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Old 2009-04-18, 15:10   Link #6581
JamesEdwards
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Keroko View Post
Yeah, that might be it. Well, like I said, it wasn't a bad read, it just didn't feel very Nanoha-ish.
...Man, not saying this to knock ya, Kero-bro, but you're really used to having the Nano-verse cast around doing their usual familial WAFFy song-and-dance Hot Tease Moe number, aren't ya? Looking over here, yeah, this has a rather Grim Dark! military action feel to it, with no MoeBlobs or feel good flowery scenes in sight. Just a lone mage "black operator" out to make some money in a mad universe caught in the cusp of a galactic civil war, while ruminating on his own transient and minuscule existence. Such "trivial" suffering, no?



Man, y'all need to get in touch with your inner GAR sometime. Then again, Nano-verse is pretty much about the usual familial WAFFy song-and-dance Hot Tease Moe number. Any action at all is just icing on the cake.
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Old 2009-04-18, 15:27   Link #6582
Keroko
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Yeah, I'm used to Nanoha being the -as you put it- "familial WAFFy song-and-dance Hot Tease Moe." Like I said I enjoyed reading it better bold this so you don't think I didn't like it, as you seem to do... but it didn't feel like a Nanoha setting.

If I were to put into words why I liked it... you could say that I liked it as a Star Wars fic.
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Old 2009-04-18, 15:55   Link #6583
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@Keroko: for your naming needs...

well, not quite, but when I ran up my last piece of crack, I posited Yun/Jun as Number 21 - full name VentiUno

Venti of course is nabbed by Citrus (of which flavour is yet to be revealed...knowing Lowe, Lime or Lemon seems likely...)

so, go for the second syllable. Can't go fully for it, since that clashes with a Canon cast 'first' Number, so we use the syllable, rather than the exact.

hence, Yun/Jun/June/Juno (writers choice)...

Although the prospect of another addition to Yuuno/Uno/? confusion is admittedly somewaht alarming, but doubtless theres potential for some fun there too.
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Old 2009-04-18, 16:08   Link #6584
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JamesEdwards View Post
Man, y'all need to get in touch with your inner GAR sometime. Then again, Nano-verse is pretty much about the usual familial WAFFy song-and-dance Hot Tease Moe number. Any action at all is just icing on the cake.
This is largely why I have high hopes for Force. Less moe-blobbery, more fighting, dammit! More city demolition with giant beam-o-wars! More epic ten-on-one-and-ten-is-screwed battlefields! More dances of steel!

...

In other news, I'm trying to construct a legitimate build for a tank mage. Anyone have ideas to throw out there?
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Old 2009-04-18, 16:09   Link #6585
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Keroko View Post
"You're not taking the bait for subtle character development? All right, then I'll bring in the big guns."
"I'm afraid being deliberately subtle is beyond me just yet"

Quote:
Originally Posted by Keroko
Pretty much. It becomes rather ironic when you realize that technically Yuzu is the older sister. However, due to Yuzu's childish nature, 21 assumes the role of the elder sister. After all, calling someone who acts like a child her older sister is a blow to her pride she'd rather not take. It's also the reason why she never calls herself 21 (just have to think of a good name for her) because people have a tendency to note that that would make Yuzu the elder sister.
Wow... Tsukamato syndrome where the younger sister is more dependable than the elder And Yuzu's too naive to even remotely think of correcting people calling 21 her older sister - afterall, even Yuzu would call her the older sister . Thus unless people ask, they'll never even know... which might make the people who do know, and make use of that information such a pain...

*cough* Rossa *cough*

And why does the name Lavinia come to mind as 21's name for some reason...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Keroko
*bullets riddle the place where Lowe was standing mere moments ago*

The possibility of that is rather high, yes.

*deploys bubble shield before the rain shifts direction*
Better prep then... all this talk about 21's affections for Yuzu might cross with the fact that Yuzu herself likes Mai very much, as the one who saved her afterall. Might create a situation where 21 wonders why Yuzu likes Mai so much despite being the "newcomer" in this relationship...





Quote:
Originally Posted by Keroko
Requesting more info on the Null Absolution skill then.
Null Absolution is the IS that's truly inherent to Yuzu (Absolute Judgement is a later add-on through genetic tampering and phsyical modification). It's basically a field that dissolves any unformed magic particles it comes into contact with, which makes it more efficient at defending against magic attack than traditional AMF - Null Absolution requires only a third of the power to dissolve a AA+ rank spell compared to traditional AMF for example, and at its current power it can easily stop AA+ rank attacks and below with ease . It's anti-magic nature also means it's damaging to magical constructs - while Linker Cores and magical program beings won't be destroyed by mere contact, prolonged exposure would be quite dangerous.

As for the Cons... The field itself only has a max range of 10 cm though, and cannot be used in conjunction with her other IS: it's either one or the other. And standard AMF countermeasures still apply: stay out of its range, use physical weapons, or smash a big enough magic attack at it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Keroko
I'm working on some anti-mage stuff myself, though since 21 is going to be a ranged character hers will be primarily offensive in nature. I'm working on series of Anti-Magilink bullets, since 21 is going to be using a lot of mass-weaponry when fighting Eden. Her IS is called Infinite Armory for a reason.
Infinite Armory? Oh please do tell. And Anti-Magilink bullets... i.e. bullets that can dissolve magic in their tracks?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Keroko
*scribble scribble* Hmm, that production of her had started roughly seven years before StrikerS, right?
Quite yes. Note that while she has been "awake" for 10 years, it doesn't mean she was awake all the time. Due to her complexity of her dual IS's she stayed a lot of times in stasis for fine tuning and adjustment.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Keroko
I think the only reason they changed that was because of the whole 'uniforms based on the squad captains' gig.
You'd think by now Teana and the others would've designed their own Barrier Jackets after all these years

And I did a very lazy shop of Teana in black (what, it's 5am already?)...





@stormturmoil: Her complete name is Yuzu Citrus Venti... and Yuzu is already a fruit by itself
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Old 2009-04-18, 16:10   Link #6586
Keroko
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stormturmoil View Post
@Keroko: for your naming needs...

well, not quite, but when I ran up my last piece of crack, I posited Yun/Jun as Number 21 - full name VentiUno

Venti of course is nabbed by Citrus (of which flavour is yet to be revealed...knowing Lowe, Lime or Lemon seems likely...)

so, go for the second syllable. Can't go fully for it, since that clashes with a Canon cast 'first' Number, so we use the syllable, rather than the exact.

hence, Yun/Jun/June/Juno (writers choice)...

Although the prospect of another addition to Yuuno/Uno/? confusion is admittedly somewaht alarming, but doubtless theres potential for some fun there too.
Well, I'm actually thinking about a name that doesn't involve her number. Ventiuno is a not the greatest of names, which the scientist that nabbed her and Yuzu thought as well, so he gave her a name that was at least not as bad. 21 likes the name as well, so she decided to keep it.

Edit: double ninja! That's what happens when you don't push the preview button. <_<
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Old 2009-04-18, 16:11   Link #6587
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Post I smell a Discussion

Quote:
Originally Posted by Keroko View Post
Yeah, I'm used to Nanoha being the -as you put it- "familial WAFFy song-and-dance Hot Tease Moe." Like I said I enjoyed reading it better bold this so you don't think I didn't like it, as you seem to do... but it didn't feel like a Nanoha setting.

If I were to put into words why I liked it... you could say that I liked it as a Star Wars fic.
Dude, relax. You're way too used to having defend yourself for something or another. The cause for me raising eyebrows, honestly, is the perception that you need to have the Nano cast involved to make it a Nanoha fic, which is probably true. That said, I'm siding with the Mahou Senki troop hopefuls in the sense that the series needs to move on from being just about Nanoha. It should grow to become the Mahou Senki-verse versus just plain ol' Nano-verse, if it's going to have any hope of becoming something long term, instead of just a passing fad. Nanoha was a cool introduction to the grander scheme of things, and they shouldn't let that potential go to waste by continually focusing in a narrow-minded perspective solely on her.

Heck, just look at Pretty Cure. That show is a franchise! There's been what five successors to the line already? It's not just about Cure Black and Cure White. It's the Pretty Cure-verse!

...okay, maybe that wasn't such a good comparison. Would you prefer Macross, instead? We all know Gundam is a bloody train wreck nowadays, being 30 years old and in perpetual mid-life crisis with every new IP they try to make. Reason being they want to innovate and at the same time they don't want to alienate old fans either, which I suspect is going to be the same hurdle 7 Arcs is gonna have to deal with, if they plan to continue to support Mahou Senki past Nanoha. The upcoming Vivio manga and the prior SSX sound stage was nice, but let's see if they can take an even bolder step forward.

I don't mind if it's another brand new female protagonist. I'm used to that by now. Sex (appeal), MOE, and Violence sells. Nanoha started as a moe blob show with violence and eventually graduated into a Moe Blob and Sexy Hotness (appeal) with violence show. I don't particularly begrudge 7 Arcs for sticking to a profitable marketing strategy that works, case in point the Mai series, Sora Kake Shoujo, etc., though I wouldn't mind if 7 Arcs decided to stop shafting male characters, or Kami forbid make a male protagonist either in the Mahou Senki-verse.

Seriously, you can still do Moe Blob and Sexy Hotness (appeal) with violence while you have a male protagonist, e.g. the much lauded and controversial Tengen Toppa Gurren Lagann.

Then again, Japan tends to be pretty retarded when it comes to character balance. They usually can't seem to find that happy medium between the protagonist and the supporting cast. Is it a cultural bias? Example, lots of folks may view Yoko-san from TTGL as a worthless female character, but at the same time she's come out and done some pretty darn amazing things.

Agh, this is way too subjective. I'm gonna stop, now.
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Old 2009-04-18, 17:07   Link #6588
LoweGear
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@JamesEdwards:

You're really making a big fuss out of something that shouldn't even be an issue in the first place. I'm also of the opinion that your fic doesn't really read like something out of Nanohaverse at all. But just because we made that observation doesn't mean we can't like it. Why do you think we've even have people like you and Goose and Tk here in OCT if all we accept is the conventions of the Nanoverse theme?

This is not about the future of the franchise, an analysis of tropes, our expectations of the franchise or anything like that: It's just a simple observation of your fic's theme relative to the Nanohaverse so far. No more, no less.
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Old 2009-04-18, 17:14   Link #6589
Keroko
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LimitedEternal View Post
In other news, I'm trying to construct a legitimate build for a tank mage. Anyone have ideas to throw out there?
Define tank. MMO-style high armor, low firepower? Or tank as in 'tracks 'n guns' tank?

Difference between the two is rather large.

Quote:
Originally Posted by LoweGear View Post
"I'm afraid being deliberately subtle is beyond me just yet"
"... I suppose deliberate comebacks are as well then?"

Quote:
Originally Posted by LoweGear View Post
Wow... Tsukamato syndrome where the younger sister is more dependable than the elder And Yuzu's too naive to even remotely think of correcting people calling 21 her older sister - afterall, even Yuzu would call her the older sister . Thus unless people ask, they'll never even know... which might make the people who do know, and make use of that information such a pain...

*cough* Rossa *cough*
... I think I just found one part of their personality 21 and Eden have in common.

Quote:
Originally Posted by LoweGear View Post
And why does the name Lavinia come to mind as 21's name for some reason...
Lavinia.. Lavinia... I'll keep that one in the back of my head.

Quote:
Originally Posted by LoweGear View Post
Better prep then... all this talk about 21's affections for Yuzu might cross with the fact that Yuzu herself likes Mai very much, as the one who saved her afterall. Might create a situation where 21 wonders why Yuzu likes Mai so much despite being the "newcomer" in this relationship...

Hmm *ponders* Yes, that's likely. Even though 21 sees her relationship with Yuzu as one of sisters rather then lovers, seeing Yuzu's attention shift to Mai would feel like losing... though I don't think it will boil down to a 'don't get close to my imouto' type relationship, I do think this will form the base of a rivalry for 21 to try and outperform Mai.

Quote:
Originally Posted by LoweGear View Post
Null Absolution is the IS that's truly inherent to Yuzu (Absolute Judgement is a later add-on through genetic tampering and phsyical modification). It's basically a field that dissolves any unformed magic particles it comes into contact with, which makes it more efficient at defending against magic attack than traditional AMF - Null Absolution requires only a third of the power to dissolve a AA+ rank spell compared to traditional AMF for example, and at its current power it can easily stop AA+ rank attacks and below with ease . It's anti-magic nature also means it's damaging to magical constructs - while Linker Cores and magical program beings won't be destroyed by mere contact, prolonged exposure would be quite dangerous.

As for the Cons... The field itself only has a max range of 10 cm though, and cannot be used in conjunction with her other IS: it's either one or the other. And standard AMF countermeasures still apply: stay out of its range, use physical weapons, or smash a big enough magic attack at it.
Another con -such as it is- would be that she can't touch a Linker Core directly I assume? Though a problem I see is that cyborgs are already very tough without this kind of defense. Is there a payoff in that regard? Such as her physical structure not being as tough as the other cyborgs?

Quote:
Originally Posted by LoweGear View Post
Infinite Armory? Oh please do tell. And Anti-Magilink bullets... i.e. bullets that can dissolve magic in their tracks?
Infinite Armory allows 21 to create a massive variety of weaponry and ammunition. These types of weaponry are limited to those programmed into the skill, and programming a new weapon takes a similar amount of time and effort as it would to create and tune a upgrade for a Device (which means that, going by StrikerS upgrading of Mach Calibur, it should take between 1 to 3 weeks of heavy maintenance) it cannot create magic, so she can't create filled cartridges with it, only empty shells for herself or others to fill.

Anti-Magilink bullets come in different shapes and sizes. There is the disruption round, which is created to explode on impact and create a burst-AMF that dispels magic it comes into contact with. This makes it useful to penetrate barriers or cancel channeled spells. It can also be used to intercept incoming spells. The downside of this round is that it does low physical damage, being that it explodes on impact.

Another type is the jamming round, these types are created to actually survive impact, and then create an AMF pocket around their point of impact. The size of the bullets does not allow this AMF to be very powerful, but its radius extends to 3 meters around the zone of impact. However, the Fields do strengthen one another when in close vicinity. Since these rounds can't do much in the air, this is mostly an anti-ground ability designed to deny or hamper enemy spellcasting, as several of these rounds scattered around a battlezone would severely hamper the mage from fighting.

The third type I have in mind is the penetration round. This round would emit a constant high-density field with a radius of mere millimeters, allowing the bullets to penetrate Barriers and Fields. Their ability to do so varies, of course, with the strength of the defense in question. A B-rank mook may face a one-shot with this projectile, but to take down the barrier of AA-rank Subaru, a barrage is required. Thus this skill is more effective on lower ranked enemies, or weakened powerful ones.

Then there is also the line of anti-cyborg rounds. So far I've only done the Ion round, which fires a blast of highly ionized particles. These particles seriously interfere with the operation of electronics and computer systems, shorting circuits and often disabling them outright. Depending on how much an enemy cyborg defends against this, and where it hits, a shot like this has the potential to take them out in one blow, very similar to Subaru's Vibration Shatter, only this one disables rather then destroys. The bonus is that this round can also be used against devices, disabling them and allowing for easier capture. The downside is that this round causes next to no damage on living beings, reducing its use against mages lacking a device to zero.

Quote:
Originally Posted by LoweGear View Post
Quite yes. Note that while she has been "awake" for 10 years, it doesn't mean she was awake all the time. Due to her complexity of her dual IS's she stayed a lot of times in stasis for fine tuning and adjustment.
I see, similar to Cinque then.

Quote:
Originally Posted by LoweGear View Post
You'd think by now Teana and the others would've designed their own Barrier Jackets after all these years
Nostalgia, maybe?

Quote:
Originally Posted by LoweGear View Post
And I did a very lazy shop of Teana in black (what, it's 5am already?)...



Hmm hmm.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JamesEdwards View Post
Dude, relax. You're way too used to having defend yourself for something or another.
I know. Sorry. Your 'not saying this to knock ya' line made me think you were trying to prove a point.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JamesEdwards View Post
The cause for me raising eyebrows, honestly, is the perception that you need to have the Nano cast involved to make it a Nanoha fic, which is probably true.
Did I leave that impression? Sorry, that was not my intent. While it is a good idea to keep CC's involved in a story, that is not what made me feel this was not a Nanoha story I was reading. It was more the wording that could easily be used in a Star Wars story, the lack of Nanoha-style battles, no mention of any known story factors (TSAB, Belka, what have you) things like that. The title didn't help either, like I said, I just finished a session of Republic Commando myself, so the whole Geonosis mission was fresh in my mind.
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Old 2009-04-18, 17:36   Link #6590
LimitedEternal
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Keroko View Post
Define tank. MMO-style high armor, low firepower? Or tank as in 'tracks 'n guns' tank?

Difference between the two is rather large.
If I wanted a 'tracks 'n guns' tank I'd take a brain-in-a-jar and wire it up.

No, my interest is in a defensive mage setup. High protection, the ability to guard allies or make life difficult for enemies who attack them, that kind of thing. I've been working on it a while; organizing what I have is slow due to my non-organizational nature. I was just wondering if any of you had any thoughts on how one would go about setting up a defender mage.
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Old 2009-04-18, 17:43   Link #6591
Keroko
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From a stats point of view you'd be looking at the 'everything in defense' approach. Barrier Jackets designed for defense, tons of defensive spells, that sort of thing. Strength is not needed, as the idea of a tank is to keep an enemy away from the squishies, not kill them. Not to say that it's a bad thing if they do, but it's not what they were designed for. Speed can also be sacrificed, though a certain degree of mobility is still required, as you'd prefer to be able to keep up with your enemy.

In terms of Devices... a shield should be the obvious choice. Perhaps a Device that takes the shape of a piece of armor, or even a full one.
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Old 2009-04-18, 18:04   Link #6592
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So I decided to do a revamp of my OC's layouts and also update them with more info. Also introducing a third OC.
Linking back to the two other updated ones because I don't see the need to post a whole new one.
----------
Sigrid
Elisabeth

Aaaand here is the new OC.

Spoiler for Angelika:
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Old 2009-04-18, 18:05   Link #6593
JamesEdwards
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LimitedEternal View Post
In other news, I'm trying to construct a legitimate build for a tank mage. Anyone have ideas to throw out there?
When you mean, a "Tank" mage, I'm going to assume RPG nomenclature, a'ight? I don't really think you need help making a mecha musume-style magus, after all.

Anyways, as far as Tanks go, normal Nano-verse examples are the likes of Zafira, Arf, and Yuuno. Though as far as the Guardian Beast and Familiar go, they're both honestly closer to Yojimbo who will go out and engage the enemy giving the caster breathing space. So that leaves Yuuno as the true Tank, per say, since last I checked he has no true offense spells to speak of.

A build for a Tank mage, though, depends ultimately on what you want to do / the theme for this Tank, e.g. "The Ultimate Defense", "The Tank", "The Mirror", etc. Things to think about are like Speed, Power, Defense, etc. Is this going to be a mobile Cloth-type. Slow, purposeful Armor-type. Or a Technical-type that tries to find a happy middle ground.

Do you want someone who just wades into harm's way like it's walking in the rain? Do you want someone who'll take a hit and then return the favor tenfold? Do you want someone who pretty much is a walking Area Denial field? An Interceptor? Or is this someone who gets attacked and they can turn that attack back on the attacker directly or indirectly?

We can take the next appropriate steps as soon as you can figure out what you like or would like to see.

@Lowe:

Whoa, my bad. It was not my intention to come off sounding like a whiny brat. I fully understand this is not a Nanoha-like setting. My riposte was only meant to illustrate where I was coming from. Nothing more, nothing less.

@Keroko:

It's cool, man. No harm done. A lot of those familiar story elements just don't exist yet, since these events in the Gravity Front are happening prior to the formation of the TSAB. TSAB won't be officially formed until after the war is declared officially over. and well, things like Belka won't become an issue until a full 15 years post-Clone Wars.

That said, thanks to yourself and others, I have learned a valuable lesson here that you can't just post these kinds of spin-offs on their own without any frame of reference or familiar story elements. With poor execution, it just doesn't have the same impact / connection it's meant to have. This is meant to be included as an omake in my own monster epic fic on ff.net, but I felt like just posting it here early. Obviously, I messed up here and came in totally having unrealistic expectations. For all that I'm sorry for causing a ruckus.

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Old 2009-04-18, 19:36   Link #6594
Keroko
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He was thinking. Sitting in his chair, the fingers of one hand drumming against the arm rest while the other supported his chin, staring at the glass tubes containing the weapons he had obtained. Physically speaking, they were fine. Of course, he would be making his own modifications here and there, but that was not what was bothering him.

What was bothering him was a name.

It's a silly thing, a name. Especially for a weapon. You could call a gun a wrench and it would still perform the same. Names did not matter for weapons, only the result they achieved. And yet... he found it annoying. Perhaps it was because he was a scientist. Names were imperative for their profession, it was how they got things done.

Perhaps that was why he could not let this go.

Two weapons, two names. One was named Venti, the number 20 in another language. Unoriginal, but it had a ring. Perhaps he would add something later, but for now this name was passable. The other though, was called Ventiuno. 21. He felt his lips turn into a scowl. Not only was this simply a followup, the number so closely resembled the name of the other one that there was not even the slightest excuse for it. No, it did not even have a ring to it. It was a number, a number and not a name.

His fingers kept drumming on the arm rest. Names are troublesome things, sometimes they just appeared, other times you would have no way to think of one. He recalled what he knew of this weapon, perhaps that would aid him in finding a name. Long-range... quick... he ran the specs over in his head until they formed an image of how this weapon would fight. Lethal, very lethal. The enemy would never even know what hit them. Merciless.

The drumming stopped.

Merciless.

His mind raced back to a language he had once studied. A near dead language of a culture of warriors. They had a catchy translation for the word merciless. What was it again?

Ah yes, Adenn.

....

He let the name run around in his head. It fit, but... something was missing. Perhaps something should be added? He mulled over the thought. This weapon was merciless, but why was it merciless?

Ah.

Of course.

Standing up with a smirk playing on his lips, he walked closer to the tubes. Standing before the weapons, he smiled up at the one who had just received her new name. A name based on a language of a culture of warriors. A fitting name for a weapon.

Adenn Kyr'am.

Merciless Death.
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Old 2009-04-19, 00:21   Link #6595
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At risk of getting flamed again... duty calls...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Keroko View Post
Infinite Armory allows 21 to create a massive variety of weaponry and ammunition. These types of weaponry are limited to those programmed into the skill, and programming a new weapon takes a similar amount of time and effort as it would to create and tune a upgrade for a Device (which means that, going by StrikerS upgrading of Mach Calibur, it should take between 1 to 3 weeks of heavy maintenance) it cannot create magic, so she can't create filled cartridges with it, only empty shells for herself or others to fill.
That last was only one week, max, IIRC since next week she was going to face Ginga.

Quote:
Anti-Magilink bullets come in different shapes and sizes. There is the disruption round, which is created to explode on impact and create a burst-AMF that dispels magic it comes into contact with. This makes it useful to penetrate barriers or cancel channeled spells. It can also be used to intercept incoming spells. The downside of this round is that it does low physical damage, being that it explodes on impact.
If all it is having is AMF energy, why would it bursting produce physical damage?

Quote:
Another type is the jamming round, these types are created to actually survive impact, and then create an AMF pocket around their point of impact. The size of the bullets does not allow this AMF to be very powerful, but its radius extends to 3 meters around the zone of impact. However, the Fields do strengthen one another when in close vicinity. Since these rounds can't do much in the air, this is mostly an anti-ground ability designed to deny or hamper enemy spellcasting, as several of these rounds scattered around a battlezone would severely hamper the mage from fighting.

The third type I have in mind is the penetration round. This round would emit a constant high-density field with a radius of mere millimeters, allowing the bullets to penetrate Barriers and Fields. Their ability to do so varies, of course, with the strength of the defense in question. A B-rank mook may face a one-shot with this projectile, but to take down the barrier of AA-rank Subaru, a barrage is required. Thus this skill is more effective on lower ranked enemies, or weakened powerful ones.
Isn't Round 3 just a variant of Round 2? Why not just have Round 2 with a variable field of work. In fact, you can even have ONE round, and do a three-way tradeoff between Time, Volume and Average Effectiveness.

Besides, given the rules of volume expansion, given how weak you've set the field for a mere <10mm radius of action, the logical consequence is that the 3m radius of work Round 2, with at least 27,000,000 times the volume to cover will be basically useless if the field is equal density, and if it is variable density its useful radius of work will be substantially shorter than 3m (less than 30cm by the looks of it). You can play around with power requirements (Round 2 might be much more demanding per Round), but there IS a HUGE magnitude chasm here.

1 Quick and simple recommendation: Move the effectiveness rating of Round 3 to Round 2. When the radius is down to Round 3, it can punch a little hole through ANY (<SS or even somewhat more than this) shield. Since it doesn't do anything beyond punching that hole, it is probably not too h3xx.

Quote:
Then there is also the line of anti-cyborg rounds. So far I've only done the Ion round, which fires a blast of highly ionized particles. These particles seriously interfere with the operation of electronics and computer systems, shorting circuits and often disabling them outright. Depending on how much an enemy cyborg defends against this, and where it hits, a shot like this has the potential to take them out in one blow, very similar to Subaru's Vibration Shatter, only this one disables rather then destroys.
If you are shorting out lots of delicate circuits, you are destroying them.

Quote:
The bonus is that this round can also be used against devices, disabling them and allowing for easier capture. The downside is that this round causes next to no damage on living beings, reducing its use against mages lacking a device to zero.
Wow. How easy is it to disable a device using this method? It is clear that devices, while not absolutely essential for magic, are a fair part of the combat coefficient. If it is very easy to disable devices, then it is technically permissible (by FanFiction standards) but literarily speaking it is a balance breaker, and you'll just have decided for everyone else that their devices can be very easily disabled using ions.

Quote:
Did I leave that impression? Sorry, that was not my intent. While it is a good idea to keep CC's involved in a story, that is not what made me feel this was not a Nanoha story I was reading. It was more the wording that could easily be used in a Star Wars story, the lack of Nanoha-style battles, no mention of any known story factors (TSAB, Belka, what have you) things like that. The title didn't help either, like I said, I just finished a session of Republic Commando myself, so the whole Geonosis mission was fresh in my mind.
I've glimpsed at JamesEdwards' blurb. I'll have to agree. Sure, it is OK to not use the canon characters. But there is a point when you can't really tell that it is MGLN at all. I'll say the question is very simple. Without the terms "MGLN" in the title, was it even possible to tell that it was even supposed to be happening in MGLN? In fact, with Geonosis and "Sithspit", my first stab would be this is the Star Wars universe. IMO, the answer is no. And for once we seem to agree

As for the writing, I supposed James was really trying to write it in some form of slang, and while it is still comprehensible, using it even for the parts that aren't dialogue makes it harder to process.
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Old 2009-04-19, 00:38   Link #6596
AdmiralTigerclaw
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Okay, here's the knife sequence I had been working towards... I ended up doing two throws, but I want to ensure my execution comes across as showoffy of roland, but not showoffy to the point where the reader thinks the story itself is being too showoffy...

Spoiler for Neat Knife Tricks:


Mainly, I decided that the best evolution is to have Crash successfully 'challenge' the General, and show just a little more why Roland is a General, and add depth to it, but do it in such a way that Roland is essentially responding to a minion's attempt on his personal pride rather than just trying to show up our main cast...

You guys let me know if I lay it on a bit too thick, or if it works.
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Old 2009-04-19, 00:40   Link #6597
JamesEdwards
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Quote:
Originally Posted by arkhangelsk View Post
As for the writing, I supposed James was really trying to write it in some form of slang, and while it is still comprehensible, using it even for the parts that aren't dialogue makes it harder to process.
Well, Cogitator General, with all due respect. The story takes place in first person perspective, and I was taking a stab at a Southern accent. I thought it would be kind of peculiar if the character spoke Texas style, but thought in normal plain, respectable American English. ...Or would you have preferred that in perfect iambic pentameter, Shakespearean British English?



You are not the only one who commands purple prose and Sesquipedalian Loquaciousness.
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Old 2009-04-19, 00:50   Link #6598
Wild Goose
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Being a Cogitator General of the Mathnova's Witnesses, arkh has no inclination for that silly thing known as writing.

Arkh, this is OCT, kindly leave your overanalysis and nitpickery perspective out the door. We are not in Magitech.

anyway, James, you really oughta drop by IRC sometime. Head to www.mibbit.com/chat and use #outercadia as your chatroom.

Edit: Arkh, if you call this flaming... you are an ass and a baby. But mostly, a baby. I'm not flaming. I'm mocking.
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Old 2009-04-19, 01:03   Link #6599
itanshi1
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LoweGear View Post
Null Absolution is the IS that's truly inherent to Yuzu (Absolute Judgement is a later add-on through genetic tampering and phsyical modification). It's basically a field that dissolves any unformed magic particles it comes into contact with, which makes it more efficient at defending against magic attack than traditional AMF - Null Absolution requires only a third of the power to dissolve a AA+ rank spell compared to traditional AMF for example, and at its current power it can easily stop AA+ rank attacks and below with ease . It's anti-magic nature also means it's damaging to magical constructs - while Linker Cores and magical program beings won't be destroyed by mere contact, prolonged exposure would be quite dangerous.
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Old 2009-04-19, 01:42   Link #6600
LoweGear
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Keroko View Post
"... I suppose deliberate comebacks are as well then?"
"... unfortunately so, lest by accident..."

Quote:
Originally Posted by Keroko
... I think I just found one part of their personality 21 and Eden have in common.
... a blatant contempt for Acous Verossa?


Quote:
Originally Posted by Keroko
Hmm *ponders* Yes, that's likely. Even though 21 sees her relationship with Yuzu as one of sisters rather then lovers, seeing Yuzu's attention shift to Mai would feel like losing... though I don't think it will boil down to a 'don't get close to my imouto' type relationship, I do think this will form the base of a rivalry for 21 to try and outperform Mai.
It also doesn't help that Mai herself is stubborn and forceful at times, and she partly sees Yuzu as a large, cute plush doll to play with (hence her like for the ears ), and thus often drags her into her room to sleep with her... no, not in that manner >.>

*confiscates all the Yuri goggles*

I can suddenly see both onee-chans in a covert war for Yuzu's affections - who can dote on her more

Quote:
Originally Posted by Keroko
Another con -such as it is- would be that she can't touch a Linker Core directly I assume? Though a problem I see is that cyborgs are already very tough without this kind of defense. Is there a payoff in that regard? Such as her physical structure not being as tough as the other cyborgs?
Well, she can touch a Linker Core directly - being that Linker Cores are organs that not only form out of a person's genetic base, but also sustained by nutrients from food, I'm assuming that Linker Cores are partly biological for whatever mysterious reason. Thus she can't destroy a linker core by just touching it, though the effect would be much like draining all the energy away from it - and as A's shows, that can be a very painful process. Same pain is felt by Rein Zwei or the Wolkenritter whenever they're within the field. Thankfully the field can be turned off, and even when active can easily be avoided by keeping your arm's length away from her.

Also, the payoff is quite simple: The power consumption needed to maintain her strength enhancement implants (the most powerful out of the Numbers series), her IS's, and her Sylpherion Raiser (the flightpack is needed for her to fly since an active Null Absolution nullifies flight ability - not like she can actually fly at all without it) is much greater than other Cyborgs of her class, making her operationally limited in terms of combat endurance. It is possible to outlast her simply by staying out of her way, and without ranged weapons Yuzu herself can't force her enemies into range either. Kinda working on specific numbers at the moment (no pun intended), but with all systems functional at optimum performance, say 5-10 minutes max? Meaning she's not the type you send into prolonged combat situations.

Also, use of either of her IS's gives her movement and agility penalties due to the messy nature of her power distribution systems, with her becoming noticeably sluggish when using her 2nd IS, relying on flightpack maneuvering or her brute strength to fight. This makes her vulnerable to very fast moving and agile units - she can catch up to them, but they'll run circles around her.

Another thing of note about Null Absolution: It can actually be purged as a spherical wave, destroying any stray and residual magic particles in the surrounding area, and disrupting spells in the process. It also makes mana collection spells like Starlight Breaker difficult in the area - you can't collect mana when there is none to collect afterall. Though this ability is a one-time use desperation measure that leaves her unable to use the IS for a while.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Keroko
Infinite Armory allows 21 to create a massive variety of weaponry and ammunition. These types of weaponry are limited to those programmed into the skill, and programming a new weapon takes a similar amount of time and effort as it would to create and tune a upgrade for a Device (which means that, going by StrikerS upgrading of Mach Calibur, it should take between 1 to 3 weeks of heavy maintenance) it cannot create magic, so she can't create filled cartridges with it, only empty shells for herself or others to fill.
Methinks she should work more as a weapons smith/ device meister than a warrior... kinda like Aurion...



Quote:
Originally Posted by Keroko
Anti-Magilink bullets come in different shapes and sizes. There is the disruption round, which is created to explode on impact and create a burst-AMF that dispels magic it comes into contact with. This makes it useful to penetrate barriers or cancel channeled spells. It can also be used to intercept incoming spells. The downside of this round is that it does low physical damage, being that it explodes on impact.

Another type is the jamming round, these types are created to actually survive impact, and then create an AMF pocket around their point of impact. The size of the bullets does not allow this AMF to be very powerful, but its radius extends to 3 meters around the zone of impact. However, the Fields do strengthen one another when in close vicinity. Since these rounds can't do much in the air, this is mostly an anti-ground ability designed to deny or hamper enemy spellcasting, as several of these rounds scattered around a battlezone would severely hamper the mage from fighting.

The third type I have in mind is the penetration round. This round would emit a constant high-density field with a radius of mere millimeters, allowing the bullets to penetrate Barriers and Fields. Their ability to do so varies, of course, with the strength of the defense in question. A B-rank mook may face a one-shot with this projectile, but to take down the barrier of AA-rank Subaru, a barrage is required. Thus this skill is more effective on lower ranked enemies, or weakened powerful ones.

Then there is also the line of anti-cyborg rounds. So far I've only done the Ion round, which fires a blast of highly ionized particles. These particles seriously interfere with the operation of electronics and computer systems, shorting circuits and often disabling them outright. Depending on how much an enemy cyborg defends against this, and where it hits, a shot like this has the potential to take them out in one blow, very similar to Subaru's Vibration Shatter, only this one disables rather then destroys. The bonus is that this round can also be used against devices, disabling them and allowing for easier capture. The downside is that this round causes next to no damage on living beings, reducing its use against mages lacking a device to zero.
All other points of contention have been covered by pretty much everyone else, personally I see no problem with the variety or function of the bullets - different shapes for different occasions. They do make an interesting counterpoint to Yuzu though - Yuzu is a blanket disabler that can only disable objects within range, while Adenn is a pin-point disabler with better reach and versatility.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Keroko
Nostalgia, maybe?
Nothing stopping them I guess. But even Fate changed her default Barrier Jacket into something to her tastes later on

Quote:
Originally Posted by AtomicoX View Post
So I decided to do a revamp of my OC's layouts and also update them with more info. Also introducing a third OC.
Linking back to the two other updated ones because I don't see the need to post a whole new one.
----------
Sigrid
Elisabeth

Aaaand here is the new OC.

Spoiler for Angelika:
A Missing Persons case for a OC? Wow... better get writing on the rest of the profile quick

Quote:
Originally Posted by Keroko View Post
He was thinking. Sitting in his chair, the fingers of one hand drumming against the arm rest while the other supported his chin, staring at the glass tubes containing the weapons he had obtained. Physically speaking, they were fine. Of course, he would be making his own modifications here and there, but that was not what was bothering him.

What was bothering him was a name.

It's a silly thing, a name. Especially for a weapon. You could call a gun a wrench and it would still perform the same. Names did not matter for weapons, only the result they achieved. And yet... he found it annoying. Perhaps it was because he was a scientist. Names were imperative for their profession, it was how they got things done.

Perhaps that was why he could not let this go.

Two weapons, two names. One was named Venti, the number 20 in another language. Unoriginal, but it had a ring. Perhaps he would add something later, but for now this name was passable. The other though, was called Ventiuno. 21. He felt his lips turn into a scowl. Not only was this simply a followup, the number so closely resembled the name of the other one that there was not even the slightest excuse for it. No, it did not even have a ring to it. It was a number, a number and not a name.

His fingers kept drumming on the arm rest. Names are troublesome things, sometimes they just appeared, other times you would have no way to think of one. He recalled what he knew of this weapon, perhaps that would aid him in finding a name. Long-range... quick... he ran the specs over in his head until they formed an image of how this weapon would fight. Lethal, very lethal. The enemy would never even know what hit them. Merciless.

The drumming stopped.

Merciless.

His mind raced back to a language he had once studied. A near dead language of a culture of warriors. They had a catchy translation for the word merciless. What was it again?

Ah yes, Adenn.

....

He let the name run around in his head. It fit, but... something was missing. Perhaps something should be added? He mulled over the thought. This weapon was merciless, but why was it merciless?

Ah.

Of course.

Standing up with a smirk playing on his lips, he walked closer to the tubes. Standing before the weapons, he smiled up at the one who had just received her new name. A name based on a language of a culture of warriors. A fitting name for a weapon.

Adenn Kyr'am.

Merciless Death.
... thought processes exactly similar to mine when trying to think up of a name, though replace "scientist" with "writer" and we're all set. Though now we have another problem... the name of this character himself, which'll be almost as difficult to think about
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