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Old 2008-06-24, 21:21   Link #1801
Jimmy C
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Keroko View Post
her purple/green Device on her hands, which looks like a Device meant to augument her melee abillities, concidering the knuckles.
I don't think that can be considered a Device. It's more like the gems decorating other BJs. Besides, if it was a Device, where had it been hiding prior to appearing?
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Old 2008-06-24, 22:43   Link #1802
Kha
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Everyone covered the points nicely, and yes Data Collection can be the baseline skill for Tra--

*is shot*

But without further ado, another excellent artist mercurianangel has gracefully agreed to help out with the Codex, and here's another shot:
Spoiler for Kha in Knight's Garb:
Original Kha is brighter than Clone Kha, so this pic does bring out the difference more than Fate's sketch, which was meant to catch Kha in his darker moods.

Kha is decked in his Knight's Garb, which is easily inverted to become the Knight Armor mode, sans some consecrated metal plating that we see in Fate's sketch. Behind him is the coat of arms of the Cleric-Knights, the aptly named Celestial Being, Chamber Militant of the Licht von Belka.

I wanted a good cassock for Kha's clerical duties, but since the Kruznik's refused to leave my mind... I used it. And yes I should've gone Alucard pose, but this pic was based off Shiro's character song album cover, and Alucard might be more of an OOC reference for reference sake, so I'll pass.

And most of all, mercurianangel managed to bring out all that in a professionally done manner! The assistant to Dark God Satashi bestows us with a great gift! We must thank her wholeheartedly!
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Old 2008-06-24, 22:54   Link #1803
Silvance
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kha View Post
Spoiler for Kha in Knight's Garb:

.


MercurianAngel truly is godly o_o. I'm quite envious of your skills expecially when coloring the sketch . Kha's coolness leveled up even more
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Old 2008-06-24, 22:57   Link #1804
Kha
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The both of you have different strengths, so really there's no real comparison! I'm just very very grateful to have both of you helping.
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Old 2008-06-24, 23:00   Link #1805
Silvance
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no need for thanks, Kha. It was a good practice for me before I design Asclei's third barrier jacket--Sigma Form (full bodied armor). Besides, it was fun too XD.
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Old 2008-06-24, 23:07   Link #1806
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Old 2008-06-24, 23:29   Link #1807
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Keroko View Post
Longinus, Amenonuhoko, Luín, Gae Bolg, Trishula, Rhongomiant, Kongo, Bionac, Culghlas, Crann Buidhe, Cual gae...

There's quite a lot of them, its just that Gungnir and Gae Bolg show up fastest, and Gungnir has ties in Norse Mythology like Levantein, making it an obvious choice, while Gae Bolg isn't used for equally obvious reasons. Don't want people to scream Lancer rippof just for your choice of weapon after all.
And I know like... two of those. Should probably have clarifed that you tend to hear less about supposedly magical spears and such then you do about magic swords in fiction and "histroy".

Quote:
Though I'm surprised you would actually go for a hammer over a spear. Speaking of which though, do we have anyone with a device called Mjolnir?
Acutally what I meant was that you hear about Mjolnir all over the place for anything even VAUGELY martail or hammer related and it's way more overexposed IMO (Of course both pale into insignifgance before the Grand Champion Excalibur dosen't matter WHAT it is some version of it has surely been named Excalibur at some time be it a Spaceship, Transofmring Mecha, Artillery Shell, or horse grooming products...). as for the second bit I'd be stunned if we didn't and yet I can't recall one off the top of my head.

Quote:
I usually prefer snipers when playing shooters. Ironic, isn't it?
I was referring more to TF:2 specifically in which the Solider is the closest thing to an “all around class” hell his rockets are actually one of the better distance weapons since they don’t spread at all and have no range limit. (Though they are kind of slow so the lead at longer ranges becomes an issue, but hey they’re ROCKETS that’s what splash damage is for…)

In more general terms though I prefer to play a mid range character who may also have a slight bent toward longer range battle if I had a signature weapon it would probably be a scoped assault rifle with decent per hit damage and accuracy. (The fact medic type characters in the BF series get this is merely one more reason I like it ).

Quote:
*taps chin* True, after all Rule of Cool is widely used in Nanoha already.
I think half the shit in the series basically runs on it.

Quote:
I'd think he could use a utillity spell or two to give him some melee defence at least. Maybe a delayed bind spell or something to prevent people from getting close. Or Barrier Burst to create distance between him and anyone who gets close. Since his position is to 'move as little as possible' he'd be using movement magic to hold his ground, and his oponent is the one who flies away.
In this case his “melee defense” is his speed focused teammate bashing anyone that tries to get near him in the face with a spear, and failing that a strong barrier is a rather good defense against melee. (Just ask Yunno) Besides the entire point was that he’s a tank and is slow but with high firepower and defense it might take him half the fight to get into position, but once he dose watch out and if you need a guy to stand somewhere and keep people back he’s your man.

And yes I know I’ve always promoted a fairly generalist approaches before and this seems to go against that, but trust me I haven’t forgotten and his massive lack of speed will be an issue that’s noted. This guy is one of the newer somewhat lower level recruits in the fic (AA- at induction) and a number of those guys have developed in ways that aren’t really ideal due a lack of effective guidance and have been getting by mostly on raw power and talent.

Quote:
So instead of what canon does, and drop defence in favor of speed, you drop attack in favor of speed?
Sort of the style is less about like huge knock out attacks fueled by cartridge spam and more about multiple faster, but weaker attacks (this also makes it useful against multiple weaker foes). Defense is also on average a bit weaker, but speed is a bit higher. Perhaps the biggest difference is that you won’t see a ton of classic Nanoha style spell casting none of these guys are going to be tossing energy beams and bolts and stuff. Its basically geared toward emulating a more “classic” anime style melee system allot of Charles Atlas Superpowers, absurd ability to soak damage, and vaguely magical special attacks but the guys aren’t actually flying, shooting energy blasts, and forming glowing energy shield domes and stuff (mostly at least if they purport to be "pure" examples).

In practice Belka could do pretty much the same thing so it’s somewhat less a matter of it being vastly different system so much as having a different focus. Basically these guys aren’t tanks like many Belkan users they still have good attack power, pretty good speed, and a so-so defense. The lack of cartridges reduces there ability to get in big hits, but also reduces strain and the emphasis away from high powered magical fireworks reduces mana use giving them better endurance. (though at an overall lower output for the most part) Honestly Belka is quite possibly an overall superior system, but it has one critical disadvantage it’s foreign. The other system in question is basically a home grown system that’s part of the planets overall culture and so is still taught and preferred by many of the worlds users. Course this also reduces the injection of fresh ideas and many of the users can come off as stuffy and close minded.

Though really the entire idea is sort of a "take that!" at the fact that allot of melee fighters around seem to be Belks that rely on spamming reams of cartridges in order to attack at "Maximum POWA!!!". Really though I don't like the cartridge spam in general and in my fic I've tried to tone it down and make using them actually seem like a choice with drawbacks instead of it just being SOP for everyone with a name to spam the fuck out of them. I think I had like a dozen guys in my latest fight scene and precisely three of them even had cartridge systems fitted on there devices to begin with: Vita, Felix, and Pixy and they weren’t even actually using them.

This is old, but as I eat through the backlog this caught my eye.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Keroko View Post
One has to remember that the Belkans also managed to manufacture those Type IV drones. If they can manufacture dones of that level, re-design and re-program warships (and concidering its role as a birthplace, this was done long before 300 years ago), why should other conventional weaponry be a limit?

Now this is just a personal theory, and has no base whatsoever, but I am sensing that part of the objection here is because it means that the melee-oriented Belkan magic would have been a match for conventional ranged weaponry.

Needless to say, there are certain sources here who would not be happy with that being canon.
OR too turn it around it could mean that magic simply wasn't a huge factor in the old wars and that while mages had a role as powerful infantry units conventional weapons like tanks, aircraft, and such played a very large part as well and may have been superior to mages in many roles which would make OTHER people unhappy.

That said this is a false dilemma IMO it intrinsically seems to assume that either magic or tech must be dominate and that they can’t co-exist with some sort of balance of power between them. This is nonsense mages would CLEARLY have a rule in any war even with a high tech level, but unlike in the entirely artificial state of affairs in the current TSAB they wouldn’t be the ONLY players or possibly even the players with the most sway. I have no problem seeing how this would work as I envisioned something very much like this for the war on Usea stuff like aerial mages escorting troop carrying helicopters while fighter jets flew top cover higher up for instance. My own crack verse is even more absurd with stuff like mages in rocket propelled power armor fighting battlemechs and war droids, while transforming fighter jets duke it out in the sky, and legions of mecha and battleships contest orbit. (needless to say when some members of this culture are exposed to the TSABs “methods” or warfare they find them somewhat... quaint.)
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Last edited by Tk3997; 2008-06-25 at 00:35.
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Old 2008-06-24, 23:31   Link #1808
LoweGear
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kha View Post
Spoiler for Kha in Knight's Garb:


CELESTIAL BEING INDEED!!!!!

Damn, looks very AWESOMELY Spiffy there Mercurianangel truly is GODLIKE
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Old 2008-06-25, 02:30   Link #1809
Keroko
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jimmy C View Post
I don't think that can be considered a Device. It's more like the gems decorating other BJs. Besides, if it was a Device, where had it been hiding prior to appearing?
It's the closest thing we have, especially concidering these gems look a lot like Caro/ Lutecia's Devices, which were also gems on gloves. As for where it had been hiding, inside the Relic is a good possibility. It was a Relic that was specific to the Saint King after all.

And those 'decorative gems' on other Barrier Jackets are actually functional parts of the Barrier Jacket.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kha View Post
Everyone covered the points nicely, and yes Data Collection can be the baseline skill for Tra--

*is shot*
It does show that copying is not at all beyond possible.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kha View Post
But without further ado, another excellent artist mercurianangel has gracefully agreed to help out with the Codex, and here's another shot:
Spoiler for Kha in Knight's Garb:
Original Kha is brighter than Clone Kha, so this pic does bring out the difference more than Fate's sketch, which was meant to catch Kha in his darker moods.

Kha is decked in his Knight's Garb, which is easily inverted to become the Knight Armor mode, sans some consecrated metal plating that we see in Fate's sketch. Behind him is the coat of arms of the Cleric-Knights, the aptly named Celestial Being, Chamber Militant of the Licht von Belka.

I wanted a good cassock for Kha's clerical duties, but since the Kruznik's refused to leave my mind... I used it. And yes I should've gone Alucard pose, but this pic was based off Shiro's character song album cover, and Alucard might be more of an OOC reference for reference sake, so I'll pass.

And most of all, mercurianangel managed to bring out all that in a professionally done manner! The assistant to Dark God Satashi bestows us with a great gift! We must thank her wholeheartedly!
Wow, yet another awesome Kha picture!

Though it slipped my mind... what is the difference between white hair/orange hair Kha?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tk3997 View Post
And I know like... two of those. Should probably have clarifed that you tend to hear less about supposedly magical spears and such then you do about magic swords in fiction and "histroy".
That's true. The amount of well known legendary swords is staggering compared to other weapons.

Now bows, those tend to be tricky to find.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tk3997 View Post
Acutally what I meant was that you hear about Mjolnir all over the place for anything even VAUGELY martail or hammer related and it's way more overexposed IMO (Of course both pale into insignifgance before the Grand Champion Excalibur dosen't matter WHAT it is some version of it has surely been named Excalibur at some time be it a Spaceship, Transofmring Mecha, Artillery Shell, or horse grooming products...). as for the second bit I'd be stunned if we didn't and yet I can't recall one off the top of my head.
Nor can I... Weird, you'd think that Vita would spawn a legion of hammer wielding mages.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tk3997 View Post
I think half the shit in the series basically runs on it.
Probably more then half, but I don't care.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tk3997 View Post
In this case his “melee defense” is his speed focused teammate bashing anyone that tries to get near him in the face with a spear, and failing that a strong barrier is a rather good defense against melee. (Just ask Yunno) Besides the entire point was that he’s a tank and is slow but with high firepower and defense it might take him half the fight to get into position, but once he dose watch out and if you need a guy to stand somewhere and keep people back he’s your man.

And yes I know I’ve always promoted a fairly generalist approaches before and this seems to go against that, but trust me I haven’t forgotten and his massive lack of speed will be an issue that’s noted. This guy is one of the newer somewhat lower level recruits in the fic (AA- at induction) and a number of those guys have developed in ways that aren’t really ideal due a lack of effective guidance and have been getting by mostly on raw power and talent.
Noted. And nothing wrong with going outside your normal aproach, Syn is shaping up to be a mid- to long range combatant with virtually no melee offensive. Usually my characters tend to be close- to mid ranged, if not purely close-ranged characters.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tk3997 View Post
Sort of the style is less about like huge knock out attacks fueled by cartridge spam and more about multiple faster, but weaker attacks (this also makes it useful against multiple weaker foes). Defense is also on average a bit weaker, but speed is a bit higher. Perhaps the biggest difference is that you won’t see a ton of classic Nanoha style spell casting none of these guys are going to be tossing energy beams and bolts and stuff. Its basically geared toward emulating a more “classic” anime style melee system allot of Charles Atlas Superpowers, absurd ability to soak damage, and vaguely magical special attacks but the guys aren’t actually flying, shooting energy blasts, and forming glowing energy shield domes and stuff (mostly at least if they purport to be "pure" examples).
I always wondered why none of these tropes was applied to Vita when she got stabbed...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tk3997 View Post
Though really the entire idea is sort of a "take that!" at the fact that allot of melee fighters around seem to be Belks that rely on spamming reams of cartridges in order to attack at "Maximum POWA!!!". Really though I don't like the cartridge spam in general and in my fic I've tried to tone it down and make using them actually seem like a choice with drawbacks instead of it just being SOP for everyone with a name to spam the fuck out of them. I think I had like a dozen guys in my latest fight scene and precisely three of them even had cartridge systems fitted on there devices to begin with: Vita, Felix, and Pixy and they weren’t even actually using them.
Then you may find it amusing that if canon continues with what we're given, Vivio will completely lack a Cartridge system.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tk3997 View Post
This is old, but as I eat through the backlog this caught my eye.
OR too turn it around it could mean that magic simply wasn't a huge factor in the old wars and that while mages had a role as powerful infantry units conventional weapons like tanks, aircraft, and such played a very large part as well and may have been superior to mages in many roles which would make OTHER people unhappy.

That said this is a false dilemma IMO it intrinsically seems to assume that either magic or tech must be dominate and that they can’t co-exist with some sort of balance of power between them. This is nonsense mages would CLEARLY have a rule in any war even with a high tech level, but unlike in the entirely artificial state of affairs in the current TSAB they wouldn’t be the ONLY players or possibly even the players with the most sway. I have no problem seeing how this would work as I envisioned something very much like this for the war on Usea stuff like aerial mages escorting troop carrying helicopters while fighter jets flew top cover higher up for instance. My own crack verse is even more absurd with stuff like mages in rocket propelled power armor fighting battlemechs and war droids, while transforming fighter jets duke it out in the sky, and legions of mecha and battleships contest orbit. (needless to say when some members of this culture are exposed to the TSABs “methods” or warfare they find them somewhat... quaint.)
Yes, this point is spawned of the age old 'conventional weaponry would destroy mages' debate. It's a well known fact that both mass-based weaponry and magic were used in the wars, which in my eyes pretty much makes the two equal.
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Old 2008-06-25, 02:44   Link #1810
Jimmy C
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Keroko View Post
As for where it had been hiding, inside the Relic is a good possibility.
If that's the case, that particular Device is gone, courtesy of Nanoha's Starlight Breaker. She'll be needing a new Device as a combat mage.

Quote:
And those 'decorative gems' on other Barrier Jackets are actually functional parts of the Barrier Jacket.
Though true, those gems aren't like the Devices mages use for casting attack spells.
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Old 2008-06-25, 02:44   Link #1811
Tk3997
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Just noticed this while continuing the troll backlog, putting requests for input in spoiler tags is a GREAT way to get it missed by the target when he's skimming the backlog by the way.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wild Goose View Post
Anyhow, a quick outline of things happening in Task Force Six (the following was written in spurts of 5 minutes here and there over the past week so it may seem disjointed): "Things in Task Force Six" Because TF6 is my attempt to write something happier and more cheerful compared to Alpha... The larger TF6 comprises of the Aces, the Forwards, and the Hammer Squad, a 5-man det from the OFM lead by Franz (Hammer Actual).
Is this including Keroko and Tesla or no?

Quote:
You know at this point I realise that I have no fucking clue what to do with Felix beyond investigating and verbal sparring with vita.
Well it's not like I write the plot for you I mean characterization tips are one thing, but I can't invent stuff for you to do with him... I can maybe give some idea seeds though with regards to how he'd interact and such.

Spoiler for Stuff he could do:


Quote:
And I guess you been watching NCIS...
Not religiously I catch it on TV when I can (No cash for teh DVDs) I also draw experience from you know going to college for a career in police work. My teachers are all ex or current cops and we've got guys that come to class in full uniform (LOADED GUN INCLUDED). If you want to learn about being a cop without actually being one you won't find a much better place. Hell I mean the building itself is labeled "Public Safety" !
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Old 2008-06-25, 03:06   Link #1812
Kha
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Keroko View Post
It does show that copying is not at all beyond possible.
Canon-tan must've felt that she needed to remind me that she still loves me?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Keroko View Post
Wow, yet another awesome Kha picture!

Though it slipped my mind... what is the difference between white hair/orange hair Kha?
The white hair is a symbol of his Alhazredian bloodline that was programmed into him by his mother's body. When activated, the person starts Linking larger amounts of Light, greatly increasing the effect of Light spells cast by the person, fortifies his body against the forces of Chaos and consequently turning all of his hair white.

Mother and child know not of the origins of this ability, but Canoness theorized that it could be due to Kia's energy source, for her biomechanical body is powered by a Relic-like crystal. As this then is a source of greed for Man, Kia was taught to hide this ability, and only use it when necessary. The risk of magical burnout increases the longer the crystal is maintained at a heightened state as well, so it would be wiser not to keep it running all the time.

Kia taught how to manage this blood power to Kha, and whenever he donned the mask, he uses this ability to harness the power of the Light to the fullest. It coincidentally created a "alter ego" look. He made no effort to broadcast his name, but that hair and his prominent display of crosses eventually earned him the moniker, The Cleric.

...taken from the Superhero Cookbook of Stan Lee. It started from me deciding to combine the Super Mahou archetype with the Harem Hero archetype. <.<

I know all that then raises questions about Kia's origins and such, but I haven't got time to delve into it properly...
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Old 2008-06-25, 03:30   Link #1813
Kyral
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kha View Post

But without further ado, another excellent artist mercurianangel has gracefully agreed to help out with the Codex, and here's another shot:
Spoiler for Kha in Knight's Garb:
Kha really is mobilizing all the great artists he can find.

Ah well... let's join in!

mercurianangel mercurianangel mercurianangel
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Old 2008-06-25, 03:38   Link #1814
Kha
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mercurianangel -fate- mercurianangel -fate-
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Old 2008-06-25, 04:07   Link #1815
Keroko
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jimmy C View Post
If that's the case, that particular Device is gone, courtesy of Nanoha's Starlight Breaker. She'll be needing a new Device as a combat mage.
True, but its recreation is not a stretch to imagine.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jimmy C View Post
Though true, those gems aren't like the Devices mages use for casting attack spells.
No, and those gems are usually on the shoulders, wrist end of the sleeves, and in some cases the boots. Name me one mage that had gems on their hands and not having it be a Device.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kha View Post
Canon-tan must've felt that she needed to remind me that she still loves me?
Keroko-kun: Admit it. You felt sorry for him.

Keroko-tan: *puffs cheeks and looks away*

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kha View Post
The white hair is a symbol of his Alhazredian bloodline that was programmed into him by his mother's body. When activated, the person starts Linking larger amounts of Light, greatly increasing the effect of Light spells cast by the person, fortifies his body against the forces of Chaos and consequently turning all of his hair white.

Mother and child know not of the origins of this ability, but Canoness theorized that it could be due to Kia's energy source, for her biomechanical body is powered by a Relic-like crystal. As this then is a source of greed for Man, Kia was taught to hide this ability, and only use it when necessary. The risk of magical burnout increases the longer the crystal is maintained at a heightened state as well, so it would be wiser not to keep it running all the time.

Kia taught how to manage this blood power to Kha, and whenever he donned the mask, he uses this ability to harness the power of the Light to the fullest. It coincidentally created a "alter ego" look. He made no effort to broadcast his name, but that hair and his prominent display of crosses eventually earned him the moniker, The Cleric.

...taken from the Superhero Cookbook of Stan Lee. It started from me deciding to combine the Super Mahou archetype with the Harem Hero archetype. <.<

I know all that then raises questions about Kia's origins and such, but I haven't got time to delve into it properly...
Ah yes, now I remember. Though this could be tweaked to be less Al Hazardian in origin, and more Belkan (optional, we know that both are possible).

The Belkan did biological altering to their bodies too, and since Kha is linked to Belkan lore, it could be possible that he is a descendant of the human weapons that were fielded in those wars.
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Old 2008-06-25, 04:39   Link #1816
Kha
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Yup, MARVEL Comics style (even though I kinda hate most of their work... ).
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Old 2008-06-25, 04:40   Link #1817
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Canon check the following, please.

Spoiler for Report:
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Old 2008-06-25, 05:03   Link #1818
Keroko
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Well, I don't see any contradictions so far, and concidering these are Lost Logia, their powers are pretty much justified.
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Old 2008-06-25, 05:15   Link #1819
Kha
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And smell like delicious endgame raid gear.

There's something vaguely familiar about that Sword... Maybe no one knows where it is because...

*glances in Saber's direction*

...no one can see it?
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Old 2008-06-25, 05:51   Link #1820
Keroko
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That's what happens when you sprinkle your ideas with references rather then having them cry out.
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