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Old 2009-02-27, 08:16   Link #5441
Keroko
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Well... thinking about growth acceleration and stuff like this they could be old like Fate.
the unintentional wording here made me chuckle. 19 years is old now?
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Old 2009-02-27, 08:22   Link #5442
Kyral
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In anime? You bet!
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Old 2009-02-27, 08:23   Link #5443
Keroko
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Lindy begs to differ. :3
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Old 2009-02-27, 08:28   Link #5444
Kyral
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It's a world in wich pre-teens can join the military.
If you see it that way, yes, makes Lindy seem old.

That makes her not less hawt though.
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Old 2009-02-27, 08:42   Link #5445
Keroko
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Well, I do suppose you have a point... the Nanoha cast is some of the oldest in magical girl area -which, usually, come in a loli or high-school package- being that they only grew stronger as they aged, rather then fade into nothingness.
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Old 2009-02-27, 08:48   Link #5446
MeisterBabylon
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Originally Posted by Keroko View Post
Why thank you. Compliments from a fellow shopper rank high on my compliment list.
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Oh, you finally found out? Death by moe is such a memorable way to go, isn't it?
...... Such misfortune. -_-\\\

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Originally Posted by Keroko View Post
Anyway, it was this, or materialization. Thinking of my favorite power to give to Keroko was a tough job. Lightning naturally ranks high in the list, and even though I did my research (believe me, I cruised the internet for days to see if there was an alternative I liked better then lightning <_<) but in the end, even though materialization came close it still didn't beat a lightning user.

Though as you can see I cheated and used the whole magnetism thing to still give her a small form of materialization. Once I tried making her a materialized, the nickname 'Armory' stuck, so I figured a way to make her a lightning user and keep the nickname.
Unlike Biribiri who using electricity as a ranged attack, Keroko's more melee in application. Fits.

Keroko should be known for making giant functional wings out of iron or ferrous sand that can be used as shields or blades.
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And she's not a tsundere, she's just incredibly hard to embarrass. Though she does have a 'dere' side on her. If you think of a tsundere as a nut you have to crack to get to the dere part, then Keroko would be a maze you need to figure out to get to the dere.

It's basically the same thing, just without the 'tough face front'
In other words, being Keroko. Which is moe in itself...

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Wild Words.
Is it free? Or do I have to buy it from a source or something?

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It's nice when an anime just throws things in your lap, isn't it?
Yes it does. Allows me to flesh out the side of Belkaneus nicely too. Their Church is one very interesting one that has few friends, which conversely makes them very interested in the Kamijyo faction, among other reasons.

Now to just restrict the amount of influence DoW2 has on the portrayal of the Adeptess, the elite Knights at Belkaneus' disposal.

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Originally Posted by Keroko View Post
We've already been given a crystal clear example of what would happen.
Only problem is that those things stayed together even under heavy AMF...

That said we've no idea who those things fare against Magic Cancel effects. So by peering into the minds of Ken Akamatsu and the writer of To Aru and guessing what they might have done...

...it must be divine will that the only known person with Imagine Breaker in Nanoverse is a girl herself.

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Originally Posted by Keroko View Post
Sad, isn't it?
Very sad indeed...

While this may sound cruel, but we can only mourn them. What is more critical now is to turn that sorrow into strength for what should be done for the remaining 9968!

I will do something!

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No, if you think about it, in To Aru level 6 is a recognized magic rank. It's just never been attained. In Nanohaverse, the Aces are the top of the top, the Nanohaverses Level 5's, and they rank S or SS tops. If they are considered 'the strongest' at SS just like how Level 5's are considered 'the strongest' in To Aru, then logically SSS has to be their Level 6.
Hmm...

I always thot, and I still insist, that because it's recognized without stating a number, SS ranks can number in the tens across the entire multiverse, maybe 40, and so SSS can afford to have only 7 throughout the multiverse. That just leaves X.

And X just gives the feeling that even trying to attack the guy is a sin, is pointless, until someone like Kha comes along.

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Hmm... well we know she isn't linked into the Fate Network, so perhaps she is an excess product?
But she's perfectly functional, so I guess we should go with the anime stereotype that the prototype is the best? I know Full Tuning hasn't been revealed yet, but she might just be in Fate's league. It also makes sense that the 20,000 were made after the tremendous success of the first, possibly without permission of the original scientist. Call me a romanticist, but even now I still believe the Sisters project was actually a spinoff of the well-meaning original one.

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That won't stop us from determining just where in the project she stands, just like that Number 2. >:3

Come to think of it, we know she isn't linked to the Fate Network, and with Precia driving the project she would lay claim to the first Fate, so she's probably a prototype of the mass-produced AA-rank series. That'd mean number #000000 would probably be her number.

More food for thought: How old are the clones during StrikerS?


Continuing from where I stopped, it means the spinoff FATE project could be intercepted anytime when it is put in motion, by a battle between an E-rank knight and the SS mage codenamed "Accelerator". But in order for the results to hold true, the circumstances of 00000's birth have to be replicated, and then growth accelerated to 00000's peak of power, which would be in her early 20s.

In other words, the project not only hasn't occured in StrikerS, all of them will be same age as Fate.

In case you are wondering, Kha's natural magic rank is E, ie he has practically no magic beyond basic Reinforcement. His Rare Skill itself doesn't manifest in any way on magical scans and Kha isn't fond of using it in public, thus contributing to the "misrepresentation".
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Old 2009-02-27, 10:30   Link #5447
Keroko
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...... Such misfortune. -_-\\\
He's cute when he's desperate, isn't he?

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Originally Posted by MeisterBabylon View Post
Unlike Biribiri who using electricity as a ranged attack, Keroko's more melee in application. Fits.
Railgun.

Though Keroko can attack with electricity. It's just that her signature move is to go Gilgamesh on people. Just like how Mikoto is known for her signature Railgun, despite the fact that she more often attacks with pure electricity.

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Originally Posted by MeisterBabylon View Post
Keroko should be known for making giant functional wings out of iron or ferrous sand that can be used as shields or blades.
No, she has a shield, but it's a pure electric barrier.

That, and I loathed that show. I'm glad I forgot its name, but the guy who got the brilliant idea to create a mouse-like hero with wings of steel needs to be hanged.

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Originally Posted by MeisterBabylon View Post
In other words, being Keroko. Which is moe in itself...
Well, Nanohaverse Keroko is quite easy to embarrass. To Aruverse Keroko wouldn't feel embarrassed even if you flipped her skirt in public. She'd hospitalize you, but she wouldn't feel embarrassed.

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Is it free? Or do I have to buy it from a source or something?
It's not free. In fact, it's quite expensive, but then so are a lot of other things for which I should have paid. We should probably take this to PM's if we want to discuss this further, as this is getting into gray area.

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Originally Posted by MeisterBabylon View Post
Yes it does. Allows me to flesh out the side of Belkaneus nicely too. Their Church is one very interesting one that has few friends, which conversely makes them very interested in the Kamijyo faction, among other reasons.

Now to just restrict the amount of influence DoW2 has on the portrayal of the Adeptess, the elite Knights at Belkaneus' disposal.
... You just reminded me that I still haven't bought that game...

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Originally Posted by MeisterBabylon View Post
Only problem is that those things stayed together even under heavy AMF...

That said we've no idea who those things fare against Magic Cancel effects. So by peering into the minds of Ken Akamatsu and the writer of To Aru and guessing what they might have done...

...it must be divine will that the only known person with Imagine Breaker in Nanoverse is a girl herself.
Here is the main difference: AMF is a magic disruption. It has a strength and a weakness, both of which can be used to advantage.

Touma's Imagine Breaker is not a disruptor, it's a canceler. It cancels anything created outside of natural methods, even as far as the power of angels (heck, even the power of god himself if you were to believe Index). The AMF is like a poorly made, cheap knockoff compared to Touma's Imagine Breaker. Comparing the two is laughable to say the least.

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Originally Posted by MeisterBabylon View Post
Very sad indeed...

While this may sound cruel, but we can only mourn them. What is more critical now is to turn that sorrow into strength for what should be done for the remaining 9968!

I will do something!
Like getting half your brain shot and being plugged into their network?

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Originally Posted by MeisterBabylon View Post
Hmm...

I always thot, and I still insist, that because it's recognized without stating a number, SS ranks can number in the tens across the entire multiverse, maybe 40, and so SSS can afford to have only 7 throughout the multiverse. That just leaves X.

And X just gives the feeling that even trying to attack the guy is a sin, is pointless, until someone like Kha comes along.
I still disagree. For one, rank X is not even an official rank, it's a pure fandom rank. To compare a fandom rank we'd need another fandom rank, but Level 6 is a canon rank.

Secondly, yes we have a lot more rank S and higher in the Nanohaverse, but Nanohaverse is also vastly greater then the To Aruverse. And yet, despite being greater, we have seen only one SS-rank mage: Our very own Hayate. She is the single and highest mage we've seen rank-wise. We've never seen an SSS-rank mage, nor even heard of one having ever existed. This means that by all means there is no SSS-rank mage.

Long story short: In Nanohaverse, the highest rank we've seen is SS, and no knowledge of an SSS is ever revealed.

In To Aruverse, the highest level we've seen is 5, and no knowledge of a level 6 is ever revealed.

No need to pull out a fandom rank when a canon rank already fits like a glove.

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Originally Posted by MeisterBabylon View Post
But she's perfectly functional, so I guess we should go with the anime stereotype that the prototype is the best? I know Full Tuning hasn't been revealed yet, but she might just be in Fate's league. It also makes sense that the 20,000 were made after the tremendous success of the first, possibly without permission of the original scientist. Call me a romanticist, but even now I still believe the Sisters project was actually a spinoff of the well-meaning original one.
We could say it was part of the deal. Precia gets Fate, and the researchers get to mass-produce the Alicia blueprint required to make her. Of course, mass-producing her means that the quality of each individual clone is lower, thus explaining why the clones are only AA-rank.

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Originally Posted by MeisterBabylon View Post


Continuing from where I stopped, it means the spinoff FATE project could be intercepted anytime when it is put in motion, by a battle between an E-rank knight and the SS mage codenamed "Accelerator". But in order for the results to hold true, the circumstances of 00000's birth have to be replicated, and then growth accelerated to 00000's peak of power, which would be in her early 20s.

In other words, the project not only hasn't occured in StrikerS, all of them will be same age as Fate.
Misaka-imouto's are Level 3, if we were to adjust this for the Fate-imouto's, then rank E would be far too low. Rank A or AA would be more accurate.

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Originally Posted by MeisterBabylon View Post
In case you are wondering, Kha's natural magic rank is E, ie he has practically no magic beyond basic Reinforcement. His Rare Skill itself doesn't manifest in any way on magical scans and Kha isn't fond of using it in public, thus contributing to the "misrepresentation".
The 'Touma' of Nanohaverse then?
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Old 2009-02-27, 11:18   Link #5448
MeisterBabylon
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He's cute when he's desperate, isn't he?
Anita says through Skype:

-_-

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Originally Posted by Keroko View Post
Railgun.

Though Keroko can attack with electricity. It's just that her signature move is to go Gilgamesh on people. Just like how Mikoto is known for her signature Railgun, despite the fact that she more often attacks with pure electricity.
Everyone remembers the most scariest bit, the rain of iron-filling blades? I think she needs a full construction yard to have enough mats to achieve the proper effect though.

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Originally Posted by Keroko View Post
No, she has a shield, but it's a pure electric barrier.

That, and I loathed that show. I'm glad I forgot its name, but the guy who got the brilliant idea to create a mouse-like hero with wings of steel needs to be hanged.
I was thinking about her other nickname "Bladewing" and converted that into context... So I dunno what you are talking about.

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Originally Posted by Keroko View Post
Well, Nanohaverse Keroko is quite easy to embarrass. To Aruverse Keroko wouldn't feel embarrassed even if you flipped her skirt in public. She'd hospitalize you, but she wouldn't feel embarrassed.
That variation is to be expected, but who in the world wants to do that to a flat chest?!

...oh cra--

*starts blocking blades with Rule Breaker*

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Originally Posted by Keroko View Post
It's not free. In fact, it's quite expensive, but then so are a lot of other things for which I should have paid. We should probably take this to PM's if we want to discuss this further, as this is getting into gray area.
Ah that's what I needed to know for now. Carrying on in PM...

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Originally Posted by Keroko View Post
... You just reminded me that I still haven't bought that game...
I was reminded this afternoon that I haven't bought the game, and I haven't gotten a job to pay for the com I'm using due to the bad economy...

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Originally Posted by Keroko View Post
Here is the main difference: AMF is a magic disruption. It has a strength and a weakness, both of which can be used to advantage.

Touma's Imagine Breaker is not a disruptor, it's a canceler. It cancels anything created outside of natural methods, even as far as the power of angels (heck, even the power of god himself if you were to believe Index). The AMF is like a poorly made, cheap knockoff compared to Touma's Imagine Breaker. Comparing the two is laughable to say the least.
This is going to be really out-of-Nanoverse technical... But in short I think its about how Toaruverse "Magic" and "Esper" really works, and how Imagine Breaker cancels a common element in both. Because of that, Imagine Breaker can work in Nanoverse, but only to the extent of something like an Anti-Magic Shell, since the fundamental principal is different, coming from the Linker Core rather than one's knowledge, faith or beliefs.

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Originally Posted by Keroko View Post
Like getting half your brain shot and being plugged into their network?
...like that, but not only does it need setup, we also need to know what "Accelerator" means in Nanohaverse, or whether he manifests as anything remotely like Accel-kun when the focus is being SS.

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Originally Posted by Keroko View Post
I still disagree. For one, rank X is not even an official rank, it's a pure fandom rank. To compare a fandom rank we'd need another fandom rank, but Level 6 is a canon rank.

Secondly, yes we have a lot more rank S and higher in the Nanohaverse, but Nanohaverse is also vastly greater then the To Aruverse. And yet, despite being greater, we have seen only one SS-rank mage: Our very own Hayate. She is the single highest mage we've seen rank-wise. We've never seen an SSS-rank mage, nor even heard of one having ever existed. This means that by all means there is no SSS-rank.

Long story short: In Nanohaverse, the highest rank we've seen is SS, and no knowledge of an SSS is ever revealed.

In To Aruverse, the highest level we've seen is 5, and no knowledge of a level 6 is ever revealed.

No need to pull out a fandom rank when a canon rank already fits like a glove.
... Hai...

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Originally Posted by Keroko View Post
We could say it was part of the deal. Precia gets Fate, and the researchers get to mass-produce the Alicia blueprint required to make her. Of course, mass-producing her means that the quality of each individual clone is lower, thus explaining why the clones are only AA-rank.
Makes perfect since, now to add enough content so that the Fate Troopers don't end up as mere excuses for fanboy fapping.

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Originally Posted by Keroko View Post
Misaka-imouto's are Level 3, if we were to adjust this for the Fate-imouto's, then rank E would be far too low. Rank A or AA would be more accurate.
That's way too high; B might do, though Kha without the Tome of Dawn can't do much, lest even fly. He can jump quite high due to Reinforcement, but not fly. Not only that, he can't do most of his Traces as most of the 6 steps of Tracing, especially the most difficult 5 and 6, were processed and saved by the book's data collection powers. Like his sister, who without Trieze cannot access any of the 103,000 Inherent Skills in her head but mastered only 1 of them, Kha can only retrace Rule Breaker, having been trained by his mother to do so. Kha applies Rule Breaker by striking the attack, hacking into it and disrupting its contract/link with the user, instantly disassembling it into energy...

...wait that's enough, isn't it?

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The 'Touma' of Nanohaverse then?
Quite coincidentally though, this came up during the 5 Ed version, when I nerfed him to oblivion. I simply smacked his rank down to a below-average mage able to use next to no spells beyond Belka Reinforcement (enhancing Shiroism), transferring his Light powers into the reconstituted Tome (nerfing Kleriker) and focusing on equipment, magical or physical (actualizing Tracing).

All that was before I watched To Aru. When I did see it, I realized how similar Kha, Shirou and Touma are in terms where they stand on principle, and how Rule Breaker could be manipulated into a truly effective Trace. Stabbing a Barrier Jacket with Rule Breaker in this manner is going to be disastrous.

So To Aru told me which was the only Trace Kha mastered that he could use and still keep himself alive.
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Old 2009-02-27, 11:32   Link #5449
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Well, Nanohaverse Keroko is quite easy to embarrass.
I just broke out into insane maniacal laughter.

Oh the things I could do.

/me continues to plot dastardly things with a blind knight and a certain red-head ace.
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Old 2009-02-27, 11:53   Link #5450
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Just as long as it stays in your sandbox.
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Old 2009-02-27, 11:59   Link #5451
Keroko
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Anita says:

-_-
And that's a cute reaction, you two really do make a cute couple.

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Everyone remembers the most scariest bit, the rain of iron-filling blades? I think she needs a full construction yard to have enough mats to achieve the proper effect though.
you'd be surprised how much junk is commonly lying round in a street. Not to mention she can use anything remotely subject to magnetism, not just metal

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Originally Posted by MeisterBabylon View Post
I was thinking about her other nickname "Bladewing" and converted that into context... So I dunno what you are talking about.
'Deathwing' her nickname is Deathwing. Not Bladewing.

As for what I was talking about... a certain bat who can block anything with his wings of steel.

Ugh... you actually made me look for it. >_<

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That variation is to be expected, but who in the world wants to do that to a flat chest?!

...oh cra--

*starts blocking blades with Rule Breaker*
Mostly because a flat chest has no influence on the pantsu-view from a skirt flip.

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Originally Posted by MeisterBabylon View Post
This is going to be really out-of-Nanoverse technical... But in short I think its about how Toaruverse "Magic" and "Esper" really works, and how Imagine Breaker cancels a common element in both. Because of that, Imagine Breaker can work in Nanoverse, but only to the extent of something like an Anti-Magic Shell, since the fundamental principal is different, coming from the Linker Core rather than one's knowledge, faith or beliefs.
I don't see why it shouldn't work like it does on Nanohaverse magic. Imagine Breaker has been shown to cancel even divine powers, to simply say 'it's because To Aruverse magic is different' would be stretching.

After all, not all To Aruverse magic comes from belief directly. Yes, it's being taught in churches among other places, but that doesn't necessarily restrict it to one's 'faith.' In fact, magic has been shown to be quite biological, as those who are espers can't use magic without destroying their bodies, and vice versa.

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Originally Posted by MeisterBabylon View Post
...like that, but not only does it need setup, we also need to know what "Accelerator" means in Nanohaverse, or whether he manifests as anything remotely like Accel-kun when the focus is being SS.
Up until now we've only seen S-rank power in the anime, taking that as a base and adding a scoop above, we should be able to create something impressively powerful. Though I suggest we don't copy/paste To Aru Accelerator but design a new guy with his own special powers.

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... Hai...
That's better.

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Originally Posted by MeisterBabylon View Post
That's way too high; B might do,
Too high? B-rank is what most of the grunts are. There would be no value in mass-producing Fate if the result would end up as mere B-rank mages. A-rank is the very minimal, AA-rank more logical

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So To Aru told me which was the only Trace Kha mastered that he could use and still keep himself alive.
And not fully invincible either, as long as you fight with half a brain (no offense to Mikoto, as she's bound to the strain of plot, but when attacking the last thing you want to do is aim for the parts that can resist it).

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I just broke out into insane maniacal laughter.

Oh the things I could do.

/me continues to plot dastardly things with a blind knight and a certain red-head ace.
Nanohaverse Keroko is quite impulsive, which means she does things that most people would avoid because it's embarrassing in a heartbeat. It's just that she doesn't realize she's doing it until she's done it.

That's when her face joins her hair in color.
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Old 2009-02-27, 12:59   Link #5452
MeisterBabylon
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And that's a cute reaction, you two really do make a cute couple.
Ah... Thx...

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you'd be surprised how much junk is commonly lying round in a street. Not to mention she can use anything remotely subject to magnetism, not just metal
Now that broadens it to anything, including water in the air.

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Originally Posted by Keroko View Post
'Deathwing' her nickname is Deathwing. Not Bladewing.

As for what I was talking about... a certain bat who can block anything with his wings of steel.

Ugh... you actually made me look for it. >_<
Oh my mistake.

And very sorry. Argh that is rather bad... >_<

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Mostly because a flat chest has no influence on the pantsu-view from a skirt flip.
I'd really pity the idiot who even tries to get close to Keroko. >_>

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I don't see why it shouldn't work like it does on Nanohaverse magic. Imagine Breaker has been shown to cancel even divine powers, to simply say 'it's because To Aruverse magic is different' would be stretching.

After all, not all To Aruverse magic comes from belief directly. Yes, it's being taught in churches among other places, but that doesn't necessarily restrict it to one's 'faith.' In fact, magic has been shown to be quite biological, as those who are espers can't use magic without destroying their bodies, and vice versa.
How do you know its not just something added into the Curriculum to make sure no one converts to magic? Like how Index was "controlled" to be loyal? It could be harmless in pieces, but the fact that as one got more and more advanced in imbibing the more damage one takes. Granted at the moment it can be biological in nature or something more surrepticious, but given the nature of things so far, I kinda believe my theory has some ground, just needs more episodes.

Btw the only example of a esper I've seen (never read the manga Index or novel either) using magic was one who was a former mage from a Church, haven't seen a non-Church user who is a mage. Komoe was practically taught on the spot, but then she seemed to be using her mind a lot rather than something related to faith.

The name is the biggest clue. Imagine Breaker. Breaks the illusion of one's imagination. Context: Esper comes from the mind. And nothing from To Aru magic seems to state that it doesn't comes from the mind but somewhere higher. Plus you can consider that it is possible that the concept of "God" might be a very advanced form of mental projection, as there's this lobe in ur brain responsible for the feeling of holiness and the need for faith. This collective projection of Mankind as a whole gives power to God and his Angels, which is then vulnerable to Imagine Breaker as well.

At least that's how I explain why its vulnerable. The fact that it is vulnerable suggests a mortal imaginational link.

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Originally Posted by Keroko View Post
Up until now we've only seen S-rank power in the anime, taking that as a base and adding a scoop above, we should be able to create something impressively powerful. Though I suggest we don't copy/paste To Aru Accelerator but design a new guy with his own special powers.
That's what I was saying.

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Originally Posted by Keroko View Post
That's better.
<_<

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Originally Posted by Keroko View Post
Too high? B-rank is what most of the grunts are. There would be no value in mass-producing Fate if the result would end up as mere B-rank mages. A-rank is the very minimal, AA-rank more logical.
OH we're on different pages! I was refering to Kha as a mage. He is E Rank without his book and his strap-on Drive, and in order to stop the experiment, Kha has to face Accel-kun without his gear. Therre's still enough in him to cope, since he did start out very successfully with just sword and dagger, jumps, spins and dodges, and very basic "Jedi-like" abilities.

Accel-kun on the other hand, who has had so much power all his life and defeated people with no more than a stare at times, when stripped of his massive spellpower, will be "brought down to Earth" in a sense.

As for the Fate Troopers, they will be AA rank or something like that. No contention there.

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Originally Posted by Keroko View Post
And not fully invincible either, as long as you fight with half a brain (no offense to Mikoto, as she's bound to the strain of plot, but when attacking the last thing you want to do is aim for the parts that can resist it).
Noticing the Rule Breaker is half the battle won; after that is a battle of wits and who makes a tactical error first.

Just as you can try aiming elsewhere, Kha has the option to trace more Breakers, dodge or do something else. As meeting power with power is not the way of a Modern Belka Knight, this is where the improvization gets interesting. But it's not foolproof, and if he were to take on too much at once, his opponent is even smarter or make a mistake, hell if he strains himself and suffers Feedback from magical overload, or the various myriad of ways things can go wrong, it will have him literally pulped.
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Old 2009-02-27, 13:04   Link #5453
Kyral
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Secondly, yes we have a lot more rank S and higher in the Nanohaverse, but Nanohaverse is also vastly greater then the To Aruverse. And yet, despite being greater, we have seen only one SS-rank mage: Our very own Hayate. She is the single and highest mage we've seen rank-wise. We've never seen an SSS-rank mage, nor even heard of one having ever existed. This means that by all means there is no SSS-rank mage.

Long story short: In Nanohaverse, the highest rank we've seen is SS, and no knowledge of an SSS is ever revealed.

In To Aruverse, the highest level we've seen is 5, and no knowledge of a level 6 is ever revealed.

No need to pull out a fandom rank when a canon rank already fits like a glove
Elric: *while lookig up from desk work* "SSS? Yeah, I nearly reached that one once.
I don't really get all the excitement about that."

*pauses for a moment*

Elric: "I lied... Even if it was close... It was still great...
There was no fear, worries and moral. Only happiness, rage and fun while walking through this sea of fire and blood."

*shudders*

Elric: "Never again..."
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Old 2009-02-27, 14:24   Link #5454
Keroko
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Oh dear, looks like I made Elric take a trip down the Emo lane. <_<

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Now that broadens it to anything, including water in the air.
.... okay, maybe not that remotely. <_< Let's just say if it's something that you can stick a fridge magnet on, she can use it.

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I'd really pity the idiot who even tries to get close to Keroko. >_>
Nothing wrong with getting close. Heck, even the regular good-to-honest accidents that set of the tsun in tsunderes won't set her off (heck, she barely even acknowledged Touma when he walked in on her changing in a clothes shop once). Do something like that intentionally though, and you'd best hope you were born with super speed.

She more often creates situations others find embarrassing then being embarrassed herself.

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How do you know its not just something added into the Curriculum to make sure no one converts to magic? Like how Index was "controlled" to be loyal? It could be harmless in pieces, but the fact that as one got more and more advanced in imbibing the more damage one takes. Granted at the moment it can be biological in nature or something more surrepticious, but given the nature of things so far, I kinda believe my theory has some ground, just needs more episodes.
I'll admit there is nothing directly disproving your theory.

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The name is the biggest clue. Imagine Breaker. Breaks the illusion of one's imagination.
You should know better by now then to take Engrish names at face value. <_<

Regardless of that, why does that mean Imagine Breaker is less effective on Nanohaverse magic? By all means we can apply the same rules of magic coming from the mind, the mana is supplied by the body but since it is the mind that forms the spell, Touma's Imagine Breaker would still be fully effective.

Though to be frank, Ars Magma already throws a big wrench into that theory. Being that it was a technique specifically stated to bring thoughts into reality, this pretty much says that all other techniques... well... aren't.

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Context: Esper comes from the mind. And nothing from To Aru magic seems to state that it doesn't comes from the mind but somewhere higher.
From the brain, to be exact. Espers are very scientifically oriented, everything they do or can do is explainable by science. No religion comes into view.

An Espers powers are also biologically present. Such as Mikoto's body always involuntarily generates electricity, for example. What she thinks has no influence on this matter.

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Plus you can consider that it is possible that the concept of "God" might be a very advanced form of mental projection, as there's this lobe in ur brain responsible for the feeling of holiness and the need for faith. This collective projection of Mankind as a whole gives power to God and his Angels, which is then vulnerable to Imagine Breaker as well.

At least that's how I explain why its vulnerable. The fact that it is vulnerable suggests a mortal imaginational link.
.... I think I'll stick to 'Imagine Breaker cancels everything.' Much easier.

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OH we're on different pages! I was refering to Kha as a mage.
Whoops.

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Noticing the Rule Breaker is half the battle won; after that is a battle of wits and who makes a tactical error first.
My initial tactic I came up five seconds after watching Touma: Surround him with lightning from all sides. There's no way he can block lightning coming at him from 360 degrees all around him.

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Just as you can try aiming elsewhere, Kha has the option to trace more Breakers, dodge or do something else. As meeting power with power is not the way of a Modern Belka Knight, this is where the improvization gets interesting.
Sounds like Keroko -either one- would be his natural enemy, as they both have the ability to attack from any direction simultaneously
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Old 2009-02-27, 14:30   Link #5455
Kyral
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Oh dear, looks like I made Elric take a trip down the Emo lane. <_<
Elric: "Ah, don't worry! I don't need any counseling anymore." ^^;
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Old 2009-02-27, 15:29   Link #5456
MeisterBabylon
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.... okay, maybe not that remotely. <_< Let's just say if it's something that you can stick a fridge magnet on, she can use it.
Hehe. It was my favorite example though, how magnets can affect anything if its strong enough since the atom has electrons in them.

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Nothing wrong with getting close. Heck, even the regular good-to-honest accidents that set of the tsun in tsunderes won't set her off (heck, she barely even acknowledged Touma when he walked in on her changing in a clothes shop once). Do something like that intentionally though, and you'd best hope you were born with super speed.

She more often creates situations others find embarrassing then being embarrassed herself.
...now I see a parttime Sousuke Sagara.

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.... I think I'll stick to 'Imagine Breaker cancels everything.' Much easier.
Regrettably. At least that makes some leeway for Kha and Kaka, she's the one with Imagine Breaker programmed into her head, while he copied from the original, so that ability would be the next best thing instead, as it is the limitation of Tracing.

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My initial tactic I came up five seconds after watching Touma: Surround him with lightning from all sides. There's no way he can block lightning coming at him from 360 degrees all around him.
Same, just that, electricity is not as destructive if its 360 surround and uniformly charged. Misaka would just be soaking him in a big ball of electrons and its gonna take a lot more just to achieve the effect of "turning a bridge into a Faraday Cage" for example.

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Sounds like Keroko -either one- would be his natural enemy, as they both have the ability to attack from any direction simultaneously
Which means he won't be engaging either one out in the open. For A Certain Magical Deathwing at full power berserking, it is really really hard I can see, and it probably requires not just a Trace but the more advanced Alteration that comes from mastering a Trace. For A Certain Scientific Ion Cannon, a Reinforced Faraday Cage with a slightly Altered Rule Breaker might be needed as well.

That said, if anyone really went all out on Touma, he could be easily defeated. Same for Kha. Hence all that gadgetrical support he has, for the time when all the wits in the world is not going to stop him from getting few-shotted.
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Old 2009-02-27, 16:03   Link #5457
Keroko
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Hehe. It was my favorite example though, how magnets can affect anything if its strong enough since the atom has electrons in them.
Yes, well, a good point, but I probably won't go that far with her powers.

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...now I see a parttime Sousuke Sagara.
Not really. Sousuke never realizes that what he's doing is extremely embarrassing. Keroko is very much aware that what she's doing is embarrassing, she just doesn't really care. Touma walking in on her changing? Well, it's not like he's pushing her down and tearing her clothes of. Ignore him, he'll go away after stammering excuses. Someone flipping her skirt? Oh lovely, get a good view? Yes, they're black. Good. Remember it. It'll be the last thing you'll have seen for a long time. She won't actively go out of her way to embarrass people, but she can make other people feel embarrassed with her attitude. Simple things like casually hugging someone, which to her is a simple and innocent gesture, can be throughly embarrassing for another.

She doesn't mind being seen in underwear. She doesn't mind close contact with people. She doesn't mind people knowing she has a few un-ladylike hobbies (like gaming).

However, if you make it a point of doing things like peeking on her while changing, or abuse her non-caring attitude towards physical contact to 'cope a feel' so to say, then she won't hesitate to retaliate with a vengeance. She's taking revenge more out of annoyance then embarrassment.

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Regrettably.
Try and keep that train of thought when he innocently pats Fate's shoulder. >:3

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Originally Posted by MeisterBabylon View Post
At least that makes some leeway for Kha and Kaka, she's the one with Imagine Breaker programmed into her head, while he copied from the original, so that ability would be the next best thing instead, as it is the limitation of Tracing.
Kaka? ... Nevermind, what you're saying is that Kha's Rule Breaker is a weaker version of Imagine Breaker, right?

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Originally Posted by MeisterBabylon View Post
Same, just that, electricity is not as destructive if its 360 surround and uniformly charged. Misaka would just be soaking him in a big ball of electrons and its gonna take a lot more just to achieve the effect of "turning a bridge into a Faraday Cage" for example.
I actually meant 'bolts flying from all sides'

... What's a Faraday Cage?

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Which means he won't be engaging either one out in the open. For A Certain Magical Deathwing at full power berserking, it is really really hard I can see, and it probably requires not just a Trace but the more advanced Alteration that comes from mastering a Trace. For A Certain Scientific Ion Cannon, a Reinforced Faraday Cage with a slightly Altered Rule Breaker might be needed as well.
Actually, since berskerking Keroko is mostly just using magically enhanced strength and random spells, but little to no tactical thinking, I'd say she'd be easier to defeat then a calm Keroko using her Blast Lancer to full advantage.

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Originally Posted by MeisterBabylon View Post
That said, if anyone really went all out on Touma, he could be easily defeated. Same for Kha. Hence all that gadgetrical support he has, for the time when all the wits in the world is not going to stop him from getting few-shotted.
s'all part of plotwriting. By all accounts Fate should have been downed fairly quickly in A's first battle, but plot demanded she hung in there. Same for Touma. Accelerator could have won that fight in the first blow, if he had kicked that rock just a centimeter or 30 more to the right, Touma's head would have gone *splat* It may make battles less... realistic in terms of tactical fighting, but it sure as hell also makes them more entertaining.
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Old 2009-02-27, 20:05   Link #5458
Kagerou
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oh, you finally found out? Death by moe is such a memorable way to go, isn't it?
...Stop being so damn cute D:
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Old 2009-02-27, 20:08   Link #5459
LimitedEternal
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...Stop being so damn cute D:
Au contraire, it's fun watching people grapple with it. :3

Claimed for...a lazy late night.
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Old 2009-02-27, 20:09   Link #5460
Evangelion Xgouki
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...Stop being so damn cute D:
>_>

<_<

*makes another order of roses, rose petals, and wireless, hovering sparkly lights*
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