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Old 2009-08-09, 08:25   Link #7781
AdmiralTigerclaw
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No, that's EINHANDER, not Einherjar.

One-Hand

not,

One in a Thousand (Or whatever that other one is.)
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Old 2009-08-09, 10:47   Link #7782
synaesthetic
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einherjar roughly translates to "Army of One."
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Old 2009-08-09, 11:39   Link #7783
DezoPenguin
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It's also an allusion to Norse/Germanic mythology; it was the name for the spirits of slain warriors who the Valkyries brought to Valhalla; they fought on the side of the gods at Ragnarok.
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Old 2009-08-10, 01:59   Link #7784
AdmiralTigerclaw
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Here's a little side trip from my mind...

Do mages participate in Air Shows?

Just like the second half of this vid.

Spoiler for Cranagan Air Show:
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Last edited by AdmiralTigerclaw; 2009-08-10 at 09:02.
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Old 2009-08-10, 09:00   Link #7785
synaesthetic
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Amusing, though why doesn't the plane just launch a missile at her from the edge of the arena boundaries? ^^; Considering how dogfighting went out in WW2 and most air combat engagements happen well outside of visual range.

Yes, yes it's less fun that way, but I enjoy seeing the fantastic bested by the mundane!
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Old 2009-08-10, 09:31   Link #7786
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because if that were the case, there'd be only one paragraph.

Quote:
The missile was fired. It went boom. Game over for Fate.

-THE END-
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Old 2009-08-10, 12:27   Link #7787
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Well, Fate's shown dodging magical attacks which move much faster than missiles, and in Nena's story she dodges particle beams moving at a good ninety-plus percent of the speed of light...
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Old 2009-08-10, 18:54   Link #7788
MeisterBabylon
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Doesn't deny her from having an ISARA!!! moment.

btw Canaan, that is one scary avatar... :3
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Old 2009-08-10, 19:00   Link #7789
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don't hate on Beatrice-sama!
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Old 2009-08-10, 19:05   Link #7790
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Uuu! Uuu!

*fleez*
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Old 2009-08-10, 19:35   Link #7791
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Quote:
Originally Posted by synaesthetic View Post
Amusing, though why doesn't the plane just launch a missile at her from the edge of the arena boundaries? ^^; Considering how dogfighting went out in WW2 and most air combat engagements happen well outside of visual range.
That assumes the hostile is confirmed at the opening of the fight. In the case of some situations, positively IDing an opponent is part of the ROE. If you cannot POSITIVELY ID a target, you can't shoot at it. No matter how much you can deduce from evidence that its an enemy.

As I pointed out in the ficlet... mage signatures are personally unique, so trying to identify an opponent as a friendly or hostile may be neigh impossible until visual identification is made at the Merge. And this means that you cannot assume things about contacts.

ROE is a bitch, and while it may technically be easier to just fire and forget on what appears to be a possible opponent rising to meet you, you could be firing on someone deciding to defect and run to you for safety, it could be a low value opponent used to gauge your intent.... It could be a spy you weren't informed about due to lack of Need to Know... Any number of possibilities.
While it SEEMS obvious... military units do not have room for such error when lives are on the line. Positive ID is REQUIRED.

You want to see what happens when someone doesn't follow the Rules of Engagement? Very BAD things. (Cut to about 5:00)
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Old 2009-08-10, 21:38   Link #7792
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AdmiralTigerclaw View Post
That assumes the hostile is confirmed at the opening of the fight. In the case of some situations, positively IDing an opponent is part of the ROE. If you cannot POSITIVELY ID a target, you can't shoot at it. No matter how much you can deduce from evidence that its an enemy.

As I pointed out in the ficlet... mage signatures are personally unique, so trying to identify an opponent as a friendly or hostile may be neigh impossible until visual identification is made at the Merge. And this means that you cannot assume things about contacts.

ROE is a bitch, and while it may technically be easier to just fire and forget on what appears to be a possible opponent rising to meet you, you could be firing on someone deciding to defect and run to you for safety, it could be a low value opponent used to gauge your intent.... It could be a spy you weren't informed about due to lack of Need to Know... Any number of possibilities.
While it SEEMS obvious... military units do not have room for such error when lives are on the line. Positive ID is REQUIRED.

You want to see what happens when someone doesn't follow the Rules of Engagement? Very BAD things. (Cut to about 5:00)
This is why all F-14 Tomcat squadrons had a few birds fitted with the TCS, a long-range camera sight, for 10 mile visual ID. The birds without TCS made do by mounting 10x rifle scopes to the HUD, which was also used by F-15 squadrons.
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Old 2009-08-10, 22:15   Link #7793
synaesthetic
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Military rules are so inconvenient. ^^;

And now for a little teaser of 4th phase...

Spoiler for teaser!:
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Old 2009-08-10, 23:50   Link #7794
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Quote:
Originally Posted by synaesthetic View Post
Military rules are so inconvenient. ^^;
Tell that to the British. You click that link and see what happened? The RoE were not correctly followed... Because of that, a cockup that should not have occured, occured.
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Old 2009-08-11, 01:21   Link #7795
arkhangelsk
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AdmiralTigerclaw View Post
Those attending will be interested to find out that today's combat demonstration exercise will be between a high capacity air combat mage, and a modern combat starfighter piloted by our most decorated vehicle combat instructor.

Our Air Combat Mage for today will be Captain Fate T. Harlowne of Riot Force Six, utilizing the Intelligent Magical Device, Bardiche.

Her callsign today is Lightning.

Our pilot for our starfighter is Captain David T. Hawkins, piloting a model A SF-36 ATASI 'Raptor Interceptor'. A crowd favorite since its introduction to the TSAB Navy.
His callsign today is Ranger.

Monitoring the battlespace today and providing real time high resolution imagery for the audience is Agressor Squadron Combat Instructor, Captain Takamachi Nanoha. She will be giving us an uninterrupted view of the action through the use of multiple tracking spells known as the Wide Area Search.
I'll ignore the canonicity problems of WAS having that much search ability. You will decide that ROE is the major reason why the fight had to go WVR, but you've just declared that it is possible to, using the resources of a single magitech device, resolve the problem of visual acquisition (and identification) of high speed targets over a very wide area. We know Fate doesn't have WAS so it isn't a problem for her, but it starts to feel wierd as to why that uber new starfighter of yours, presumably having the best magitech computers, doesn't have any similar function, forcing poor Hawkins to make a visual ID in a most primitive manner! (Before you say it is some kind of mage only capability, do note that we have routinely seen similar imagery in Arthra's bridge).

Quote:
"Longarch, Lightning.... Unknown spacecraft entering area at vector zero nine zero, altitude angels eighty and dropping. You are instructed to intercept and assess bogey. Over."
Fate: Thanks, Longarch. You let me know his relative bearing. I don't know his course. i don't know his speed. I don't even know the relative distance as of your announcement! I can't compute my intercept vector, or even whether I'm in critical angle so I can intercept him!

Quote:
"Lightning, Longarch... Roger, on the way. Over."

/

"Longarch, Ranger. Surface target rising to intercept you. Close and identify. Be advised, recon indicates high level mage a possible threat."
This communique is even more ridiculously lacking in the important things I need to know.

Quote:
"Ranger, Longarch... Roger that. Closing at Mach ten... Proceding with S turn to reduce speed for ID pass."
At least as importantly, the whole scenario of this combat exercise is unclear. Later, you will decide that Hawkins is supposed to be the attacker, so one surmises the exercise setup is that he's attacking an objective Fate is defending (thus she can win if she "repulses" the attacker). His safest choice is to maintain speed and get on with getting in range of the hypothetical objective so he can (for example) simulate bombing it and get out, all without letting anyone reach him. He can consider whether to engage Fate after this...

If due to some exercise artificiality, he's obliged to engage Fate, it STILL doesn't wash because if Hawkins is attacking something, by TSAB rules he's probably simulating a bad guy (say a terrorist). Why would a terrorist feel like following disadvantageous ROE?

If it is an entirely artificial 1v1, then the later attack-defend scenario doesn't fit, and then identification problems shouldn't exist.

Quote:
Now that both combatants are cleared to engage each other. Fate will waste no time in trying to break away from her opponent's sights. Luckly, at close range, Fate is able to easily snap to the side using a method known as a Sonic Move, causing Ranger to overshoot her.
Fate snaps to the SIDE (not to the back) with Sonic Move, and Ranger overshoots her? Hmm...

Quote:
Fate, while unable to sustain more than maybe mach two or three, and incapable of operating beyond thirty thousand feet for more than a few minutes at a time, has the advantage in agility and attack diversity, and is a very small and hard to hit target. She also has attacks that can be steered, and are capable of chasing her targets more persistantly than missiles.
Would that necessarily be true?

Quote:
Fate does her best to maintain her counter by surface skimming the ocean. This is easily possible for a mage, but dangerous for a combat fighter.
I thought there was a 500m hard low altitude limit on this exercise. 500m MSL is not "skimming" by any reasonable definition.

Quote:
"Ranger, weapons free, going for Crusader Lock."
I thought you were weapons free a minute ago! And IIRC "weapons free" is supposed to be from higher authority than the shooter.

Quote:
Hawkins is attempting to engage with an SIM-11 Crusader missile. Normally, he'd engage combat targets with an SIM-7 Shuriken. But Fate doesn't put out a thermal, magnetic, or ionic emmission strong enough for it to track.
Now ain't THAT convenient. The SIM-7 Shuriken apparently has almost every type of guidance, except for the sensors we KNOW the TSAB to have (it is not canonically clear they DO have anything else) - magical and visual! Is this some kind of setup?

Quote:
With a persistant anti-ship capable missile bearing down on her, Fate has to act on the defensive to defeat it.

"Arc Saber!"

Fate is utilizing a magic attack custom to her only, A three foot arc of magically contained plasma. The attack is launched by a swing and steered by her device towards the target. Our mage has opted to engage the weapon directly to destroy it before it can close the gap.
I think I'll just close my eyes on the canon likelihood of Fate being able to resolve the fire control problems involved in getting the relatively slow Arc Saber to possibly intercept the presumably supersonic/hypersonic Crusader within its limited range. The Crusader should arguably have finished its journey before Fate can even charge her attack!

Quote:
"Plasma Lancer!"

Watch as Hawkins weaves to evade the attack. Although he only needs to turn once to avoid being hit, he continues to curve back and forth to prevent Fate from getting a clear shot.
Fate takes advantage of Hawkins' tight turns and chases him down by aiming for an area ahead of him. Anticipating this move, Hawkins quickly reverses and crosses over, causing Fate to overshoot.
Similar thing here.

While we are at this, I can't see the diagrams, but why doesn't Hawkins ever try a Full extension? He has the advantage in speed and altitude. After his (awfully forced) visual ID pass, what he really needs to do is get back to his own home theater (height and speed), where he can engage with impunity, or get on with his objective.

Quote:
"Longarch, Ranger. New contacts at vector two seven zero. Counting five, potentially enemy reinforcements."

"Ranger, Longarch... Roger that. Extending on vector two zero zero, and climbing to Egress Angle."

Faced with six to one odds, Hawkins has decided that discretion is the better part of valour. He selects an escape route that gives him a strong off angle against his new opposition and accellerates. In thirty seconds, he will pass to the southwest of the stands at a distance of six nautical miles while climbing to his egress altitude.
If the man can disengage so freely, why not at least make a pass with all remaining standoff weapons against the new "opposition"? With his speed superiority, the critical angles are extremely small - it shouldn't be hard to completely deny the mage opposition a chance to engage him, while at least giving himself a valid firing pass.

Of course, he can also progress to his real objective, but that was in the toilet from ten minutes back...
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Old 2009-08-11, 01:22   Link #7796
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...

Serious business.
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Old 2009-08-11, 02:47   Link #7797
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I'm still waiting for a right moment to pounce here. The openings right now are too weak...
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Old 2009-08-11, 08:38   Link #7798
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Did Ark say something at me? I have him on block.
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Old 2009-08-11, 08:44   Link #7799
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Originally Posted by AdmiralTigerclaw View Post
Did Ark say something at me? I have him on block.
No, he didn't.

Move along now.
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Old 2009-08-11, 09:04   Link #7800
MeisterBabylon
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Originally Posted by Keroko View Post
I'm still waiting for a right moment to pounce here. The openings right now are too weak...
*has a mental image of catgirl!Keroko waiting to pounce*

...

...okay that's one too many shots of Khrack for one night...

*wanders off muttering he's a guy he's a guy...*
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