, and will take significant amount of time to even come close to the other 2's level of mastery.

But I don't see why she can't attempt to do something about it, like Shiro training with Saber in Fate/Stay Night. His result was still LOL-worthy, but it did cover for some areas.
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Old 2008-07-30, 10:54   Link #3106
Keroko
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kha View Post
Just need to point out she can be more powerful at melee, but she's not a robot that can simply redirect power to shields or lasers at a flick of a switch;
Technically, they can. Even using shields and firing at the same time has been shown to be possible.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kha View Post
Hayate is literally an Otaku who woke up and discovered that she's a magical girl, so to her this will be more foreign, and will take significant amount of time to even come close to the other 2's level of mastery.
Nanoha's melee 'mastery' isn't so great as you make it out to be. If all she did was watching her brother and sister train, then Hayate can catch up to her level pretty quick (Nanoha has enough skill to hold her ground against melee oponents, but not to defeat them in melee). For Hayate, simply having her train in it should work. Nobody questioned how a nine-year-old Fate could be an expert melee-combatant, I don't see why Hayate should.
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Old 2008-07-30, 10:59   Link #3107
Wild Goose
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Liingo View Post
Re: Karewit
You'll have to check with Kha with this since I'm not sure myself what happens to the body when one is dead, but the Rez spell isn't exactly one that fits with canon. I wouldn't be having the spell work after much more than a few minutes (dead) , not to mention that if the spell works (and even if it doesn't) that she should be bed ridden for a few days at least.
I was under the impression that for it to work, death had to be really recent. *shrugs* Most of the time when dead people are revived with modern medical technology and technique, it's when death has happened very recently. A famous example are the shock paddles for restarting the heart.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kagerou View Post
To be honest, the way I see it is that the spell should be feasible. We have medical technology in real life that can literally bring someone back from the dead, so I don't see how magic would be unable to achieve the same thing.

That said, this isn't super-magic; there are factors that must be in place. For starters, the body must be whole - there can't be any missing vital organs or body parts. Secondly, the nature of the death must be put into consideration; if you die from old age, rez is impossible; death by a gunshot wound, then yes, it's possible.

Finally, consider that this is essentially her "Limit Break" spell. As such, it requires a shitload of mana to cast; think of it as using 105% of her mana. And you're right; after using this spell she's out of commission for a while, thus it's only used in the most dire of circumstances where a certain person dying is simply not an option.

tl;dr: If they can bring Zest back then dammnit I can make someone who can rez
A couple of qualifiers on the medical tech issue: in most of the cases where dead people have been revived, death has been fairly short. As Kha will no doubt say, the most famous example are the paddles. CPR can also resucitate a person, but again needs to be done quickly.

I'd also like to point out that if you're going to rez someone who's dead of a bullet wound, Rena-chan's still gonna need to take the bullet out or she'll just heal the person... at which point said person will die all over again from the bullet that's still in them. (Unless it's a HE/API bullet, or DU, where the bullet disintergrates into a flaming shotgun shell-like effect. With DU, the effect is a flaming shotgun shell from hell.) Though obviously that'd be a job for Val Kozlov, ace battlefield medic, crack shot, Nebraska Farmgirl and mother of seven daughters. XD

*Memo to self: write more Veri/Val for TF6*
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Old 2008-07-30, 11:34   Link #3108
Kha
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Keroko View Post
Technically, they can. Even using shields and firing at the same time has been shown to be possible.
I was assuming without Rein synchro'd in, since Swertkreuz or Tome doesn't have an AI.

With a UD, things change indeed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Keroko View Post
Nanoha's melee 'mastery' isn't so great as you make it out to be. If all she did was watching her brother and sister train, then Hayate can catch up to her level pretty quick (Nanoha has enough skill to hold her ground against melee oponents, but not to defeat them in melee). For Hayate, simply having her train in it should work. Nobody questioned how a nine-year-old Fate could be an expert melee-combatant, I don't see why Hayate should.
Fate was grinded to do so by Precia IIRC, but yeah Nanoha's a little shaky.

Still, the most I can give Hayate more weapon skill; Fate can, and maybe Nanoha was born with fast reflexes and so could get by; but Hayate, can she track the really fast changes that close in order to really excel at H2H range?

(DISCLAIMER: This line of thought has been heavily influenced by Tau fluff about why they can't melee. )
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Old 2008-07-30, 11:36   Link #3109
Arkeus
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ok, stupid question...

But where does Yuuno's supposed Super defence comes from?

Yes, we see him Surviving against vita all of two minutes. Do keep in mind though that Vita at that time didn't even use "Deadly Punishment", much less a cartridge.

I do beleive that yuuno specialise in defence. But not that he is any stronger than Nanoha in it (in fact, he is probably weaker than her), as she did manage two round shields at once, and her "injuries" came from lack of control in body-enhancing spell without her BJ (remember, she did destroy the rough with her foot's pressure).

Yuuno, i think, fights the way he does because his control is extremely high. His binds and spells are either linked to him or "static" like barriers, spells that he probably ask for more control than power. Frankly, i don't think that yuuno *could* use much more than basi attack spell that wee see mook enforcer use against precia.

I'll put Yuuno as, in power, C rank, and in Effectiveness, A rank.

But maybe i am wrong and i missed something.

I have a few questions more to ask later on, as i am bitten by the Negima/Nanoha plot bunny too :XD

Edit:

Nanoha Canonicly is bad at sport. she proably is better in Traingle heart's Original Universe, but she never got training i think yet in MGLN, and is shown as being "Bad" in A's manga.

Last edited by Arkeus; 2008-07-30 at 11:38. Reason: Wants to respond to another post
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Old 2008-07-30, 11:49   Link #3110
Estavali
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kha View Post
I was assuming without Rein synchro'd in, since Swertkreuz or Tome doesn't have an AI.

With a UD, things change indeed.

Fate was grinded to do so by Precia IIRC, but yeah Nanoha's a little shaky.

Still, the most I can give Hayate more weapon skill; Fate can, and maybe Nanoha was born with fast reflexes and so could get by; but Hayate, can she track the really fast changes that close in order to really excel at H2H range?

(DISCLAIMER: This line of thought has been heavily influenced by Tau fluff about why they can't melee. )
My take is that you also need to be at least physically fit to be a good melee magus. Take a look at all the Knights, including Erio. Save for Shamal who is a support character, everyone of them are at least atheletic and capable of fighting without magic enhancement. Imho physical enhancement via mana boost is not as easy as we might think. The melee-oriented magus/knight need to be strong enough to endure the strain it conveys to the body and if the user is an invalid, that user is not going to last long, either as a combatant or as something with a timespan that will be cut shorter by the burnout.

Thus comes the challenge for Hayate's change into a melee-oriented magus/knight imho. She will need to be at least achieve a suitable level of physical fitness and that will need time, especially if you consider how long she has been straddled to that wheelchair. It's not impossible but it is going to be tough for the first couple of years for her. She will need to undergo physical conditioning first to get her into shape, and then a continuous, un-interrupted training schedule to build up and maintain her physical strength and endurance.

My 2 cents
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Old 2008-07-30, 12:04   Link #3111
PhoenixFlare
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kha View Post
Current clinical techniques and machinery can revive people who have flatlined for 1 hour, with a 50% success rate. While I believe the same rule applies to magic, since its dependent on how much metabolic poison the body can take while flatlining without suffering permanent damage rather than how powerful is the resurrection spell, I also advocate that a magically strengthened body can last longer, meaning magical healers have a longer "Golden Hour" to work with. Just add a time limit to the time of death (6 hours at room temperature is about the maximum IMO ), and have some side-effects, you should do fine.

As for whether there's permanent damage, revival after 6hrs should show something brain damage. No idea if Midchilda medicine can reverse that. Technically, the skies the limit here; The limits I place here and there are roughly based off injecting the dream tools that a medical practitioner drools about into a magical realm to push the limits of human survival to the max; with proper justification, it should work.
At this point, we're assuming that everything in work to revive the person is optimum; that is, we have all the necessary equipment, speed, technology, life support devices, contamination free, etc. These small factors, while not much, contribute to the revival.

For magical means, however, this is essentially difficult to achieve. I'm not sure how Kagerou decides to pull this (I was thinking battle medic scene), but anywhere out of the ICU or surgery room with only a single magical healer around is pretty much pushing the boundary of the said limitations. The healer may have the necessary power (we'll assume it works like a defibrillator/drug injector/stimulator, etc.), but without supporting devices (feeding tubes, pacemakers, mechanical respirator, etc.), he should not be able to resurrect a person, only extend the Golden Hour before the point of no return.

The widely acceptable (and less ambiguous) medical condition for death at present is brain death -- cessation of brain activities for extended periods of time. Regardless of the Golden Hour, a dead person should stay dead and not be resurrected.

For Zest's case, we're assuming that he had been sent to the grave and was brain-dead before he was literally resurrected (as opposed to extension of Golden Hour). However, Cinque, who happened to critically injure him, might have taken him quickly to a preservation unit before he was "brought back to life" via Jail's manipulation. Of course, even the doctor seemed to fail to restore full functions, and Zest's body suffered degeneration soonafter. These two seem similar, but it's really different, and that makes all the difference.

P/S: In case anyone doesn't understand what I'm rambling about, I'm contending between "literal resurrection" (such as magic and necromancy) and "technical resurrection" (such as thawing a cold-preserved person).
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Old 2008-07-30, 12:17   Link #3112
Evangelion Xgouki
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kha View Post
Another intriguing piece of Khrack hit me just now, and even for the World of Negiha, Kouya may be dropped completely. In his place would be someone from the other side...
Spoiler for Kha...:
...the Death Knight.

EDIT: Baah maintenance night. Maybe Caa the Cleric can be up tonight.
*reverses his Death Grip spell to send Kha flying through the air*

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kyral View Post
Damn this Nanoha Movie...

Since I saw those magazin scans a image of Elric with red stripes on the sides of his coat and a Carnage with rounder edges is spooking through my brain...

Maybe I will draw it... maybe not...
You know you want to

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kyral View Post
On the other hand... I already have a AU Elric (and Hayate/Keroko/Shamsel ).
*cackles in the background*

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kyral View Post
...

Thanks to you I will now be unable to sleep because my brain will spit out different design combinations like hell...

*sigh*

Well... it so damn hot here that I won't sleep anyway... so I think it's nothing bad...

I will get something on paper tomorrow...
Might as well make use off the time you have from not being able to sleep then, huh?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aaron008R View Post
@___@

*removes microscope and stabs back with a telescope* >>>:3
Bigger is better?

...except in terms of chest size. DFC is ALWAYS WIN!!!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aaron008R View Post
*counter-cross-stabs with a large fireball* :3 :3 :3
...stab with a fireball?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aaron008R View Post
*is punted* @_@

What?! >_>
Just be glad you didn't put Evangeline on that chart of I would have used my Evangelion's FOOT instead

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kha View Post
@______@

*removes telescope and stabs back with the Hubble space telescope* >>>>:3
I don't think NASA appreciates that, Kha

Quote:
Originally Posted by dkellis View Post
Spoiler for random:
Random is random . Wonder what poor Fate got herself into this time...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kyral View Post
Aaaaaaaallright, minna-saaaan!

Thanks to Liingos( ) awsome help with my grammar, I'm now able to present you my next chapter in terms of bloody history and Elric/Rinya goodness... (or something like that xD)

Memories of Blood and Sorrow
Part 6: Her circumstances.


Spoiler:


Well... that's it...
Next time I will post my Movie Version of Elrics BJ.

Byebye!

*runs but is glomped by Cadia-tan befor he can escape*

Urks~!
Yay! It continues

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kyral View Post
Anyway... here is my "Movie Version" Elric

Spoiler for Elric Thron in Movie Barrier Jacket:
So the stripes have won, huh?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kha View Post
Just need to point out she can be more powerful at melee, but she's not a robot that can simply redirect power to shields or lasers at a flick of a switch; learning these skills from scratch will take time, which then reflects how adaptive Hayate is. Nanoha and Fate backgrounds all have something to do with close quarters combat, Hayate is literally an Otaku who woke up and discovered that she's a magical girl, so to her this will be more foreign, and will take significant amount of time to even come close to the other 2's level of mastery.
Well, Hayate is already highly skilled in hand to hand chest 'combat'
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Old 2008-07-30, 16:35   Link #3113
stormturmoil
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Just to further address Comartemis' issue about super charged melee proficiency...

you also have to consider that in certain circumstances, too much mana could destabilise the spells, or, possibly, cause harmful effects through them

For example, an overcharged reinforcement spell might not only lead to movements being uncontrollable due to too much power, it could also cause self-inflicted injuries because the user's body cannot take the strain, even with the spell's reinforcement ( that is, strength boost=/=toughness/endurance boost.)

Much as Berserkers had hysterical strength, but could also suffer ruined muscles, shattered bones and damaged tendons and ligaments because the power they were exerting was more than their bodies could withstand.

This could also be an issue with other kinds of spells too.

I examined this with my own character, and eventually decided that for his spells he would have to use limiter Control Devices to prevent him using too much power and causing harmful effects, such as:

Healing spells that are overcharged can cause Cancerous growth or autoimmune disorders. They can also cause bones to fuse improperly

Enhancement spells that can cause self inflicted physical strain injuries. Damage to muscles or nerves caused by over saturation with mana. possibly even simulated mana burn injuries

Also, clumsiness caused by an inability to control the increased strength or adapt to reduced reaction times, leading to lack of coordination (also, becoming an Easy Target problems too).

Malnutrition and vitamin/mineral deficiencies caused by spells redirecting nutrients away from body maintenance for regeneration healing or muscle enhancement

Shields and barriers that are too enclosing, and not only stop attacks, but also other effects, leading for example to them becoming opaque because they stop all light, leaving the user blindsided, or suffocation because the barrier prevents movement of air.

Attack spells whose recoil is potentially so strong as to be harmful; also, overpenetration issues, though certain Character's (they know who they are...) might not particularly take issue with this...


So, It is possible that if you choose to follow this kind of model that Too much power could in certain circumstances be even worse than not enough...
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Old 2008-07-30, 16:40   Link #3114
Arkeus
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stormturmoil View Post

So, It is possible that if you choose to follow this kind of model that Too much power could in certain circumstances be even worse than not enough...
QFT

I beleive overcharging spells that effect someone is a *very* bad thing. Hell, one part of the proble mwith the "blaster" system is that it puts too much magical energy in Nanoha, which destroy her.

I believe that any kind of spell will at least "overflow" iif you put too much strength behind it (the spell is not made to endure that much power, so magic is leaking into the user/target's body).

If the user/targer already is the beneficiary to a mass heal/reinforcement it wouldn't surprise me that the excess magical energy goes straight to erode the mage life expectancy.

Not Good.
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Old 2008-07-30, 16:47   Link #3115
Keroko
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I was assuming without Rein synchro'd in, since Swertkreuz or Tome doesn't have an AI.

With a UD, things change indeed.
I wasn't talking about Unision, you know. Nanoha already used Divine Shooter while having a shield raised in the first season.

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Fate was grinded to do so by Precia IIRC,
Nine year old, Kha. Nine. Realism took a hike then, why can't it for Hayate?

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you also have to consider that in certain circumstances, too much mana could destabilise the spells, or, possibly, cause harmful effects through them

For example, an overcharged reinforcement spell might not only lead to movements being uncontrollable due to too much power, it could also cause self-inflicted injuries because the user's body cannot take the strain, even with the spell's reinforcement ( that is, strength boost=/=toughness/endurance boost.)
That would defy the purpose of the boost in the first place, which is to allow the body to handle the strain. Now, this is overanalyizing things (but then, a lot of your further analysis is overanalying things as well) but a concidering the magic is called reinforcement magic, its logical to believe that it reinforces the body to not only deal the damage, but to take the strain as well. So a supercharged melee attack would be acompanied by the propper reinforcement of the body.

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Shields and barriers that are too enclosing, and not only stop attacks, but also other effects, leading for example to them becoming opaque because they stop all light, leaving the user blindsided, or suffocation because the barrier prevents movement of air.
No canon proof of this. In fact, shield strength tends to be unoticable by appearance alone.
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Old 2008-07-30, 16:51   Link #3116
Arkeus
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That would defy the purpose of the boost in the first place, which is to allow the body to handle the strain. Now, this is overanalyizing things (but then, a lot of your further analysis is overanalying things as well) but a concidering the magic is called reinforcement magic, its logical to believe that it reinforces the body to not only deal the damage, but to take the strain as well. So a supercharged melee attack would be acompanied by the propper reinforcement of the body.
Mmmmh yes, but that's with basic and known spell. There is quite a few ewemples of how experimental spells, or spells used when the user is not in an optimal condition (Zest and Nanoha) can be harmful.

How do you explain !zest's problem with his "full drive", if it's not that his new body is not solid enough to withstand the additional magic leaking from the spell?
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Old 2008-07-30, 16:54   Link #3117
Keroko
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Good point, I had forgoten about Zest. His Full Drive did specifically state that it went 'beyond the limits of the human body.' (or something to that effect anyway)
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Old 2008-07-30, 16:58   Link #3118
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Keroko: It is you who is trying to do a Negima/Nanoha cross with an OC named Keroko, right?

If so, could you explain what you are planing to do as so far as you have already told others here? Too lazy to browse through all of your post

I am saying that because i just got bitten by the Negima/nanoha bug, and i have quite a few idea about it, so i'd like to talk about it to someone else
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Old 2008-07-30, 17:00   Link #3119
Evangelion Xgouki
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From what I understood 'boost'-type spells, they are designed to augment the person's abilities (strength, speed, etc) and probably protect them against some strain but the human body does have its limits. Even with the protection of the spell, there's going to be a limit to which attributes can be augmented until there is harm done to the person.

(it's in my head, but hard to put into words -_-)
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Old 2008-07-30, 17:04   Link #3120
Keroko
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Keroko: It is you who is trying to do a Negima/Nanoha cross with an OC named Keroko, right?

If so, could you explain what you are planing to do as so far as you have already told others here? Too lazy to browse through all of your post

I am saying that because i just got bitten by the Negima/nanoha bug, and i have quite a few idea about it, so i'd like to talk about it to someone else
Basically? I still need to shift to Comar's timeline to see what he's cooked up (he's the one who started doing it), but I plan for Keroko to be a TSAB officer on an undercover mission to study earth's magical culture. She joins the class, meets up with Negi and joins him on the adventures.
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